So what was your reason for invading us?
So what was your reason for invading us?Turbo, I love you. Not all of our diplomatic interactions were guided by you, and me. Diggles is an asshole, blah blah. I like the whole Raven thing. Maybe we can work something out. Raven being new and all. Kedelke was mine at first, and the tax exemptions were not respected for me. If FCC doesn't take it. I'm sure you'll remain independent, and not have to answer to FCC, or Tkov. Why am I even saying this. of course you will. Anyways, anyone who matters has my steam, If I don't matter you can get Sittingbulls steam from me, or the faction hall. I respect you guys. I just am not willing to bend over for a clan three times our size to make a deal.
You can do what you want, but get ready to deal with the consequences, and don't come here posting these embarrassing sob story excuses, or complaining about FCC when you are clearly operating in total coordination with Hospitaller's war campaign against Fimbulvetr and FCC.
I declare war on LUK! You are banished from my fief and if you come here you will be forced to fuck the messenger war goats!Arys, withdraw that statement at once or I'm declaring war on you, asking anyone to fuck with a goat is an act worthy of death sentencing.
I could forget about a funny post, and do this. You'll have to talk to Bull though. I'm just the angry (slightly drunk) reactionary.(click to show/hide)
I love how anyone not allied with FCC or Fimblah is by default working for us, but that is only in the eyes of those in FCC or Fimblah so I wouldn't hold too much on that statement. Truth is FCC will attack anyone that is not "Helping" them dominate the NA map, which is fine as the lines are clear with who mercs for who, aside from some neutral factions but even then you can get the gist of who they favour.
Its side 1 Vs side 2 and everyone is fair game. FCC wanted to come off like a responsible parent refereeing a school yard fight claiming fairness with the smaller factions, but instead ended up shanking those regardless of size. At least you can respect Tkov as they are blunt about their intentions and come off as warriors. FCC is like a nerdy geek behind a desk with his finger on the *Send nuke* button yelling "Come at me bro!" while puffing his inhaler and yelling at his mom to bring him a sandwich.
I love how anyone not allied with FCC or Fimblah is by default working for us, but that is only in the eyes of those in FCC or Fimblah so I wouldn't hold too much on that statement. Truth is FCC will attack anyone that is not "Helping" them dominate the NA map, which is fine as the lines are clear with who mercs for who, aside from some neutral factions but even then you can get the gist of who they favour.You're right Aztek, I think we can all agree you summed up FCC pretty well.
Its side 1 Vs side 2 and everyone is fair game. FCC wanted to come off like a responsible parent refereeing a school yard fight claiming fairness with the smaller factions, but instead ended up shanking those regardless of size. At least you can respect Tkov as they are blunt about their intentions and come off as warriors. FCC is like a nerdy geek behind a desk with his finger on the *Send nuke* button yelling "Come at me bro!" while puffing his inhaler and yelling at his mom to bring him a sandwich.
Sorry I did not post a story. I did not know we were attacking you till I saw this thread.
No disrespect intended but likely the rest of the crew figured you were at war with us with the attack on fumble since it was helping hosp goals for the area. Combine that with exclusive signing against us in every fight it is an easy conclusion to make.
If they were wrong and you all would be willing to have a chat about things we can certainly do that and see about mending fences
I love how anyone not allied with FCC or Fimblah is by default working for us, but that is only in the eyes of those in FCC or Fimblah so I wouldn't hold too much on that statement. Truth is FCC will attack anyone that is not "Helping" them dominate the NA map, which is fine as the lines are clear with who mercs for who, aside from some neutral factions but even then you can get the gist of who they favour.
Its side 1 Vs side 2 and everyone is fair game. FCC wanted to come off like a responsible parent refereeing a school yard fight claiming fairness with the smaller factions, but instead ended up shanking those regardless of size. At least you can respect Tkov as they are blunt about their intentions and come off as warriors. FCC is like a nerdy geek behind a desk with his finger on the *Send nuke* button yelling "Come at me bro!" while puffing his inhaler and yelling at his mom to bring him a sandwich.
