Author Topic: Nerf archers more pls  (Read 4819 times)

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Offline CrazyCracka420

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Re: Nerf archers more pls
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2013, 03:47:24 pm »
0

Yeah, I agree. Devs also should remove attacking while jumping for infantry, because this also has no sense at all. If you want to attack, stay on the ground, don't jump like a monkey.
You can't put proper force to strike when you are not standing on the ground, so they should remove this sillyness from the game!

Or at least make it significantly weaker when you jump and swing a weapon
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Offline Ptolemy

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Re: Nerf archers more pls
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2013, 05:00:24 pm »
+1
Fuck, even on my HA I still have no problem dodging enemy cav, and that's with 3 stacks of bodkin and 0 athletics. It's not archers being unable to dodge cav: It's you failing at dodging cav.

3 stacks of bodkins and 0 athletics - so with a minimum of 32 equipment weight and 0 athletics you can still dodge cavalry with no problem? Horseshit.

Offline Penitent

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Re: Nerf archers more pls
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2013, 05:09:59 pm »
0
the reason why archers aren't as much as a problem an siege is 2 fold:

1.  There is more cover (walls, indoor fighting) so a team full of archers is actually at a disadvantage.

2. When people are killed by ranged its not as frustrating because you respawn.

I don't think its as much due to the objective-based gameplay, honestly.

Offline Ronin

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Re: Nerf archers more pls
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2013, 05:17:08 pm »
+3
It's because archers are not as effective as infantry at killing. When it's a deathmatch, it all matters how fast you kill enemies to capture/protect the flag.
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Offline Zlisch_The_Butcher

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Re: Nerf archers more pls
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2013, 05:43:21 pm »
0
The weight increase for bows and arrows makes it damn near impossible to dodge a horse - especially if it's an Arabian. This means that not only can a shielder chase and usually catch my archer with 7 ath, a couching horseman will be almost guaranteed to kill me. Makes having athletics on an archer almost pointless now - might as well switch to 10PD longbowmen, since the arrows do so little damage and you normally can't out-run a pursuer anyway.

Of course, if you do that, your WPF is so low that you can't hit where you're aiming regardless and woe is you if you don't have +3 bodkins.
And that arabian goes down in one hit if it's riding towards you...
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Offline CrazyCracka420

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Re: Nerf archers more pls
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2013, 06:55:17 pm »
-1
Why you neg my post zilsch

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Offline MrShine

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Re: Nerf archers more pls
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2013, 07:07:06 pm »
+3
I knew exactly what you meant. Both dawing and shooting while jumping is retarded as an archer, same for crossbowmen.

Before, you could just keep on drawing and shooting with cav charging you, no problems at all. It was ridiculous. Now, you have to dodge when someone charges you and THEN start drawing. Much more balanced and fair.

Look, it's not hard to dodge cavalry. Just don't DRAW when you try to dodge them. Ptolemy says he can't dodge a horseman with 7 athletics and bow+arrows. Bullshit. If I can dodge cav with 20 armour weight and 17 equipment weight (shield, 2 jarids and a sword) with only 6 athletics, then you should have no problem with 7 athletics. Fuck, even on my HA I still have no problem dodging enemy cav, and that's with 3 stacks of bodkin and 0 athletics. It's not archers being unable to dodge cav: It's you failing at dodging cav.

Shooting while jumping, I'll concede that one.  Jumping while drawing though (thus cancelling the draw) should be allowed.  Right now the place that archers are at their most vulnerable to cav has been made even more vulnerable, which IMO is overkill.

