Author Topic: [Applications] Item balancers  (Read 19127 times)

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Offline Algarn

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Re: [Applications] Item balancers
« Reply #120 on: January 02, 2014, 02:22:54 pm »
+1
Well, it wouldn't be so OP as rondel daggers + shield before the patches that nerfed it  :P

Offline Apsod

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Re: [Applications] Item balancers
« Reply #121 on: January 02, 2014, 02:24:20 pm »
+1
Apsod it's nice to see you planning your work already man, but let me tell you a thing. Great long axe thrust damage might not need a buff, before deciding that I'd suggest you to see how experienced polearm axes use it. I dueled them tor and his thrusts were so instant, and were mostly followed by a kick. If I was like 0,1 second late I would have been kicked after getting hit by the thrust, a thrust that was nearly unblockable. It is of course, not faster than an awlpike; however awlpike has 1 fast and 1 slow attack; while long axes are fairly omnipotent in 4 directions, it is harder to guess.

Long axe users, use it as more of an interruption move; which is fairly useful at their work. If the thrust damage is to be increased, it will hurt a bit more.

Just my 2 cents.
Yeah, the thrust was never meant to be anything but an interruption move like you said, though buffing the stab to 17 wont change that. Not sure what you mean by his thrusts being instant. The GLA which Tor uses is not fast at all, though it is faster than an awlpike. Awlpike has 90 speed while GLA has 91.

But like I said before, I am not completely sure about the changes to the GLA, LWA and GLB. I just felt that the Long Axe was a bit too good compared to the GLA and LWA and buffing the swing damage didn't feel right.

Offline Ronin

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Re: [Applications] Item balancers
« Reply #122 on: January 02, 2014, 02:39:23 pm »
+1
Well by instant, I mean it connects very early and require inhuman reflexes to block. For example:

When duelling with an awlpiker, you can simply block downwards without much though and only change it when your opponent uses an overhead

The same strategy can not be applied to a Long Axe users (any type of it), you always have to watch out for 4 attack directions. While the thrust does way less damage, it is much harder to block. Because:
1-It is faster than an awlpike
2-Long axes are shorter, which is an advantage here as it can be used on close range
3-You are not only waiting for your opponent to use a thrust attack, you have 3 more attack directions to watch out.

It almost always does 1-2 damage but interrupts you because of the type of damage (blunt). Maybe buffing it is not a really great idea. I think it is fairly good at it's role. I don't know how much damage difference 1 blunt damage would. If it influences a bit too much it might be too abusive for duels. Slowly hurting your opponent doesn't sound like a bad strategy among strong duellists.

Besides, the normal long axe does cut damage on thrust; so maybe lowering it by 1 would be a better idea if the balance is off. I think 1 blunt does more influence than 1 cut damage.

This is just my opinion. I don't really know if it is going to be good or not, but it is worth to be a bit careful before making any changes. Numbers do not always show the whole picture. All in all, I really suggest you to duel with tor before doing anything.
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Offline Rumblood

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Re: [Applications] Item balancers
« Reply #123 on: January 02, 2014, 02:45:20 pm »
+2
This is an application thread. If you aren't applying or commenting on an application, go to the suggestions and balance forums.
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Offline Apsod

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Re: [Applications] Item balancers
« Reply #124 on: January 02, 2014, 02:59:05 pm »
+2
This is an application thread. If you aren't applying or commenting on an application, go to the suggestions and balance forums.
I know, but I got asked questions concering my thinking when it comes to balancing so I sort of had to answer.
This is just my opinion. I don't really know if it is going to be good or not, but it is worth to be a bit careful before making any changes. Numbers do not always show the whole picture. All in all, I really suggest you to duel with tor before doing anything.
Yeah these changes would have to be discussed between the balance team before making into the game of course. Also, I have dueled Tor and he is damn good, but I doubt it is the GLA that makes him OP.

