cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: chadz on March 04, 2013, 02:26:21 pm

Title: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: chadz on March 04, 2013, 02:26:21 pm
Only post if you apply, + to show support

We are looking for clever people that are capable of joining the item balance team.

If you have a good understanding of the combat mechanics, are an active player and can think beyond "dun nerf meh!", apply.

Write a bit about why you want to join the balance team, write what you think about the current state the combat is in and how you would tackle the problem of the item balance. Don't be shy, there are no wrong answers. Except the obvious stupid ones.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: BlueKnight on March 04, 2013, 02:33:51 pm
Application cancelled.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Rhygar666 on March 04, 2013, 02:35:43 pm
nerf pikes
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: [ptx] on March 04, 2013, 02:36:58 pm
My CV. (http://forum.meleegaming.com/game-balance-discussion/improve-crpg/)

Will accept payments in booze and potato.

--edit: Some feedback and reviews:
(click to show/hide)

Also, this is not a serious application, despite the overwhelming support received. Sorry :lol:
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Bars on March 04, 2013, 02:53:05 pm
Buff Long Voulge !  :D
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Byrdi on March 04, 2013, 02:53:15 pm
I have been playing for far too long now and I always enjoyed playing different classes. I have only lately tried to dedicate myself to one class after several attempts; I still consider myself rather unbiased when it comes to the different melee types.

I would like to be honest: things seem pretty balanced as they are, but there is still room for improvement regarding a few things.
This means that I would very much like to help out adding new weapons and amours that fit in well with the current balance.

My knowledge of the development is limited to the impressions I got from beta testing the beta client (before the public release). But It made a positive impression and I would like to help out a little bit more. I like the idea of contributing to the game without being a top forum poster.

Thank you for the wonderful game and the continued development throughout all the years.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Tyr_ on March 04, 2013, 02:53:47 pm
I'd like to join the balancing team. I used to be very active but I am currently moving to a new apartment so I didn't have much spare time the last weeks.

I play 2her for 2 or 3 years now, so i got very bored of it and i am basicly playing every class on my stf characters and i am fairly good with every class, so its easy for me to compare their strengths and weaknesses. Looking at the last balances i think that there is definitly a lack of experienced players withing the balancing team, my favorite example for this is the last change of the DGS and GGS, which made the GGS slower and its stab heavier hitting - which is not a balance, but an insane buff for every decent player that knows how to use a great sword.

I think the game is too random at the moment. If you have IF and low armor your chances to survive are better than the one of someone wearing a plated armor without IF, which is complete bullshit. Nocti can 2-3 shot me with his Hornbow while i have about 70 body armor while every singe arrow of an horsearcher bounces on me if they use the same bow - it is still the same weapon, powerdraw shouldnt have such an impact, it is still the same weapon.

Weapons and arrows always were made for a specific purpose, therefore their efficivity in combat should refer to their actual use. Long thin bodkin arrows like we have them in game were made to penetrate mail armor, they can only scratch a plate. Swords are for cutting down peasants, morningstars and bec the corbins are good against heavy armored targets.

The combat mechanics should become more realistic. For example if a onehanded sword hits a gothic plate armor at the cest it should do a medium amount of blunt damage, since it has no chance - no matter how heavy you swing it - to get through the armor. If you are strong enough you may break you opponents ribs, but it shouldnt do cutting damage.

Damage should be based on the armor you wear. Hitting sweetspots of the enemy should be more important, currently there is only the head, but since armors are actually weaker on arms&legs than on the body this should be the places to hit with higher damage, not the chest.

Muffin and I started to do a very long post about balancing/game mechanics but since I am moving we stopped it for now. I do not want to take too much out of it before speaking with him, so I'll edit this post later.

Ps: damn u cmp, new game mechanics would be much better :/
anyway, as i just edited it: There need to be more experienced balancers. You need to see 2 parts of the item balancing: The unexperienced players which pick the easiest way to play and the very skilled ones that do good with every weapon against every other weapon. From the experienced players you can learn how to micro-balance and item (if 50% of them start picking a longsword you know something is wrong) and the less experienced players give you a good feedback about which weapon is completely inbalanced
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: cmp on March 04, 2013, 02:55:34 pm
Just a clarification: item balance means item balance, not game mechanics balance.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Shadowren on March 04, 2013, 02:58:28 pm
I have played every class  possible in C-rpg :{D  I wouldn't mind helping if it didn't come in the way of my admin duty's and my normal life.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Everkistus on March 04, 2013, 03:10:02 pm
I'm applying for this. I have played pretty much every class and if chosen, will try my best at getting the item & class balances correctly. I believe this is the one dev position where I could really be a help.

You guys already know me, I've been playing since 2010 and been an admin for over 2 years as well. I got elected to be an admin with a short and serious post, so I'll give this a shot as well with a short and serious post.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Rebelyell on March 04, 2013, 03:26:43 pm
If you consider balance of siege EQ like catapults or craptowers I love to help.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: JackieChan on March 04, 2013, 03:30:02 pm
Well if this means speeding up the new item patch, why not!

I've witnessed 3 years of patches, nerfs and buffs, seen how it affected the game and the players. I also noticed the mistakes and the good doings. Played many classes and i am active daily so i know how things are ingame. Nothing more to say.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: SirCymro_Crusader on March 04, 2013, 03:42:29 pm
Thought i would write my own wee little app for this:

Firstly just a wee bit about myself,

I've played warband for way too long, if i mention the hours i will probably shock myself but it is well into the several thousands and that's just on steam. My experience within cRPG varies, from the very start, to present with a wide range of experiences in melee and ranged combat. I've played a wide range of classes with variations of each of the 3 classes 'infantry, ranged and cavalry'. My first build was 2h, and that evolved into crossbow, shielder, cavalry etc etc so i have a very wide understanding of all the classes and what weapons work well and what don't, which are overpowered and some which are not.

Also a note on armours, some of them are ridiculous and based on price and armour you get there are ones which can give similar stats with a point or two of IF that are several thousand cheaper and just throws a lot out the window.

In my eyes the current state of combat is mixed, sometimes i see some obvious things that are complete bullshit yet they happen anyway, such as speed of weapons, damage that some do when compared to others, ranged stagger. Yet whewn actually in melee combat things are ok, but could be improved a wee bit, all the glances, the sudden attacks with no indication of attack direction etc.

I've been playing this mod for 2 years and would like to see it carry on once the battleground is released and would like to help in any way i can.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Erzengel on March 04, 2013, 03:46:21 pm
Hello,

I would like to apply for the job as item balancer. I am generation 21 at the moment, very active (mainly siege, but also battle) and already have played all melee classes for a longer time (about 10 generations 2h/pole, 1 or 2 cavalry/thrower and the rest shielder, including several respecs).

In my opinion the game is pretty well balanced at the moment. All melee classes are nearly equally strong. There is no need for either huge buffs or nerfs. There are just some (more or less) overpowered weapons in each category that could need an adjustment. The Glaive for example is still too fast. Same goes for several one handed weapons like Steel Pick, Elite Scimmitar or Niuweidao. Also the knockdown chance on some weapons (especially one handed maces and Bar Mace) is too high. Don't get me wrong. I don't want to nerf items to the ground, just make slight adjustments. My goal is to make more weapons viable. I would really like to see some more variety on the battlefield. Two handed weapons for example are already pretty cool. Even the cheaper ones are useful. You can pick the weapon you like without being totally gimped. This is what I want to achieve for all weapons. One handed weapons on the other hand are the exact opposite. While there is already quite a huge and interesting variety, atleast 50% of the items are still completly useless (especially the cheap ones). Each weapon should fulfill a certain role depending on it's upkeep. Cheap weapons should be weaker than their more expensive counterparts but they shouldn't be useless.

Some armors could also need a buff. There are too many of them which nobody uses because they have not enough body armor/too much leg armor compared to their weight/upkeep. While there still should be some armors with high leg armor for cavalry there are just too many other clearly superior choices for infantry. You should be able to use the armor you like without getting too many drawbacks for your playstyle. It would be really nice if we could reduce the amount of Kuyak users this way.  :P

I am not an expert for ranged but my idea would be to give archers the ability to actually fight in melee without totally gimping their ability to shoot. You could reduce the slot requirement for all bows by one for example (Short Bow - Yumi = 0 slot, Rus Bow and Long Bow = 1 slot) while making all arrows 2 slots (and increasing their amount a little bit). This way you can either choose between a good bow, one quiver of arrows and a one slot weapon (+ Round Steel Buckler which should get a price drop) or a "weaker" bow with either two quivers/a two slot weapon/one slot weapon and shield. You can still kite, but you will either have less arrows or do less damage.

Just some ideas which came to my mind while writing this.

Thanks for reading. :)
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Bjord on March 04, 2013, 03:52:29 pm
Been playing several years, played every class, don't really care what class I play as long as I have fun and I strongly believe I have a sound field of knowledge regarding the balance as a result of my experience.

Also, for me it's a given fact that when you nerf or buff items, the increments and reductions are humble and non-zealous.

The reason for my application is simple: I want to help. I know I would treat this task like any job.

Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Tuetensuppe on March 04, 2013, 03:54:24 pm
i hope you will pick several guys out of several classes...

so here i am to jump in for all the shielders :)

just an example, even if i'm mainly shielder or from time to time a really bad HX, i dont like what was done to the mauls and what the longspear and pike have become

and im not thinking about "nerf, nerf, nerf" in the first place -> in my opinion several thinks should be buffed or need some small changes :)


greetings


Tuete a la suppe


(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Korgoth on March 04, 2013, 04:04:45 pm
Played Warband since the beta, played cRPG since the day it came first came out. I've taken quite long breaks before but I'm still an active player. About weapon balance I would say it's pretty much as balanced as you can get it, ofcourse theres a few weapons which I feel need to be slighty nerfed *cough Rondel dagger*. I have played near enough every class in cRPG, I have alts for most classes. Right now my main is a Hoplite with a warspear, was this class before the massive hoplite buff.

Also you said you are looking for clever people, I am loads cleverer then loads of peoples in cRPGs.

It's me... Howard..
               Korgoth
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Fips on March 04, 2013, 04:22:32 pm
I've been playing this mod for almost 2 years now (Or maybe 1.5, don't remember exactly) and i'm quite experienced with all classes. Most of the time i was 2h, archer-hybrid and 1h(+cav), but i've spend a lot of time with the other classes as well. My alts all together have 6 or 7 gens, where i played basically any class there is.

I've never actually spend much time making suggestions in the proper forum-section, but that is only because i feel like most of them are not even considered or maybe even ignored. To change that would be my pleasure to do.

However, the most important thing in this application is probably the fact that i myself like to have some quality-time while playing this mod and i would really like to spend more time making it that for everyone, hence the application for admin and now this one.


That is all, thanks. =)

Oh well, one thing, since you asked it specifically in the OP: The current state of cRPG is actually quite balanced as far as i can tell. There are some items that definitely need some optimization (Steel pick, rondel dagger, Great Axe for example. Basically you just have to look at strategus to find the most OP weapon =D) and some classes really need some sweet lovin' (Archers still do balance-wise, as well as xbow) but most of the time when i think about what's wrong with the current state of cRPG it's usually something that is allowed by the mechanics, which should be not. Like face-hugging long spears hitting you in the head while actually just giving you a little bump on the head with it's shaft.  :D
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Smoothrich on March 04, 2013, 04:24:49 pm
Excellent 2hander/cavalry (especially lancer) player (high duel elo with 2hand/1hand, literally an EU cav champion despite NA ping), decent shielder and xbows, lots of time spent playing on battle, good eye in regards to Strategus battles (organizer, commander, merc) since that is what I play the most.

Good memory for the trajectory of balance changes in the game, can usually predict "metagame" shifts by identifying what the most OP things are before they become popular (right after patches or mechanics change that are biased for weapons) and know they will need to be nerfed or become overly popular.

First to suggest (with details) or was big supporter/lobbyist of various accepted changes:  heavy lance nerf, ammo weight changes, great sword rebalancing, various other things probably.

Good at figuring out how a new weapon could fit into cRPG balance while creating good stats, see my thread on new class of thrusting 2handers (the Estoc) http://forum.meleegaming.com/game-balance-discussion/new-two-handed-thrusting-swords-estoc/msg650649/#msg650649  Had support of modelers, players, devs, balancers.  Had an AFK balance team to blame for it not getting through officially.

Good eye for "fun" and how changes here or there would effect various builds, preferred weapons, and enjoyment of the game.  Would communicate reservations for any unfun ideas in regards to balance as some classes can get screwed up with changes that aren't viewed in a big picture.

I enjoy collaboration with people who have good ideas and suggestions and will step aside when I think someone is more knowledgeable or correct on an issue, or try to find compromises on things if I think it'd be for the best.

Not an idiot, priority on "fun" game, over or underpowered things leap off the page for me, observant of the tastes/performances of highest skilled players and how that reflects balance.  Good people organizational skills for actually agreeing to things and getting stuff through with agreed consensus. 

Also.. NA player.  Probably a con.


plz
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Xol! on March 04, 2013, 04:27:23 pm
I am an active player, I usually have 3-4 alts that I run around on.  I've played pretty much every class.  My main is a level 34 2h cav, I currently have polearm, xbow, great lancer, and hx alts.  I've been playing the game for a pretty long time (since the old xp/gold/retirement system), and spend way too much time testing game mechanics and arguing about item balance with Tydeus.

Generally, I think fights last too long as a result of a long stretch of small nerfs that generally made the game slower and less exciting.  On that note, I think 2h is in a good place and the other melee classes should be buffed to meet it.

The more specific issues I currently perceive with item balance include:
* 1h cut is (mostly) underpowered
* 1h stab is borderline unuseable
* 1h weapons have a ton of models but too little variety in actual stats
* Most polearms are underpowered, especially with the new turn speed mechanic coming in and the removal of polestagger.  Most could very justifiably use a buff.
* HA is underpowered at level 30 or below, though it becomes very good at post-retirement levels.  However, this is a game mechanic issue rather than an item issue.  This might be alleviated by changing (halving?) the amount of bonus HA skill gives and letting people take it every 3 points of agility to allow 21/27 agility builds to maximize their horse archery skill.
* HX is overpowered, and this is definitely an item issue.  I would suggest a relatively harsh nerf to light crossbow/hunting crossbow damage and a slight buff to reload speed.
* Cavalry bump damage is too high, especially on mid-tier horses
* Crossbows are too easy to hybrid because they have no direct damage modifiers related to character stats.  Also the arbalest is not a good weapon when compared to a heavy crossbow.  This is a tricky thing to fix because you don't want to overbuff the arbalest, but you want it to be effective against plate and also encourage arbalest users to target plate over unarmored targets.  My suggestion to try and fix both of these problems would be to remove the 'extra penetration' flag from all crossbows except the arbalest, then add a wpf curve to the class.
* 2h class is balanced internally for the most part.  There are very minor stat changes that might be made, but most of the weapons feel at least viable.  Also make studded warclub 1h/2h and useable on horseback and make long iron mace useable on horseback (since they don't have crushthrough anymore).
* Throwing is okay, but it's the one class that I truly hate playing because I am absolute garbage at it.  I will probably abstain from most throwing discussion, other than mentioning that they really need to be able to jump when they throw, and that change should probably be reverted, even if it means archer/xbow jumpshots coming back.
* Shields are (mostly) okay.  There are a few that could use a tweak (like the one-shottable round steel buckler, even though it's 0 slot).  Controversial opinion: I think everyone should be able to pick up shields, shields should be nerfed, and shield skill should be buffed to compensate.  It would solve a lot of the perceived ranged problems, and archer kiting could possibly be un-nerfed.
* I just finished an archer gen on an alt, and I think that it's in a pretty decent place.  I don't really like the arrow weight change, and would rather see a mechanic or metagame change to discourage kiting instead (like the shield thing).
* In general I think armor is okay, except that it really, really drags out fights.  I actually preferred the way armor worked before the armor soak changes.  In all honesty, though, I am a light armor player unless I'm in a strat battle, so I would need to take a more in-depth look at armor as a whole before suggesting any changes.  I would also want to see the weapon classes mostly balanced before working on any major armor changes.

I think that's about it.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


edit: Someone pointed out to me in teamspeak that my programming background may be worth mentioning.  I've also taken a brief look at the warband module system and have a (very) general idea of how it works.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Tomas on March 04, 2013, 04:46:54 pm
I'll apply.

My CV :D
- Played cRPG for over 2 years (can't remember when i started)
- Including alts I've played many gens as a shielder
- Many gens as Xbow
- 3 gens as archer
- 3 gens as polearm (1 as cav)
- 1 gen as 2H
- Actively helped with Strat.
- Been a Beta Tester for a while now.
- Made numerous suggestions on forums which i try and structure rather than just writing walls of text.
- Good historical knowledge having grown up with a military/social historian for a mother.
- Good with numbers having done a physics degree.
- I'm systematic, analytical and logical (again from the Physics but also from my current Logistics MSc)

EDIT:  Adding in my reasons for wanting to do this and what i'd change.

My reasons are simple - I have the time, want to put something back into the game in return for the many hours i've gotten out of it and I think I can do a good job.

What I want to do is also fairly simple.  I just want to split the weapons up into families and then make sure those families are internally balanced by roughly correlating speed & damage stats with weight, cost and length attributes.  I don't want absolute correlation here as that would be boring but there should be some sort of system there :)  Right now some items correlate but then others completely buck the trend :(
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Shemaforash on March 04, 2013, 04:57:01 pm
I've played cRPG for around two years and native since release.
I've played at least more than 200 matches in native and I'm quite enjoying playing in strategus as well as the current cRPG clan league.
I have lots of experience with the game itself and I find myself to be rather unbiased while having fun playing different classes (Archer, xbow, 1h & shield, 1h only, 2h, polearm, lancercav, 1h and shielder cav, horsexbow) and probably some more that I missed out.
Since I made a fool out of myself last time I applied to admin I'll keep it short without being repetitive, thanks.