Because if you don't attack Hospitaller, you are clearly working with them. Seriously I hate this mentality in Strat.
As surprising as it may be we are not operating "in total coordination" with Hospitaller. They are not telling us what to do nor are we telling them what to do. Also, we were never at war with FCC. If we were, we would have hit the three armies heading past Kedelke (I assume you notice how we didn't?).
As far as paying me for the fief. I never received any payment for that. This may have been a miscommunication. Diggles was a bit of a dick. He may have led you to think something else. We attacked Kedelke, and haven't moved against you since. "get ready to deal with the consequences" -Turbo. Mighty big words when you have FCC buffing your troop counts in all your fiefs. As well as attacking us for you. I'm betting they didn't give you gear though. That would be too much. Maybe just the gold to buy gear? Either way This was a post for FCC to rectify not posting a long funny thread about how they justify going to war with us. They may do so now. All other concerns may be directed to me in steam,(I know you have it) or TS. Memorialmark.com
So you accidently attacked Kedelke right after Hospi took over Zagush and Tash Kulun? it was just a coincidence?
You were getting attacked by three bigger factions and the numbers were stacked against you. At the time it seemed like the best move, TKoV was held up in the desert with Occitan and FCC was expected to be preoccupied with Hospitaller. If we wanted to expand our territory, you were the easiest person to take it from (and closest to our original territories) with the littlest of repercussions and losses at the time. You can sit on your high horse all you want but I am sure that if FCC and TKoV had gone to war with Hospitaller you would jump right on that train and take as much as you could. It is a move that is completely in your favor.
I love how anyone not allied with FCC or Fimblah is by default working for us, but that is only in the eyes of those in FCC or Fimblah so I wouldn't hold too much on that statement.
>>Or Hospitallers when we were heavily assaulting them before or now as they get more into the thick of fighting or even occitan as they are duking it out with ve.<<
When hospitaller was getting smacked, they were getting smacked by everyone. You are right, they could have jumped on the bandwagon. They chose not to.
In my eyes, they went after someone who didn't have someone on their plate already. More honor in that I think.
You were getting attacked by three bigger factions and the numbers were stacked against you. At the time it seemed like the best move, TKoV was held up in the desert with Occitan and FCC was expected to be preoccupied with Hospitaller. If we wanted to expand our territory, you were the easiest person to take it from (and closest to our original territories) with the littlest of repercussions and losses at the time.
>>Or Hospitallers when we were heavily assaulting them before or now as they get more into the thick of fighting or even occitan as they are duking it out with ve.<<
When hospitaller was getting smacked, they were getting smacked by everyone. You are right, they could have jumped on the bandwagon. They chose not to.
In my eyes, they went after someone who didn't have someone on their plate already. More honor in that I think.
Astralis seem like good people. One of the reasons you are going to war with them is because they are merccing against FCC? Aren't they surrounded by Occitan and Hospitaller though? To do anything else would risk their safety.
I love how anyone not allied with FCC or Fimblah is by default working for us, but that is only in the eyes of those in FCC or Fimblah so I wouldn't hold too much on that statement. Truth is FCC will attack anyone that is not "Helping" them dominate the NA map, which is fine as the lines are clear with who mercs for who, aside from some neutral factions but even then you can get the gist of who they favour.
Its side 1 Vs side 2 and everyone is fair game. FCC wanted to come off like a responsible parent refereeing a school yard fight claiming fairness with the smaller factions, but instead ended up shanking those regardless of size. At least you can respect Tkov as they are blunt about their intentions and come off as warriors. FCC is like a nerdy geek behind a desk with his finger on the *Send nuke* button yelling "Come at me bro!" while puffing his inhaler and yelling at his mom to bring him a sandwich.
Who are the Free Peasants allied to? TKoV? FCC? Hospi?
Speaking to the point of helping out.
