Who cares about score there ? except kids ? :mrgreen:
Proximity points might be not perfect but being close to the fight raises the risk to die significantly, doesn't it?
Standing on a hill, pewpewing all the time is pretty risk free compared to being in the middle of the melee clusterfuck.
Point system is fine. Ranged shouldn't get as many points as melee... imo.
Besides, where is the valour in attacking the enemy from afar?
currently throwing gets you 1-2 points per hit and there is not much ammo, but TH's get you -8 points which is ridiculous
Proximity points might be not perfect but being close to the fight raises the risk to die significantly, doesn't it?The lower risk is already compensated by light armor/low melee capabilities.
Standing on a hill, pewpewing all the time is pretty risk free compared to being in the middle of the melee clusterfuck.
Point system is fine. Ranged shouldn't get as many points as melee... imo.
Besides, where is the valour in attacking the enemy from afar?
The lower risk is already compensated by light armor/low melee capabilities.
It's perfectly possible to make builds with both decent melee and ranged capabilities, it's just that most people prefer not to. I have an 18/24 archer for example, but I've also tried 18/18 and 18/21 with melee capabilities. They all work quite well with a different niche for each build.
The whole being in range bonus encourages ppl to zerg (some for of team work i suppose), but at the same time punishes classes which by their very nature should not bunch up.
For the objective of team victory, bunching up in the first minute is MUCH more important than being a loner.
The team with 30 guys smashing into the other team's 15 bunched guys is going to smash through them, and that result will snowball the whole round and usually the next 1-2 minutes will just be cleaning up scattered people.
So it stands to reason that the system rewards people for actions that encourage strong grouping play for the initial confrontation between infantry formations which settles the outcome of the round 80-90% of the time.
Proximity points might be not perfect but being close to the fight raises the risk to die significantly, doesn't it?
Standing on a hill, pewpewing all the time is pretty risk free compared to being in the middle of the melee clusterfuck.
Point system is fine. Ranged shouldn't get as many points as melee... imo.
Besides, where is the valour in attacking the enemy from afar?
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For this kind of play style they simply don't deserve a reward.
It's just that some classes are enjoyable only for the guy playing it, and thoroughly annoying and lame for everyone else. Surely discouraging people from playing those classes is justified for the sake of gameplay?
Well if you are using that argument, we should also discourage people from playing:
plate crutchers
str crutchers
agi s-key crutchers
glaive crutchers
cav crutchers
1h cav crutchers
ranged cav crutchers
loom crutchers
crushthrough crutchers
throwing crutchers
2h hiltslash spam crutchers
pike wiggle crutchers
hoplite shield crutchers
steel pick crutchers
13 shield skill crutchers
..afterall, I imagine those classes get more enjoyment out of killing people than the people they kill do.
Well if you are using that argument, we should also discourage people from playing:
plate crutchers
str crutchers
agi s-key crutchers
glaive crutchers
cav crutchers
1h cav crutchers
ranged cav crutchers
loom crutchers
crushthrough crutchers
throwing crutchers
2h hiltslash spam crutchers
pike wiggle crutchers
hoplite shield crutchers
steel pick crutchers
13 shield skill crutchers
..afterall, I imagine those classes get more enjoyment out of killing people than the people they kill do.
Except when it comes to melee, your opponent may be a total dick with double your stats, you can play and potentially win or at least defend yourself.
not if you're an archer, a 27 strength player in platemail is not going to be enjoyable fighting melee vs melee. why should the guy playing melee be the only one who "gets to have fun"? And I think it's a bad argument to begin with (whether someone is having fun or getting gayed shouldn't even be part of the discussion). Just because someone takes advantage of a weakness of my class or playstyle, doesn't mean that I'm not enjoying the game. I try to not let it happen next round.
Please read what the person you're responding to has written before posting.
not if you're an archer, a 27 strength player in platemail is not going to be enjoyable fighting melee vs melee.
Just because someone takes advantage of a weakness of my class or playstyle, doesn't mean that I'm not enjoying the game.
I try to not let it happen next round.
My understanding was that valor was supposed to reward the players who have the greatest impact on their team's chances of winning. If that's truly the goal, then it has failed.