I just wanted to say as well that this is a position I would take very seriously and where I feel most enthusiastic to help out with.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: XyNox on March 04, 2013, 05:00:40 pm

XyNox's application




First of all I want to say, and I am not doing this to gain anyones favour, thank you for including the community into these kind of processes. It certainly is most welcome. Without further ado,


  I hereby wish to apply for the position of an item balancer.



  Why do I want to join ?


I want to participate in item balancing for the sake of a better gaming experience for all people involved. I am a long time player and it I think it is safe to say that there is nothing more frustrating than getting your experience spoiled by unfortunate circumstances, that you or your personal skill can not overcome. Sadly, speaking out of my personal observations, the root of that issue seems to be bad item balancing in particular quite some times. Getting rid of these issues is my goal and my intention behind applying.

Let me also point out that am looking forward to pursue an unbiased and fair balancing policy, especially regarding topics that may affect me or my class more than others. I am quite aware that I get involved in class-trashtalk on the forums or ingame every now and then, harshly criticising other players for their choice of class and equipment. Let me assure you however that I am also aware that with the right to make decisions comes with great responsibility and the need of maturity, which I can both provide.



  What do I think about the current state of balancing ?


I say the game is certainly not unbalanced, neither I would concider it perfectly balanced ( which is probably the reason behind offering people to act as item balancers ). I notice some issues when comparing items regarding a single class, as in comparing all 1H weapons for example, though I would not declare these gamebreaking. The real problem this game currently suffers from is balance between all the different classes. At least this appears to be the one producing the most rage on the forums. Contrary to opinions that other people in this community share, I do think those issues can be resolved by balancing item stats only, without having to touch core gameplay mechanics.

In the end, to really understand the full extent of what is balanced and what is not, we are in need of detailed ingame testing. No more theorethical scenarios that have been ripped out of context. No more discussions about why this or that argument, which player X brought up is invalid because he didnt keep battlefield-value Y in mind. I have played every class there is. Some more, some less, and if I know something, it is that I cant talk about something in specific that I have not tried doing myself. And I think many people will be surprised on how someones point of view can change when actually giving something a try instead of only talking about it.



  How would I tackle a problem ?


First of all, no matter how assured I am about my sense of objectivity, I see involving coworkers about my opinion as a necessity. Logic as in "does it make sense" should be the first tool in your belt when approaching a problem. If a potential solution to the problem showed up, the next thing to check should be seeing it in the big picture, giving it some context. E.g. If the numbers in the formulars are right but the whole thing feels wrong, it simply doesnt fit the big picture and is therefore not a valid solution to the problem. Always be aware of the worst case scenario of you ideas, the best case scenarios and then everything in between.

The most important thing is probably not to get biased towards your own ideas. When I remember my beginnings of making maps for HL1 about 11 years ago, I saw beauty in ugly, blocky, badly aligned structures, although there was no beauty there. The only reason for me to make up these illusions was simply due to the fact that it was created by my own hand. Something I did not notice back then but I surely do today.



  Final words


I really like this mod and play it a lot more than I should. Helping to develope instead of just playing cRPG would be outright awesome. I am highly active and can afford a lot of time. Needless to say, I am looking forward to answer questions, if there may be any.

E: I hope gangminusing from the usual lobbyists has no influence on any decisions made here.

  Thank you for reading


Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: karasu on March 04, 2013, 05:09:39 pm
Well, won't be doing massive walls of text, so, I think I have a good background to help on this subject.

    Been playing different classes every gen/respecc (main at gen 25, several alts, some at gen 4 p.e.), specially post nerf/buff chances to actually see what changed or simply due to ineffectiveness of such classes/play-styles.

    Can say with all honesty that at this point in my crpg-career I'm way more neutral and objective regarding item balancing specially due to all the info above.

Any other info, feel free to PM me.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Apsod on March 04, 2013, 05:10:37 pm
Hi, I'm Apsod, and this is my application for being an item balancer for this mod.


I have been playing M&B since 2007 and over the 6 years that I have been playing this game and with over 3000 hours of play time I have learnt pretty much every single little thing about the game. In 2008 I begun learning how to tweak the game to the way I wanted it. I used simple programs like TweakMB, HokieBT's Troop Editor and Jordan's Item Editor. These programs allowed me to do things that I had wanted to do since I first tried the game.

When Warband was released I made my way into trying to modify the game on a more advanced level using the module system. I made a few small mods such as Angry Farmers and Warrior Evolution. I felt that the mods I created was a bit to simple and I wanted to add some more advanced things, so I tried learning how to make my own scripts, so I could add new features into the game. I realised that it was not that easy and I felt that I didn`t have the time to learn such things. So I stopped releasing mods, but what I continued to do was making these small mods that featured a lot of new bots and weapons. I made so many of these tiny mods that I could sit here for hours writing about them. I have no idea how many I have made. I also made a bunch of small mods that me and a couple of friends played. All of this learnt me more than I should know about how to balance a mod.

Now, I have been playing cRPG since there was only a 40 player server up. I have played every class in the mod and I know the strengths and weaknesses of them all. I think that for the most part that cRPG is a balanced mod, but there are a few classes and equipment pieces that are either OP or UP. I feel I an idea on how to fix these things though. I know that cRPG has its own features that I would have to adjust to, such as archers not be able to jump or the turn rate nerf, but I think that I should have no problem balancing with those in mind.

Now, I know that everyone will not agree with my point of view on balancing the items in this mod. People will always try to make the developers buff their own class or nerf the natural enemy of their class. I will try to listen to the community as well as my own judgement, but I will also have to not just listen to the loudest part of the community. I feel that there are some cases where a class or specific item isn`t that good actually, but yet the majority of players still complain about it. As an example I will take archery. Almost every non-archer complains about archers, but in my eyes they are not that good. The reason why people complain about them is because they are annoying, now I want to try to do something about that. Try to change them in a way to make them less annoying, but not less effective.

To sum this all up I want to finish with a Tl;Dr for people who don't want to read my wall of text.



Tl;Dr:

Why do I think I should be a part of the item balance team?

Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: brockssn on March 04, 2013, 05:39:19 pm
Quote from: chadz on March 04, 2013, 02:26:21 pm
Only post if you apply, + to show support

We are looking for clever people that are capable of joining the item balance team.

If you have a good understanding of the combat mechanics, are an active player and can think beyond "dun nerf meh!", apply.

Write a bit about why you want to join the balance team, write what you think about the current state the combat is in and how you would tackle the problem of the item balance. Don't be shy, there are no wrong answers. Except the obvious stupid ones.

chadz,

I want to join the balance team because I've been starving to help out this game in some form. I think this may be it. I have experience admin'ing games such as UO, Counterstrike, etc. However, I would like to help out as a balancer because I'm a very fair person who can put myself in others' shoes and see where the problems are. I've played all of the builds in this game and have a good understanding of balance issues such as Skey spammings, turtlers, kiters, cav etc. And I hate to see so many items in the game not being used because there are a few in every build that are OP. Allow me to help out and I will greatly appreciate the opportunity.

Thanks
-Brock
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Kafein on March 04, 2013, 07:19:11 pm
Hi.

Ho shit this time I actually have to write something.

Well, most of the people that regularly visit the balance suggestion hellhole forum probably know my stance on things. I wonder how many downvotes I can rack up from these people by applying here.

I think the role of an item balancer is more about making sure the balance is right at the smallest level, not class v class balance. Things like fixing some weapons being strictly inferior to others in every aspect, some high tier weapons being underused (bec, HGS, side sword ?), or some weapons being too good. I started cRPG back in september 2010 iirc and still play quite a lot so I know when I witness something that is simply wrong, and I also know that baby steps are better. I also value the uniqueness of each weapon, balance should try to avoid turning all items into the same thing. I do have ideas about global balance but I do not believe that is the major point of this role. Global balance issues have to be tackled in conjunction with core mod stuff such as WSE magic, upkeep and gamemodes. Item balancers can only do so much about this (they are not powerless, but usually you can only obtain suboptimal solutions like this). A short list of examples of things I'd like to bring :


Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Pentecost on March 04, 2013, 07:50:49 pm
>Why do you want to join the balance team?

I want to bring both transparency and decisive action to the process of item balancing, while checking the influence of lobbyists and reactionaries.

>Write what you think about the current state combat is in

NA and EU have different metagames, and I am not familiar enough with the specifics of the EU metagame to be able to comment on it in an informed way. The NA metagame has some problems, but I think the most serious ones (the efficacy of strength builds compared to agility builds, turn speed change etc) have more to do with game mechanics than item balance. The problems I have identified specifically pertaining to item balance are enumerated below.

>How you would tackle the problem of item balance

I agree with most of what Xol said, although there are several points that I think are worth adding on top of his:

-Balancing items by cost alone is a terrible design philosophy. Due to the existence of the marketplace, all it does is essentially penalize newer players who have little to barter with and allows veteran players who are not mentally handicapped when it comes to trade to use whatever they want almost indefinitely.

-Items should have a cost and difficulty proportional to their actual effectiveness. Throwing Spears should not be significantly more expensive and difficult to use than Heavy Throwing Axes when they are inferior weapons in almost every situation. The Plated Charger should not have a 65k cost with a 4k+ upkeep unless it actually does something that justifies a 65k cost with a 4k+ upkeep. The Wakizashi should not cost over 6 times as much as other weapons that are statistically similar just because one developer hates wapanese.

-Items should be balanced for the normal game modes first and Strategus second, not the other way around. There are several items in the past that have purportedly been made nearly useless because they were too effective for their cost in Strategus; this is a horribly policy considering that a plurality of the player base is not involved with Strategus in a meaningful way/at all.

-Armor needs a major rework. Heavy armor is counterproductive to wear unless you are a high strength build or in a Strategus battle. Heirloomed medium armor with heavy gloves and a heavy helmet is too effective for its cost, weight, and wpf penalty compared to heavy armor. Light armor should be better than it is.

-Increases in armor become more effective the more armor you have, when it should really be the other way around. Tydeus has previously proposed lowering the maximum amount of armor obtainable in order to fix this, but I actually think diminishing returns for higher armor values would be a better solution in the long run. Going from 20-30 armor should do more for your overall survivability than going from 60->70 armor, in other words.

-The normal Crossbow is too effective, especially when masterworked and used with +3 Steel Bolts. It's accurate even with no wpf if you can aim decently, does tremendous damage, and doesn't prevent you from carrying around a longsword or greatsword in the way that any of the better bows do.

-The internal balance of throwing is atrocious. No less than 5 weapons (Stones, 4-Point Shuriken, 6-Point Shuriken, Snowflake, Throwing Lance) are situational or only ever used in joke builds. There is little incentive for anyone, whether he is a hybrid or pure thrower, to use things like Javelins or Franciscas over the best-in-slot weapons like War Darts, Jarids, or Heavy Axes. The extra penetration tag assigned to the Heavy Throwing Axes makes them inordinately good against higher armor targets despite the fact that they do cut damage and not pierce or blunt.

-There are too many heirloomed items in general. The reason this is obviously a problem is because items are supposedly balanced around their +0 versions rather than their +3 versions; naturally, this is going to result in many things more powerful than they should be, which in turn makes other things less powerful than they should be. The efficacy of the heirloomed medium armor combination described above is probably the most glaring example of this issue, but it is far from the only one.

-Nerfs should be a last resort rather than a first resort. If at all possible, imbalances in the game should be corrected by improving the effectiveness of competing items rather than making the supposedly unbalanced item nearly worthless, ala the Long Voulge.

>Why should you pick me?

I would bring a different perspective to the table, I think. Many of the other applicants who are serious about becoming an item balancer can claim that they've been playing this mod for three years now. I cannot. While I have played enough that I have a firm grasp of where everything stands relative to everything else and why, I haven't played for so long that I have an investment in any particular playstyle or weapon that would unduly influence my judgment (which is naturally going to happen when you've literally spent years in the same game).

More importantly, I do not hesitate to admit that I am wrong when I have made a mistake. Item balancing is, like any other process of continual improvement, filled with missteps; in light of this, the ability to acknowledge when your designs have gone astray and recognize how to fix them is arguably the most important quality of all for an item balancer to have.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: BarBeQ on March 04, 2013, 08:26:05 pm
Hi i want to apply for item balance team.

Info:
-i played with alllmost every class and weapon.
-i dont play in any clan or group, so my decisions would only depend on ingame situations rather then someone asking me to change something.
-I have no main class and that means, that i would have no problem nerfing my own current class.
Rather then just changing for my own benefits.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Sebi_is_Hero on March 04, 2013, 09:00:51 pm
Well, I could help you a lot. I play cRPG over 2 years now and played nearly every class ( As Horse/Archer, Twohander , Onehander , Crossbowman , Cavalry ,....) so I know with weapones are "OP" and "US"


It would be nice if you pick me out.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Haboe on March 04, 2013, 09:03:24 pm
Im up for this, veteran shielder, at least 1 gen with all classes (apart from trowing, only level 27 char on that).
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Necrorave on March 04, 2013, 09:12:42 pm

EDIT: Deleting my app.  I am not the item balancing type.  (All I do is claim that mechanics need to be changed anyways.)

Would be out of place.  Thanks for the bit of support though :p
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Ronin on March 04, 2013, 10:06:27 pm
I'd like to be in the balance team too. I am playing actively enough. My philosophy is simple, every class has it's place in the game; so every class should be equally good and fun. I also played all classes except horse crossbow and horseback throwing (which I do a lot in native too).

Not much else to say... I doubt I'll be chosen; because I am not very popular at forum most likely. But there are also very good candidates, so that's not much of a problem as long as the game is balanced and fun. Not that I am planning to do this all by myself if I get selected. I will listen to people opinions. So selecting me will be selecting everyone. Well.. by everyone I mean the "reasonable everyone" of course.

Edit: I feel a bit encouraged by the latest patch, and just realized at least half of my suggestions are implemented to the game in a way. I wanted dadao to be buffed, it got buffed. I suggested a score system to feel the balance between classes, it got implemented event though it is a bit flawed. Now I brought up the heavy horse-light horse issue, and it got implemented. There are some other ones that I can't remember too. Maybe it's just coincidence, but maybe a secret eye is watching me lol. I feel naked.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on March 05, 2013, 08:29:06 am
I'd fix balance between the Scottish sword, the Espada, and the long Espada.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Lactose_the_intolerant on March 05, 2013, 01:25:04 pm
I'm maybe not the most adored member, never appearing on the ever constant repeating e-peen threads, never been the best dueler etc

But I'v been here in the background for a very long time, before even the upkeep patch, watching with an attentive eye all the changes in crpg, playing on alts some obvious showed who i was was, others not

Now what really interests me is not the total class balancing like "nerf 2handers or buff spears" but those small items that no one seem to pay attention, that dont get the love that they diserve. We often hear the community wanting new items and variety, but the variety is already in game, it is just that the poor stats of some item makes them unappealing for the players who just flock to the same weapon!

Many times i have pointed out some obvious flaws in some items such like the :

-warhorses problem
-Heavy throwing axes and throwing axes, jarids and throwing spears
-Internal poleaxe balance (seems to be fixed since then with secondary mode)

I can think of many more such as the highest costing but unloved long espada eslanova, other cav stat inbalances.

And mainly, stop hating on the archers. Also I am very concerned about horse ranged case, the easy strenght requirements on crossbows allows horse crossbows to be far more effective then its counterpart, horse archery, who is agonizing. This could actually be easily solved by tweaking the strength requirements on light crossbows that is insanely low (7)

For the others, a lot of these imbalances could be solve by a simple stat tweak on the weapon.

this is why I would like to join the item balancers, to finally work on what needs to be done, and have an attentive ear to the community's complaints
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Inglorious on March 05, 2013, 05:48:50 pm
Interesting thought that you are accepting applications to the Item Balance Team. For some time everyone has been criticizing everything about the people who are included in it. I wish hope to all those accepted, because it looks like it will be more of a curse than anything else.

If horses are considered items, all my generation have been of cavalry except for 4 of which I was infantry polearms user, and I would enjoy working with others on discussing seriously over items and how they have been used and how they can be tweaked to set the pace of the game.

If you're looking for someone who will want to primarily focus on balancing the cavalry section of the game, let me know and I'll elaborate with a better "cover letter" in a pm.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Blueberry Muffin on March 08, 2013, 07:21:29 pm
Dont have time to make a long app, will edit this post when I get home.

Id be interested in this, played since servers reset every 30 mins. Played every class on my main char, fairly decent with all of them. Very interested in balancing for a very long time, would enjoy the opportunity.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Ras_FrenzYYY on March 10, 2013, 10:44:33 pm
Why i am the best for this position??

First and foremost i am not affiliated with any Clan i am an experienced player (a hardcore one) that believes that the least thing that Crpg can do to its people is to share a bit of history through the weapons.

Whats the current state of the battlefield?

We are as i call it in the "Shield era".And that because people trying to create the most op class they can and shielded man can provide that.People also creating 12/27 type of builds (steel shield ) so they can chase down archers which is a complete travesty and destroys the whole battlefield and the tactic aspect.

How i will tackle the problem

Simply by justice and history.History will reveal the true aspect of the battlefield, the true tactics.We have the chance to create a historical accurate masterpiece.

Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: DaveUKR on March 11, 2013, 10:53:47 am
I'll start with the reason why I should be added to balancing team:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 which basically means a lot. I've stopped playing seriously in November and I play all the different classes now just to see how things are balanced. I don't have my own class now so I can't be biased as others may be.

And now a little story about me and cRPG:
I've played cRPG since its very beginning, played each class enough to know all of its details. I'm playing Mount & Blade since 2009, bought Warband when it got released in 2010. From the first days in this phenomenal mod I'm trying to contribute as I consider it a payment for my good hours in it. I applied and got picked by cmp as one of the WSE2 client beta-testers and I reported a lot of bugs/suggestions, so for what you see in client you could not only thank cmp (which did an enormous and awesome job!) but also us, beta-testers, a little for helping cmp.

