- Slot system was introduced (Its bad only for ranged players
because no horse can move after getting shotted from head.
what ????
I need 2 hs for killing stumpter. 8PD and all equip+3
I've got a level 31 Short Bow archer alt that I frequently do good with. (good meaning 1-5th place.)
Why dont you guys just adapt :?: I see plenty of good archers that does really REALLY well!
Try getting used to not being able to run n shoot. Get a 1slot weapon like Tenne.
Also you really moan and bitch in your post. You did try to make a few points , but they got drowned in self biased piece of shit text..
PS: Melee have gotten just as many nerfs as archery.. You really make it sound like archery is something special that keeps getting stomped upon..
You missed the point, its not about kiting. How does getting a 1slot weapon fix archery ?You should have to use a freaking melee weapon once you finally get caught, kiting is a horrible 'feature'.
You should have to use a freaking melee weapon once you finally get caught, kiting is a horrible 'feature'.
And archery is UP, however it being buffed would be horrible.
And archery is UP, however it being buffed would be horrible.
As an infantry, I wouldnt like to see buffed archery but what I like is more realism in the game. So I can agree with OttomanSniper. Archery is the best fighting class in reality. It is like guns in medieval. Can u imagine attack a man who carries gun with a sword? Feel like that and stop trying to make classes equal.
P.s:(click to show/hide)
My Rus Bow +3 shots bounce on tincans some time. (8PD)
I need 2 hs for killing stumpter. 8PD and all equip+3
That's the sort of things that makes me not taking you seriously. Lies, lies and more lies :(
That's the sort of things that makes me not taking you seriously. Lies, lies and more lies :(
No it isn't fair, but a lot of melee people are going to disagree with you just because they hate archers.
this is just to put your post into perspective, I agree that archery has been hit hard. but most classes have been nerfed a lot, i am just throwing in some of them:
Funny otto....
I just got 1 shot in my face today by a bodkin arrow... I have around 80 hp an 50 armor...
Could you try lobbying a bit harder :?: :lol:
Like you melee people don't lie about damage from archers lol. Like, "urgh *crycrycry* TWO arrows kills my TINCAN11!11 *crycrycry*"
Funny otto....
I just got 1 shot in my face today by a bodkin arrow... I have around 80 hp an 50 armor...
Could you try lobbying a bit harder :?: :lol:
I think we need to hand out Master lobbyist awards :P
Funny otto....
I just got 1 shot in my face today by a bodkin arrow... I have around 80 hp an 50 armor...
Could you try lobbying a bit harder :?: :lol:
Tbh it feels like the armor values are fucked up big time, cause I'm headshooting alot of people that survives nowdays, or did you actually nerf the shit out of headshots that I've missed? Even people with Kettle Helmet survives headshots now, what's up with that? :?But tzar gets fuckin instakilled by headshots every single fucking time, i bet even by a huntingbow.
But tzar gets fuckin instakilled by headshots every single fucking time, i bet even by a huntingbow.(click to show/hide)
Id have to say, if infantry has a problem with archers kiting, then surly it would have been a better idea for some infantry to quit being complete tanks and instead beat the kiters at their own game?
Not too sure what archer builds are these days, but in my 40 body armor 1 arrow equals 1/2 to 3/4 of my HP. In melee it takes 3hits to kill me.Depends on the PD of the archer, the bow used, were they shooting down at you, what type of arrow used, were the bow/arrow loomed.
PS. I have a 6shield skill and still get pinged from the front.
crossbowmen who do not need to worry about approaching cavalry or other infantry.
(In comparison here: Longbow: 40 missile speed vs Jarids: 20 missile speed vs Arbalest: 58 missile speed.
Archery doesnt need to be buffed, I think its alright as it is now. It deals about the same dmg as people do in melee. Xbows should get nerfed as well though, the dmg some of them deal is just insane...can come walking around in my pretty heavy armor, get shot in the foot and die from one hit...