Offline jack786

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Re: [Applications] Item balancers
« Reply #125 on: January 02, 2014, 03:07:46 pm »
0
*Nerf awlpikes that can randomly kill you one hit or two hits even for full heavy gears.
*Nerf those very fast spammy steel picks
*Make archers less dangerous in melee combat!
*Less accuracy for HA
*I myself know that its fun to kill people very quick with 2handed thrusts, but why they can hit harder than actual spears and pikes?
*Reduce throwing thing damage. Throwing Lance can take down almost any horse, and the other throwing shits do more damage than any archer. What I have seen is that people make character with random ugly face, dress in clothes and make fast agility character and just randomly kill knights with those throwing things.
*If you want to keep more new people, give new players some kind of reward, that would make them stay in game, and not die all time as peasants as they start to play game.
*Make strategus battles available to noobs, so its not only for friends and high lv elite players
*Nerf 1h cav, so it cannot bumb and hit kill most of players, medium and heavy.

***AND MOST IMPORTANT! Why you don't add new maps for battle? Is it really that hard and long to place objects and spawn points on map to make new maps? I have made several maps for Native mod. I don't see how its hard to make new maps. We have been playing the same damn old boring, well know maps for years.. This sucks
« Last Edit: January 02, 2014, 03:45:45 pm by jack786 »
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Offline Ronin

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Re: [Applications] Item balancers
« Reply #126 on: January 02, 2014, 03:08:46 pm »
+1
*Nerf awlpikes that can randomly kill you one hit or two hits even for full heavy gears.
*Nerf those very fast spammy steel picks
*Make archers less dangerous in melee combat!
*Less accuracy for HA
*I myself know that its fun to kill people very quick with 2handed thrusts, but why they can hit harder than actual spears and pikes?
*Reduce throwing thing damage. Throwing Lance can take down almost any horse, and the other throwing shits do more damage than any archer. What I have seen is that people make character with random ugly face, dress in clothes and make fast agility character and just randomly kill knights with those throwing things.
*If you want to keep more new people, give new players some kind of reward, that would make them stay in game, and not die all time as peasants as they start to play game.
*Make strategus battles available to noobs, so its not only for friends and high lv elite players

***AND MOST IMPORTANT! Why you don't add new maps for battle? Is it really that hard and long to place objects and spawn points on map to make new maps? I have made several maps for Native mod. I don't see how its hard to make new maps. We have been playing the same damn old boring, well know maps for years.. This sucks
[Applications] Item balancers
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Seems the fascists are gaining ground once again in UKR... right vving politics is SO bad for the general populace but STILL in times of trouble the uneducated turn to them for help, simply because they are so amoral they vvill supply those vvilling to fight vvith vveapons rather than knovvledge.

My UU key is broken incase you can't tell :D

Offline Kafein

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Re: [Applications] Item balancers
« Reply #127 on: January 02, 2014, 03:14:00 pm »
+1
Yeah, the thrust was never meant to be anything but an interruption move like you said, though buffing the stab to 17 wont change that. Not sure what you mean by his thrusts being instant. The GLA which Tor uses is not fast at all, though it is faster than an awlpike. Awlpike has 90 speed while GLA has 91.

But like I said before, I am not completely sure about the changes to the GLA, LWA and GLB. I just felt that the Long Axe was a bit too good compared to the GLA and LWA and buffing the swing damage didn't feel right.

Just one last thing, in my opinion the long axe is a little bit too good compared to GLA and LWA, but I'd rather nerf the LA. The spathovaklion is a little bit too good compared to other 1h maces, and you say you would nerf it, so why not apply the same reasoning to polearms ?

Offline Tyr_

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Re: [Applications] Item balancers
« Reply #128 on: January 02, 2014, 03:17:32 pm »
+2
I am not as much interested as I used to be, but still some Ideas I have:

- Fix bows:

Longbow should have the fastest missile speed, Short Bow the slowest, current balance is stupid. Though leave the Longbow at 40, maybe increase it to 41/42, and afterwards scale all missile speeds with this so Longbow stays the one with the highest. Weapon speed just the other way around, Short bow the fastest, Long Bow the slowest.

Because of HA balance Yumi should get a slightly higher missile speed than Hornbow, while Hornbow gets the faster reload speed.

