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cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Moncho on October 29, 2012, 12:46:27 pm

Title: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Moncho on October 29, 2012, 12:46:27 pm
Edited some mistakes.

Before:
I am going to choose a 2h sword. I can choose fast ones (katana, HBS) but they lack some damage, let me take a look at the other ones.
Oh, most of them have 92 speed, which one should I choose? Maybe the longest one, which also happens to be one of the most damaging? Hell yes! DGS it is (simplified version but thats how I felt looking at them)

After:
Well, now the German/Danish greatswords have been made slower, only 90 speed and gained some damage. This makes them the slower, harder hitter machines that they should be imo. Let me take another look at the other ones.
Wait, the HBS/BS have been made a bit faster, and the SoW, Claymore, GS now have a place.
Darn it, now I actually have to think and choose one that fits my needs, not one that is very good at everything. Now I can choose faster, hard hitting, stabbing, and many more other things


But I still want to QQ because now my uber MW DGS is not as good as it was :(

This has been done from memory and the data in the website, please say if you do not agree with anything.

I think this patch brought (if the data on the website is correct) to 2hers some of the balancing 1hers have had for quite a long time, with each thing having trade offs. But maybe I am missing something...
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Rage_Guy on October 29, 2012, 12:51:27 pm
Nooo, my KuyakWarmaskHero alt is nerfed!  :cry: :cry: :cry:
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Osiris on October 29, 2012, 01:41:42 pm
you forgot they also gave 2h the highest cut weapon to mix it up some more


Persian Battle Axe
Type:Two handed weapon
Requirement:17 strength
Weight:4.5
Slots:2
Upkeep:429 gold
Shop price:6,132 gold
Value:3,066 gold
Speed:90
Length:95
Swing:48 cut
Bonus against shield
Unbalanced


all in all good job :D
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: cmp on October 29, 2012, 01:44:39 pm
Well, now the German/Danish greatswords have been made slightly worse, only 90 speed and lost some damage.

They gained some damage.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Phew on October 29, 2012, 02:04:01 pm
Overall I think the 2h balancing is an improvement; it seems to actually take into account the incredible power of the 2h thrust (the thrusting swords pay a larger speed penalty now). Also nice to see some under-used swords like Dadao, HGS, 2h Sword, Great Sword, etc now have a role. Also, I'm glad that 2h axes are no longer pitiful compared to their polearm counterparts.

I'm skeptical of the Longsword buff though; it was already the most powerful/popular 2h, and now it's even better. Thanks to the hiltslash mechanic, good players can consistently double-hit with fast 2-handers. Couple that with a 170+ reach insta-stab that doesn't glance, and it's a little much.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: PanPan on October 29, 2012, 02:05:43 pm
Katana is made slower not faster... But gained some damage!

Anyway I don't understand why a longer and heavier Sword can be faster than Katana or as fast as it. (HBS, BS)
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Nehvar on October 29, 2012, 02:06:52 pm
text

The German/Danish swords gained one each to thrust and cut.  The katana actually lost a point in speed but also gained a point of thrust and cut.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: _GTX_ on October 29, 2012, 02:53:09 pm
U rly do hate greatswords  Moncho O.o, i was completely correct.

Why dont u go 2h with ur main, and then pick danish. Lol, hf..

PS: Anyone wanna  buy an ''op'' danish greatsword? Even i cba anymore, biggest 2h lover there prob is.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: TheAppleSauceMan on October 29, 2012, 03:17:14 pm
you forgot they also gave 2h the highest cut weapon to mix it up some more


Persian Battle Axe
Type:Two handed weapon
Requirement:17 strength
Weight:4.5
Slots:2
Upkeep:429 gold
Shop price:6,132 gold
Value:3,066 gold
Speed:90
Length:95
Swing:48 cut
Bonus against shield
Unbalanced


all in all good job :D

Next gen I'm getting a +3 one of these babies and rolling with it. 51 cut ftw.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Moncho on October 29, 2012, 03:33:37 pm
They gained some damage.

So the greatsword guys are complaining that they now have slower but harder hitting weapons? How is that a nerf? I am even more confused now as to why they would cry...

Katana is made slower not faster... But gained some damage!

Anyway I don't understand why a longer and heavier Sword can be faster than Katana or as fast as it. (HBS, BS)
Neither do I, but I really know nothing about japanese warfare so cannot really speak about them.

U rly do hate greatswords  Moncho O.o, i was completely correct.

Why dont u go 2h with ur main, and then pick danish. Lol, hf..

PS: Anyone wanna  buy an ''op'' danish greatsword? Even i cba anymore.

I do not hate them, I just think they should have that place instead of an extremely good at all that they had before. Same as with 1hers, you have the hard hitting but shorter ones (cleavers), hard and fast but even shorter (niuweidao and similars), then you can go with the long ones and get different degrees of stab and slash qualities (from lee, going through arming and NCS to scimitar, which does not even have a stab). Each has its purpose, and they are mostly your preference, but with greatswords you did not have this dilemma, now you do, which is what I like about this change.
About going 2her on my main, I started this gen as it, but respecced because I was getting shot to pieces, so I just went back to my classic shielder. I still get shot often, but I can at least walk with a bit more calm, and have more fun, which is what the game is about after all.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: _GTX_ on October 29, 2012, 03:41:48 pm
I do not hate them, I just think they should have that place instead of an extremely good at all that they had before. Same as with 1hers, you have the hard hitting but shorter ones (cleavers), hard and fast but even shorter (niuweidao and similars), then you can go with the long ones and get different degrees of stab and slash qualities (from lee, going through arming and NCS to scimitar, which does not even have a stab). Each has its purpose, and they are mostly your preference, but with greatswords you did not have this dilemma, now you do, which is what I like about this change.
About going 2her on my main, I started this gen as it, but respecced because I was getting shot to pieces, so I just went back to my classic shielder. I still get shot often, but I can at least walk with a bit more calm, and have more fun, which is what the game is about after all.