I do not know how you can think this. In 1vs1 vs infantry the archers ability to keep distance as long as possible while shooting all the time is offset by the crossbowmans fairly good chance to oneshot and somewhat higher melee stats. I'm assuming btw that the archer has a 1 slot weapon and 5 or 6 PS, if your shooting damage isn't good enough with that then I'd really argue that there is something wrong with the damage values, or alternatively making higher tier bows 1 slot, giving more ammo etc.
When ganked or in a group fight the archer is simply better. An arbalestier in a group fight always has to make a decision: Do I commit myself to a 6 or 7 second reload during which I have to stand still or do I jump into melee? All it takes is one enemy able to focus attention on him and he can cancel it and go into emergency melee anyway. The archer just keeps shooting until that actually happens, no time wasted, and since he can always position himself as he wants probably can avoid melee in the first place.
I think archery skills (WPF + PD) increase missile speed, similar for throwing. Have no idea if that's (still) in or what values that actually are. I've never been a particular fan of the speed nerfs though. I think the reasoning behind it was they are going to nerf archery one way or another and that's still more skill based than decreasing accuracy.
But in any case agree, pointless thread is pointless.
I believe you have very much extrapolated from what I said there. I was talking about a situation where the crossbowman does not have any immediate threats, not in a 1 vs 1 situation against infantry, I'm not sure which part of what I wrote caused that to pop up. What you have said is still valid for your specific scenario, an archer does have a far better chance to survive than a crossbowman against a single target gunning for them but once again, that is not close to what I was talking about.
Onto your second point, WPF & PD does not even come close to catching up to the missile speed, not even slightly, besides that, crossbowmen are still able to put in their own wpf, which I would assume, if one increases the missile speed, the other would too, therefore the PD speed up would make bugger all difference, to put it bluntly. (Oh, and then there is the effective WPF decrease with the higher PD, which means that it would offset it more.)
Comparatively, that missile speed is a total of 18 higher than that of a longbow, a hunting crossbow, the "worst" of the lot, has as much speed as a masterwork longbow, the highest missile speed bow on the market.
Theoretically the crossbow should be used at longer ranges for their higher projectile speeds, but given the map set ups that we have, they don't need to be across the other side of the map as there is a sort of "gravity" towards points where the two bulks of the armies will fight giving a wide range of different targets to hit.
Updated...
I understand the intentions behind the weight nerf and I do not at all miss the kiting aspect of archery but still I think this could also have been achieved with a mechanic a bit less retarded. What I dont understand though, instead giving some compensation for the mobility nerf, archers get another ranged nerf by nerfing missile speed and damage ??
I'm actually having fun as an archer. Even as a (money problems related) dismounted horse archer. Doesn't seem overnerfed.
QuoteIf you compare 1 shot from arba to 1 shot from bow, yes. Reloading..? Bow wins. Mobility...? Bow wins. Upkeep...? Both are high.
There is so much more between it. The ability to hold the closed reticule for a long time, the far better awareness due reloading, the higher shot speed...
I know, a skilled archer can compensate all that to a certain degree, even more when fully loomed. But the average player is more dangerous with an arba than with any bow.
The thing is the ones who complain the most, the inf, are actually the round deciders while archers along with thrower have the least impact on the round outcome. So if you wanna complain about archers, complain about having too many of them in your own team while the other steamrolls you due the inf advantage.
The other big factor, map dependent, is of course cav. But they again feast on the ignorance and stupidity of players. If there was actual teamwork among the ranged and melee footmen, cav would have a harder time.
Did I miss anything? Archers are the ultra class now that dominate everyone - even shielders with "antishielder bugusing"? I remember them as squishy bottom feeders that were more an annoyance than a threat to my shieldless melee chars. They didn't even waste any energy to target my shielders. Raped by cav and other ranged alike, their low armor making them a "one mistake and you are out" class. But they are probably OP now, with all the changes over the past months.