Alternative: Reduce the amount of Arrows per stack by ~30% (loomed arrows will get very useful again), remove pierce damage from Bodkin Arrows and give the Longbow back its pierce damage as it used to be  :arrow: The more arrows you want to carry with you/shot the cheaper arrows you need to use, so you do less damage. To do high damage you want bodkins, which will have 10 arrows per stack at +0. Moreover Longbow will be the only bow with pierce damage, meaning that it will be very effective against plate armor, but due to its high reload time it will be a waste to shot peasants, cheaper & faster bows will be suited for this job.

Bodkins should be at 9 or 10 cut dmg.


- Xbows:

Make Arbalest 3 Slot. Arbalesters will keep the ability to 1 shot targets, but lose their melee capability because they are limited to 0 slot weapons. This will give the Heavy Crossbow a place aswell. It can 2 shot targets on the body and 1 shot on headshots like the Arbalests, but you will be able to carry a better melee weapon with you, therefore this will just increase the learning curve for Xbowers, and once they manage to do enough headshots there won't be much of a difference in using Arbalest or Heavy Crossbows for them.


- Daggers:

Increase the damage of Daggers slightly, but remove the ability to use a Dagger with a Shield. There always used to be ppl using Daggers as weapon, but most of them needed a bit skill in order to chamber attacks. Now there is too many running around with a Dagger/Shield which makes it way too easy to use.
When you cannot use a Shield anymore there should be no problem in buffing the Daggers damage, because then ppl will have to start chambering again if they want to do more than quick backstabbing.


- Horse Ranged:

When the pierce damage goes to the Longbow only few HA's will be able to do decent against tincans (landing headshots still does damage if you use Arrows and Horn Bow, but only the good ones can do that). Therefore Horse Xbowers should be the ones focusing the heavy armored opponents and leave light targets to HA's.
HX needs to be balanced with the HAs. The heavies Combo Horsearchers can use will be Yumi and bodkins (which should have about 9-10 cut dmg), making less damage than Light xbow + Steel bolts (the missile speed makes a huge difference), even against light armored targets. Light Crossbows must either get their reload speed increased by ~30% or lose the same amount of damage. Reducing the Damage will reduce their effictivity against light armored targets aswell, so it would make more sense to reduce the reload speed which leads to the same situation the Longbow users will have: it is not worth their time to shot a peasant while they could be shoting a tincan.
They will still do more damage against heavy armored targets thanks to their pierce damage, but won't be as effective against light/medium as Horsearchers.


- Cav:

Lancers are fine imo, if the ride around on Arabian Warhorses they are very annoying, but can be countered by downblocking. 1h cav needs to get nerfed. The swords damage scales way too much with your movement speed, enabling 1h cav to everything except for Str crutching tincans if they land a proper hit on the head. Just reduce the bonus damage they get from their movement speed on horse by a third, light armored targets (aka Archers) will still die from a hit to the head, but melee will survive.


- 2h swords:

Nodachi:                      43 Cut, 91 Speed, 122 Length
Miaodao:                     42 Cut, 96 Speed, 115 Length
Highland Claymore:     43 Cut, 92 Speed, 117 Length

Really, do this 7 points in length and 1 point in damage compensate for the 5 less in speed the Nodachi has compared to Miaodao? Or having 5 length more than the Highland Claymore, but who cares, Claymore can stab which will outreach Nodachi anytime. It can stun 1hers with an overhead, but the Claymore can do the same with .5 weight less while being cheaper and superior. Nodachi should get like 1 or 2 points more in damage.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2014, 03:24:18 pm by Tyr_ »
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Offline Byrdi

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Re: [Applications] Item balancers
« Reply #129 on: January 02, 2014, 03:56:07 pm »
+1
Nodachi:                      43 Cut, 91 Speed, 122 Length
Miaodao:                     42 Cut, 96 Speed, 115 Length
Highland Claymore:     43 Cut, 92 Speed, 117 Length

Really, do this 7 points in length and 1 point in damage compensate for the 5 less in speed the Nodachi has compared to Miaodao? Or having 5 length more than the Highland Claymore, but who cares, Claymore can stab which will outreach Nodachi anytime. It can stun 1hers with an overhead, but the Claymore can do the same with .5 weight less while being cheaper and superior. Nodachi should get like 1 or 2 points more in damage.