Some players may know me as the author of the guide http://forum.meleegaming.com/guides/crossbowery-basics-and-tricks/

I was trying to organize more contribution from players with this thread: http://forum.meleegaming.com/general-discussion/motivating-people-to-make-mod-a-better-thing/ but in the end I got stopped by a huge wall between players and devs which simply didn't let me use your money on something that wouldn't be added for 100% sure.

I worked on hitboxes which you can see in cRPG now. http://forum.meleegaming.com/suggestions-corner/player-hitboxes/ The work is not over yet, but there are less ghost hits/shots now (hand hitboxes got added at least).

I fixed some models like this i.e. http://forum.meleegaming.com/suggestions-corner/fixed-models/

I fixed collision meshes for a huge amount of items (unluckily a lot of them were not added, but it's a matter of time) http://forum.meleegaming.com/suggestions-corner/fixed-pine-collision-mesh/

I also tried to find and discuss any of those strange items, but mostly kept talking about it in IRC http://forum.meleegaming.com/suggestions-corner/my-item-balancing-thread/

I've suggested so many things (most of them were suggested in IRC, and a lot of that got added in the direct or indirect way since 2010)

I'm not keen on masterworks (I have a lot of them now again though, but I never took part in marketplace operations to gain money). I gave the whole masterwork set of my crossbowman to random people for free (2 of items went to devs/admins to serve the community needs) http://forum.meleegaming.com/general-discussion/auction-23817



Hereby I promise not to stop working on the mod and move on to the balancing team. I promise to use all of my experience and do my best to make this mod a better thing to play!
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: owens on March 16, 2013, 10:58:58 am
-Played Shielder, 2H, polearm, archer, cav and ath whore.
 
-Played since alpha

-played every warband mod

-played 1000+ hours of cRPG

-play mostly duels

-play with massive ping

-Maths minor (Not finished, not a drop out yet :)   )

-Lots of forum posts= bigger penis= bigger brain
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Dach on March 16, 2013, 10:02:27 pm
Going to apply for this too... damnit!  :P

Who I am?

A noob that play C-RPG since september 2010... Is gen 27, retired one time at lvl 32, one time at lvl 33, respecced from lvl 33 and 32 too... played every class in this game... been a AGI whore and a STR whore.

Why should I be in the item balancer team?

To let you judge on how I will or want to balance thing, I'll just post here my vision on the C-RPG horses. That should give you a good idea if you would like me as an item balancer or not.

Horse would be divided into 6 different tiers, going from tier 0 to 5.

Tier 0 and 5 will only have one horse. Tier 1 to 4 will have 4 horses each.

In tier 1 to 4, horse will have 4 type: Agile, Fast, Jack of all trades, Hardened.

Here's the stat!  :)

Tier 0 - The commoner mount. (Cost: 5000 - Require riding lvl 3)

Sumpter horse

HP: 70
Body armor: 0
Speed: 40
Maneuver: 40
Charge: 0

Tier 1 - The page mount. (Cost: 10000 - Require riding lvl 4)

Desert horse

HP: 85
Body armor: 0
Speed: 40
Maneuver: 45
Charge: 0

Palfrey

HP: 85
Body armor: 0
Speed: 45
Maneuver: 40
Charge: 0

Steppe horse

HP: 85
Body armor: 10
Speed: 40
Maneuver: 40
Charge: 10

Rouncey

HP: 85
Body armor: 20
Speed: 38
Maneuver: 37
Charge: 20

Tier 2 - The cavalryman mount. (Cost: 20000 - Require riding lvl 5)

Arabian

HP: 100
Body armor: 10
Speed: 43
Maneuver: 48
Charge: 10

Courser

HP: 100
Body armor: 10
Speed: 48
Maneuver: 43
Charge: 10

Eastern

HP: 100
Body armor: 20
Speed: 43
Maneuver: 43
Charge: 20

Destrier

HP: 100
Body armor: 30
Speed: 41
Maneuver: 40
Charge: 30

Tier 3 - The knight mount. (Cost: 30000 - Require riding lvl 6)

Barded

HP: 115
Body armor: 20
Speed: 40
Maneuver: 42
Charge: 20

Padded

HP: 115
Body armor: 20
Speed: 45
Maneuver: 37
Charge: 20

Warhorse

HP: 115
Body armor: 30
Speed: 40
Maneuver: 37
Charge: 30

Large warhorse

HP: 115
Body armor: 40
Speed: 38
Maneuver: 37
Charge: 40

Tier 4 - The heavy cavalry mount. (Cost: 40000 - Require riding lvl 7)

Cataphract

HP: 130
Body armor: 30
Speed: 43
Maneuver: 42
Charge: 30

Charger

HP: 130
Body armor: 30
Speed: 48
Maneuver: 37
Charge: 30

Eastern warhorse

HP: 130
Body armor: 40
Speed: 43
Maneuver: 37
Charge: 40

Mamluk

HP: 130
Body armor: 50
Speed: 41
Maneuver: 34
Charge: 50

Tier 5 - The monster. (Cost: 60000 - Require riding lvl 8)

Plated charger

HP: 160
Body armor: 60
Speed: 40
Maneuver: 31
Charge: 60

Conclusion!

I feel that every item is a viable choice.

You're not getting screwed on upkeep for choosing a certain kind of horse.

Let the minus begin!  :P :lol:

(Stat are subject to change  :wink:)
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Blackbow on March 18, 2013, 02:48:32 am
i play archer since a bit more than 2 years now i played pretty all classes and i would help you with archery...

so i will not tell you buff this or nerf this for the moment, i need to know what are you waiting from archery, what's your vision...
then i should be able to guide you...
i know archery is pretty hard to balance because in good hands it can be very powerfull and can break ingame balance

atm i found archery very frustrating because of :

1 - ghost arrows who could maybe fixed by increasing missile speed but that will make shot easier so maybe nerf again body damage to balance this... (since the last missile speed nerf i do rly more team hit and it's rly boring)

2 - long range shot are rly rly harder now and we have to break the distance... ofc i'm not asking to been able to kill people from other side of the map but somethimes if we want to help some team mate at long distance it's pretty impossible and you have to get closer very closer... time to break the distance your mate he's generaly dead and you feel useless...

3 - score system is a bit unfair for every shot we only get one 1 point maybe give 2 point for head shot would be cool because geting valour as archer without going in melee is pretty impossible atm...

4 - i feel there is less teamplay between inf and archers than in past, pretty all the times infantries charge straight and let archers behind without playing with them, without playing smart like in a real battle...

this 4 example are my vision of what is going wrong with archery ofc to lot of people that's sound like asking a buff...
i just want archery become a real suport class and i dream of more teamplay with infrantries. i dont want an overpowered class beeing able to one shot everything ... i want something pretty hard to play who give me some challenge and helpfull to my mates.
i can think from infantrie side, like 2 handers for example it's rly not funny to feel powerless front a range but it's maybe not a 2hander job to charge archers...

so i told you my vision but i'm able to respect some constraint to help you on how balance this class/items

at your service

the pimp

Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Herkkutatti666 on March 18, 2013, 03:29:47 am
Doubt i get support on this. but i'll give it a try, veteran player, 3k play time, retired over 30 times,at least 3 gens on every class, used every weapon. Regards Herkkutatti
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Penitent on March 18, 2013, 04:27:36 pm
I would love to be an item (un)balancer. 

I have multi-gen experience with all the major "classes."  I switch classes often enough to not have any favoritism.  I have a strong sense of fairness and discussing item balance & item stats is fascinating for me for some reason.  I haven't been a part of any major clans for the majority of my multi-year playing career (just joined a clan recently) so I think I'd be a good impartial candidate and not swayed by "lobbyists" -- even though that may net me less "support" in terms of +1's.  :)  I'm an independent candidate.

I have a strong philosophy of advocating only gradual, incremental, conservative changes (when called for) and an "ain't broke, don't fix it" attitude.  That being said, I think there can be some improvement in the area of item balance right now, and I'd love to be a part of it!

The current state of combat:
I think that game is by-and-large balanced already.  That being said, there are some improvements to be made.  For example the new 1h weapons/shields introduced are a bit too powerful -- if the plan was to buff 1h weapons all around and the new items are intended to be the new norm, I still think they can be toned down just a bit.  There are several other items are useless to use (palfrey, eastern horse, for example) and items like these should be looked at. 

Tackling the problem of item balance:
Like I said before, tackling the problem of item balance should be done conservatively with deliberate thought.  I think each item should be considered on its own merit on a case-by-case basis...but items should not be reviewed in isolation.  Each item and play-style affects other classes as well.  Buffing one type of item or class often means nerfing another so a holistic view must be taken and deliberated upon.  I think its great to have a team of item balancers to build consensus.  The best would be to have a round of debate on an item, hearing arguments and counter-arguments...and then a vote.  Much like how parliament or congress works now but with less corruption. :)

In the end, I think item balance is super important in creating a great game.  This is all about the player experience, and all types of players should be respected.  C-RPG players deserve a rich combat experience with a well balanced and intelligently-designed palate of deadly instruments to choose from when expressing themselves in this medium of mayhem and slaughter.

I hope I can help out!
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Rage_Guy on March 18, 2013, 04:53:30 pm
me plz
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Banok on March 19, 2013, 09:13:14 am
I could definitely sort out some of this mess (http://forum.meleegaming.com/game-balance-discussion/is-2-slash-worth-5-thrust-10-reach-and-double-upkeep/msg687812/#msg687812).

Bring on the Infamy!

inb4 long war axe is FOTM.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Tristan on March 19, 2013, 03:07:42 pm
I am hereby announcing my candidacy for item unbalancing.

My platform will be one of ultra realism despite game unbalance.

The first step will be to introduce prices equal to these:
http://www.luminarium.org/medlit/medprice.htm

But with the consideration that a thatcher (average salery) was 2 pence a day and a plate armor cost 80 shilling and that average crpg tick is 50 gold a minute thus 3000 gold an hour hence 24.000 gold on a work day, we can assume that a 24.000 cprg gold equals 2 pence therefore a plate armor should cost 11.520.000 cprg gold.

I know it is a small first step, but it is important and will greatly benefit the future of this game.

Vote for me, vote for balance, vote for realism!

Oh and this for archers - everything for realism:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Dima_Urban on April 02, 2013, 10:35:04 pm
Greetings, I became interested in the game balance long time ago, I'm curious to find holes in the balance sheet as well as bring it into order.

In M&B and cRPG I play for a long time for all classes. I am the first who started to playing hardly one hander on the horse first in native then in cRPG, I was the firs one to build shielder with throwing lance (which was ridiculously OP). Also, any weapon with which I began playing was nerfed, even when it was not popular.

The main problem of inexperienced balancers, is that they listen to the unhappy part of the community demanding to nerf something, they nerf subject to the extreme, making it unusable, thus creating a new unbalanced item, creating a vicious circle of constant nerf. A striking example is originally an incredible buff unpopular side sword, and then his incredible nerf to the state unusable.

One the problems of the current balance are the old prices. The price of item should be dependant on its popularity and effectiveness amongst high leveled players.
Also in current balance we have a huge amount of weapons that are unused due to being plain bad (because they are cheap). War Axe, Battle Axe, Military Scythe and like half of onehanders are not even an option because they are only good to leech gold. In my opinion the vast majority of weapons should be useful(have unique plus).

And most importantly, I love every detail of the statistics, it is the main tool balancer and not the forum.

Expiriens:

Game Design:
-Http://sky2fly.ru/ (http://Http://sky2fly.ru/)
-Http://imperz.ru/  (http://Http://imperz.ru/)
-Urban Balance mod for M&B (one of the first mods in game)
                       
Gaming:
-Medieval Total War II champion, best Russian player.
-Shogunat Total War II games over the last month did 500 wins 15 loses just using unpopular unbalance units tactics
-Many others games I play,I always quickly find unbalanced items, and quickly getting into the top.



Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Fuma Kotaro on April 02, 2013, 11:03:41 pm
Hey I'd like to apply for this job as Item balancer (if i get at least a small introduction where to do what)
I'm playing this game on a daily base since September 2010 and I made my experiences with each class already (I'm a high gen player (44)) so I think I know on what could be worked.
Currently I think it should be worked on the Longe Voulge and maybe still on some new weapons mainly
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on April 10, 2013, 07:49:00 am
Frank: Bringer backer of the lance of compensation. Will also help Bars fix the LV!!!
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: NejStark on April 13, 2013, 03:13:28 pm
I applied.
No resonse.
thread dead.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Bobthehero on May 13, 2013, 06:39:33 am
I'd balance the crap out of dedicated swashbuckling weapons, yeah, you should hire me, been playing since 200x and I played a bunch of classes.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: owens on May 13, 2013, 08:35:03 am
Old player. Impartial, as unable to play competitively. Very willing.

My body is ready
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: darmaster on May 15, 2013, 09:07:46 pm
Quote from: chadz on March 04, 2013, 02:26:21 pm
Only post if you apply, + to show support


whoever plussed this is a fggt
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Sir_Hans on May 16, 2013, 01:42:16 am
Hey there, I've been playing for a couple of years or so and been playing m&b and m&b warband even longer. Before mount and blade I was having fun playin the old age of chivalry mod. (precursor to chivalry).

I'd say the only industry experience I have in game development lies in the two employment contracts I worked doing Quality Assurance testing for big name developers.
In 2006 I worked for electronic arts doing QA and in 2011-2012 I worked for NamcoBandai games. Both were full time, 6 month contracts... around 1,000 hours each plus overtime.
I acquired a good deal of knowledge on the methods of a good quality assurance team and how it supplements their respective developers. I learned a lot about larger developers, their process of development and how the larger devs fail when they let a person who doesn't play games make decisions on game design. Ohyeah and I definitely know how to write a bug report...  :lol:

I also have a very basic knowledge of 3d animation in maya, as well as basic knowledge in java programming. I'm also pretty comfortable in photoshop.

I'd like to join the balance team to help the mod become more prolific by suggesting or implementing changes from an alternate perspective. In hopes that the changes would be received well by as large of a majority as possible.

Here's an example issue of something I would like to see brought to discussion.  :mrgreen:

Holding backswings
What I mean by holding back swings is when a player "winds up" to strike but holds it back until an opportune moment.
Why this bothers me:
In the game,when you hold a "wind up" and you see an enemy coming in for an attack, you can switch from that "wind up" stance to blocking any direction in a split moment. This is especially true with fast weapons.
In reality,when you hold a "wind up" attack or that kind of stance with a sword behind your back ready to swing, you open yourself up completely to incoming blows from the front, really your best defense at that point would be striking the opponent before he hits you or after you dodge an incoming blow. Maneuvering a sword from behind your back to a position where you could effectively block an incoming blow would/should not be an instantaneous maneuver.
What I would suggest as a fix: add a slight delay in the time between a full "wind up" animation/stance to the point at which the player can block, a very minor delay mind you. This, I would expect, would make it so that holding a "wind up" attack would become a more "offensive" combat stance keeping the same rewards it has now but adding a little more risk to pay for that advantage. (the advantage/reward being the fact that you will swing faster from a "wind up" stance from a neutral stance.  I would not have this affect 1h w/ shield and would ponder having it not affect polearm thrust.

Not sure if this quite classifies as "item balance",
But it is in my sincere belief that if you really want to effectively balance this game and make it more enjoyable at the same time, you need to do more than just edit weapon speed, weapon length, damage, slot requirement, armor values, weight, etc...

I hope you guys find a good item balancer that meets the criteria you're looking for, cheers.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: DrKronic on May 29, 2013, 01:28:01 pm
I should balance weapons if u still need someone

Whai?  well I've started playing alot again, and I'm the oldest cRPG/ M+B players you have(unless someone can tie me for time played),  I'm not afraid to cut my own favorite class(2h), I play all classes(from ranged to 1h/2h/polearm)-well actually, ok I'm no good at cav but anything foot, I completely understand the weapon mechanics in this game as far as weight, animations, speed work, different kinds of damage, how armor works etc

I've probably played M+B games for a decade I think, I was playing first M+B when you could only get it from a weird lil web page nobody seemed to know about(pre/.7)

I'd like to contribute if u want help with anything so there u have it, even if its not this I'm an electrical engineer by trade(computer programming guy actually)


The current overall state of combat - good,  I can play on 2h/ pole or 1h and do between 1.5-2.0, on one hand it feels like a "best" cav can still outdo anyone else's "best", and that a "best" archer can't really dominate like old, but that throwers/ranged can definitely make life without a shield miserable,

feel like overall Power Strike is OP atm, tbh and that in reality agi/wpp is not equal to str/PS, not that perhaps it should be, but somewhere between that and where combat was when generations gave +10% xp a gen and wpp could go to like 212 and leveling was drastically different(I remember being level 38 once lol) and we had xp based on when people died near you

(REMEMBER ANY OF THAT LOL, if you do I may remember you)



I have over 3 years of playing this mod(I'm not sure actually the oldest screenshots I have now are from jan 2011, but I lost a hard drive, I'd have to look at old taleworlds forums to figure out when I started playing this), I remember when I first logged in and the website was just text and a white background, come along way and its been a fun ride, can't get what this game gives elsewhere for whatever reason....
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Panos on May 29, 2013, 01:35:32 pm
I think the lazy devs never actually hired anyone.


 :lol:
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Tydeus on May 29, 2013, 05:26:22 pm
Quote from: Panos on May 29, 2013, 01:35:32 pm
I think the lazy devs never actually hired anyone
That's not entirely true.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Kafein on May 29, 2013, 05:33:50 pm
Tydeus, are you part of the balancing team now ? I remember some posts from you that left me thinking you were, and I think it's great.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Panos on May 29, 2013, 05:45:57 pm
I can name at least 10 people of this community that have the skills to be devs of c-rpg
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Tydeus on May 29, 2013, 05:53:05 pm
Quote from: Kafein on May 29, 2013, 05:33:50 pm
Tydeus, are you part of the balancing team now ? I remember some posts from you that left me thinking you were, and I think it's great.
<Shik> since tydeus is balance now
<Shik> i guess we finally have STFU okiN
<Shik> as our acronym

(click to show/hide)

Also, Item Balancers are not Devs.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Necrorave on May 29, 2013, 06:02:53 pm
Most of the applications seemed to have just been abandoned.  I am probably going to take back my post.  (Not like I had a chance anyways :p)

I tend to be that guy defending every item, claiming that a mechanic needs to be changed instead.  So item balancing may not be my thing.