Its pretty damn hard to have fun, when ur weapon is completely useless, while other great weapons is not even touched by the nerf. The danish wasent the fastest, it didnt do the most dmg(as far as i remember), and it wasent the longest. Now its as slow as a 160 lenght polearm, and also a few over that lenght. The dmg isent that extreme at all, and it isent that long.

Take a look at the marketplace aswell, can u guess what the most offered heirloom is? I wanna bet that after a few days, the danish wont even be on the list of requested looms at all.

I have been known to a be danish greatsword fanboy, because i love the sword and im danish irl. I had it for 2 and a half year, yet im selling mine now.... thats says something. If i dont want the danish, then who does?

Anyway, just think about the last lines.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Leshma on October 29, 2012, 03:43:09 pm
HBS is 2 points faster, and everything else is the same as before.

Longsword got +1 to cut and 1 more speed.

Those two are now perfect weapons for balanced/strength oriented builds.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Osiris on October 29, 2012, 03:46:13 pm
GTX just because you only want to use the most powerful weapons it doesn't mean that the Danish is now useless. Danish was the most offered loom on the market long before this patch and its still a bad ass sword. The Danish was OP. If everyone uses the same damn sword there must be a reason right :P
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: _GTX_ on October 29, 2012, 03:51:27 pm
GTX just because you only want to use the most powerful weapons it doesn't mean that the Danish is now useless. Danish was the most offered loom on the market long before this patch and its still a bad ass sword. The Danish was OP. If everyone uses the same damn sword there must be a reason right :P

I wanna use the most powerful weapon? Ive kept my sword because of the look, style, name and because it was my first weapon. I had it for 2 and a half year, through all patches and nerfs. Yet u say i only want op weapons? go fuck off. Pretty much none of u has sticked with the same weapon, like i did.

No it wasent, but all the 2h danish hate makes it look like it. And if it was so op, why was it the most offered? People wouldent give out their greatest weapon. It was never high on the request list, it was around number 7. So if it was so op, why was the demand way lower, than what they were given out at, thats the exact opposite of what should happen.

PS:I have been known to a be danish greatsword fanboy, because i love the sword and im danish irl. I had it for 2 and a half year, yet im selling mine now.... thats says something. If i dont want the danish, then who does?
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: _GTX_ on October 29, 2012, 03:52:29 pm
No. Polearms use different kind of animations than 2h, so you can't really compare two different classes of weapons.

For example, some 1h can reach as far as 2h with right swing, but with left swing its a different story.

Also, from realism perspective, ever wondered why shorter 2h axes are unbalanced and longer polearm axes aren't? It's because the grip is wider on polearms.

No fucking shit? I dont know the exact numbers on the animations, so i dont write numbers im not sure off. Thats why i use a polearm of 160 lenght, since i know its longer than the 2h.

PS:I have been known to a be danish greatsword fanboy, because i love the sword and im danish irl. I had it for 2 and a half year, yet im selling mine now.... thats says something. If i dont want the danish, then who does?
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Moncho on October 29, 2012, 03:53:43 pm
About the danish, not only it was the most offered, but also the most requested (now it is the great sword) simply because it was so widely used that they changed hands fast. Simply because their number was so high, as it was very powerful (I am not saying OP) and a lot of people used it, some for the look, but most for its effectivity.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: _GTX_ on October 29, 2012, 03:55:11 pm
Not only it was the most offered, but also the most requested (now it is the great sword) simply because it was so widely used that they changed hands fast. Simply because their number was so high, as it was very powerful (I am not saying OP) and a lot of people used it, some for the look, but most for its effectivity.

No it wasent, it was always in the middle of the request, it was a 7 before they released the patch.

PS:I have been known to a be danish greatsword fanboy, because i love the sword and im danish irl. I had it for 2 and a half year, yet im selling mine now.... thats says something. If i dont want the danish, then who does?
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Rebelyell on October 29, 2012, 03:55:39 pm
I wanna use the most powerful weapon? Ive kept my sword because of the look, style, name and because it was my first weapon. I had it for 2 and a half year, through all patches and nerfs. Yet u say i only want op weapons? go fuck off. Pretty much none of u has sticked with the same weapon, like i did.

No it wasent, but all the 2h danish hate makes it look like it. And if it was so op, why was it the most offered? People wouldent give out their greatest weapon. It was never high on the request list, it was around number 7. So if it was so op, why was the demand way lower, than what they were given out at, thats the exact opposite of what should happen.

for me is time to try DGS again because at last is balanced atm,
I have offer for you my alwpike+3 for yours danish and 250k

ahh you are whining hipocrite
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: _GTX_ on October 29, 2012, 03:57:55 pm
for me is time to try DGS again because at last is balanced atm,
I have offer for you my alwpike+3 for yours danish and 250k

ahh you are whining hipocrite
Like people have whined about every class in the game, but im not allowed, when my weapon is horrible compared to other weapons like the glaive?