Hero party helped out early
bird clan when they were down
dracul we bought a fief for because they wanted to own land
Sandersson's crew when his trader was attacked
tundra nation with homes
NH when they were getting ranged on (tho with their cities and castles they prob did not need us)
now tuets when they were against the wall.
Now ask any of them if we required anything for the help... Hell most did not even ask us we offered. Does some of it serve our interests, damn right it does ,but we do not go in saying do this or tough luck.
I understand people not liking us, but saying we are not helping small clans is wrong...
There u go all the forum warriors are out now for us.yeah lets trade again :twisted:
before they go full tilt if you guys seriously would like to try and solve things diplomatically baleohay on steam
I really hate what I call "paper diplomacy". I'd rather have a friend than an ally any day. That's what I would consider FCC and VE to us. I could work out a nice business deal with someone, write it down on paper, and proceed to wipe my own ass with that very paper a week later. If I consider someone a friend and they consider me the same, I find that much more reliable than a business deal. After all, it's a diplomacy simulator on the internet. No organization exists to punish breach of contract, but reputation and word of mouth is pretty damn powerful.
Friends and allies can both do a disservice to the game. Friends, though, are what can ruin the game for long periods of time. Look at the UIF - or rather, the lack of "UIF". It hasn't been one conglomerate of allied clans since the first strat it was called "UIF", but the constituent clans that comprised it are still friends and therefore will never play the game at odds with each other; they'll say they're not allies but then work together and never be enemies. For a lot of people that worsened the state of the game; everyone who went against one clan in that group of friends met the wrath of the rest of them combined as well. The only way to solve that situation is to mass allies together, which in turn makes the game worse further after the friendship side has perished - because the allied side probably has recorded and notarized strat-legal documents proving their alliance, and so the course of an alliance might rigidly stay well past its due necessity.
An example slightly to the contrary, and pardon the use of past strats as examples, is the Chaos/Druzhina alliance in strat 2. It was an official and public alliance. We were friends, too, to an extent, but not to the point where we'd stay that way forever. We never talked much after the NA side got split from the EU side in later strats. Now here's where the example comes into play: Chaos members were also for a long time very close friends with the members of the FCC. It was personal. We had always wanted to work together with FCC on Strat, but circumstances kept us apart. The end of this scenario was when our ally Druzhina was declaring war on our friend FCC. Diplomatically, we were bound to Druzhina. We decided, in the spirit of the game, to go along with them and fight with our allies against our friends. I don't think some of them ever forgave us for it. I still feel as though there's a grudge harbored somewhere in there to this day... but would it have been better if we'd broken our alliance with Druzhina before it played out just because we didn't want to hurt the feelings of someone we liked?
So what does that get at? It's hard for everyone else if you have friends, and it's hard for you if you decide to play in the spirit of the game in spite of friends. Having friends is dangerous for you or ruinous to the game, having allies is constricting. Allies aren't much better because you put yourself into artificial positions where you'd do something you wouldn't normally do, which can be interesting, but usually winds up with the diplomacy of the map in a less fun state than if you had neither.
As to the current situation, certain clans put others in positions where they essentially have no choice. If you fight everyone you don't like, the people that don't like you (for doing it or for whatever) have no choice but to side with the ones you don't like. If clans that need help see an opportunity, they'll sell themselves out for you (or for the other side). When you fight so many factions on the map at once, and only ever certain factions, you cause the entire map to fracture into two sides, instead of what could be multiple smaller sides fighting on a more local scale. And when friendships between clans keep them from fighting, it essentially causes the factions to remain constantly as those two sides in a conflict. Friends are allies, but because it's unofficial they'll never stop forming the same side in any conflict that comes from one part of the side they've put themselves on.
"Helping the little guy" is not always admirable. If the little guy can't fight on his own, you step in, and no one will ever fight him, they'll group up to fight you. It keeps progress from happening and stagnates the game.
Maybe it all comes down to personal preference and who you dislike the most, but I'd like to think that situations can change and that wars and diplomatic alignments don't last forever - I certainly don't feel the same way diplomatically about Hospitaller this strat as I did last strat, but I don't imagine every faction is capable of that flexibility.