It might make more sense for me to get involved with the behind the scenes stuff.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Heroin on June 30, 2013, 11:04:06 pm
I'd like to apply to help with item balance. I think that combat in the game is a bit on the slow side, and that blocking is a bit too easy now. I've played every class in the game, and have been a player and/or admin since the opening of the NA servers. My approach to balancing would be from a top-down perspective, ensuring that the core mechanics of the game are functioning as ideally as possible(ie, WPF), then balance the items around those core mechanics. I think the system of WPF progression is in dire need of being scrutinized more closely. Once that has been fine-tuned, balancing items around that system will be more meaningful. I've recently compiled all of the data from the old WPF system to do a side by side comparison with what we currently have in my non-official balance examination, and would love to bring my research and diligence to the table.

I like to think of myself as fairly unbiased, as I personally feel like every class/build in the game should be viable, good, and have it's own setbacks and limitations.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on July 02, 2013, 12:00:43 am
I wish to join the balance team!

What I have to offer is a sound knowledge of all classes and no real predisposition to buff or nerf any class.

Ideally I want to see the great gamete of equipment have a purpose and a place and to "nerf" the whole golden weapon syndrome that happens from time to time.

I believe I can make a reasonable member of the team and take part in the debate in cogent and reasoned manner.

<<Caveat>> Please ignore every buff katana thread I have ever posted...

Vote FRANK Item balance team 2013 because you don't know what's good for you!
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: slimpyman on July 02, 2013, 03:11:02 pm
id definitely join. im old and mature. I got hair on my chest and back.   
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Jarold on July 02, 2013, 08:48:29 pm
Quote from: slimpyman on July 02, 2013, 03:11:02 pm
id definitely join. im old and mature. I got hair on my chest and back.

Hah, just the chest and back!
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: xxAcexx on July 05, 2013, 05:48:03 pm
I have played Crpg since the beginning and i have played every combination of classes. I have been through dozens of buffs and nerfs and sometimes i wish i could have a part in deciding since there are things that can definitely be fixed or tweaked for the better. I am active and Would like to be involved in balancing the game throughout future patches.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Rebelyell on July 05, 2013, 09:57:30 pm
Quote from: Tydeus on May 29, 2013, 05:53:05 pm
<Shik> since tydeus is balance now
<Shik> i guess we finally have STFU okiN
<Shik> as our acronym

(click to show/hide)

Also, Item Balancers are not Devs.

ok explain me then how that is balanced

Masterwork Miaodao
weapon length: 115
weight: 2.7
difficulty: 12
speed rating: 97
weapon length: 115
thrust damage: 0 pierce
swing damage: 45 cut
slots: 2
Can't use on horseback

I wanted to ask that for a long time
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on July 06, 2013, 02:06:22 am
Quote from: Rebelyell on July 05, 2013, 09:57:30 pm
ok explain me then how that is balanced

Masterwork Miaodao
weapon length: 115
weight: 2.7
difficulty: 12
speed rating: 97
weapon length: 115
thrust damage: 0 pierce
swing damage: 45 cut
slots: 2
Can't use on horseback

I wanted to ask that for a long time

Masterwork Two Handed Sword:

weapon length: 110
weight: 2.2
difficulty: 12
speed rating: 97
weapon length: 110
thrust damage: 24 pierce
swing damage: 41 cut
slots: 2
Can't use on horseback
Secondary Mode
So in exchange for 5 length and 4 cut (and .5 weight) you gain a 24 pierce stab... doesn't seem all that unfair to me, maybe I'm wrong though, maybe the 2h stab isn't extremely strong, one of the best parts of a 2h, and word 5 length and 4 cut, I wonder...
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: MR_FISTA on July 12, 2013, 08:56:42 pm
I would like to be involved in the balancing of items If I were to be entrusted with this position I would improve the stats on certain items for example the often neglected 1 handed sword types, I believe that in particular attention needs to be paid to cutting weapons without the stab animation as lacking attack types should in my opinion mean improved stats in particular swing speed.
 
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Apsod on July 12, 2013, 09:08:58 pm
Quote from: Rebelyell on July 05, 2013, 09:57:30 pm
ok explain me then how that is balanced

Masterwork Miaodao
weapon length: 115
weight: 2.7
difficulty: 12
speed rating: 97
weapon length: 115
thrust damage: 0 pierce
swing damage: 45 cut
slots: 2
Can't use on horseback

I wanted to ask that for a long time
I respecced to 2H recently and I started using a MW Miaodao.

At first I thought it was great, but then I picked up a MW Great Sword and I realised that the 2H stab is really a beast. I quickly got my hands on a MW Great Sword of my own and after I started using that I did much better on average.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Jarold on July 12, 2013, 11:16:53 pm
Yeah I have to say 2h lolstab is a huge staple in a fight. Love it, hate it, use it, and love it some more.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Lord_Bernie_of_Voodoo on July 20, 2013, 08:16:58 pm
I would like to join the Item Balancing team. I have been playing cRPG for almost a year now and have gone through a number of generations using many different builds and classes - Agi & Str based two-hand, Agi & Str Polearm (with shield and without) 1-Hand, Archer, Crossbowmen, etc. I honestly believe I have a good sense of what weapons could use "buffs" and "nerfs."

As of right now, I believe that most - say 70% to 80% - weapons are balanced and don't need a change. I'll admit, I may be biased for keeping polearms strong and nerfing 2H, but everyone is a little biased, even if they don't admit it.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: DaveUKR on July 31, 2013, 10:40:44 am
Quote from: DaveUKR on March 11, 2013, 10:53:47 am
I'll start with the reason why I should be added to balancing team:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 which basically means a lot. I've stopped playing seriously in November and I play all the different classes now just to see how things are balanced. I don't have my own class now so I can't be biased as others may be.

And now a little story about me and cRPG:
I've played cRPG since its very beginning, played each class enough to know all of its details. I'm playing Mount & Blade since 2009, bought Warband when it got released in 2010. From the first days in this phenomenal mod I'm trying to contribute as I consider it a payment for my good hours in it. I applied and got picked by cmp as one of the WSE2 client beta-testers and I reported a lot of bugs/suggestions, so for what you see in client you could not only thank cmp (which did an enormous and awesome job!) but also us, beta-testers, a little for helping cmp.

Some players may know me as the author of the guide http://forum.meleegaming.com/guides/crossbowery-basics-and-tricks/

I was trying to organize more contribution from players with this thread: http://forum.meleegaming.com/general-discussion/motivating-people-to-make-mod-a-better-thing/ but in the end I got stopped by a huge wall between players and devs which simply didn't let me use your money on something that wouldn't be added for 100% sure.

I worked on hitboxes which you can see in cRPG now. http://forum.meleegaming.com/suggestions-corner/player-hitboxes/ The work is not over yet, but there are less ghost hits/shots now (hand hitboxes got added at least).

I fixed some models like this i.e. http://forum.meleegaming.com/suggestions-corner/fixed-models/

I fixed collision meshes for a huge amount of items (unluckily a lot of them were not added, but it's a matter of time) http://forum.meleegaming.com/suggestions-corner/fixed-pine-collision-mesh/

I also tried to find and discuss any of those strange items, but mostly kept talking about it in IRC http://forum.meleegaming.com/suggestions-corner/my-item-balancing-thread/

I've suggested so many things (most of them were suggested in IRC, and a lot of that got added in the direct or indirect way since 2010)

I'm not keen on masterworks (I have a lot of them now again though, but I never took part in marketplace operations to gain money). I gave the whole masterwork set of my crossbowman to random people for free (2 of items went to devs/admins to serve the community needs) http://forum.meleegaming.com/general-discussion/auction-23817



Hereby I promise not to stop working on the mod and move on to the balancing team. I promise to use all of my experience and do my best to make this mod a better thing to play!

Unfortunately I have to retract my application because I can't guarantee I will have time for this in future. And I wouldn't like to take responsibility for something I'm not sure as it would be a betrayal of all those who supported me and motivated to do stuff. I told this to chadz like 2 months ago in IRC but I feel that I have to announce it to everyone because people sometimes wonder why I stopped doing things. It's a pity but none of my works during 2013 and last quarter of 2012 were added. The last were fixed player hitboxes and some model fixes in August of 2012. I did a lot of fixes/additions during that period of time, spent hours and days working for community but none of that got added. I can't even make a full list of what I've done because it's 2nd time I completely lose all the information of the stuff I've done, but most of what I did (which was ready to be implemented) was immediately sent to developers so they must have it on their PCs if they didn't remove it.

A small list of what I've done and it was ready to implement but didn't get in cRPG:
- Fixed collision meshes for more than 50 objects (can't even say the exact amount). The last version (didn't make new screenshots due to the amount of fixed objects) contained fixes for all main environment objects: all trees, all rocks and other natural objects. It also had some fixes of constructions (arabian houses, portcullis, some siege equipment)
http://forum.meleegaming.com/suggestions-corner/fixed-pine-collision-mesh/msg572906/#msg572906

- Brand new balance system of items with levels of balance (so there are basically no ultimate weapons and no completely useless weapons). New item stats/classes were ready, almost everything was done (besides foot/hand armour, helmets and throwing weapons).
http://forum.meleegaming.com/game-balance-discussion/weapon-subclasses-or-how-to-reach-balanced-diversity/msg751082/#msg751082

- New horses with models/stats to fill breaches in diversity. The last version contained fixed models/textures and it looked much better than on screenshots (some parts got completely retextured by the demand of devteam). Also IIRC I've added 1 extra horse there.
http://forum.meleegaming.com/suggestions-corner/more-horses-%28models-and-stats-are-included%29/

- New shields with models/stats. The last version had minor fixes in textures. I was also working on shields with spikes for future shield bashes.
http://forum.meleegaming.com/suggestions-corner/new-shields-%28models-and-stats-included%29/msg790496/#msg790496

- New system for bows. The one which was suggested by me and implemented by cmp was done in the very simple way. All bows have the same length stat (300) so all of them slow you down with the same multiplier when you have them in your hands. Shortly after this suggestion I made calculations which would give each bow a unique length => short bows would gain advantage of being more mobile than long bows.

- Fixed Strategus demolitions. I was working on models with better and realistic destruction stages plus additional destructions so there are no significant constructions which can't be damaged by catapults. Also destructions for wooden castle/towns. I completed like only 20-25% of what I wanted to because there was a really huge amount of work but still some fixes were ready to be implemented.

- Fixed maps. I've started a campaign on fixing glitches on the maps and balancing them. Year 2011, a lot of maps were fixed, nothing got implemented.
http://forum.meleegaming.com/scene-editing/collection-of-bugged-battle-maps/msg75341/#msg75341

This is what I've done and I remember. There were a lot of other minor fixes and things that I will never recall again. I simply lost the entire motivation on working on this mod because working hard on fixes/additions/whatever else that will never have the use is just too much for me. I just want to say sorry to everyone for giving up.

P.S. Kulin and Tony, I won the bet :wink:
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Teddy bear on July 31, 2013, 01:13:15 pm
My eyes bleeds from pronoun "I" in Dave's mssg, as ever.
TL but nevertheless read and understood, that whole evil dev.team should be gone and replaced by Dave only.
And sun will shine, and birds will sing.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: NejStark on July 31, 2013, 07:09:18 pm
Pretty sure this thread is long forgotten
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Tydeus on July 31, 2013, 09:13:48 pm
Forgotten? That's the last word I'd use to describe this thread. Doomed might be more appropriate.  :)
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: NejStark on August 01, 2013, 12:30:17 am
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: karasu on December 13, 2013, 10:12:32 pm
dat necro
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Molly on December 14, 2013, 05:50:30 pm
We should get a balancer for the item balancer...
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Tydeus on January 01, 2014, 05:15:37 pm
<Tydeus> Dear chadz, please grant the cRPG community 1 additional item balancer
<chadz_> bring me one :P

To the future of crpg!
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Panos_ on January 01, 2014, 05:21:30 pm
Zagibu should be an item balancer!
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Rain on January 01, 2014, 07:22:22 pm
Been playing this game for 3 years!  I would love to item balance or help in any way I can!  8-)
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Ronin on January 01, 2014, 07:34:56 pm
I want to be an item unbalancer too.

The first thing I would do is to work on internal bow balance.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: DaveUKR on January 01, 2014, 07:56:00 pm
Quote from: Tydeus on January 01, 2014, 05:15:37 pm
<Tydeus> Dear chadz, please grant the cRPG community 1 additional item balancer
<chadz_> bring me one :P

To the future of crpg!

meh, I won't get caught on this again. Waited for too long  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on January 01, 2014, 07:56:54 pm
Quote from: DaveUKR on January 01, 2014, 07:56:00 pm
meh, I won't get caught on this again. Waited for too long  :mrgreen:
No way in hell you'd get picked anyhow, you're like the worst possible candidate for this besides Panos.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Algarn on January 01, 2014, 07:57:02 pm
Ask chadz to accept two (Dave and Zagibu would be 2 perfect choices)
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: DaveUKR on January 01, 2014, 08:05:09 pm
Quote from: Zlisch_The_Butcher on January 01, 2014, 07:56:54 pm
No way in hell you'd get picked anyhow, you're like the worst possible candidate for this besides Panos.

Luckily that you're the last person in this mod whose opinion will be asked  :mrgreen: My application has at least 80+ more votes than yours.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Panos_ on January 01, 2014, 08:07:55 pm
Quote from: Zlisch_The_Butcher on January 01, 2014, 07:56:54 pm
No way in hell you'd get picked anyhow, you're like the worst possible candidate for this besides Panos.

Thanks!

Happy new year to you aswell!
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Tydeus on January 01, 2014, 08:10:36 pm
Quote from: DaveUKR on January 01, 2014, 08:05:09 pm
Luckily that you're the last person in this mod whose opinion will be asked  :mrgreen: My application has at least 80+ more votes than yours.
Yes, but you're not interested, remember?

Did Zagibu even apply? Would he even be interested? I know absolutely nothing about him, sadly. As much as I've been playing on EU lately, since you guys don't talk much in chat, it's hard to get to know people. (I should just lurk TS servers).
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: DaveUKR on January 01, 2014, 08:11:48 pm
Quote from: Tydeus on January 01, 2014, 08:10:36 pm
Yes, but you're not interested, remember?

I'm interested, but I can't afford myself the time that it requires and I can't just become one more item balancer who does nothing.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Tzar on January 01, 2014, 08:20:24 pm
I would love to. But i dont have the time either so....

Anyways, i strongly believe that a balancer should be someone who play all sorts of classes.

Also a balancer cant be biased... which makes it impossible to me to name one, you never can tell  :lol:

EDIT: If i was running for balancer, i would 1: Lower the amount of arrows per quiver. 2: Make some PD skill for Xbow if even possible :?:. 3: Buff right swing speed across the board, currently stab is just to viable. 4: Increase amount of throwing ammo 5: Revert the turnrate nerf. 6: Decrease the wpf weight penalty. 7: Increase gold income per tick. 8: Make aoe xp like in the old days, but keep multi ticks for gold income.

Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Tydeus on January 01, 2014, 08:28:35 pm
Personally, I don't care how biased a person is. Every suggestion should be judged solely upon the merits of the individual proposal itself. Doing anything else is absolutely absurd.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on January 01, 2014, 09:03:48 pm
Quote from: DaveUKR on January 01, 2014, 08:11:48 pm
I'm interested, but I can't afford myself the time that it requires and I can't just become one more item balancer who does nothing.
Translated to nonbullshit: I'm interested, but I don't wanna be humiliated when I'm not picked.
Also Tydeus pick me and I'll lobby for horsethrowing nerfs with you
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: DaveUKR on January 01, 2014, 09:33:45 pm
Quote from: Zlisch_The_Butcher on January 01, 2014, 09:03:48 pm
Translated to nonbullshit: I'm interested, but I don't wanna be humiliated when I'm not picked.
Also Tydeus pick me and I'll lobby for horsethrowing nerfs with you

Why? I made a post in this thread earlier retracting my application so why even making it?
Your desire to troll someone is a psychological trauma :D
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Jacko on January 01, 2014, 10:30:29 pm
We need more people to buff xbows.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: jack786 on January 01, 2014, 10:47:39 pm
Quote from: Erzengel on March 04, 2013, 03:46:21 pm
Hello,

I would like to apply for the job as item balancer. I am generation 21 at the moment, very active (mainly siege, but also battle) and already have played all melee classes for a longer time (about 10 generations 2h/pole, 1 or 2 cavalry/thrower and the rest shielder, including several respecs).

In my opinion the game is pretty well balanced at the moment. All melee classes are nearly equally strong. There is no need for either huge buffs or nerfs. There are just some (more or less) overpowered weapons in each category that could need an adjustment. The Glaive for example is still too fast. Same goes for several one handed weapons like Steel Pick, Elite Scimmitar or Niuweidao. Also the knockdown chance on some weapons (especially one handed maces and Bar Mace) is too high. Don't get me wrong. I don't want to nerf items to the ground, just make slight adjustments. My goal is to make more weapons viable. I would really like to see some more variety on the battlefield. Two handed weapons for example are already pretty cool. Even the cheaper ones are useful. You can pick the weapon you like without being totally gimped. This is what I want to achieve for all weapons. One handed weapons on the other hand are the exact opposite. While there is already quite a huge and interesting variety, atleast 50% of the items are still completly useless (especially the cheap ones). Each weapon should fulfill a certain role depending on it's upkeep. Cheap weapons should be weaker than their more expensive counterparts but they shouldn't be useless.