Im not gonna buy an awlpike... its an op weapon, but im not playing something that gay, i would hate myself for using that. All im after is money atm, since i dont know what weapon im goin for.

PS:I have been known to be a danish greatsword fanboy, because i love the sword and im danish irl. I had it for 2 and a half year, yet im selling mine now.... thats says something. If i dont want the danish, then who does?
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Leshma on October 29, 2012, 03:58:49 pm
Danish is common in EU, on NA side that's Longsword which has been nicely buffed.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Rebelyell on October 29, 2012, 03:59:54 pm
btw leshma where is your offer?

ahh and geylve

I have to agree with you GTX that weapon is just.... its not OP or good.... Gay lvl of that weapon is over 9000k, I jsut hope then in future pach they will nerf that with shaft dmg ect....
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Overdriven on October 29, 2012, 04:03:13 pm
My 2h either uses the Sword of War because it looks bad ass and has a sheath or the Miaodao for style. Not a fan of the Danish...looks too flimsy to me.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: _GTX_ on October 29, 2012, 04:04:36 pm
Its fun how everyone ignored this:

PS:I have been known to be a danish greatsword fanboy, because i love the sword and im danish irl. I had it for 2 and a half year, yet im selling mine now.... thats says something. If i dont want the danish, then who does?

I even wrote in every post i made, yet noone answered.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Leshma on October 29, 2012, 04:04:50 pm
I don't like the look of SoW and it's too heavy for my build.

But Greatsword, it's perfect for my build. Too bad it isn't common and it's pretty damn expensive on market.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Tibe on October 29, 2012, 04:11:21 pm
HAAAAH, after reading I almost got frightened that my regular native Greatsword also got a speed nerf. It didnt, thank god.

 You are wrong GTX, atleast I have always played with one and the same weapon(exept 1 gen when I went arbalest for lolz). My Native Greatsword is my baby, first thing I ever loomed and used, it is a symbol of my nerdiness and will to grind. :lol: I bough it since it was 1 point faster than other gswords, its looked awesome, it didnt bother me that it had shorter range than other GSs and it wasnt as overused as DGS and GGS.

PS: And GTX you are not allowed to whine about every other class in the game like other people since you whine too much already about other stuff. :lol:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: _GTX_ on October 29, 2012, 04:18:19 pm
HAAAAH, after reading I almost got frightened that my regular native Greatsword also got a speed nerf. It didnt, thank god.

 You are wrong GTX, atleast I have always played with one and the same weapon(exept 1 gen when I went arbalest for lolz). My Native Greatsword is my baby, first thing I ever loomed and used, it is a symbol of my nerdiness and will to grind. :lol:

PS: And GTX you are not allowed to whine about every other class in the game like other people since you whine too much already about other stuff. :lol:

Sry if I offended you, it was not my intention.
Have u played for 2 and a half year?

I am only talking about the long 2h weapons, and im allowed to whine as much as i want about it, it received a nerf, while other great weapons didnt.

Sry if u offended me? how is that not offending me? I am rly not gonna care much for what people say, since most of it is from the community.

PS:I have been known to be a danish greatsword fanboy, because i love the sword and im danish irl. I had it for 2 and a half year, yet im selling mine now.... thats says something. If i dont want the danish, then who does? Could someone plz answer this?
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Moncho on October 29, 2012, 04:23:30 pm
Oh I thought it was part of your signature, GTX, as I saw it on a few posts by yourself, and I never read signatures. My reply:
Welcome to the club of people who have had to trade weapons because of nerfs.
A few of mine: My longbow and heavy kite shield from the slot patch (my hybrid 1h/archer build has been nerfed to the point that I might stick to pure shielder from now on), my NCS because I went 12/24, then the niuweidao because I wanted a MW Military cleaver. Then jumping cleaver-horn bow-bodkin arrows-cleaver, back to cleaver and huscarl shield now. (in between this I also decided I wanted no looms, gave them all away a couple of times, regrinded some, etc.)
So yes, some people have been screwed over and over by repeated patches, you are not unique, you just happened to be affected by this one in particular, not even in a strong way, but hey, you have been crying over ranged and other stuff for a while now, I should be used to it

Oh, and please give me -1, hopefully I will never reach your level of infamy at least...
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Tibe on October 29, 2012, 04:36:11 pm
....well okay...I think we can give you this one. But its really not that bad, since weapons like Glaive also got a speednerf etc. And check out the damage on the Highland Claymore compared to my greatysword, holy fucknuggets. I wish I had a Claymore right about now.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: engurrand on October 29, 2012, 04:37:27 pm
sometimes it's not worth it to read analysis from teens.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on October 29, 2012, 04:40:53 pm
I wanna use the most powerful weapon? Ive kept my sword because of the look, style, name and because it was my first weapon. I had it for 2 and a half year, through all patches and nerfs. Yet u say i only want op weapons? go fuck off. Pretty much none of u has sticked with the same weapon, like i did.

No it wasent, but all the 2h danish hate makes it look like it. And if it was so op, why was it the most offered? People wouldent give out their greatest weapon. It was never high on the request list, it was around number 7. So if it was so op, why was the demand way lower, than what they were given out at, thats the exact opposite of what should happen.