No offense intended, but your last paragraph makes it clear to me you've never (or rarely) played a foot-archer.  Archers are in a constant state of draw & aim arrow -> fire arrow -> check surroundings -> repeat.  Even for the most aware archers who check their surroundings frequently there are going to be times they are standing still & vulnerable because they are focusing on aiming a shot.   Depending on what stage of the shot the cav catches them, they will have a limited window to try and get out of the way, usually starting from a standing position.  Oftentimes there isn't even enough time to switch to a melee weapon and downblock, so you're only hope of avoiding death is to get out of the way.  In the past with archers being able to jump while drawing & being lighter & more agile you'd still have a chance at getting out of the way from incoming cav if you were paying attention.  With recent archer weight & mobility changes though there's very little you can do if you're caught mid-draw other than die or hope the cav is bad.
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Offline Rumblood

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Re: Nerf archers more pls
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2013, 10:40:08 pm »
+3
i read only 1st post, all i got to say is quit crying archers, i cant describe how retarded is ability to shoot while jumping, crawl back to matrix nerds. I have archer alt and i have never even made jumpshot when that was possible, devs did right thing to remove it, you can use legit 1h o slot weapons now, so it should be enough to make you stop crying.

Way to completely miss the point nerd.

The way it works right now, when drawing the bow, jump is disabled. Doesn't work. The way it SHOULD work is when you are drawing and press jump, it should auto-cancel the draw, not keep you pinned to the ground.  :idea:
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Offline CrazyCracka420

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Re: Nerf archers more pls
« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2013, 10:43:48 pm »
-1
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Offline Jarlek

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Re: Nerf archers more pls
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2013, 11:52:44 pm »
+1
Shooting while jumping, I'll concede that one.  Jumping while drawing though (thus cancelling the draw) should be allowed.  Right now the place that archers are at their most vulnerable to cav has been made even more vulnerable, which IMO is overkill.
Totally agree with this. You should still be able to jump when you press the jump button, but it should STOP the drawing/aiming of the bow/crossbow. But the people here have been bitching about not being able to draw/aim while jumping, which is retarded.

No offense intended, but your last paragraph makes it clear to me you've never (or rarely) played a foot-archer.  Archers are in a constant state of draw & aim arrow -> fire arrow -> check surroundings -> repeat.  Even for the most aware archers who check their surroundings frequently there are going to be times they are standing still & vulnerable because they are focusing on aiming a shot.   Depending on what stage of the shot the cav catches them, they will have a limited window to try and get out of the way, usually starting from a standing position.  Oftentimes there isn't even enough time to switch to a melee weapon and downblock, so you're only hope of avoiding death is to get out of the way.  In the past with archers being able to jump while drawing & being lighter & more agile you'd still have a chance at getting out of the way from incoming cav if you were paying attention.  With recent archer weight & mobility changes though there's very little you can do if you're caught mid-draw other than die or hope the cav is bad.
First of all. Right click cancels the shot and let's you jump or whatever. That's what I do and it works, even when caught mid-draw.

Secondly: after my main, my HA and archer alts is what I play the most of.

The archer is mainly on siege though, but I still don't have problems with cav when I use her in battle. Same goes for when my HA (which I never use in siege) gets dehorsed. No problem dodging cav then, unless there's a lot of them. Sticking with your team, standing near the spikes, etc., should be more than enough to stop most cav from reaching you.

Look, if you get caught mid-draw by a horseman then you are kind of supposed to be screwed. If you didn't manage to see them ride all the way too you or they came around a corner or whatnot, then why should they not get to hit you? It's not like you don't have the advantage at range. A horseman (or ninja or shielder or ANYTHING) that takes you by surprise so that you don't even have time to switch to melee is just playing their class right or you not being aware enough. If you get caught in melee range with your bow out it's your own fault, not the games. You should never be able to just go "nope.avi" and continue shooting while people charge you.
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Offline Kafein

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Re: Nerf archers more pls
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2013, 08:19:57 pm »
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Way to completely miss the point nerd.

The way it works right now, when drawing the bow, jump is disabled. Doesn't work. The way it SHOULD work is when you are drawing and press jump, it should auto-cancel the draw, not keep you pinned to the ground.  :idea:

+1 this.

There's really no reason anyone using x weapon can't jump at all.