Some armors could also need a buff. There are too many of them which nobody uses because they have not enough body armor/too much leg armor compared to their weight/upkeep. While there still should be some armors with high leg armor for cavalry there are just too many other clearly superior choices for infantry. You should be able to use the armor you like without getting too many drawbacks for your playstyle. It would be really nice if we could reduce the amount of Kuyak users this way.  :P

I am not an expert for ranged but my idea would be to give archers the ability to actually fight in melee without totally gimping their ability to shoot. You could reduce the slot requirement for all bows by one for example (Short Bow - Yumi = 0 slot, Rus Bow and Long Bow = 1 slot) while making all arrows 2 slots (and increasing their amount a little bit). This way you can either choose between a good bow, one quiver of arrows and a one slot weapon (+ Round Steel Buckler which should get a price drop) or a "weaker" bow with either two quivers/a two slot weapon/one slot weapon and shield. You can still kite, but you will either have less arrows or do less damage.

Just some ideas which came to my mind while writing this.

Thanks for reading. :)

What? give archers more power in melee??/ Total bullshit. These days I have seen ton of archers with scotish and italian one handed swords defeating many knights in melee after they get close. One thing that should be nerfed is archers in melee. They can stay like they are right now-very strong and with high accuracy in ranged, but they shouldn have enough points to fight good in melee. Its so annoying if you finally manage to get somehow close to archers, and then get beaten by them also in melee...
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Macropus on January 01, 2014, 10:52:19 pm
Quote from: jack786 on January 01, 2014, 10:47:39 pm
Its so annoying if you finally manage to get somehow close to archers, and then get beaten by them also in melee...
So now THIS is more annoying than the kiting archers in the past? Hahahahaha.  :D
Sorry for offtopic.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: mrrdhardy on January 01, 2014, 11:02:39 pm
Nerf range back to old patch! Range is killing CRPG! make none loomed have to work hard to be good and make loomed archers good it give reason for people to use archers as main and not alts because you have to get looms to be good just like every other class in CRPG  :D
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Leshma on January 01, 2014, 11:06:04 pm
Like suble trolling of Tydeus. He's like, hey kids Santa is in town. Our donkey in the heavens (chadz) told me to give you position of cRPG balancer. (is there greater accomplishment for cRPG los.. erm I mean player?)

No sign of explanation what balancer's duty consist of. Is it just changing values, being part of the gang doing nothing but filling the number, coding?

Besides, being balancer must be a pain. Imagine if I was cRPG balancer. I'll try to nerf curved weapons because they are easy peasy and what would happen? Well since Katana is on that list, Thomek would call his buddy Florian and say: Yo Florian, that douchebag Leshma nerfed my Katana and now me and my clan have to stop playing and drinking beer with you in the pubs of Vienna. Stop that please. chadz would say, no problemo Thomek. Dude's a turd, dunno why Tydeus suggested him in the first place. Or I try to nerf spamitar, and all of a sudden Hetman calls Cooties. Kurwa mac, Nessaj! Spamitar bad, very bad. Injustice. So Cooties, being owner of cRPG and stuff kicks me hard in the butt and spamitar is again safe from any attempt to balance the damn thing.

Not to mention whole community cursing, $@#*&*$ Leshma, nerfed my ??? &#@W&#(*@!1!!! I don't know how you and Paul live with it, tbh.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Kafein on January 02, 2014, 02:03:49 am
Quote from: Leshma on January 01, 2014, 11:06:04 pm
Like suble trolling of Tydeus. He's like, hey kids Santa is in town. Our donkey in the heavens (chadz) told me to give you position of cRPG balancer. (is there greater accomplishment for cRPG los.. erm I mean player?)

No sign of explanation what balancer's duty consist of. Is it just changing values, being part of the gang doing nothing but filling the number, coding?

Besides, being balancer must be a pain. Imagine if I was cRPG balancer. I'll try to nerf curved weapons because they are easy peasy and what would happen? Well since Katana is on that list, Thomek would call his buddy Florian and say: Yo Florian, that douchebag Leshma nerfed my Katana and now me and my clan have to stop playing and drinking beer with you in the pubs of Vienna. Stop that please. chadz would say, no problemo Thomek. Dude's a turd, dunno why Tydeus suggested him in the first place. Or I try to nerf spamitar, and all of a sudden Hetman calls Cooties. Kurwa mac, Nessaj! Spamitar bad, very bad. Injustice. So Cooties, being owner of cRPG and stuff kicks me hard in the butt and spamitar is again safe from any attempt to balance the damn thing.

Not to mention whole community cursing, $@#*&*$ Leshma, nerfed my ??? &#@W&#(*@!1!!! I don't know how you and Paul live with it, tbh.

I like reading this, please type more
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Apsod on January 02, 2014, 04:38:57 am
Quote from: Tydeus on January 01, 2014, 05:15:37 pm
<Tydeus> Dear chadz, please grant the cRPG community 1 additional item balancer
<chadz_> bring me one :P

To the future of crpg!
Don't really feel like promoting myself, but oh well. Recently some things have happend giving me a lot of free time and I'd love to spend some of this free time helping out with the item balance in cRPG. Here is the application I posted earlier.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Panos_ on January 02, 2014, 09:13:35 am
^ Nice application, lets say you make it to the balancing team, what do you have in mind?
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Paul on January 02, 2014, 09:34:37 am
Just take Dave or xbows really gonna get nerfed.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Erzengel on January 02, 2014, 11:21:51 am
Quote from: jack786 on January 01, 2014, 10:47:39 pm
What? give archers more power in melee??/ Total bullshit. These days I have seen ton of archers with scotish and italian one handed swords defeating many knights in melee after they get close. One thing that should be nerfed is archers in melee. They can stay like they are right now-very strong and with high accuracy in ranged, but they shouldn have enough points to fight good in melee. Its so annoying if you finally manage to get somehow close to archers, and then get beaten by them also in melee...

Uhm, you know how old this suggestion is?  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Ronin on January 02, 2014, 11:23:50 am
Apsod has my vote, because he is (or was) also a mod developer. His mod was about peasant fights which I always wanted to play but couldn't get to work, it always seemed like a very good idea. I have faith in him that he knows balancing classes around both fun factor and effectivity are both very important. What he writes, also confirm that. Plus, I completely agree with the rest of his ideas.

I think he deserves to be an item balancer, even if the community don't deserve him that much.

Edit: Please retract my application.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Apsod on January 02, 2014, 12:34:50 pm
Quote from: Panos_the_Bear on January 02, 2014, 09:13:35 am
^ Nice application, lets say you make it to the balancing team, what do you have in mind?
There are a few different things I'd like to look into.


There are more things I'd like to change, but these are some examples. Feel free to ask questions behind each of these changes and I'll explain more in depth.

(click to show/hide)
Thank you for the kind words Ronin! Nice to see that you remember my mod even though it was many years ago. :)
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Leshma on January 02, 2014, 12:49:34 pm
Quote
Increasing accuracy and decreasing missile speed for all bows to make archery more skill-based.

Big bows already have poor missile speed. Further reducing missile speed of Longbow would mean it can't hit anything at long range. You can't buff bow accuracy stat, I mean you can but that won't solve anything.

Because accuracy or precision is determined by pd, wpf, missile speed, accuracy stat, draw speed and damage. All those factors are in play. Also you need to know that crosshair in 3rd person mode is off. Getting used to it is enough skill based combined with low missile speeds.

Basically, by posting quoted you have shown us that you know very little about archery, less than me who only played two gens of lolarchery in last 12 months (but still more than Tydeus and Paul combined).

What we really need is to sack current inactive balancers (Paul, Tydeus and Fasader/Jacko) and introduce a team of active and dedicated players for each class. And let them buff their classes as much they want, but restricting them to change classes they don't play. That way, this mod would again become fun because everything would be deadly.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Bulzur on January 02, 2014, 01:04:16 pm
I'm also quite interested in Apsod's application.

But seriously, decreasing missile speed for bows is actually going to make archery more luck based, than skill based.
Poorer missile speed means less range, and to compensate for this, wider arc (aiming higher), and so, very easy to dodge. After shooting your arrow, you'll just have to pray for 5second that your target doesn't move, or moves in the direction you want to, for the amount of feet you guessed, to actually hit. Wich will just be pure luck. Increasing your accuracy won't mean that much, since a lot of other criteria influence it, whereas there's only PD for missile speed (if i'm not mistaken).

At this precise moment, my main concern with archery is the greater missile speed for low tier bows. Since they're already more accurate, and we have a huge damage boost for headshots, it's actually "more" viable to go around with a cheap nomad bow, than with a rus bow. Wich doesn't make any sense, price wise.

I thought price were supposed to reflect the effectiveness of the weapon, wich doesn't really work with archery (only bodkin arrows being way more expensive than tatar makes sense).
Wich was also why i really hate the rondel+shield builds (and now long dagger+shield), since it's very cheap (close to leeching cost) and yet very effective.



Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Apsod on January 02, 2014, 01:12:11 pm
Quote from: Leshma on January 02, 2014, 12:49:34 pm
Big bows already have poor missile speed. Further reducing missile speed of Longbow would mean it can't hit anything at long range. You can't buff bow accuracy stat, I mean you can but that won't solve anything.

Because accuracy or precision is determined by pd, wpf, missile speed, accuracy stat, draw speed and damage. All those factors are in play. Also you need to know that crosshair in 3rd person mode is off. Getting used to it is enough skill based combined with low missile speeds.

Basically, by posting quoted you have shown us that you know very little about archery, less than me who only played two gens of lolarchery in last 12 months (but still more than Tydeus and Paul combined).

What we really need is to sack current inactive balancers (Paul, Tydeus and Fasader/Jacko) and introduce a team of active and dedicated players for each class. And let them buff their classes as much they want, but restricting them to change classes they don't play. That way, this mod would again become fun because everything would be deadly.
While I said "for all bows", I meant mostly for the weaker bows with way too high missile speed. Keep in mind that I said look into. I'd like to explore the possibility of making archery more skill-based through reducing their missile speed and having them be more accurate. This is one of my more controversial suggestions and I am not sure if it would actually work out. I got the idea from Zlisch(iirc) a while back and I liked the idea.

Also, accuracy as in the size of the crosshair is not affected by missile speed or draw speed. The fact that the crosshair is off in 3rd person mode doesn't really take a long time getting used too.

Quote from: Bulzur on January 02, 2014, 01:04:16 pm
But seriously, decreasing missile speed for bows is actually going to make archery more luck based, than skill based.
Poorer missile speed means less range, and to compensate for this, wider arc (aiming higher), and so, very easy to dodge. After shooting your arrow, you'll just have to pray for 5second that your target doesn't move, or moves in the direction you want to, for the amount of feet you guessed, to actually hit. Wich will just be pure luck. Increasing your accuracy won't mean that much, since a lot of other criteria influence it, whereas there's only PD for missile speed (if i'm not mistaken).
The way I see it is this. You would have to calculate better when shooting at a target far away or a target running sideways from you. It would be more about timing your shoots correctly and knowing how high to aim. If you manage to get under control the increased accuracy would let you become very effective because of the lack of randomness.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Panos_ on January 02, 2014, 01:13:38 pm
Ok it is done, Dave & Apsod for the balance team

Zagibu for texturer  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Algarn on January 02, 2014, 01:20:49 pm
Quote from: Apsod on January 02, 2014, 01:12:11 pm
While I said "for all bows", I meant mostly for the weaker bows with way too high missile speed. Keep in mind that I said look into. I'd like to explore the possibility of making archery more skill-based through reducing their missile speed and having them be more accurate. This is one of my more controversial suggestions and I am not sure if it would actually work out. I got the idea from Zlisch(iirc) a while back and I liked the idea.

Also, accuracy as in the size of the crosshair is not affected by missile speed or draw speed. The fact that the crosshair is off in 3rd person mode doesn't really take a long time getting used too.

Yes, but people would be able to cheat to get crosshairs. Furthermore ... Bows from Nomad bow until Yumi ARE accurate. Give more missile speed to long and rus bow (also reduce accuracy by 1 since the last patch given 1), and reduce the missile speed to those nomad bows. If you do that, to make the re balance more effective, reverse the patch that advantages from looms, if you want to be archer without looms, without a single gen as archer, then, go fuck yourself, and see all your arrows bounce on 60+ body armor if they already reach the target. It would prevent trolls that pick up their STF and play archer/HA.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Leshma on January 02, 2014, 01:25:52 pm
Quote from: Apsod on January 02, 2014, 01:12:11 pm
I got the idea from Zlisch(iirc) a while back and I liked the idea.

Apsod, you have my support. But please, never ever again mention something like that publicly. Because if people get the impression that Zlisch has any influence on you, there is no way they are going to continue to support you :wink:

Also balancing isn't all about stats (my opinion). For past 3 years they are balancing between realism (restrictions) and fun. My personal opinion is that at current stage, cRPG should go for fun and ignore realism. That is the only way to get back those high numbers on servers.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Apsod on January 02, 2014, 01:29:22 pm
Quote from: Algarn on January 02, 2014, 01:20:49 pm
Yes, but people would be able to cheat to get crosshairs. Furthermore ... Bows from Nomad bow until Yumi ARE accurate. Give more missile speed to long and rus bow (also reduce accuracy by 1 since the last patch given 1), and reduce the missile speed to those nomad bows. If you do that, to make the re balance more effective, reverse the patch that advantages from looms, if you want to be archer without looms, without a single gen as archer, then, go fuck yourself, and see all your arrows bounce on 60+ body armor if they already reach the target. It would prevent trolls that pick up their STF and play archer/HA.
Damage or speed buffs could be given to compensate for the lower missile speed for bows that already have pinpoint accuracy.

Quote from: Leshma on January 02, 2014, 01:25:52 pm
Apsod, you have my support. But please, never ever again mention something like that publicly. Because if people get the impression that Zlisch has any influence on you, there is no way they are going to continue to support you :wink:
I give credit where credit is due.
Quote
Also balancing isn't all about stats (my opinion). For past 3 years they are balancing between realism (restrictions) and fun. My personal opinion is that at current stage, cRPG should go for fun and ignore realism. That is the only way to get back those high numbers on servers.
I am all for fun instead of realism, though a nice balance is needed.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Algarn on January 02, 2014, 01:31:17 pm
And it gonna buff horse archers, aka current pain in EU 1. More buffs/nerfs = more tears ... (I wish you god luck, because trying to balance this game is called madness  :lol:)
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Kafein on January 02, 2014, 01:34:53 pm
Reducing missile speed and increasing accuracy is my idea, so you have my support for that :P Also, this is not about internal bow balance, even though it is fucked up. It's the current average missile speed that is a problem, not that fact that alternative bows are slower.

However

Quote from: Apsod on January 02, 2014, 12:34:50 pm
  • Increasing Two Handed Sword cut and thrust damage by 1.
  • Increasing Great Long Bardiche cut damage by 2 and decreasing its speed by 1.
  • Increasing the thrust damage on Great Long Axe and Long War Axe by 1.

No. Or maybe yes, if for example all LWA and GLB type weapons get a serious speed nerf, not just 1. And more importantly, all melee weapons get a damage buff, no just a select few (I don't know how you chose, but those don't really need it).
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Apsod on January 02, 2014, 01:40:20 pm
Quote from: Algarn on January 02, 2014, 01:31:17 pm
And it gonna buff horse archers, aka current pain in EU 1. More buffs/nerfs = more tears ... (I wish you god luck, because trying to balance this game is called madness  :lol:)
Yeah about HA and HX. I had this idea of adding new arrows and bolts for horse ranged and giving the old arrows and bolts the "unusable on horseback" tag. These new arrows and bolts would have less ammo so that horse ranged would not be able to kite for ages like they can now. Not sure if this counts as "Item balancing", but imo its an idea worth considering.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Apsod on January 02, 2014, 01:56:00 pm
Quote from: Kafein on January 02, 2014, 01:34:53 pm
No. Or maybe yes, if for example all LWA and GLB type weapons get a serious speed nerf, not just 1. And more importantly, all melee weapons get a damage buff, no just a select few (I don't know how you chose, but those don't really need it).
The reason for the changes to the GLB was because I felt that 46 cut was too little damage for it and a 1 point increase would still be too little, but increasing its damage by 2 without a nerf would be too extreme so 1 speed less seemed fair to me.

The increased thrust damage on GLA and LWA was to make them more balanced with the Long Axe. I feel that it is a fair buff.
 
The Two Handed Sword definitely needs a buff imo. Compare it to the Long Sword and then to the Great Sword and then you'll see that it hardly fits in with its current stats.

But yeah, I agree that more weapons needs to have their stats changed. I just decided to mention a few weapon that I could think of at the top of my head as examples for my thinking. I am not 100% sure about the changes to the GLA, GLB and LWA since I haven't looked too much into those yet.


Edit: Sorry for double posting. Didn't even notice until it was too late.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Ronin on January 02, 2014, 02:09:14 pm
Apsod it's nice to see you planning your work already man, but let me tell you a thing. Great long axe thrust damage might not need a buff, before deciding that I'd suggest you to see how experienced polearm axe users use it. I dueled tor yesterday and his thrusts were so instant, and were mostly followed by a kick. If I was like 0,1 second late I would have been kicked after getting hit by that thrust, a thrust that was nearly unblockable. The thrust attack, is of course, not faster than an awlpike; however awlpike has 1 fast and 1 slow attack directions; while long axes are fairly potent in 4 directions. When fighting an awlipke user you can simply anticipate as if your opponent is going to use a thrust attack and only change your block if they try an overhead. In long axes, you have to watch out for 3 fast and 1 very fast attacking directions.

Long axe users, use it as more of an interruption move; which is fairly useful at their work. If the thrust damage is to be increased, it will hurt a bit more.

Just my 2 cents.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Huscarlton_Banks on January 02, 2014, 02:22:25 pm
I'm not sure you can disable certain ammo on horseback without scripts/triggers that force the ammo to be dropped.