What is a "risk"? For me the lowest risk of losing a round is either going melee footman(low upkeep) or melee cav(high upkeep). As ranged horseman I might be able to survive for a while and hurt the enemy team with taking out the horses of their melee cav but I can't really deal damage to their players unless they are really retarded. Highest risk for me is going foot archer because he is made out of glass and not even close to being a cannon. Going foot xbow or (hybrid) thrower is ok. Medium risk, I can be effective there. But don't get me started on horse throwers.
Quoteinfantry is the meat of the mod. If there are too many archers and cav they kill it like bloodsucking little mosquitos.
Infantry are the round decider of this mod. Along with cav, who mostly profit from ignorance of other players, they are the most powerful factor in this game. In comparison ranged is on an all time low in terms of significance towards the outcome of a round.
However we will nerf ranged further. Afaik after the end of WSE2 beta and with the installation of the WSE2 clientside endlösung, we plan to add wind(with a fixed vector per map or round) to the game that deviates the path from projectiles significantly, making aiming more skillbased.
I may be wrong but none of those quoted statements were about the fun-factor of the class.
In that case, let me show you a few quotes about your opinion concerning archery from the past. Please keep in mind that you posted some of those pre nerf.
There is so much more between it. The ability to hold the closed reticule for a long time, the far better awareness due reloading, the higher shot speed...
I know, a skilled archer can compensate all that to a certain degree, even more when fully loomed. But the average player is more dangerous with an arba than with any bow.
Infantry are the round decider of this mod. Along with cav, who mostly profit from ignorance of other players, they are the most powerful factor in this game. In comparison ranged is on an all time low in terms of significance towards the outcome of a round.
However we will nerf ranged further. Afaik after the end of WSE2 beta and with the installation of the WSE2 clientside endlösung, we plan to add wind(with a fixed vector per map or round) to the game that deviates the path from projectiles significantly, making aiming more skillbased.
All those points you list are the same that archers still complain about today. In every of those posts you give reason for archers being an overall inferior class compared to its competitors. And I repeat, some of those statements were made when archery was a lot less nerfed than today.
So what happened Paul ? Why the sudden change in attitude ?
Well, air friction got lowered to back Native levels. This is one hidden buff that seemed to stayed off everyone's radar. This especially positively affects high cadence ranged like archery. I also base my opinion on current play experience, so it is prone to change. I'm on noone's side, never was. I don't have any preferences either.
I'm actually having fun as an archer. Even as a (money problems related) dismounted horse archer. Doesn't seem overnerfed.
All in all I think we need some changes regarding archery that make the class more fun again without making it unfair.
Well even if Im a new player, I know about times where archery was fun to play and better balanced.
Its was hard to come from native to crpg archery but that was what i wanted actually. We all are here too have more fun or a higher skillcap.
Even with the little tricks to oneshot people (eye spots for example they have 0 armor rating --> oneshot for decent archer with a bit luck) i must say, that a normal bow with 7 pd is sometimes more viable than a longbow/rusbow just for the fact, you cant hunt down enemys with 50+ armor anymore. Even if it sounds stupid, but i was a Yumi user with 7 pd (i know not the best weapon and in my eyes totally fucked right now :x ) and I have to get around 8-9 hits for a enemy with medium armor in the body. so i though hey lets get at least a decent melee weapon? good thought right? fuck it really.. 7 PS isnt enough for most enemys too cuz youre so fucking slow, that even a snail can hunt you down.
Fact is, paying 770 gold nearly every round for a longbow to repair it, is just too expensive, and the gold/usable ratio is really bad.
All in all i must say, i see very good archers like Nox, Bagge, Blackbow and Tenne. Because of them i wanted to be a archer cause they saved me soo fucking often with epic melee shots. This guys are still "viable" archers cause they got loomed gear and good skill trained over a long time i guess. but for a newbie like me its a pain in the ass.