Don't forget that Nodachi weights a lot more than the other weapons (0.5 kg is a lot in terms of stun potential) therefore you can easily stun most weapons with the same speed. Resulting in a quite fast follow up attack.
There is a point to what you are saying though, but increasing the speed by more than one should make it too good for STR based spam.

Also: my application is still valid. :D

Offline Rumblood

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Re: [Applications] Item balancers
« Reply #130 on: January 02, 2014, 07:30:00 pm »
+3
I know, but I got asked questions concering my thinking when it comes to balancing so I sort of had to answer.Yeah these changes would have to be discussed between the balance team before making into the game of course. Also, I have dueled Tor and he is damn good, but I doubt it is the GLA that makes him OP.

That's fine. Just make a response in the balance forums and place a link here to respond. This should be a thread where we can review applications and respond to those without needing to wade through pages of manifesto's like Tyr's to find them.
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Offline BlueKnight

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Re: [Applications] Item balancers
« Reply #131 on: January 02, 2014, 08:31:04 pm »
+2
<Tydeus> Dear chadz, please grant the cRPG community 1 additional item balancer
<chadz_> bring me one :P

To the future of crpg!

(click to show/hide)

No, but seriously:
I say you pick a few people and have them on a trial period (2 weeks or sth) so that they have to consult their 'good' ideas with you and if you like something, you just add it, or consult it with the overlords.

It's like you can never say by his post on the forum if he's going to improve the mod but if you picked 10 you'd get more good ideas then if you picked 1. Picking 20 would be too much for 1 person (you) to control but I guess that from those few that were chosen, after some time you could select with who to "renew the contract" and work with him/them for another 2 weeks or month or permanently.

Also, please state if the people that you are looking for have to have any special editing or modding skeelz.
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Offline Tydeus

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Re: [Applications] Item balancers
« Reply #132 on: January 02, 2014, 08:43:10 pm »
0
(click to show/hide)

No, but seriously:
I say you pick a few people and have them on a trial period (2 weeks or sth) so that they have to consult their 'good' ideas with you and if you like something, you just add it, or consult it with the overlords.

It's like you can never say by his post on the forum if he's going to improve the mod but if you picked 10 you'd get more good ideas then if you picked 1. Picking 20 would be too much for 1 person (you) to control but I guess that from those few that were chosen, after some time you could select with who to "renew the contract" and work with him/them for another 2 weeks or month or permanently.

Also, please state if the people that you are looking for have to have any special editing or modding skeelz.
That's basically what was decided on, I just didn't update my post. We've picked out a few people so far, but we're still trying to decide on a few others. There's no ETA on this, so if you didn't apply in the past, you can still go ahead and do so now.
chadz> i wouldnt mind seeing some penis on my character

Offline BlueKnight

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Re: [Applications] Item balancers
« Reply #133 on: January 02, 2014, 08:58:21 pm »
+2
That's basically what was decided on, I just didn't update my post. We've picked out a few people so far, but we're still trying to decide on a few others. There's no ETA on this, so if you didn't apply in the past, you can still go ahead and do so now.
Well, I am going to apply then!

I'd happily talk about str req of crossbows. As Spiderman once said: 'With great power comes great strength! HUE HUE'
But then chadz would have to allow for another free respec which is probably not an option. On the other hand if it is an option, the sooner the better. After all, free respec has been given to everyone recently so the 2nd one wouldn't affect the game as much as the 1st one.

Also this:
5. Arrows&bolts shouldn't destroy the shields as effectively as they do now.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2014, 09:02:20 pm by BlueKnight »
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Offline Gurnisson

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Re: [Applications] Item balancers
« Reply #134 on: January 02, 2014, 11:14:31 pm »
+12
I'll throw my hat in the ring as well. Been playing a long time, still relatively active and have played quite a lot with all classes, and the different weapons within those. I have formed opinions about the strength and weaknesses of said classes/weapons over the course these years. I'd gladly help if I can.
I voted Gurnisson cause of his fucking bendy pike, I swear noone can roflcopter stab like he can.