Also this :

Look, if you get caught mid-draw by a horseman then you are kind of supposed to be screwed. If you didn't manage to see them ride all the way too you or they came around a corner or whatnot, then why should they not get to hit you? It's not like you don't have the advantage at range. A horseman (or ninja or shielder or ANYTHING) that takes you by surprise so that you don't even have time to switch to melee is just playing their class right or you not being aware enough. If you get caught in melee range with your bow out it's your own fault, not the games. You should never be able to just go "nope.avi" and continue shooting while people charge you.

Despite what some may seem to think, archers are not supposed to be impervious to all melee classes.

Offline MrShine

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Re: Nerf archers more pls
« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2013, 10:04:54 pm »
+3
Look, if you get caught mid-draw by a horseman then you are kind of supposed to be screwed. If you didn't manage to see them ride all the way too you or they came around a corner or whatnot, then why should they not get to hit you? It's not like you don't have the advantage at range. A horseman (or ninja or shielder or ANYTHING) that takes you by surprise so that you don't even have time to switch to melee is just playing their class right or you not being aware enough. If you get caught in melee range with your bow out it's your own fault, not the games. You should never be able to just go "nope.avi" and continue shooting while people charge you.

My point is the radius around an archer where they become 'cav food' is bigger than it should be.  Every split second of clunkiness an archer gains due to weight/inability to jump while drawing is that much further away cav can be and still catch an archer mid-draw.  It's a delicate balance that has been overlooked somewhat.

I'm not arguing that archers should be able to rambo, but they also shouldn't have to be scared little rabbits who hide in their holes at the first sign of possible danger.  Right now I think it's too easy to skewer archers as cav, especially when you consider archers are often 1-shot by cav.
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Offline bagge

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Re: Nerf archers more pls
« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2013, 11:51:35 pm »
+2
        Im begging you for this as archer . Pls nerf archers more . Even you can remove bows and arrows because those aren't useful anymore . I rather use pillow instead of bow . And give us marshmellows instead of arrows !

lol my old friend. Deal with it
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Offline AluminumMonster

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Re: Nerf archers more pls
« Reply #28 on: May 03, 2013, 12:29:07 am »
-1
I knew exactly what you meant. Both dawing and shooting while jumping is retarded as an archer, same for crossbowmen.

Before, you could just keep on drawing and shooting with cav charging you, no problems at all. It was ridiculous. Now, you have to dodge when someone charges you and THEN start drawing. Much more balanced and fair.

Look, it's not hard to dodge cavalry. Just don't DRAW when you try to dodge them. Ptolemy says he can't dodge a horseman with 7 athletics and bow+arrows. Bullshit. If I can dodge cav with 20 armour weight and 17 equipment weight (shield, 2 jarids and a sword) with only 6 athletics, then you should have no problem with 7 athletics. Fuck, even on my HA I still have no problem dodging enemy cav, and that's with 3 stacks of bodkin and 0 athletics. It's not archers being unable to dodge cav: It's you failing at dodging cav.

drawing/shooting while jumping... possible and accurate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2zGnxeSbb3g#t=240s

how about instead of nerfing everything, you just re-implement it the way it use to be. im pretty sure every1 would agree this game was more fun about 2 years ago, before you took this mod to a cold and dank basement and raped it with no mercy
« Last Edit: May 03, 2013, 08:28:25 am by AluminumMonster »
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Offline Jarlek

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Re: Nerf archers more pls
« Reply #29 on: May 03, 2013, 12:27:28 pm »
-1
drawing/shooting while jumping... possible and accurate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=2zGnxeSbb3g#t=240s

how about instead of nerfing everything, you just re-implement it the way it use to be. im pretty sure every1 would agree this game was more fun about 2 years ago, before you took this mod to a cold and dank basement and raped it with no mercy
First of all, game balance before realism. Just because you can jump and shoot IRL doesn't mean you should be able to do it ingame.

Secondly, that arrow would have no chance penetrating even the lightest mail. Not much draw strength there.

How about instead of having things retardedly OP like in Native, we change things and add things and make it all better? If you want to keep your 360 jumpshot then please go play native. I'll enjoy cRPG.
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