Ranged scoring

[MrShine]

It's just that some classes are enjoyable only for the guy playing it, and thoroughly annoying and lame for everyone else. Surely discouraging people from playing those classes is justified for the sake of gameplay?

Well if you are using that argument, we should also discourage people from playing:

plate crutchers
str crutchers
agi s-key crutchers
glaive crutchers
cav crutchers
1h cav crutchers
ranged cav crutchers
loom crutchers
crushthrough crutchers
throwing crutchers
2h hiltslash spam crutchers
pike wiggle crutchers
hoplite shield crutchers
steel pick crutchers
13 shield skill crutchers


..afterall, I imagine those classes get more enjoyment out of killing people than the people they kill do.

[CrazyCracka420]

Well if you are using that argument, we should also discourage people from playing:

plate crutchers
str crutchers
agi s-key crutchers
glaive crutchers
cav crutchers
1h cav crutchers
ranged cav crutchers
loom crutchers
crushthrough crutchers
throwing crutchers
2h hiltslash spam crutchers
pike wiggle crutchers
hoplite shield crutchers
steel pick crutchers
13 shield skill crutchers


..afterall, I imagine those classes get more enjoyment out of killing people than the people they kill do.

Exactly what I was thinking. 

One class or another (that is a counter to your class, or can take advantage of one of your weaknesses) could always be argued is "not enjoyable" to the person getting killed.  I imagine archers don't enjoy 2h'ers getting in melee range and crushing their heads in.

Ridiculous seeing people bitch over and over again about "someone's ruining my fun" just because the other person is playing the game.  Everyone tries to minimize exposure to their weaknesses, and a melee infantry player is always going to be weak to ranged.  Sorry if that's not enjoyable to you, but that's your problem, not the guy playing an archer.

[Kafein]

Well if you are using that argument, we should also discourage people from playing:

plate crutchers
str crutchers
agi s-key crutchers
glaive crutchers
cav crutchers
1h cav crutchers
ranged cav crutchers
loom crutchers
crushthrough crutchers
throwing crutchers
2h hiltslash spam crutchers
pike wiggle crutchers
hoplite shield crutchers
steel pick crutchers
13 shield skill crutchers


..afterall, I imagine those classes get more enjoyment out of killing people than the people they kill do.

Except when it comes to melee, your opponent may be a total dick with double your stats, you can play and potentially win or at least defend yourself.

[CrazyCracka420]

Except when it comes to melee, your opponent may be a total dick with double your stats, you can play and potentially win or at least defend yourself.

not if you're an archer, a 27 strength player in platemail is not going to be enjoyable fighting melee vs melee.  why should the guy playing melee be the only one who "gets to have fun"?  And I think it's a bad argument to begin with (whether someone is having fun or getting gayed shouldn't even be part of the discussion).  Just because someone takes advantage of a weakness of my class or playstyle, doesn't mean that I'm not enjoying the game.  I try to not let it happen next round.

[Dezilagel]

not if you're an archer, a 27 strength player in platemail is not going to be enjoyable fighting melee vs melee.  why should the guy playing melee be the only one who "gets to have fun"?  And I think it's a bad argument to begin with (whether someone is having fun or getting gayed shouldn't even be part of the discussion).  Just because someone takes advantage of a weakness of my class or playstyle, doesn't mean that I'm not enjoying the game.  I try to not let it happen next round.

Please read what the person you're responding to has written before posting.

[Tonyukuk]

Please read what the person you're responding to has written before posting.

traitor

[Kafein]

not if you're an archer, a 27 strength player in platemail is not going to be enjoyable fighting melee vs melee.

That is precisely where you are wrong.

Some people may not enjoy the melee gameplay (in which case the only reason they are here is to shoot at defenseless targets, great individuals), but no matter whether you like it or not, you can influence the outcome of a melee combat. When someone is shooting at you, it's 5% dodging and 95% luck. In other words, your own power over the outcome of that is orders of magnitude lower.