Friends and allies can both do a disservice to the game. Friends, though, are what can ruin the game for long periods of time. Look at the UIF - or rather, the lack of "UIF". It hasn't been one conglomerate of allied clans since the first strat it was called "UIF", but the constituent clans that comprised it are still friends and therefore will never play the game at odds with each other; they'll say they're not allies but then work together and never be enemies. For a lot of people that worsened the state of the game; everyone who went against one clan in that group of friends met the wrath of the rest of them combined as well. The only way to solve that situation is to mass allies together, which in turn makes the game worse further after the friendship side has perished - because the allied side probably has recorded and notarized strat-legal documents proving their alliance, and so the course of an alliance might rigidly stay well past its due necessity.
An example slightly to the contrary, and pardon the use of past strats as examples, is the Chaos/Druzhina alliance in strat 2. It was an official and public alliance. We were friends, too, to an extent, but not to the point where we'd stay that way forever. We never talked much after the NA side got split from the EU side in later strats. Now here's where the example comes into play: Chaos members were also for a long time very close friends with the members of the FCC. It was personal. We had always wanted to work together with FCC on Strat, but circumstances kept us apart. The end of this scenario was when our ally Druzhina was declaring war on our friend FCC. Diplomatically, we were bound to Druzhina. We decided, in the spirit of the game, to go along with them and fight with our allies against our friends. I don't think some of them ever forgave us for it. I still feel as though there's a grudge harbored somewhere in there to this day... but would it have been better if we'd broken our alliance with Druzhina before it played out just because we didn't want to hurt the feelings of someone we liked?
So what does that get at? It's hard for everyone else if you have friends, and it's hard for you if you decide to play in the spirit of the game in spite of friends. Having friends is dangerous for you or ruinous to the game, having allies is constricting. Allies aren't much better because you put yourself into artificial positions where you'd do something you wouldn't normally do, which can be interesting, but usually winds up with the diplomacy of the map in a less fun state than if you had neither.
As to the current situation, certain clans put others in positions where they essentially have no choice. If you fight everyone you don't like, the people that don't like you (for doing it or for whatever) have no choice but to side with the ones you don't like. If clans that need help see an opportunity, they'll sell themselves out for you (or for the other side). When you fight so many factions on the map at once, and only ever certain factions, you cause the entire map to fracture into two sides, instead of what could be multiple smaller sides fighting on a more local scale. And when friendships between clans keep them from fighting, it essentially causes the factions to remain constantly as those two sides in a conflict. Friends are allies, but because it's unofficial they'll never stop forming the same side in any conflict that comes from one part of the side they've put themselves on.
"Helping the little guy" is not always admirable. If the little guy can't fight on his own, you step in, and no one will ever fight him, they'll group up to fight you. It keeps progress from happening and stagnates the game.
Maybe it all comes down to personal preference and who you dislike the most, but I'd like to think that situations can change and that wars and diplomatic alignments don't last forever - I certainly don't feel the same way diplomatically about Hospitaller this strat as I did last strat, but I don't imagine every faction is capable of that flexibility.
Your wall of text is both sound and lucid, and I feel like a bit of a shit-head to not give you one in return. However, I will give you a response.
It seems that the problem is that factions in strategus, and the members that make up those factions deem it impossible to have a conflict with another faction if they do not dislike them. It's a real shame.
If strat were wiped tomorrow, I don't reckon that in the next round my crew would be tied to VE, FCC, or the vikings. One can very rarely accurately predict the future, but my gut tells me that we'd be open to any sort of arrangement with anyone.
I also should have been more clear on what I said earlier; I do not hate that other factions use "paper diplomacy". Not at all. In fact, I find it pretty cool and conducive to the nice semi-RP that I am a fan of. What I meant was that I find it ineffective and flaky; not to be used personally.
Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any sort of solution to this. There's very little chance of changing folks' minds and hearts once they have been set. The large players in strategus have been large players for quite some time. Me, I'm new. Others remember grievances and such from previous strategus rounds, and remember them well.
I think my real problem is that I have a hard time putting anybody at a disadvantage in strategus; and that's something you've simply got to do. There were plans on the table to crush HG beneath quite a few mailed boots, and it would have been (in my estimation) rather easy and profitable. Although those plans were partly changed because of HP/LCO attacking us, they were also changed because I felt downright awful since Elindor was a damn nice guy. Here I am preaching about people refusing to attack those that they don't dislike, but I'm no better than anyone else. Maybe just a lot less angry.
The problem i have with this theory of same size factions is in reality it will change nothing in a competitive strategus. Strat is a numbers game, and more resources wins the game. So the idea of strategus is simple: be bigger then the other side.
And honestly, i know what CHAOS has done this strat, you guys tried to attack factions your own size both in fallen and teutonics. Nothing came of it though and more importantly you guys only got to do a small handul of battles. You even saw remnant join in on the fallen war to grab a free village.
It shouldnt be hard to understand why factions like to gang up on smaller factions. Small risk big reward. The only way to stop this is with mechanical structure, which imo is worse, and lets face it: not going to happen.
Honestly i feel the problem that plagues strat is the forum butthurt over wars. (And im guilty of fueling the fire) But we should be wanting to fight as many wars as we can, and i think the butthurt stops alot of factions from having fun in wars.
I tell you what though, if we do a next strat the faction im looking at buddy-ing with occitan/chevs. No seriously you guys have been awesome to war with, and imo this has been a really fun war so far.
Also @ shinock: you all have no idea how close we were to fighting fcc. They chose remnant over us so that they could keep the remnant mercs and our mercs. We had invasion plans set up and made up excuses why we couldnt swap goods anymore. Remnant collapsed first though, and hospitaller never even asked us to join in. I guess we actually thought fcc would attack us first, but old news is old news and we are back on the same side. One thing though, in this strat we have fought against hospitaller, with hospitaller. Against hero party and with hero party. So dont say we didnt try.
Its easy to understand why most clan don't wanna attack clans they dont hate, look at the forums... all the shit storms a war causes. Ill give you an example on our try on your castle, i didnt really know frisia before that and to me, you were all good guys since i didn't know you (benefit of the doubt) then came Daruvian and all the shit/trolling he does and general ways he acts because were at war with you. At that point i was like what a douche bag and i didn't feel anymore guilt as to what we were doing really and yes most of our clan dislike the kind of trolling that he does but what can we do... It just goes to tell you how fast relations can sour when you go at war with another faction even when you were once neutral.
Were always at war with the same people because we actually have a good reason to instead of attacking randoms yes but tell me, if you are in front of 2 dudes irl and one is super quiet and seems friendly and the other one cant shut his mouth being a general asshole and picking on everyone at the first occasion with his bullshit (KeshShincock]), who are you gonna give a nice new smile with your knuckles...
An example slightly to the contrary, and pardon the use of past strats as examples, is the Chaos/Druzhina alliance in strat 2. It was an official and public alliance. We were friends, too, to an extent, but not to the point where we'd stay that way forever. We never talked much after the NA side got split from the EU side in later strats. Now here's where the example comes into play: Chaos members were also for a long time very close friends with the members of the FCC. It was personal. We had always wanted to work together with FCC on Strat, but circumstances kept us apart. The end of this scenario was when our ally Druzhina was declaring war on our friend FCC. Diplomatically, we were bound to Druzhina. We decided, in the spirit of the game, to go along with them and fight with our allies against our friends. I don't think some of them ever forgave us for it. I still feel as though there's a grudge harbored somewhere in there to this day... but would it have been better if we'd broken our alliance with Druzhina before it played out just because we didn't want to hurt the feelings of someone we liked?
Everyone sounds so mad
you are allied to HG and remnant ;)
HG is quitting strat and neither of us are allied to Free Peasants. We have the TAMDA. Which is mainly a defensive pact. Theres a difference.