To say your the only person whos stuck with a certain weapon since the start is just Bullshit, first gen I was 2her with a GS didnt like it so once I retired (before respecing came in) I went polearm and used the German poleaxe and the normal one, I'm now gen 13 and have been useing my poleaxe since gen 2.

Also, Maybe the weapon was one of the most common weapons sold because it was so popular? meaning I loom it to +3 then sell it for max profit? knowing that allot of people want this weapon and it (was) the most used 2 hander.

Quote from: _GTX_
PS:I have been known to a be danish greatsword fanboy, because i love the sword and im danish irl. I had it for 2 and a half year, yet im selling mine now.... thats says something. If i dont want the danish, then who does?

Maybe no one replied to this because no one really care/pays attention to most of what you say?

....just saying
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: _GTX_ on October 29, 2012, 04:45:43 pm
(click to show/hide)

I could not get much sense out of that. But most of it sounds like u changing opinions and build nerfs, not direct weapon nerfs. The slot patch is not a direct weapon nerf, since it doesnt affect the weapons, that is a build nerf.

Welcome to the people that trade weapons because of nerfs, that sounds like exactly what i said, the weapon is shit and noone wants it. So as u wrote, people change it because of the nerf, since the nerf made it bad. U didnt write anyone that was gonna play it, like i asked.

Anyway with that reply, u did kinda say that the danish sucked.

PS: Do u seriously think i care about infamy? This community is far from fair, it treats the players differently. This counts for both rules and consequences of the action they do, compared to other people.

PS to hunter: Are u dumb? People replied to every other part of the post, but that. I even made it larger, so it would be easier to spot. They didnt answer it, because noone is gonna want to play em. Plz go into a clan thread and talk about how ur strat went again, without knowing anything.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Alexjei on October 29, 2012, 04:49:49 pm
It's a bit confusing that the normal Great Sword is 3 points faster then a German Greatsword whereas it only deals 1 pierce and 2 cut damage less, and it's 3 points shorter which actually isn't a lot.

Same is with the Sword of War and the Danish Greatsword.

Compared to GGS and DGS are the GS and the SoW a lot better now.

That's just my opinion.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on October 29, 2012, 04:50:38 pm
No one wants to play 2h danish hero because it got the nerf that was long overdue for it. Now your nearly on the same playing field as 1handers and polearm users, hell even some other 2h users.

Welcome to the club! here your not god anymore  :twisted:
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Tibe on October 29, 2012, 04:53:41 pm
I dont think there should be a long discussion about it. I just browsed trough the weaponssection and id say everything looks kinda fair to me. Speeds on giant weapons got nerfed and damage buffed and those that didnt got a damage nerf. Not all weapons are for dueling, I can respect that.

I do have a tiny problem thou with the katana being fast as hell and also having higher swing damage than my gsword, but than again the japanese did make this weapon a masterpiece when it came to cuttingpower, so if we bring realism into this, it makes sense.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: cmp on October 29, 2012, 04:54:52 pm
but than again the japanese did make this weapon a masterpiece when it came to cuttingpower.

Reverse psychology?
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Tibe on October 29, 2012, 04:55:31 pm
Reverse psychology?

Pssssshhhhht!!!
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: _GTX_ on October 29, 2012, 04:57:04 pm
No one wants to play 2h danish hero because it got the nerf that was long overdue for it. Now your nearly on the same playing field as 1handers and polearm users, hell even some other 2h users.

Welcome to the club! here your not god anymore  :twisted:

It has been nerfed a ton of times, as everything else has, but its cute to read the obvious hate.

Seriously, i played for 2 years and mastered the weapon. But u think i get good scores because of my weapon, and not me? Go fuck off, i cba with that hate at all. Go learn the basics of combat, then comment on why im doing well.

PS to tiberius: Yes a good deal of long 2H SWORDs got nerfed, not polearm rly.

PS hunter: Plz go bk to the faction thread and talk about strategus, u were doing so well.

Edit: Look at that, danish is alrdy out of requested list.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Tibe on October 29, 2012, 05:05:53 pm
Whacha talking about? Glaive has same speed as Danish and crappier damage, Great Bardice is slow as ass but with high damage, Bec is very low dam etc. And other poles arent that popular. The only poles that need more nerf are Great and Long axe imo. But thats just me now.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: _GTX_ on October 29, 2012, 05:08:26 pm
It does not make much sense to me.

You held onto it for 2 and half years, among other things because you are Danish as well, but you want to trade it after it had it's 2 points from speed migrated into increased pierce and cutting damage?

Migrated into increased pierce and cutting damage? Thats was not a fair trade at all, what was is.... 1+ and 1+ pierce... thats laughable compared to what they removed. Do u know how big a nerf it is, to lose 2 speed?

I didnt only decide to sell it based on this patch, but because of the effect that all the earlier patches had aswell, this was just the last one that rly broke the ice.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Teeth on October 29, 2012, 05:22:49 pm
This thread was a very quick read as I could ignore all GTX's posts, as soon as you've read one you have read them all.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: _GTX_ on October 29, 2012, 05:23:37 pm
To me it is kind of disappointed that you want to sell it. If there was a weapon named after my country, I would NEVER get rid of it, regardless of stats.

BTW, I disagree that losing 2 speed is such a big nerf. Speed is overrated imo... I mean, my current MW weapon's speed that I duel with are as follows:

1h - 94
pole - 88

and I do just fine.