Just because someone takes advantage of a weakness of my class or playstyle, doesn't mean that I'm not enjoying the game.

It's not about class advantages or disadvantages. As a 1h/shield/thrower, archers are and xbow are a pain. As a 1h/lance cav, they are obnoxious. Yet the general consensus seems to be that shielders and cav are decent counters to ranged.

Conversely, defending myself with just a crappy 1h sidearm against a behemoth that surprised me as archer or xbowman is quite fun, sometimes even more than a simple melee fight because enemies don't take you seriously.

I try to not let it happen next round.

Except with ranged you are not given the choice. People will shoot at you unless you are being useless in a map corner.

[Turboflex]

My understanding was that valor was supposed to reward the players who have the greatest impact on their team's chances of winning.  If that's truly the goal, then it has failed. 

Proximity points are garbage IMO... it rewards melee classes disproportionately, and oftentimes it rewards people for doing something wrong (bunching up too much & interfering with teammate swings).

There are a lot of good ideas for how to fix this (I made a suggestion thread about it ) but I doubt devs are going to spend the time to improve it at this point.

But the players with the greatest impact ARE melee players fighting well in formation at the beginning. In the majority of rounds if your team wins the initial heavy infantry clash decisively they have the round wrapped up most of the time. So it makes perfect sense these same players who fight exceptionally well get valor. 

If the round is in the minority and isn't settled decisively by the initial heavy infantry clash, cuz it is a draw or the scattered team has some outlier heroes who perform well, then they have a chance to claim valour over the next 4 minutes and in this case you do see archers/throwers or HA/HX do it.

[bruce]

What melee infantry sticking together does determines 75% of round outcome. It is fair.

Melee players sticking together instead of playing solo heroics is also good gameplay, and should be better rewarded as such.

[MrShine]

I agree that when 2 melee blobs clash the blob that survives is often the winning team, but that doesn't mean everyone in the blob contributed to the fight.  My point is you can sit there and hold your shield up within a blob and you'll rake in points while contributing nothing more than your physical presence (which counts for something, but points received are disproportionately high). 

I should also note that archers & other ranged could have a very large (and sometimes critical) part in determining the result of the melee blob battle with their support fire, but they don't receive as many points.  Ironically it's their allies in the melee blob who gain the proximity points from the damage the ranged fire is inflicting.

[Juhanius]

Just wondering what is the logic all this ranged nerfing. Last couple patches there has been some stupid flip flopping with ranged classes. First you give jump shoot back and next patch you removed it. And now ranged scoring is decreased!? I feel like development team is just rubbingin it in, laughing those who still dare to play ranged.

I personally would like to see "score radius" (or what hell it is called) removed. This game is lot about tactics, often it does not look like it but trust me it plays great deal where you are positioned in battlefield. For that reason I don´t like "score radius" because it robs your points if playing ranged mounted/foot or even stealthy ninjas.

I think best scoring system would state how many kills and how much damage you are dealing. This would remove all that radius foolery and would also give some insight how to improve you character damage wise. And best of all it would not give you a disadvantage if you are dealing damage from long a distances.

Ps. for all typos in this rant blame me being mad as hell and boozing.



 

[NejStark]

thing more than your physical presence (which counts for something, but points received are disproportionately high). 

I made a 1h inf STF character the other week and did that as a test to see how much I'd get. Ended up in the top ten players, did nothing, died.

People 20 space below me fighting like champs.

[tuttiritari]

(click to show/hide)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

For this kind of play style they simply don't deserve a reward.


Oww, and best suggestion yet: Simply remove valour - it was stupid from the start.

Ninja backstabbing style does?

[Juhanius]

Ninja backstabbing style does?

Dude that is not how ranged usually plays you cant get enough dmg dealt from long distances and accuracy is just bad. This is just smart playing using map terrain to get tactical advantage. I would do the same especially stalemate situations like that.

[Teeth]

And now ranged scoring is decreased!?

I still don't know why you are saying this, please elaborate.