Proximity points are garbage IMO... it rewards melee classes disproportionately, and oftentimes it rewards people for doing something wrong (bunching up too much & interfering with teammate swings).
There are a lot of good ideas for how to fix this (I made a suggestion thread about it (http://forum.meleegaming.com/game-balance-discussion/let%27s-expand-on-the-new-point-system!/msg573045/) ) but I doubt devs are going to spend the time to improve it at this point.
thing more than your physical presence (which counts for something, but points received are disproportionately high).
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For this kind of play style they simply don't deserve a reward.
Oww, and best suggestion yet: Simply remove valour - it was stupid from the start.
Ninja backstabbing style does? :D
And now ranged scoring is decreased!?I still don't know why you are saying this, please elaborate.
I still don't know why you are saying this, please elaborate.
I agree that when 2 melee blobs clash the blob that survives is often the winning team, but that doesn't mean everyone in the blob contributed to the fight. My point is you can sit there and hold your shield up within a blob and you'll rake in points while contributing nothing more than your physical presence (which counts for something, but points received are disproportionately high).
I should also note that archers & other ranged could have a very large (and sometimes critical) part in determining the result of the melee blob battle with their support fire, but they don't receive as many points. Ironically it's their allies in the melee blob who gain the proximity points from the damage the ranged fire is inflicting.
The myth of a shielder getting valour by just holding right key in a block is really overdone, I would hope this is because us shielders ourselves make an ironic joke out of it to spread it cuz surely people aren't coming to this conclusion through their own careful gameplay analysis??? You might collect some points doing that but won't get enough for valour. Go spectate the better shielders (or melee players in general) who do get valor consistently. At the beginning they are usually in the thick of the fight attacking very aggressively and chopping down people left and right. When I encounter a guy like this I usually go out of my way to check him cuz I know if I leave him alone he'll rip through my teammates, he's my #1 concern not the guy holding up a shield, and not the archer 50 feet away on the side.
And good archers can be very helpful, but no way is their damage per second anywhere equivalent to a melee STR build swinging a big weapon every 2 seconds at least in that critical opening sequence with targets constantly in reach.
Nothing wrong with ganging up (aka teamwork), it should be rewarded since it is the best way to kill players quickly and efficiently (especially really badass duelists) assuming you are not teamwounding at the same time.I agree, the problem is archers don't get rewarded for their teamwork since they aren't close enough to benefit from shared damage on a target :)
I agree, the problem is archers don't get rewarded for their teamwork since they aren't close enough to benefit from shared damage on a target :)
It's just that some classes are enjoyable only for the guy playing it, and thoroughly annoying and lame for everyone else. Surely discouraging people from playing those classes is justified for the sake of gameplay?
Ninja backstabbing style does? :DHow often do you actually see a Ninja getting valour, huh?
How often do you actually see a Ninja getting valour, huh?
Nearly never when we actually try to backstab (except Khorin when he makes it to the archer ranks and chops them all down :P )
When you see a Ninja getting valour, he sticked to the mob like a normal melee guy.
Not to mention that we don't use heavy armour (like you), we don't use a long and high damage axe (like you) and we don't play a strength oriented build (like you).
So, please, if you wanna troll us, try harder and make it at least look a bit smart next time. Now you're just looking stupid in my book.
as for this thread. it's full of hippy bullshit "let them play the way they want, the diveristy is what makes this mod, crap crap..." probably by the people that do it themselves and just try to justify their fggotry in this way.
How often do you actually see a Ninja getting valour, huh?
Nearly never when we actually try to backstab (except Khorin when he makes it to the archer ranks and chops them all down :P )
When you see a Ninja getting valour, he sticked to the mob like a normal melee guy.
Not to mention that we don't use heavy armour (like you), we don't use a long and high damage axe (like you) and we don't play a strength oriented build (like you).
So, please, if you wanna troll us, try harder and make it at least look a bit smart next time. Now you're just looking stupid in my book.
Molly you are giving this little turd way to much attention, much more than he deserves so i suggest just ignoring him, will make you look wiser.
as for this thread. it's full of hippy bullshit "let them play the way they want, the diveristy is what makes this mod, crap crap..." probably by the people that do it themselves and just try to justify their fggotry in this way.
fuck it give every archer auto valor, i don't give a crap anyways.
neveralways take the shot