Make long axe do blunt damage on the thrust or adjust the model.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Algarn on January 02, 2014, 02:22:54 pm
Well, it wouldn't be so OP as rondel daggers + shield before the patches that nerfed it  :P
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Apsod on January 02, 2014, 02:24:20 pm
Quote from: Ronin on January 02, 2014, 02:09:14 pm
Apsod it's nice to see you planning your work already man, but let me tell you a thing. Great long axe thrust damage might not need a buff, before deciding that I'd suggest you to see how experienced polearm axes use it. I dueled them tor and his thrusts were so instant, and were mostly followed by a kick. If I was like 0,1 second late I would have been kicked after getting hit by the thrust, a thrust that was nearly unblockable. It is of course, not faster than an awlpike; however awlpike has 1 fast and 1 slow attack; while long axes are fairly omnipotent in 4 directions, it is harder to guess.

Long axe users, use it as more of an interruption move; which is fairly useful at their work. If the thrust damage is to be increased, it will hurt a bit more.

Just my 2 cents.
Yeah, the thrust was never meant to be anything but an interruption move like you said, though buffing the stab to 17 wont change that. Not sure what you mean by his thrusts being instant. The GLA which Tor uses is not fast at all, though it is faster than an awlpike. Awlpike has 90 speed while GLA has 91.

But like I said before, I am not completely sure about the changes to the GLA, LWA and GLB. I just felt that the Long Axe was a bit too good compared to the GLA and LWA and buffing the swing damage didn't feel right.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Ronin on January 02, 2014, 02:39:23 pm
Well by instant, I mean it connects very early and require inhuman reflexes to block. For example:

When duelling with an awlpiker, you can simply block downwards without much though and only change it when your opponent uses an overhead

The same strategy can not be applied to a Long Axe users (any type of it), you always have to watch out for 4 attack directions. While the thrust does way less damage, it is much harder to block. Because:
1-It is faster than an awlpike
2-Long axes are shorter, which is an advantage here as it can be used on close range
3-You are not only waiting for your opponent to use a thrust attack, you have 3 more attack directions to watch out.

It almost always does 1-2 damage but interrupts you because of the type of damage (blunt). Maybe buffing it is not a really great idea. I think it is fairly good at it's role. I don't know how much damage difference 1 blunt damage would. If it influences a bit too much it might be too abusive for duels. Slowly hurting your opponent doesn't sound like a bad strategy among strong duellists.

Besides, the normal long axe does cut damage on thrust; so maybe lowering it by 1 would be a better idea if the balance is off. I think 1 blunt does more influence than 1 cut damage.

This is just my opinion. I don't really know if it is going to be good or not, but it is worth to be a bit careful before making any changes. Numbers do not always show the whole picture. All in all, I really suggest you to duel with tor before doing anything.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Rumblood on January 02, 2014, 02:45:20 pm
This is an application thread. If you aren't applying or commenting on an application, go to the suggestions and balance forums.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Apsod on January 02, 2014, 02:59:05 pm
Quote from: Rumblood on January 02, 2014, 02:45:20 pm
This is an application thread. If you aren't applying or commenting on an application, go to the suggestions and balance forums.
I know, but I got asked questions concering my thinking when it comes to balancing so I sort of had to answer.
Quote from: Ronin on January 02, 2014, 02:39:23 pm
This is just my opinion. I don't really know if it is going to be good or not, but it is worth to be a bit careful before making any changes. Numbers do not always show the whole picture. All in all, I really suggest you to duel with tor before doing anything.
Yeah these changes would have to be discussed between the balance team before making into the game of course. Also, I have dueled Tor and he is damn good, but I doubt it is the GLA that makes him OP.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: jack786 on January 02, 2014, 03:07:46 pm
*Nerf awlpikes that can randomly kill you one hit or two hits even for full heavy gears.
*Nerf those very fast spammy steel picks
*Make archers less dangerous in melee combat!
*Less accuracy for HA
*I myself know that its fun to kill people very quick with 2handed thrusts, but why they can hit harder than actual spears and pikes?
*Reduce throwing thing damage. Throwing Lance can take down almost any horse, and the other throwing shits do more damage than any archer. What I have seen is that people make character with random ugly face, dress in clothes and make fast agility character and just randomly kill knights with those throwing things.
*If you want to keep more new people, give new players some kind of reward, that would make them stay in game, and not die all time as peasants as they start to play game.
*Make strategus battles available to noobs, so its not only for friends and high lv elite players
*Nerf 1h cav, so it cannot bumb and hit kill most of players, medium and heavy.

***AND MOST IMPORTANT! Why you don't add new maps for battle? Is it really that hard and long to place objects and spawn points on map to make new maps? I have made several maps for Native mod. I don't see how its hard to make new maps. We have been playing the same damn old boring, well know maps for years.. This sucks
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Ronin on January 02, 2014, 03:08:46 pm
Quote from: jack786 on January 02, 2014, 03:07:46 pm
*Nerf awlpikes that can randomly kill you one hit or two hits even for full heavy gears.
*Nerf those very fast spammy steel picks
*Make archers less dangerous in melee combat!
*Less accuracy for HA
*I myself know that its fun to kill people very quick with 2handed thrusts, but why they can hit harder than actual spears and pikes?
*Reduce throwing thing damage. Throwing Lance can take down almost any horse, and the other throwing shits do more damage than any archer. What I have seen is that people make character with random ugly face, dress in clothes and make fast agility character and just randomly kill knights with those throwing things.
*If you want to keep more new people, give new players some kind of reward, that would make them stay in game, and not die all time as peasants as they start to play game.
*Make strategus battles available to noobs, so its not only for friends and high lv elite players

***AND MOST IMPORTANT! Why you don't add new maps for battle? Is it really that hard and long to place objects and spawn points on map to make new maps? I have made several maps for Native mod. I don't see how its hard to make new maps. We have been playing the same damn old boring, well know maps for years.. This sucks
[Applications] Item balancers
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Kafein on January 02, 2014, 03:14:00 pm
Quote from: Apsod on January 02, 2014, 02:24:20 pm
Yeah, the thrust was never meant to be anything but an interruption move like you said, though buffing the stab to 17 wont change that. Not sure what you mean by his thrusts being instant. The GLA which Tor uses is not fast at all, though it is faster than an awlpike. Awlpike has 90 speed while GLA has 91.

But like I said before, I am not completely sure about the changes to the GLA, LWA and GLB. I just felt that the Long Axe was a bit too good compared to the GLA and LWA and buffing the swing damage didn't feel right.

Just one last thing, in my opinion the long axe is a little bit too good compared to GLA and LWA, but I'd rather nerf the LA. The spathovaklion is a little bit too good compared to other 1h maces, and you say you would nerf it, so why not apply the same reasoning to polearms ?
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Tyr_ on January 02, 2014, 03:17:32 pm
I am not as much interested as I used to be, but still some Ideas I have:

- Fix bows:

Longbow should have the fastest missile speed, Short Bow the slowest, current balance is stupid. Though leave the Longbow at 40, maybe increase it to 41/42, and afterwards scale all missile speeds with this so Longbow stays the one with the highest. Weapon speed just the other way around, Short bow the fastest, Long Bow the slowest.

Because of HA balance Yumi should get a slightly higher missile speed than Hornbow, while Hornbow gets the faster reload speed.

Alternative: Reduce the amount of Arrows per stack by ~30% (loomed arrows will get very useful again), remove pierce damage from Bodkin Arrows and give the Longbow back its pierce damage as it used to be  :arrow: The more arrows you want to carry with you/shot the cheaper arrows you need to use, so you do less damage. To do high damage you want bodkins, which will have 10 arrows per stack at +0. Moreover Longbow will be the only bow with pierce damage, meaning that it will be very effective against plate armor, but due to its high reload time it will be a waste to shot peasants, cheaper & faster bows will be suited for this job.

Bodkins should be at 9 or 10 cut dmg.


- Xbows:

Make Arbalest 3 Slot. Arbalesters will keep the ability to 1 shot targets, but lose their melee capability because they are limited to 0 slot weapons. This will give the Heavy Crossbow a place aswell. It can 2 shot targets on the body and 1 shot on headshots like the Arbalests, but you will be able to carry a better melee weapon with you, therefore this will just increase the learning curve for Xbowers, and once they manage to do enough headshots there won't be much of a difference in using Arbalest or Heavy Crossbows for them.


- Daggers:

Increase the damage of Daggers slightly, but remove the ability to use a Dagger with a Shield. There always used to be ppl using Daggers as weapon, but most of them needed a bit skill in order to chamber attacks. Now there is too many running around with a Dagger/Shield which makes it way too easy to use.
When you cannot use a Shield anymore there should be no problem in buffing the Daggers damage, because then ppl will have to start chambering again if they want to do more than quick backstabbing.


- Horse Ranged:

When the pierce damage goes to the Longbow only few HA's will be able to do decent against tincans (landing headshots still does damage if you use Arrows and Horn Bow, but only the good ones can do that). Therefore Horse Xbowers should be the ones focusing the heavy armored opponents and leave light targets to HA's.
HX needs to be balanced with the HAs. The heavies Combo Horsearchers can use will be Yumi and bodkins (which should have about 9-10 cut dmg), making less damage than Light xbow + Steel bolts (the missile speed makes a huge difference), even against light armored targets. Light Crossbows must either get their reload speed increased by ~30% or lose the same amount of damage. Reducing the Damage will reduce their effictivity against light armored targets aswell, so it would make more sense to reduce the reload speed which leads to the same situation the Longbow users will have: it is not worth their time to shot a peasant while they could be shoting a tincan.
They will still do more damage against heavy armored targets thanks to their pierce damage, but won't be as effective against light/medium as Horsearchers.


- Cav:

Lancers are fine imo, if the ride around on Arabian Warhorses they are very annoying, but can be countered by downblocking. 1h cav needs to get nerfed. The swords damage scales way too much with your movement speed, enabling 1h cav to everything except for Str crutching tincans if they land a proper hit on the head. Just reduce the bonus damage they get from their movement speed on horse by a third, light armored targets (aka Archers) will still die from a hit to the head, but melee will survive.


- 2h swords:

Nodachi:                      43 Cut, 91 Speed, 122 Length
Miaodao:                     42 Cut, 96 Speed, 115 Length
Highland Claymore:     43 Cut, 92 Speed, 117 Length

Really, do this 7 points in length and 1 point in damage compensate for the 5 less in speed the Nodachi has compared to Miaodao? Or having 5 length more than the Highland Claymore, but who cares, Claymore can stab which will outreach Nodachi anytime. It can stun 1hers with an overhead, but the Claymore can do the same with .5 weight less while being cheaper and superior. Nodachi should get like 1 or 2 points more in damage.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Byrdi on January 02, 2014, 03:56:07 pm
Quote from: Tyr_ on January 02, 2014, 03:17:32 pm
Nodachi:                      43 Cut, 91 Speed, 122 Length
Miaodao:                     42 Cut, 96 Speed, 115 Length
Highland Claymore:     43 Cut, 92 Speed, 117 Length

Really, do this 7 points in length and 1 point in damage compensate for the 5 less in speed the Nodachi has compared to Miaodao? Or having 5 length more than the Highland Claymore, but who cares, Claymore can stab which will outreach Nodachi anytime. It can stun 1hers with an overhead, but the Claymore can do the same with .5 weight less while being cheaper and superior. Nodachi should get like 1 or 2 points more in damage.

Don't forget that Nodachi weights a lot more than the other weapons (0.5 kg is a lot in terms of stun potential) therefore you can easily stun most weapons with the same speed. Resulting in a quite fast follow up attack.
There is a point to what you are saying though, but increasing the speed by more than one should make it too good for STR based spam.

Also: my application is still valid. :D
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Rumblood on January 02, 2014, 07:30:00 pm
Quote from: Apsod on January 02, 2014, 02:59:05 pm
I know, but I got asked questions concering my thinking when it comes to balancing so I sort of had to answer.Yeah these changes would have to be discussed between the balance team before making into the game of course. Also, I have dueled Tor and he is damn good, but I doubt it is the GLA that makes him OP.

That's fine. Just make a response in the balance forums and place a link here to respond. This should be a thread where we can review applications and respond to those without needing to wade through pages of manifesto's like Tyr's to find them.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: BlueKnight on January 02, 2014, 08:31:04 pm
Quote from: Tydeus on January 01, 2014, 05:15:37 pm
<Tydeus> Dear chadz, please grant the cRPG community 1 additional item balancer
<chadz_> bring me one :P

To the future of crpg!

(click to show/hide)

No, but seriously:
I say you pick a few people and have them on a trial period (2 weeks or sth) so that they have to consult their 'good' ideas with you and if you like something, you just add it, or consult it with the overlords.

It's like you can never say by his post on the forum if he's going to improve the mod but if you picked 10 you'd get more good ideas then if you picked 1. Picking 20 would be too much for 1 person (you) to control but I guess that from those few that were chosen, after some time you could select with who to "renew the contract" and work with him/them for another 2 weeks or month or permanently.

Also, please state if the people that you are looking for have to have any special editing or modding skeelz.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Tydeus on January 02, 2014, 08:43:10 pm
Quote from: BlueKnight on January 02, 2014, 08:31:04 pm
(click to show/hide)

No, but seriously:
I say you pick a few people and have them on a trial period (2 weeks or sth) so that they have to consult their 'good' ideas with you and if you like something, you just add it, or consult it with the overlords.

It's like you can never say by his post on the forum if he's going to improve the mod but if you picked 10 you'd get more good ideas then if you picked 1. Picking 20 would be too much for 1 person (you) to control but I guess that from those few that were chosen, after some time you could select with who to "renew the contract" and work with him/them for another 2 weeks or month or permanently.

Also, please state if the people that you are looking for have to have any special editing or modding skeelz.
That's basically what was decided on, I just didn't update my post. We've picked out a few people so far, but we're still trying to decide on a few others. There's no ETA on this, so if you didn't apply in the past, you can still go ahead and do so now.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: BlueKnight on January 02, 2014, 08:58:21 pm
Quote from: Tydeus on January 02, 2014, 08:43:10 pm
That's basically what was decided on, I just didn't update my post. We've picked out a few people so far, but we're still trying to decide on a few others. There's no ETA on this, so if you didn't apply in the past, you can still go ahead and do so now.
Well, I am going to apply then!

I'd happily talk about str req of crossbows. As Spiderman once said: 'With great power comes great strength! HUE HUE'
But then chadz would have to allow for another free respec which is probably not an option. On the other hand if it is an option, the sooner the better. After all, free respec has been given to everyone recently so the 2nd one wouldn't affect the game as much as the 1st one.

Also this:
Quote from: BlueKnight on January 02, 2014, 08:31:04 pm
5. Arrows&bolts shouldn't destroy the shields as effectively as they do now.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Gurnisson on January 02, 2014, 11:14:31 pm
I'll throw my hat in the ring as well. Been playing a long time, still relatively active and have played quite a lot with all classes, and the different weapons within those. I have formed opinions about the strength and weaknesses of said classes/weapons over the course these years. I'd gladly help if I can.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Panos_ on January 02, 2014, 11:18:05 pm
Quote from: Gurnisson on January 02, 2014, 11:14:31 pm
I'll throw my hat in the ring as well. Been playing a long time, still relatively active and have played quite a lot with all classes, and the different weapons within those. I have formed opinions about the strength and weaknesses of said classes/weapons over the course these years. I'd gladly help if I can.

Can you tell us some changes you have in mind please??
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: BlueKnight on January 03, 2014, 12:27:15 am
Quote from: Panos_the_Bear on January 02, 2014, 11:18:05 pm
Can you tell us some changes you have in mind please??
How dare you!

Gurni is the best horse-crossbowman ever and his experience in all classes is truly rich!

As far as I know, Gurni would change something about HX.

He'd be great for this.

Also he's a Nord! He's perfect for high position  :wink:
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: TugBoat on January 03, 2014, 12:31:54 am
I have played gens as 1h+shield, 2hander, polearm, cav and archer to success (minus cav. I suck at cav). I have strong opinions about certain 1handed weapons both in favor of buffing some and nerfing some aspects of others. I dunno if you need any extra 1h help but I'd be happy to give my thoughts on that.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: stickher on January 09, 2014, 07:19:35 am
i wouldn't mind to join that group of people. i am unbias and play very actively for a year and a half both battle and strat. also play every build.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: spiritus on January 09, 2014, 09:06:30 am
I would love to help balance items in this game and i have put a couple ok-ish posts up about balance but that was mainly before i understood everything but now i think i could really help balance items or at least if i could be heard that would be wonderful. One thing i hate is that when some item is balanced around another item when it should be balanced in general around every item in it's class.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: bagge on January 09, 2014, 09:07:01 am
I'd settle with anyone except for a melee biased player doing archery changes. Please don't do that
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Templar_Steevee on January 09, 2014, 09:30:24 am
Quote from: bagge on January 09, 2014, 09:07:01 am
I'd settle with anyone except for a melee biased player doing archery changes. Please don't do that

I can sacefice myself and help with bows (then need changes in internal ballance) :)
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Molly on January 09, 2014, 09:36:33 am
I'd suggest someone from EU who's actually playing this mod right now. Not some oldmy old friend who barely hops onto the server once a week...

2 reasons: someone from NA lacks the experience of the EU battle and an oldmy old friend who has been barely playing for months may have experience from the "old days" but with not the current situation.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Templar_Steevee on January 09, 2014, 11:09:01 am
hmmm...

I'm active player playing mostly on EU1 and i know something about that game (over 2 years of experience)
I think I can give some resonable ideas and help in ballancing items, but there is a question is there anyone who would like to listen to me just a bit, because it looks like noone from item unbalancers are reading my posts and answering them.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Lethwin Far Seeker on January 09, 2014, 11:34:24 am
Applying for item balancer.
I think the state of item balance is in decent shape but needs fine tuning and polishing in some areas.

The primary reason I am promoting my self for this job is because I would search out the view of the playing (active) community before making changes.  While I am not advocating total democracy, I would certainly make use of polls and teamspeak communication to get an understanding of the full spectrum of player experience to better enable me in my item balancing decisions.

Here are some other reasons:

I am quite active.  Duh.

I am a longstanding member of this community.  I have been around since the age of ladderpulting and beheld the renowned Boulder on a Stick, Sword of Cookies\Tears, etc.  I also participated through the betas of Warband and the original Mount & Blade.

