Nerf archers more pls

[_RXN_]

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[AluminumMonster]

First of all, game balance before realism. Just because you can jump and shoot IRL doesn't mean you should be able to do it ingame.

Secondly, that arrow would have no chance penetrating even the lightest mail. Not much draw strength there.

How about instead of having things retardedly OP like in Native, we change things and add things and make it all better? If you want to keep your 360 jumpshot then please go play native. I'll enjoy cRPG.

you say balance before realism, and then say why it wouldnt work from realism. i hope you have the common sense to realize that jumping makes no difference in the power of the shot or draw

[Ptolemy]

An arrow weighs the same as a throwing axe.

I don't want to live in this world anymore.

[Algarn]

Stupidest nerf ... and archers cannot hold their bows drawns more than 0.5 sec ...

[Gurnisson]

Stupidest nerf...

Yes, clearly, because endless kiting was never a problem. Oh, wait..

[Ptolemy]

Yes, clearly, because endless kiting was never a problem. Oh, wait..

There were better ways of stopping kiting - a better solution would have been to introduce a hard cap to WPF, say 150, which would mean that archers would have to have some points in melee. The only reason archers don't have points in melee is because if they do, their accuracy falls at longer range and if you can't shoot accurately at long range, you might as well be a thrower.

[Jarlek]

you say balance before realism, and then say why it wouldnt work from realism.

No shit Sherlock, guess why the "first of all" and "secondly" was for. 2 different arguments, 2 different reasons. Nothing stops me from telling me that realism shouldn't matter and yet STILL realism doesn't support what you want.

i hope you have the common sense to realize that jumping makes no difference in the power of the shot or draw

I hope (but sadly fear that you don't) you get that jumping while drawing wont make you be able to draw as far back as you could if you were standing. You don't draw a warbow with your arm, you use your whole body to brace yourself. Jumping and shooting is possible, but only on weak bows or if you don't pull the bow the whole way.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

There were better ways of stopping kiting - a better solution would have been to introduce a hard cap to WPF, say 150, which would mean that archers would have to have some points in melee. The only reason archers don't have points in melee is because if they do, their accuracy falls at longer range and if you can't shoot accurately at long range, you might as well be a thrower.

Horrible solution filled with holes.

[AluminumMonster]

No shit Sherlock, guess why the "first of all" and "secondly" was for. 2 different arguments, 2 different reasons. Nothing stops me from telling me that realism shouldn't matter and yet STILL realism doesn't support what you want.
I hope (but sadly fear that you don't) you get that jumping while drawing wont make you be able to draw as far back as you could if you were standing. You don't draw a warbow with your arm, you use your whole body to brace yourself. Jumping and shooting is possible, but only on weak bows or if you don't pull the bow the whole way.

you might want to clean the jizz stains off your monocle and watch the video again. clearly you can see he draws the bow the same from standing and while jumping(generating the same force). drawing while jumping with a warbow(rus/long bow) sounds reasonable, but horn bow and below is a different story.

[Ptolemy]

Horrible solution filled with holes.

I agree that there's holes with the theory - it's unpolished.

But they're smaller holes than having two arrows weigh the same as a throwing lance. Or one arrow weighing the same as a throwing axe.

[Joker86]

I think one of the reasons to become archer for many players is the average skill level in melee in the cRPG community. I don't say it's the driving factor for all archers, but I claim it's a good percentage. And even the "I only went archery because I enjoy it more, I know how to fight in melee"-argumentation could come from the fact that you don't have so much to deal with the reactions of your enemy while fighting him, as you have to in melee. I only write this to prevent some reactions, claiming that archers are not afraid of anything. It's not exclusively about being afraid.

What I want to say with the whole "no melee plz"-archer-attitude is, that raising the melee capabilities will not make archers stand and fight, if they don't want melee at all. They could have 10PS, 180WPF in melee, and some of them would still prefer to run, because they don't feel as entertained or even as "safe" in melee as in ranged.

I don't like the whole "melee archer" argumentation, and this is also where I disagree with Teeth, who usually is a very smart and reasonble guy.

[Teeth]

What I want to say with the whole "no melee plz"-archer-attitude is, that raising the melee capabilities will not make archers stand and fight, if they don't want melee at all. They could have 10PS, 180WPF in melee, and some of them would still prefer to run, because they don't feel as entertained or even as "safe" in melee as in ranged.

I don't like the whole "melee archer" argumentation, and this is also where I disagree with Teeth, who usually is a very smart and reasonble guy.

That is why raising melee capabilities is only half of the 'melee archer' argumentation, at least mine, the other half is mechanically preventing them from kiting.

My long time idea of the best way of doing this is preventing archers from reaching sprint speed with their bow out, which wouldn't affect 'strafe and shoot' and cav dodging maneuvers at all, unlike the heavy arrows that were implemented a while a go.
http://forum.meleegaming.com/suggestions-corner/how-to-make-archery-more-fun-for-everyone/msg588659/#msg588659

It is a less hard fix for kiting though, and seeing as some archers now are as willing to go as far as dropping their bow, kiting a circle around a building and then picking up their bow to shoot, it just makes me think we should ban a few archer turds so we can unnerf the others.

drawing/shooting while jumping... possible and accurate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2zGnxeSbb3g#t=240s

That shot wouldn't even penetrate my butt. Sure you can get jumpshooting back if it does one and a half damage.

The way it works right now, when drawing the bow, jump is disabled. Doesn't work. The way it SHOULD work is when you are drawing and press jump, it should auto-cancel the draw, not keep you pinned to the ground. 

Press RMB and then jump?

[Jarlek]

you might want to clean the jizz stains off your monocle and watch the video again. clearly you can see he draws the bow the same from standing and while jumping(generating the same force). drawing while jumping with a warbow(rus/long bow) sounds reasonable, but horn bow and below is a different story.

Since you don't get it when I say it.

That shot wouldn't even penetrate my butt. Sure you can get jumpshooting back if it does one and a half damage.

PS: By warbow, I meant a bow made for war. Aka, all the bows we have in this game apart from shortbow and bow.

[Joker86]

That is why raising melee capabilities is only half of the 'melee archer' argumentation, at least mine, the other half is mechanically preventing them from kiting.

My long time idea of the best way of doing this is preventing archers from reaching sprint speed with their bow out, which wouldn't affect 'strafe and shoot' and cav dodging maneuvers at all, unlike the heavy arrows that were implemented a while a go.
http://forum.meleegaming.com/suggestions-corner/how-to-make-archery-more-fun-for-everyone/msg588659/#msg588659

It is a less hard fix for kiting though, and seeing as some archers now are as willing to go as far as dropping their bow, kiting a circle around a building and then picking up their bow to shoot, it just makes me think we should ban a few archer turds so we can unnerf the others.

I actually do agree with the sprinting part of your suggestion. For the first part there is yet another other reason I can't agree with it:

I don't want the classes to move closer to each other, gameplay wise. I think variety and dependancies suffer if archers turn to some kind of hybrids. If anything, I am rather for buffing the ranged capabilities or archers and nerf their melee capabilities as far as possible. That way you have classes which excel in their respective disciplines (= fun because you are really good in what you are doing), the variety in gameplay is increased (instead of the only question whether you are shooting or not during the phase of approach), and finally dependancies are increased, which means infantry needs to rely more on covering fire from their own archers, and archers need to be protected by infantry. It's to increase teamplay... *cough* *by force* *cough*

But again, it's a matter of taste. Usually you enjoy my blanko-"+1", Teeth. Just not considering this one topic. 

[Freeon1z]

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