I bet you can still kill as many people as before, but you let the "-2 on speed" take its toll on your concentration.

I have tested it, but i havent actually played at all, with the intention of just having fun. I only played to test it out, and yeah...... Based on the tests, i just wont have fun playing with it.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: peter_afca7 on October 29, 2012, 05:24:43 pm
DGS and GGS is not nerfed in my opinion cause it lost 2 speed and gained damage

but if you chance DGS and GGS you should chance the speed of the GLA and the glaive i never felt really annoyed by fighting a GGS and an DGS but the GLA and the glaive are the worst to fight against they are really fast maybe someone should take a look at that

but ye devs did good job to chance the speed of DGS and GGS cause there where 6 2H almost the same DGS GGS GS SoW highland claymore heavy GS so it was about time to chance it a bit

thx for reading and good luck finding your style speed or damage

again devs did good work
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on October 29, 2012, 05:26:55 pm
To me it is kind of disappointed that you want to sell it. If there was a weapon named after my country, I would NEVER get rid of it, regardless of stats.
ha, that's exactly the reason why I never touched Tears since it got renamed, but that's probably typical german...
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: MayPeX on October 29, 2012, 05:30:18 pm
I have tested it, but i havent actually played at all, with the intention of just having fun. I only played to test it out, and yeah...... Based on the tests, i just wont have fun playing with it.

Maybe you should let someone else play with your sword, or play with someone else's.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: peter_afca7 on October 29, 2012, 05:31:39 pm
To me it is kind of disappointed that you want to sell it. If there was a weapon named after my country, I would NEVER get rid of it, regardless of stats.
yes i want the Dutch Great Sword plz  8-)
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Phew on October 29, 2012, 05:36:39 pm
Speed is a pretty meaningless stat under most circumstances, especially for 2h (since you can hiltslash on both side swing directions rather than wait for the animation to connect). Even a flamberge can maintain the block/attack turn-based paradigm when fighting a katana user. The only time speed really matters is when you and your opponent attack each other at the same time, which is a gamble regardless.

Those greatswords have over 140cm reach on side swings; no one that can outreach you swings faster than you anyway (unless you are worried about the 18blunt on a war spear sideswing).

Also, animation delay is a much bigger influence than weapon speed. In a situation where I need to hit fast as a 1h user, I'd rather left swing with a military hammer (94 speed) than right swing with a Liuyedao (102 speed), because the left swing will always connect first.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: _GTX_ on October 29, 2012, 05:46:18 pm
Maybe you should let someone else play with your sword, or play with someone else's.

(click to show/hide)

They can, i made a trade on marketplace.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Jarlek on October 29, 2012, 05:50:22 pm
yes i want the Dutch Great Sword plz  8-)
Considering what I know of the Dutchmen, this is the stats I would give it:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Nazurdin on October 29, 2012, 05:58:43 pm
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Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Patoson on October 29, 2012, 06:11:21 pm
I have not tried out this new version yet, but, after reading these posts, I must say that the "nerf" is very logical, especially now that "polestagger" is gone.

Gigantic swords should logically be slower than the shorter swords or polearms.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Tor! on October 29, 2012, 06:14:36 pm
You mean, everything should be faster
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: 3 Tears on October 29, 2012, 06:18:18 pm

Dutch Greatsword
weight: 5 (they are all fat bastards)
difficulty: 6 (all the weed makes them easy to be around/use)
speed rating: 80 (but sadly it also makes them a bit slow)
thrust damage: 20 pierce (stick them with the pointy end is something they're not familiar with)
swing damage: 30 (neither are they very sharp)
slots: 2
weapon length: 200 (because, well, you know what I'm talking about!)



Because they are trying to compensate their small


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(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Vodner on October 29, 2012, 06:26:14 pm
Not sure about the Danish, but I like the new German. It's like an awlpike that has sideswings, as well as a higher damage overhead. Now when I'm playing 2h, I take a German for general battle play, and an HBS for any 1v1 fights that show up. The SoW and GS are both decent alternatives for the old Danish.

Still sad that 1h stabs remain heavily nerfed compared to the pre-spin patch, though. All somebody has to do to force a glance is back up and strafe to the side (assuming they have decent ath). Before, you could consistently land solid hits no matter how your opponent moved.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: marcus on October 29, 2012, 06:56:14 pm
Not sure about the Danish, but I like the new German.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Jarlek on October 29, 2012, 07:24:15 pm
(click to show/hide)
It was actually meant the other way.

All the stats and all the commentary I wrote was bad insulting towards them, but it doesn't matter because the hilariously long "reach" of the Dutchmen :D
If you don't know, the Dutch have the largest average penis size in Europe.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: 3 Tears on October 29, 2012, 07:30:10 pm
It was actually meant the other way.

All the stats and all the commentary I wrote was bad insulting towards them, but it doesn't matter because the hilariously long "reach" of the Dutchmen :D
If you don't know, the Dutch have the largest average penis size in Europe.