I tell you what though, if we do a next strat the faction im looking at buddy-ing with occitan/chevs. No seriously you guys have been awesome to war with, and imo this has been a really fun war so far.
Is occichevs the second largest faction?
So what the largest faction would like to do next strat to mix it up is to team up with the 2nd largest? Well played Hobb!
Is occichevs the second largest faction?
So what the largest faction would like to do next strat to mix it up is to team up with the 2nd largest? Well played Hobb!
I thought FCC and Tkov were all buddy buddy? You guys have a trade deal and always merc for each other. To everyone else FCC and Tkov are the largest factions so why not have the LCO and Tkov allied next time to switch things up, they are both respectable, honest and blunt about their intentions and stick with their decisions. Who knows, maybe Hosp and FCC will have to join up next time as we are both known as the black sheep of strat :p
I TAKE THIS game seriously guysfixed it for you.
You can say it dyna... you sign for fcc for your love of me.... and I am.happy to have you along
(click to show/hide)
Occitan strategus policy http://forum.meleegaming.com/diplomacy/occitan-border-policy/
can you tell me your current location on strat??? how come you get a fief ??? from who ??? also just to point you a fact unicorn use to be and still a faction under fcc (next time make a proper post to declare you are a peaceful trader and you have nothing to do with Fcc)
I welcome fcc anytime to come zerg us with their friends.
As for occitan we try to make it different this strat. We said new strat, it was but some people decide it was not...and have kept their grudge after all! So there is nothing to be change when it is coming from only 1 side.
For your diplomacy info dear trader.(click to show/hide)
Arowaine,
I would like to point out we tried to be friends with you when you came back to Na side. We helped find you land and wanted to become friendly and trade... You guys said thanks but no... and then when we went to war with hosp (they attacked us first) you jumped in for them.
The only time you came to us with good intentions is when you learned VE was going to go to war with you. You asked us to stay out of it. Other than mercing and trading we have basically stayed out of the war between you both and concentrated on Hero and Hosp.
If I look at the battle list you guys have attacked fiefs we owned (granted they were in the steppes) and we have not touched any of your homes
Yeah, Gmno, Arowaine wasn't really being a dick. His clan captured territory you were in and saw you as an FCC player roleplaying in another faction, worthy of attack. If I recall you dropped my name, and I just had a small chat with the guy that you were super helpful to us during Hosps' invasion, and even though we were now at war with FCC (seen as your real loyalty regardless of what you say) it'd be the right thing to let you escape with your stuff since you were a bro. Arowaine said "alright, I just thought he was some FCC guy lying to escape and was gonna attack him."
He's super reasonable, but with all the people and things you need to keep track of when organizing a Strat faction and relations, I don't blame anyone for just wanting to attack shit sometimes if they look like an enemy and not getting too involved in the personal diplomacy with individuals.
At the time it felt that Arowaine was being hostile and if it wasn't for you, I'd have been attacked.
This is still probably true 8-)
One thing I like about Strat is the friendships, rivalries, and personal diplomacy at play. Adds character to the game.
Its why I've been working on a Strategus mod for Crusader Kings 2, with all of the factions and personalities as playable characters, with plenty of unique traits and events. I will have to make a thread about it soon. CK2 is the perfect engine to really port over the gripping melodrama of the Diplomacy forum and fix the Strategus interface.
That way if you do you attack me you can at least make a nice post saying Occitan declares war on Gmnotutoo's Super Kawaii Desu Desu Japanese Schoolgirl Ninja Death Squad. :)
That...sounds awesome.
This is still probably true 8-)
One thing I like about Strat is the friendships, rivalries, and personal diplomacy at play. Adds character to the game.
Its why I've been working on a Strategus mod for Crusader Kings 2, with all of the factions and personalities as playable characters, with plenty of unique traits and events. I will have to make a thread about it soon. CK2 is the perfect engine to really port over the gripping melodrama of the Diplomacy forum and fix the Strategus interface.