I have played multiple gens of every class (both STR and AGI variants) and am reputed for having more alts (which I regularly retire with) than one rightly should.  That includes archery, 2h, 1h, pole, thrower, hybrids etc etc etc, every class.

I understand and am immersed with medieval weaponry.  I am a practitioner of Historical European Martial Arts and regularly practice with equipment such as chain mail, long swords, arming swords, gambesons round shields, bucklers, you get the idea.  This does not mean I am ignorant of the need for game balance over some elements of realism, but simply that I am aware of the real life properties of many of the things we use in cRPG.


Here are some item balance issues that I would like looked at:
Note that if you happen to disagree with me, that doesn't mean you should disapprove of me doing this job because as I already stated, I wouldn't enforce any changes without checking on how the playing community felt about the issue.  That means you!

Within the archery community there seems to be primarily longbow users and nomad bow users.  The Rus, Horn, and Tatar bow need their own niche and appeal. 

The armor on upper tier horses (excluding plated charger) does not seem to be justly reflected in the statistics.  In general the higher tier horses seem to die too easily and certainly don't reflect their monetary cost.

The overall effectiveness of the hand and a half swords give little reason for infantry to make use of the great swords. 

I believe that sums it up.  If you have any questions I can be contacted via pm on the forums or on steam-  lethwin_far_seeker

Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Strudog on January 09, 2014, 01:13:14 pm
I for one would vote for stevee, one the best archers and knows what he is talking about, but would only be there for archery purposes
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Snufalufagus on January 09, 2014, 10:41:25 pm
Buff stabs more. No need for balancers.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Leshma on January 09, 2014, 11:02:03 pm
Quote from: Lethwin Far Seeker on January 09, 2014, 11:34:24 am
The armor on upper tier horses (excluding plated charger) does not seem to be justly reflected in the statistics.  In general the higher tier horses seem to die too easily and certainly don't reflect their monetary cost.

Denied.

For someone playing so long you should know that upkeep is just a word for most veterans these days. Also, those high tier horses are quite deadly in groups. Just because few still use them on public battle, doesn't mean they suck balls. Try Strategus battle sometimes, and you'll learn to hate heavy cavalry.

Seriously, anyone who plans to balance cRPG based on gear cost in year 2014. should pull of his application because we really don't need more of those kind of balancers.

I supported Gurnisson's application because he knows stuff, but he's also archer hater who rarely if ever played the class. Bagge would be better choice, because I know how long he played cav and pretty much everything else. Also Cooties is fine choice, but he's quite busy I bet. Also Karasu could be excellent balancer, he's mature, calm, doing fine work as admin and has a lot of gens of every class.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Gurnisson on January 09, 2014, 11:30:56 pm
Quote from: Leshma on January 09, 2014, 11:02:03 pm
I supported Gurnisson's application because he knows stuff, but he's also archer hater who rarely if ever played the class.

I might've played with polearms more (barely, if it even is the case), but archery must be at least my second most played class :lol:
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Tydeus on January 09, 2014, 11:46:01 pm
Quote from: Leshma on January 09, 2014, 11:02:03 pm
I supported Gurnisson's application because he knows stuff, but he's also archer hater who rarely if ever played the class. Bagge would be better choice, because I know how long he played cav and pretty much everything else. Also Cooties is fine choice, but he's quite busy I bet. Also Karasu could be excellent balancer, he's mature, calm, doing fine work as admin and has a lot of gens of every class.
Don't you think we could use an "archer hater" in the balance team considering how much I've buffed archery?



I mean... I buffed archery, 'nuff said.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: BlueKnight on January 09, 2014, 11:48:51 pm
Quote from: Gurnisson on January 09, 2014, 11:30:56 pm
I might've played with polearms more (barely, if it even is the case), but archery must be at least my second most played class :lol:

And we let you into balancing?

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Leshma on January 10, 2014, 12:24:36 am
Quote from: Tydeus on January 09, 2014, 11:46:01 pm
Don't you think we could use an "archer hater" in the balance team considering how much I've buffed archery?



I mean... I buffed archery, 'nuff said.

Well, if you let another archer hater like yourself into balancing team, I bet most archers will really rage quit after next balancing session..

I'm biased and that's why I never apply for any of these positions, because I'm aware of my flaws. But some of you don't have the modesty to admit that.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Templar_Steevee on January 10, 2014, 01:48:42 pm
Applying for item balancer.

In what i can help: Archery (primary), but i'm also playing as a 1h and i played with every melee class.

I can say that i have huge experience in this game, and I'm an active member of this community

I can see points of view for lvl 30 char and hi lvls.

There should be some changes to few melee weapons, and there is need for remake internal ballance in bows (I have ideas how to do that withut hurting anyone too much)
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: bagge on January 10, 2014, 04:50:46 pm
I'll apply as well.

I have soon to be 3 years experience and I'm still active in the game. I've mainly played archery but I have great experience with other classes too, except for shield, throwing and HX,

I speak fluent english and swedish. I understand norwegian (except for Sieem fkng impossible to understand him).

My priorities would definitely be low tiers armors and low tier bows.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Molly on January 10, 2014, 04:55:28 pm
Quote from: Tydeus on January 09, 2014, 11:46:01 pm
Don't you think we could use an "archer hater" in the balance team considering how much I've buffed archery?



I mean... I buffed archery, 'nuff said.
Well, maybe it's time to let a reasonable and respected archer like Bagge or Steevee get their hands on Archery and bows. They actually know what they are talking about :wink:
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: the real god emperor on January 10, 2014, 05:04:52 pm
I would like to apply;

I played with all the classes in the game for a while , I know all their strengths and weaknesses . I have knowledge about game mechanics and I have 3 years of Warband experience , and nearly 2.5 years on cRPG. I am not the best player, but I am decent and experienced with high ping gameplay.I think two-handed weapons and bows needs balancing most.I never really had a high level character, but know the difference. I am Turkish, I have the worst accent you can ever hear , but I can understand and communicate in English well.

Kratos
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Shemaforash on January 10, 2014, 11:43:46 pm
I retract my application due to inactivity and loss of interest for cRPG at this moment :)
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: darmaster on January 11, 2014, 12:45:22 am
Quote from: Tydeus on May 29, 2013, 05:53:05 pm
<Shik> since tydeus is balance now
<Shik> i guess we finally have STFU okiN
<Shik> as our acronym

(click to show/hide)

Also, Item Balancers are not Devs.

now i realized why you kept using nord banner despite being an NA
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: BlueKnight on January 11, 2014, 12:59:40 am
Quote from: bagge on January 10, 2014, 04:50:46 pm
I'll apply as well.

I have soon to be 3 years experience and I'm still active in the game. I've mainly played archery but I have great experience with other classes too, except for shield, throwing and HX,

I speak fluent english and swedish. I understand norwegian (except for Sieem fkng impossible to understand him).

My priorities would definitely be low tiers armors and low tier bows.

BAGGEEEEEEEEEEEEEE YESSSSSSSSS!!!!!
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Leshma on January 11, 2014, 01:04:51 am
My Rus Bow is ready :lol:
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Tydeus on January 11, 2014, 01:09:57 am
Quote from: bagge on January 10, 2014, 04:50:46 pm
I'll apply as well.

I have soon to be 3 years experience and I'm still active in the game. I've mainly played archery but I have great experience with other classes too, except for shield, throwing and HX,

I speak fluent english and swedish. I understand norwegian (except for Sieem fkng impossible to understand him).

My priorities would definitely be low tiers armors and low tier bows.
Oh look it's another Nord applicant. Out of curiosity, what's your opinion on those low tier bows?
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: GOBBLINKINGREATLEADER on August 21, 2014, 08:26:28 pm
This is my crapplication. It's really long and boring so I tried to break it up a little bit. I don't blame you if you don't read it, I wouldn't read it either. There's probably a lot of blatantly wrong stuff in there, too. You'd be insane to read it. You don't want to be insane, do you?

If I were on the item balancing team I would like to have an advisory or weapon-making/tweaking position. I don't want to be a big boy in charge, just an advisor to help get the opinion of the community. If you're familiar with my posts you know I'm a fan of polls which indicates that community perception is very important in any work I do. I think I've recently indicated with my map making and events promoting (even though I haven't gotten to running actual events yet...) I've indicated that I have the ability and will to dedicate hours to constructive nerdwork for this game.

I am familiar with creating and tweaking item models in Warband. I also play cRPG nearly every day for at least 10-15 minutes (usually more) so I am very familiar with the ever-changing balance of cRPG and the fads. I'm obviously most familiar with 1h and cavalry, but I have also done generations of polearm, throwing, 2h (okay only once), and crossbow.

My current advice towards the agenda of the balancing team would be the following:

SYLLABUS OF NERDY STUFF I WROTE:

First and foremost we should try and come up with ways to encourage more hybridization of builds and move away from pure min-maxing as the only successful way to play. This will hopefully make the game more fun. Second we need to alter what I feel is the current metagame of agility builds that are very quick but can take hits because of heavy armor and still deal ridiculously huge damage (I feel this is worst with polearm). Third (and this is how you can know I am relatively unbiased right now) we need to change (nerf) cavalry.

POLEARM OP:

The NA and EU duel tournaments were both absolutely dominated by polearm players. I did math on the distribution of classes in the final/top 10 players of the NA tournament and 90% of players were polearm. This leads me to believe that polearms are too strong compared to 1h and 2h in melee only situations. So I would first look at some way of bringing these three classes into alignment.

Individual changes for polearm I would suggest are to give weapons such as the long axe, long hafted blade, long bardiche, etc, a slight nerf to damage or speed. The damage on these weapons when you include a speed bonus is devastating and in my opinion too strong. They hit harder than a steel pick from horseback full speed to the face. Those weapons are just off the top of my head so don't fault me if they're not perfectly sensible, they are just my impression of the most popular polearms right now.

STR-AGI BALANCE

I think the most effective thing we could do to bring more balance to the str-agi paradigm isn't to revert to the old days of 45-str owning battles. What we should do is increase the str requirements on armor and weapons so that players using primarily agility don't get all the same damage and defense that str players get. It might help to balance str with agi if we made ironflesh more of a useful skill so that agi players by nature aren't as tough as str players. The vast majority of good players I have asked for advice in this game have all told me "ironflesh is worthless, don't use it". So maybe a slight buff to ironflesh.

2H

As far as putting 2h into alignment with the other melee classes I won't pretend I know what to do. I've played it for one generation and I was not good. I would say polearm is stronger than 2h right now though.

1H:

For 1h I would like to see a comeback of non-sword items. I feel that the combined change of knockdown proc and stab buffs by Tydeus really changed the spread of 1hs you used to see in the server. These days on a 75 population server you're lucky to see a 1her using a pick or a mace at all. Swords have by far become the most popular and successful weapon (the only one that tops the scoreboards). I would like to see knockdown chance for 1hs closer to what it was a year ago so we might see people use weapons like the Iberian Mace again. Also maybe give the lesser picks a bit of love, like the fighting pick.

CROSSBOW

I'm not a very good crossbow or very familiar with it but the most famous players of the class have all told me personally that they feel their class was nerfed to the point where it's not even fun to play it anymore.

CHANGE WPF/THROWING ESPECIALLY:

The whole WPF-spread thing of shared WPF in melee classes was a cool change! Very cool! However, I think it could be improved a little bit. It feels like all it did was boost WPF for hoplites because honestly who the fuck plays 1h/2h or 2h/pole. I think we could help hybridize classes by letting some melee WPF spread into ranged class WPF. I.E. 1h or polearm WPF could spread into throwing WPF so throwers can hybridize into 1h/thrower (viking) or hoplite/thrower (roman guy). I would love to see throwing put into a stronger spot than where it is right now. Even the best players in NA have to struggle to get to the top of the scoreboard as a thrower. It's less accurate than crossbow/archery but it seems like a lot of the time it still does less damage even when the stars align and you finally hit. Give a slight buff to the higher throwing items damage across the board (throwing axes, spears, lances).

EDIT: I nearly forgot, nerf cavalry. First of all reduce bump damage a fair amount, if you have 0 IF it takes like 3 good horse bumps to kill you. Nobody should get free damage just for hitting you with a horse. Remove this whole paradigm of trying to say cavalry is balanced by its upkeep being so much higher--upkeep doesn't stop people from playing it to destroy players that are better than them. We need to bring cavalry in line with the other melee classes somehow. First of all nerf the EU playstyle of 1h cav with heavy horse, heavy armor, and arabian cavalry sword. We also need to nerf HA and the ability of its players to engage in fights where one player has no chance of success, where the HA can just delay until it gets valour. I say we make the penalty of armor to WPF stronger on horseback, and slow their draw speed with movement. I don't know. You guys figure this one out. I'm not that smart.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Gravoth_iii on August 21, 2014, 08:38:13 pm
A 2h won the tournament though, if you think polearms are stronger than 2h duelwise then you need to use 2h more. People who say ironflesh is useless are full of shit, most people overlook how insanely tanky you can be with 7 IF and plate.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: GOBBLINKINGREATLEADER on August 21, 2014, 08:41:52 pm
I'm just working with the information I know. That was how it turned out in NA.

I also think we need to make swashbuckler a more viable class, pull it up to the str of 2h and polearm. If there were some way to do that.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: vipere on August 21, 2014, 08:46:55 pm
Crossbow unplayable ?

Im not sure we are speaking about the same game
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: _Tak_ on August 21, 2014, 08:53:13 pm
Quote from: GOBBLIN KING GREAT LEADER on August 21, 2014, 08:26:28 pm


We also need to nerf HA and the ability of its players to engage in fights where one player has no chance of success, where the HA can just delay until it gets valour. I say we make the penalty of armor to WPF stronger on horseback, and slow their draw speed with movement. I don't know. You guys figure this one out. I'm not that smart.

As for HA i don't think Item balancers can do a thing about it since its game mechanics balance. Nerfing stats of bows = Nerfing archers as well. Nerfing HA won't do a thing to delay, they will still run around shooting people when flag still shows up. Even if you nerf them to hell they will still do that, its their nature.

Unless HA damage were nerfed to 1 dmg per shot, then they will all rage quit to play other games/ turn into melee peps.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: chesterotab on August 21, 2014, 09:04:42 pm
Quote from: GOBBLIN KING GREAT LEADER on August 21, 2014, 08:26:28 pm
I'm obviously most familiar with 1h and cavalry, but I have also done generations of polearm, throwing, 2h (okay only once), and crossbow.

stopped reading this crapplication right there. you have multiple generations of throwing and crossbow, but only 1 as a glorious 2 hand hero?
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: GOBBLINKINGREATLEADER on August 21, 2014, 09:07:09 pm
i cant help it i am a pleb, i shouldnt have even crapplied should i
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: San on August 21, 2014, 09:22:26 pm
I just think it will be more interesting with more advisors/balancers, at least with some people who can be active.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Strudog on August 21, 2014, 09:23:57 pm
Quote from: GOBBLIN KING GREAT LEADER on August 21, 2014, 08:41:52 pm
I'm just working with the information I know. That was how it turned out in NA.

I also think we need to make swashbuckler a more viable class, pull it up to the str of 2h and polearm. If there were some way to do that.

if you think Swashbuckling needs a buff, you must be insane. I currently play it now and its just as powerful as 2h and polearm. I actually prefer the 1h stab as an anti-cav weapon compared to the other two, it deals more dmg and on the odd occasion i have 1 hitted war horses. Plus you are able to carry two weapons rather than 1.

Currently i role with the side swaord and fighting axe.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on August 21, 2014, 09:44:22 pm
Quote from: GOBBLIN KING GREAT LEADER on August 21, 2014, 08:26:28 pm
This is my crapplication [...] I've indicated that I have the ability and will to defecate hours for this game.

I am familiar with creating and tweaking porcelain toilet models in Warband. I also take a shit nearly every day for at least 10-15 minutes (usually more) so I am very familiar with the ever-changing balance of poop and bathroom conditions. I'm obviously most familiar with constipation and wiping, but I have also done generations of diarrhea, cholera, anal sex (okay only once), and shaving butt-hair.

My current advice towards the agenda of the bathroom team would be the following:

SYLLABUS OF NERDY STUFF I WROTE:

First and foremost we should try and come up with ways to encourage more hybridization of wiping styles and move away from pure toilet paper orientation as the only successful way to play. This will hopefully make pooping more fun. Second we need to alter what I feel is the current metagame of eating lots of fiber that are very quick but can take shits because of heavy turds and still deal ridiculously huge damage (I feel this is worst with psyllium husks). Third (and this is how you can know I am relatively unbiased right now) we need to change (nerf) toilet plungers.

PLUNGER OP:

The NA and EU poop tournaments were both absolutely dominated by plunger users. I did math on the distribution of clogged toilets in the final/top 10 players of the NA tournament and 90% of players were plunger-havers. This leads me to believe that plungers are too strong compared to Draino and just using your foot to jam it in melee only situations. So I would first look at some way of bringing these three classes into alignment.

Individual changes for plunger I would suggest are to give models such as the bog brush, deluxe double ringed, long plunger, etc, a slight nerf to damage or speed. The damage on these plungers when you include a speed bonus is devastating and in my opinion too strong. They hit harder than a steel pick from horseback full speed to the face. Those weapons are just off the top of my head so don't fault me if they're not perfectly sensible, they are just my impression of the most popular plungers right now.

STR-AGI BALANCE

I think the most effective thing we could do to bring more balance to the str-agi paradigm isn't to revert to the old days of 45-str shitting trains, nigga. What we should do is increase the str requirements on lifting the seat and plungers so that players using primarily agility don't get all the same unclogging and defense that str players get. It might help to balance str with agi if we made ironflush more of a useful skill so that agi players by nature aren't as tough as str players. The vast majority of good players I have asked for advice in this game have all told me "ironflush is worthless, don't use it". So maybe a slight buff to ironflush.

#2

As far as putting #2 into alignment with the other bathroom classes I won't pretend I know what to do. I've pooped it for one generation and I was not good. I would say plungers is stronger than #2 right now though.