Orly? Check this out:
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Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Jarlek on October 29, 2012, 07:33:53 pm


Orly? Check this out:
(click to show/hide)
Ah crap. Guess I remembered wrong. My joke is ruined D:
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on October 29, 2012, 07:43:35 pm
France? Big dick size? Yeah good joke  :lol:
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Muunilinst on October 29, 2012, 07:49:08 pm
is it just me or did agi 2h builds got buffed due to the patch?

they dont needed the  +2 speed  but gained dmg so they dont glance at all anymore and  pull out super huge dmg witht he speed bonus?
just went on duel and my build looks completely useless now. ( balanced build) i make less dmg most of the time then agi 2h with 2 less or more ps turn out more dmg. just sometimes i turn out huge dmg but thats the random damage calculator. the increased dmg on gs buffed  agi2h in my opinion.
nerfed are the balanced 2 builds. i deal most of the time less dmg then a agi build im ofc  slower and i can maybe take 1 more hit.

idk how it is about pure str builds but agi 2h seem to be the way to go after patch.

this is not a cry post i think 2h deserved a nerf and maybe not that way but well...
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Teeth on October 29, 2012, 07:52:48 pm
France? Big dick size? Yeah good joke  :lol:
Their sizes were self reported. That is not a joke.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Jarlek on October 29, 2012, 08:05:14 pm
Their sizes were self reported. That is not a joke.
Hehe, that would explain a lot.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Bjord on October 29, 2012, 08:40:12 pm
He's still a Marshall. +1'd anyway, maybe you need 1001 renown?
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Teeth on October 29, 2012, 08:44:56 pm
I'm not destined to be a king. Kings are puppets of Marshalls anyway.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Bjord on October 29, 2012, 08:46:13 pm
That's what Kings want us to believe, Teeth. You will see, you will...
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Angantyr on October 30, 2012, 12:52:59 pm
PS:I have been known to a be danish greatsword fanboy, because i love the sword and im danish irl. I had it for 2 and a half year, yet im selling mine now.... thats says something. If i dont want the danish, then who does?
I will :) medium tier two-handers have certainly come out on top stat-wise but I'm actually content with the nerf (and yes it's a nerf, speed is important and they were already hard-hitting); now DGS has become more exclusive, has lost some of its cheesyness in the community mind, and I can continue using a weapon particular to my forefathers that goes well with my early renaissance character theme without people thinking I'm a stat whore. I would use this sword no matter how much it was nerfed and it has been nerfed ever since it was introduced to cRPG (the by some argued current 'instastab' of great swords notwithstanding, I still haven't instastabbed even once with my balance-AGI build, except against unarmored people).
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Bjord on October 30, 2012, 01:00:01 pm
You are still a lot weaker than my Longsword. :mrgreen:

+2 speed +1 cut, versus your -2 speed +2 cut.

That is, if I get close enough to actually hit. Which I probably will with 7 athletics and such a short weapon.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Angantyr on October 30, 2012, 01:31:51 pm
Definitely, I always thoroughly enjoy wielding the longsword and bastard swords myself :) the longsword, bastard swords and katanas are a lot better for duelling now (and if used correctly I dare say they were slightly better even before the last nerf), DGS and GGS have been pushed even further into the support weapon category now with the claymore, SoW and GS being arguably the best trade off between speed and reach.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Bjord on October 30, 2012, 01:36:03 pm
But in the end, it is the wielder and not the weapon that decides the outcome. :wink:

Frankly I haven't tried my +3 DGS yet post-patch, but I doubt it's as bad as some people (GTX... :rolleyes:) make it out.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Riddaren on October 30, 2012, 02:16:41 pm
But in the end, it is the wielder and not the weapon that decides the outcome. :wink:

Frankly I haven't tried my +3 DGS yet post-patch, but I doubt it's as bad as some people (GTX... :rolleyes:) make it out.

It's still the longest 2H (besides flamberge which is in a category of it's own).
High cut damage and pierce damage.

In battle, I believe the GGS and DGS are still better than any of the shorter 2H's.
But not in duels, of course.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Angantyr on October 30, 2012, 02:23:33 pm
But DGS nerf aside, I've really become fond of the Long Iron Mace, knockdown is so much fun when you're not the one sprawled on the floor ;)

Anyway, the change is pretty evident on the servers; much more 2h variety now, it's a blessing I think.

Now nerf some of the most popular polearms too :)
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Riddaren on October 30, 2012, 02:41:48 pm
But DGS nerf aside, I've really become fond of the Long Iron Mace, knockdown is so much fun when you're not the one sprawled on the floor ;)

Anyway, the change is pretty evident on the servers; much more 2h variety now, it's a blessing I think.

Now nerf some of the most popular polearms too :)

Which polearms would that be?

There is no doubt what polearm is the most "op" right now, since the nerf of heavy lance.
It is the lance which does 5 more damage than the heavy lance. This really makes lance a better choice now.
And it is obvious when you look at the marketplace.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Osiris on October 30, 2012, 02:45:52 pm
no glaive is most op :D



what would be really nice is giving halfswording 2h wpf so its actually somewhat usefull with a greatsword
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Frankysan on October 30, 2012, 02:46:07 pm
But in the end, it is the wielder and not the weapon that decides the outcome. :wink:

Frankly I haven't tried my +3 DGS yet post-patch, but I doubt it's as bad as some people (GTX... :rolleyes:) make it out.
the day i gave you a +1, i'm shocked

a note: as vagabond said, because of the tendency of 2h heroes to go deep into agiwhoring, and even more with the change of the wpf curve, you will soon realize this is more of a buff...
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: _GTX_ on October 30, 2012, 03:19:04 pm
Which polearms would that be?