#1

For going #1 I would like to see a comeback of non-sword items. I feel that the combined change of knockdown proc and stab buffs by Tydeus really changed the spread of going #1 you used to see in the bathroom. These days on a 75 population public toilet you're lucky to see a #1er using a dick or urethra at all. Plungers have by far become the most popular and successful weapon (the only one tat tops the scoreboards). I would like to see knockdown chance for going #1 closer to what it was a year ago so we might see people use names for their dicks like "the Iberian Mace" again. Also maybe give the lesser dicks a bit of love, like the fighting dick.

CROSSDRESSING

I'm not a very good crossdresser or very familiar with it but the most famous players of the class have all told me personally that they feel their class was nerfed to the point where it's not even fun to play it anymore.

CHANGE WPF/POO THROWING ESPECIALLY:

The whole WPF-spread thing of shared WPF in melee classes was a cool change! Very cool! However, I think it could be improved a little bit. It feels like all it did was boost WPF for floor-shitters because honestly who the fuck plays #1/#2 or #2/plunger. I think we could help hybridize classes by letting some melee WPF spread into ranged class WPF. I.E. #1 or plunger WPF could spread into poo-throwing WPF so throwers can hybridize into #1/thrower ("viking") or floor-shitter/thrower (roman guy). I would love to see throwing put into a stronger spot than where it is right now. Even the best players in NA have to struggle to get to the top of the scoreboard as a shit flinger. It's less accurate than crossdressing/long distance pissing but it seems like a lot of the time it still does less damage even when the stars align and you finally shit. Give a slight buff to the higher throwing items damage across the board (chimp turds, gorilla chunks, elephant dung).

EDIT: I nearly forgot, nerf urinals. First of all reduce splashback damage a fair amount, if you have 0 IF it takes like 3 good piss stains to kill you. Nobody should get free damage just for hitting you with a splash of your own piss. Remove this whole paradigm of trying to say urinals are balanced by its rim being so much higher--rim hieght doesn't stop people from playing it to destroy pants that are better than theirs. We need to bring urinals in line with the other melee classes somehow. First of all nerf the EU playstyle of #1 in the urinal with heavy urinal cake, heavy dick size, and calling your dick "an arabian cavalry sword". We also need to nerf long distance pissers and the ability of its players to engage in fights where one player has no chance of success, where the longpisser can just delay until it gets valour. I say we make the penalty of armor to WPF stronger for long distance pissers, and slow their draw speed with movement. I don't know. You guys figure this one out. I'm not that smart.

(click to show/hide)

also i am 8 years old
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Tzar on August 21, 2014, 09:54:34 pm
Quote from: WITCHCRAFT on August 21, 2014, 09:44:22 pm
(click to show/hide)

also i am 8 years old

Epic reading, thank you very much fine sir!! Just brilliant!!  Plz write a book of your toilet adventures  :lol:
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: GOBBLINKINGREATLEADER on August 22, 2014, 12:58:48 am
Quote from: WITCHCRAFT on August 21, 2014, 09:44:22 pm
(click to show/hide)

also i am 8 years old

Wow thats the best shitpisspost I've read in quite some time.

Quote from: San on August 21, 2014, 09:22:26 pm
I just think it will be more interesting with more advisors/balancers, at least with some people who can be active.

Come on coach get me off the benches! Come on coach!
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Tojo on August 22, 2014, 02:37:31 am
I can balance things. I can easily balance an item such as a pencil on the tip of my finger. Also, I can balance up to 3 textbooks on my head. I can also balance my diet very well and go on a regular basis. With a little time I can even balance on two legs of a sturdy chair.

In order to balance crpg first you must create the universe... This game and specifically this mod is my favorite video game to play. The problem of balance seems to lie somewhere between being historically accurate and competitive melee game. I have played almost every build for multiple gens. The only class I have 0 experience with is HX.

here are some changes I would suggest.

-Pole arms can only stop horses at greater than 130 length

-low level shields have more resistance to axes, they break too easily

-long hafted blade either has a decease in thrust pierce dmg or thrust changed to cut dmg.

-make pole arms a little bit slower, so they aren't faster than 2h when you turn and swing (long maul)

-horse archery should be less accurate

-decrease the cost of siege equipment so it is more viable to use

-make the Estoc have more cut swing dmg

-Make the light xbow 1 slot again so infantry can kill archers without chasing

These are just some ideas I had and yes this is a serious application.

 
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Apsod on August 22, 2014, 04:03:23 am
Quote
That being said, we could use some more Item Advisors (particularly from eu.)

If you've posted in the past, you should post again to show interest.
Considering this I decided to give it another shot. My last post was messy and large, so I'll keep it a little shorter this time.

I'm interested in becomming an Item Advisor, because item balancing is the one thing I truly know how to do when it comes to Warband modding. I have experience being a balancer in other mods such as Battle of Europe and Calradia Slave Rebellion. I have been playing cRPG since release, and I would love to finally take part in what goes on behind the scenes.

I am usually playing as one of the melee classes, so naturally I'm most comfortable with balancing the melee classes. Taking this into consideration and seeing that you already have someone who is very experienced with ranged as an Item Advisor (XyNox), I think I would fit nicely in as a dedicated melee balancer. Of course if need be, I could also chip in with my thoughts on ranged or even cav as well.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: GOBBLINKINGREATLEADER on August 22, 2014, 04:32:45 am
item balance team here i come, its all but secured, time to start a campaign for Daruvian Item Balancer 2014
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Jona on August 22, 2014, 06:31:38 am
Quote from: Tojo on August 22, 2014, 02:37:31 am
I can balance things. I can easily balance an item such as a pencil on the tip of my finger. Also, I can balance up to 3 textbooks on my head. I can also balance my diet very well and go on a regular basis. With a little time I can even balance on two legs of a sturdy chair.

Back in the day there was this contest online where you had to submit a picture of you balancing your cellphone "in a cool/unique way." Being stuck in my dorm room at the time, I had to use anything within arms' reach... naturally I ended up grabbing a plasma-cut batarang to use. Let me tell yah... THAT took skill*.

*Read: An hour of trial and error.


Quote
That being said, we could use some more Item Advisors (particularly from eu.)

If you've posted in the past, you should post again to show interest.

Good ol' anti-American Tydeus. Don't we have 2 guys from EU (Gurnisson and XyNox) and 2 from NA (Tydeus and San) on the item balance team? Should be welcoming to anyone in order to pick the most capable candidate(s).


Quote from: GOBBLIN KING GREAT LEADER on August 22, 2014, 04:32:45 am
item balance team here i come, its all but secured, time to start a campaign for Daruvian Item Balancer 2014

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if your spot was all but secured, wouldn't you have little to no need for a campaign? 
 
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on August 22, 2014, 05:49:52 pm
Quote from: Jona on August 22, 2014, 06:31:38 am
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if your spot was all but secured, wouldn't you have little to no need for a campaign?

I think that he is getting the position of "item adviser" and hopes to become an "item balancer" soon.

I'm not involved with the item balance process at all so that's just a guess.

edit:nope
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: GOBBLINKINGREATLEADER on August 22, 2014, 06:47:55 pm
you tried to hard to explain my actions witchcraft, it was just inane babble, i want to be an item advisor

its like when someone tries to say a dog is trying to communicate with its barks but its really just barking like an asshole for no reason
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on August 22, 2014, 08:23:53 pm
I would like to apply for the item balance team as well. If prompted by the cRPG powers that be, I could provide a list of tweaks, changes, and opinions that I hold. I'm generation 28 with many 33+ gens (also a huge gay nerd), and have played every class save horse-archer. I'd be willing to STF it up on any class to get a good hold on their position in the game-balance. I'm confident that I can be objective in my recommendations and would try my damndest to take into account players at both a high and low skill level in balancing. To balance the game you've got to take both into account, and that's difficult.

Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: GOBBLINKINGREATLEADER on August 22, 2014, 08:26:21 pm
the age of the chaos hivemind is over, the time of the frisian has come
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Dekkers on August 23, 2014, 02:05:28 pm
Just saying.

Isn't 94 speed a bit much for an elegant poleaxe, concidering it also has 132 range and it does 39 damage aswell? Don't take this as crying, but I want to know if it makes sence or that I am missing out on something, because if we take the German Greatsword you get less length, less speed and the same damage, but you pay almost the same price? Besides that, wouldn't you say that a greatsword is easier to wield than a huge polearm?

I am not an expert on this matter so feel free to clarify it, if possible, without childish insults.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Grumbs on August 23, 2014, 02:15:41 pm
132 length polearm is quite a bit shorter than ~120 2 hander. The length doesn't take into account the animation reaches, so the 2 hander will have a bigger effective reach on all swings and stabs. 2 hand animations are easier to blend together so its easier to make people mess up their blocks. Personally I find speed a pretty crappy stat until you get it very high, especially on polearms. It just doesn't seem to matter much imo

The good thing about the elegant poleaxe is really that it does extra damage against shields. Besides that 2 handers are better imo
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on August 23, 2014, 05:42:19 pm
And if you want a damage against shield polearms there's no reason to take a poleaxe over the long bardiche. That thing is stupidly strong.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: San on August 23, 2014, 06:10:15 pm
Quote from: Grumbs on August 23, 2014, 02:15:41 pm
132 length polearm is quite a bit shorter than ~120 2 hander. The length doesn't take into account the animation reaches, so the 2 hander will have a bigger effective reach on all swings and stabs. 2 hand animations are easier to blend together so its easier to make people mess up their blocks. Personally I find speed a pretty crappy stat until you get it very high, especially on polearms. It just doesn't seem to matter much imo

The good thing about the elegant poleaxe is really that it does extra damage against shields. Besides that 2 handers are better imo

Not for right swing it seems when I tested on horses just now. 2h left/right swing only gains ~6-7 length compared to polearm right swing. Everything else is like 15+, though. I used the voulge (124 length)  and its right swing was slightly greater to around the same vs a practice longsword (117 length) and was slightly longer than arabian cav sword's right swing as well (105 length).

Pretty consistent with this:
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Grumbs on August 23, 2014, 06:22:46 pm
Another thing is the way the polearms interact with things around you. Poles of comparable reach to 2 handers don't necessarily get to use the reach in the same circumstances that a 2 hander could because they will glance on team mates or walls. A 2 hander with similar reach to a polearm gains more usability and are better for feinting imo. 2 hander stabs seems to work better up close too and have a large reach bonus. Its similar with 1 handers - great reach and easy to use
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Tojo on August 23, 2014, 06:48:23 pm
Quote from: Grumbs on August 23, 2014, 06:22:46 pm
Another thing is the way the polearms interact with things around you. Poles of comparable reach to 2 handers don't necessarily get to use the reach in the same circumstances that a 2 hander could because they will glance on team mates or walls. A 2 hander with similar reach to a polearm gains more usability and are better for feinting imo. 2 hander stabs seems to work better up close too and have a large reach bonus. Its similar with 1 handers - great reach and easy to use

I will agree that poles do stick on walls and teammates more so than 2h and 1h. However, there are some poles that work well in tight spaces such as Bec De Facerape. Which can outreach 2h with the right swing.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: imisshotmail on August 24, 2014, 12:30:41 am
I would like to apply as Item Balancer.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login



I would fix Cavalry as a class to not be so overpowered in the hands of any random person, but still be fun to play. Thanks  :oops:.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: GOBBLINKINGREATLEADER on August 24, 2014, 12:52:01 am
Quote from: WITCHCRAFT on August 23, 2014, 05:42:19 pm
And if you want a damage against shield polearms there's no reason to take a poleaxe over the long bardiche. That thing is stupidly strong.

Taking this moment to point out that I also said this in my post.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: San on August 24, 2014, 01:16:43 am
I think there should be a decent amount of advisors from experienced or knowledgeable players as well as a few more balancers with voting power. At this point, I think there are many powerful weapons out there, but I would like to give as many weapons as possible reasons to be used in certain scenarios. There are many polearms/2h I don't use and therefore can't really provide much insight on them outside of glaring stats imbalances.

A large problem with being an item balancer is that the information gained from knowing how much damage you deal is substantial, but you need to be an admin. I tried to get the calc at http://tinyurl.com/cprgcalc to simulate the current observed damage as close as I can, but it doesn't account for speed and hold bonuses which both greatly affect it.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Jona on August 24, 2014, 01:52:05 am
Quote from: San on August 24, 2014, 01:16:43 am
I think there should be a decent amount of advisors from experienced or knowledgeable players as well as a few more balancers with voting power. At this point, I think there are many powerful weapons out there, but I would like to give as many weapons as possible reasons to be used in certain scenarios. There are many polearms/2h I don't use and therefore can't really provide much insight on them outside of glaring stats imbalances.

A large problem with being an item balancer is that the information gained from knowing how much damage you deal is substantial, but you need to be an admin. I tried to get the calc at http://tinyurl.com/cprgcalc to simulate the current observed damage as close as I can, but it doesn't account for speed and hold bonuses which both greatly affect it.

I feel like the admin requirement for the damage calculation 'cheat' is definitely holding back most of the community. I would trust a surprisingly large number of us with balancing weapon stats, but at the same time, I would hold off on giving the same people admin rights since people get drunk/rage/etc. whilst playing.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Apsod on August 24, 2014, 01:56:10 am
Quote from: San on August 24, 2014, 01:16:43 am
A large problem with being an item balancer is that the information gained from knowing how much damage you deal is substantial, but you need to be an admin. I tried to get the calc at http://tinyurl.com/cprgcalc to simulate the current observed damage as close as I can, but it doesn't account for speed and hold bonuses which both greatly affect it.
I never understood why they made that only accessible by admins. There are a lot of people who would love having such a tool available, and it would make it a lot easier for community members to provide better balance suggestion.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Sniger on August 24, 2014, 12:27:39 pm
Quote from: Apsod on August 24, 2014, 01:56:10 am
I never understood why they made that only accessible by admins. There are a lot of people who would love having such a tool available, and it would make it a lot easier for community members to provide better balance suggestion.

i know why!

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Jack1 on August 24, 2014, 05:26:17 pm
if I'm needed I can provide input on balancing items. I've done a lot of different classes on alts for a little while including str crutch polearm, balanced 1h, 1h cav, agi archer, crossbow, and my main 2h. I've used an array of items between 2h and 1h with plenty of different armors but not that many polearms.

edit: Also, couldn't you just make a separate ladder again for balancers just like tydeus did with admins on the event servers? It would just be a ladder were either you are or are not an admin. Not really any ranks.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Canary on August 26, 2014, 01:43:20 am
I have lots of dumb opinions and the community already gets mad at me. I think I've got what it takes!

Jokes aside, considering the way the balance discussion and voting works, I have a very diversified perspective on how things go down in the game, having switched my main over to a character that I retire every time I get to 31 at the beginning of this strat; I try a different spec each gen and I'm about to hit gen 25.

I often take a contrary stance to popular opinion: I did over 7 gens of strength melee only after the so-called "strength nerf"(wpf reworking) went into place, because I wanted to find out for myself. There isn't doom and gloom and gamebreaking class ruination in balance, and overdramatizing has no place in a real discussion about game mechanics, let alone individual item balance, particularly when that tends to work out to mostly single plus ones and minus ones these days.

Even my own most vehement complaints are mostly half-hearted. It's easier to complain about something than it is to push yourself to get better. I know better, but I'm addicted to the whine.

I also have access to the damage viewer already...!
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: karasu on August 26, 2014, 01:46:33 am
Quote from: San on August 24, 2014, 01:16:43 am
A large problem with being an item balancer is that the information gained from knowing how much damage you deal is substantial, but you need to be an admin.

Not just any admin, an admin with proper rank, since we foot soldier admins can't access the B damage tool on EU oficial servers. (Although I think I still have access to that tool in HRE server, but that server is outdated as hell, so pointless)
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Tydeus on August 26, 2014, 01:59:19 am
Quote from: Apsod on August 24, 2014, 01:56:10 am
I never understood why they made that only accessible by admins.
Convenience. The admin level check already looked similar to what would have to be done in order to pick and choose who gets access and who doesn't and by hi-jacking the admin level stuff, Urist was able to script the damage reporter without needing much work (nothing had to be done on the website side). So there was no point not using the admin system, since all the current balancers were already also long-time admins and it had previously been decided by devs that it shouldn't be open and accessible to players. 98% of admins don't have the admin level required to use the damage reporter.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: MURDERTRON on August 26, 2014, 03:24:39 am
Pls to give item balancer I will veto all Tydeus proposal
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: stickher on August 26, 2014, 03:33:26 am
Im not going to write something really long to apply. Who ever knows me and does the hiring will make that judgment. I play a good amount of time and give tons of weapons a chance. some can recall me trying a prac 1handed sword for a month or two as swash buckle. I give everything a fair chance and hate range, sorry guys i dont like no risk all reward classes but i think their ok for the game.
Title: Re: [Applications] Item balancers
Post by: Huscarlton_Banks on September 01, 2014, 03:30:24 am
I'll throw my hat in for an adviser (non-getting burnt at the stake as a witch non-voting) role. Most of my posts outside of the "post gifs that describe c-rpg" thread seem to be in suggestions/game balance anyway, so it wouldn't seem like work.

I mainly play 1h/shield, but I've played through at least one gen each of agi stack/balanced/str stack for 1h+shield/Polearm/2h/Thrower/Archer/2h Cav/1h+shield Cav in order from most experience to least experience.

I lack experience playing Xbow/HA/HX/Lancer.

I'm familiar enough with the module system to suggest solutions outside of just altering basic item stats (Scripting with the module system is fairly easy to learn. It seems extremely high level vs most programming languages.)

I like playing around with different weapons, ideally I'd like to have as many non-peasant weapons as possible be viable enough in comparison to whatever's the FoTM so that they don't seem like rarities in actual gameplay.

I value "fun" gameplay over realism e.g. I'd be against changing the following, and would at least advocate for smaller steps in changing the following if they came up for discussion, even if the change would favor me (like shield bash damage).

(click to show/hide)