There is no doubt what polearm is the most "op" right now, since the nerf of heavy lance.
It is the lance which does 5 more damage than the heavy lance. This really makes lance a better choice now.
And it is obvious when you look at the marketplace.

I think he meant some of the other polearms, live the glaive, which didnt get hit at all. It rly needs a nerf, specialy with the other long weapons in 2h getting nerfed. But yeah u might be right about the lances aswell, but i havent rly checked what happened with them, so i wont comment on that.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Osiris on October 30, 2012, 03:24:15 pm
German seemed fine on siege. The pierce on half sword mode would be nice in tight corridors if it didnt go so slow with no wpf :(
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Rebelyell on October 30, 2012, 03:28:24 pm
German seemed fine on siege. The pierce on half sword mode would be nice in tight corridors if it didnt go so slow with no wpf :(
true, no one use that sword  in that mode
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Jarlek on October 30, 2012, 03:35:13 pm
true, no one use that sword  in that mode
I did when I was borrowing Hagurs +3 German. Worked like a charm in the close quarter combat on certain siege maps. Although I did have 100 polearm wpf (120 2h).
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: tizzango on October 30, 2012, 03:36:09 pm
I wanna use the most powerful weapon? Ive kept my sword because of the look, style, name and because it was my first weapon. I had it for 2 and a half year, through all patches and nerfs. Yet u say i only want op weapons? go fuck off. Pretty much none of u has sticked with the same weapon, like i did.

You are a typical min-maxxer. I see you have offered your Danish for the Sword of War, which has near equivalent stats to the Danish pre-patch (minus length, correct me if im wrong). Don't feed this bullshit about "AWWW I AM DANISH I LUV DA DANISH". If we are to say that the DGS was the best 2h pre-patch, the Sword of War is it's successor in terms of weapon stats.

I agree with OP, I think that the DGS was well needed in terms of balancing 2h. We will see a lot more variety, which is good :D!

I'll be reverting to the Great Sword as I like the 93 speed and i'm used to playing with that, I'm just pissed my DGS is not going to get a sale :(
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: _GTX_ on October 30, 2012, 03:45:40 pm
You are a typical min-maxxer. I see you have offered your Danish for the Sword of War, which has near equivalent stats to the Danish pre-patch (minus length, correct me if im wrong). Don't feed this bullshit about "AWWW I AM DANISH I LUV DA DANISH". If we are to say that the DGS was the best 2h pre-patch, the Sword of War is it's successor in terms of weapon stats.

I agree with OP, I think that the DGS was well needed in terms of balancing 2h. We will see a lot more variety, which is good :D!

I'll be reverting to the Great Sword as I like the 93 speed and i'm used to playing with that, I'm just pissed my DGS is not going to get a sale :(
Go fuck off, i had the same weapon for longer than most people. I had it for 2 and a half year. So plz, im not gonna take that bullshit. U probably never had the same weapon for that long, yet u judge me?
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Lt_Anders on October 30, 2012, 03:52:57 pm
Go fuck off, i had the same weapon for longer than most people. I had it for 2 and a half year. So plz, im not gonna take that bullshit. U probably never had the same weapon for that long, yet u judge me?

absolutely.
Selling a weapon because of a patch. Scum. I keep everything i loom cause it represents the work and TIME i put into the game to get this, and the loom is my reward, regardless of how good, or bad it is.

I have looms i barely even use, just because I want them in case I ever decide to have fun and not stat whore.

(also, one class for 2 1/2 years? no originality. Play something else, mix it up, you know...have fun!)
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Leshma on October 30, 2012, 04:00:05 pm
Traded my two Danishes in few hours, both decent trades. It's still very good weapon and wanted, despite the fact that almost everyone has one.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: _GTX_ on October 30, 2012, 04:03:51 pm
absolutely.
Selling a weapon because of a patch. Scum. I keep everything i loom cause it represents the work and TIME i put into the game to get this, and the loom is my reward, regardless of how good, or bad it is.

I have looms i barely even use, just because I want them in case I ever decide to have fun and not stat whore.

(also, one class for 2 1/2 years? no originality. Play something else, mix it up, you know...have fun!)

Its not because of this patch only, as i said, this was just the last push needed to break the ice.

yes, it might seem like that for u, but that doesnt mean it represents the same for me. Thats not how i look at it.

Also, u are telling me to have fun, but at the same time that im a scum for selling a weapon i had for 2 and a half year?. I am selling that weapon, so i can have fun. I cant have fun with such a bad weapon, so im selling it and trying to get something, which i know i will have fun playing with.

Edit to leshma: What did u trade it for? Im finding it rather difficult.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Osiris on October 30, 2012, 04:08:00 pm
why does having the best sword for 2 and a half years mean anything? It always has been one of the best weapons in the game   :rolleyes: its still a very good weapon. its not like your poor old bars :P
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Jarlek on October 30, 2012, 04:12:12 pm
...
I cant have fun with such a bad weapon,
...
41 cut, 25 pierce, 90 speed and 124 length.

It truly is a shitty weapon. Really, the worst in the game.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: TurmoilTom on October 30, 2012, 04:17:50 pm
I love what they did with the greatswords. Some good variety now. Very pleasantly surprising for a weapon balance patch.

Especially for the Heavy Great Sword and Great Bardiche. The HGS is actually heavy compared to other swords now and the GB has 50c damage at +3, which is just flat out badass. Gotta definitely watch out for RipperX now.  :mrgreen:

EDIT: Holy shit just saw the Persian Battle Axe. I know what I'm getting loomed next.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: _GTX_ on October 30, 2012, 05:30:17 pm
GTX, you are making too much noise considering Danish was not even nerfed, but rebalanced.

There are many more people that had their looms nerfed for real. Look at my balance after patch:

Heavy lance: -3 on thrust
Rus Bow: -1 on Damage, -2 on speed, -2 on accuracy, -1 on missle speed

Applying your logic I would have to decapitate whoever's responsible and shit down their throats.

U obv dont have the same meaning to what my logic means. Anyway cba anymore.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Rebelyell on October 30, 2012, 05:37:11 pm
U obv dont have the same meaning to what my logic means. Anyway cba anymore.
soo there is one
or you are whining like always
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Lt_Anders on October 30, 2012, 05:47:08 pm
Also, u are telling me to have fun, but at the same time that im a scum for selling a weapon i had for 2 and a half year?. I am selling that weapon, so i can have fun. I cant have fun with such a bad weapon, so im selling it and trying to get something, which i know i will have fun playing with.

What weird ass logic you have.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Leshma on October 30, 2012, 05:50:23 pm
Edit to leshma: What did u trade it for? Im finding it rather difficult.

First one was for MW Awlpike which isn't that epic since it was straight trade (had better offer but I was dealing with experienced trader).

Second was MW Arba + 100k. Few hours later I've exchanged that MW Arba for MW GLA + 100k. In the end, I've got MW GLA + 200k for MW Danish and I think that's decent trade.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: _GTX_ on October 30, 2012, 06:09:56 pm
What weird ass logic you have.

Ok, well thats ur opinion. Everybody has their own.

Edit to leshma: Huh, had to do a few trades, but u ended up with something nice in the end.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Rebelyell on October 30, 2012, 06:21:09 pm
First one was for MW Awlpike which isn't that epic since it was straight trade (had better offer but I was dealing with experienced trader).

Second was MW Arba + 100k. Few hours later I've exchanged that MW Arba for MW GLA + 100k. In the end, I've got MW GLA + 200k for MW Danish and I think that's decent trade.
shhhh
dont tell peps ho to trade
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Elindor on October 30, 2012, 06:22:22 pm
my MW longsword now 100 speed with 40 cut 25 stab.... love it
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Rebelyell on October 30, 2012, 06:24:12 pm
my MW longsword now 100 speed with 40 cut 25 stab.... love it
nerf it!!!
wait i have one....

thats sword is balanced atm :P
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Phew on October 30, 2012, 06:29:31 pm
Heavy Great Sword is heavy enough to stun many 1-slot shields and faster weapons now on held attacks. That's a powerful tool to have in one's arsenal.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: the real god emperor on October 30, 2012, 06:32:30 pm
All respec and go shielders.Discussion is over.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Falka on October 30, 2012, 06:39:03 pm
Heavy Great Sword is heavy enough to stun many 1-shot shields and faster weapons now on held attacks. That's a powerful tool to have in one's arsenal.

Wait, what? After 2 years Heavy Great Sword isn't useless piece of shit anymore? ... At fifteen, I had the will to  learn ; at thirty, I could stand ; at forty, I had no  doubts ; at fifty, I understood the heavenly Bidding ;  at sixty, my ears were opened ; at seventy, I could  do as my heart lusted without trespassing from the  square.. Now it's official.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Rebelyell on October 30, 2012, 07:07:46 pm
Wait, what? After 2 years Heavy Great Sword isn't useless piece of shit anymore? ... At fifteen, I had the will to  learn ; at thirty, I could stand ; at forty, I had no  doubts ; at fifty, I understood the heavenly Bidding ;  at sixty, my ears were opened ; at seventy, I could  do as my heart lusted without trespassing from the  square.. Now it's official.  :rolleyes:
look at stats its better than SoW is.... Sow is better than danish
i really love that balance on 2h weapoins

Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Rantrex on October 30, 2012, 08:27:58 pm
Game is getting slower and slower :P Everyone blocks everythin (at least on my way) except of peasants.

How about some prices rebalance? Danish and german were most expensive(more expensive PC always do better, right?), so they were the best and op. Actually they are a bit less in compare to bs, hbs and ls, so it would be quite okay, I think, to do something about it.


Btw, you are all cheating only, not even playing, so it doesn't change anything for you...
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Nazurdin on October 30, 2012, 08:32:17 pm
more expensive PC always do better, right?

Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: MazrimX on October 30, 2012, 10:20:44 pm
A word of advice... stay away from the plain jane 2 handed sword... pos!

 :D
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: TurmoilTom on October 30, 2012, 10:46:34 pm
Heavy Great Sword is heavy enough to stun many 1-slot shields and faster weapons now on held attacks. That's a powerful tool to have in one's arsenal.

That's right... And NoSBoH and I already have HGSs at +3.  8-) 8-) 8-)
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Bjord on October 31, 2012, 03:25:08 am
U obv dont have the same meaning to what my logic means. Anyway cba anymore.

Why are you so stupid? Did your mother drop you on the head when you were little or something?

It's a shame really, such a good player but such a very stupid person.

Silly Coward. :wink:
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: The_Slim on October 31, 2012, 03:29:56 am
Very happy my first loom is a GS now.

Feel this was good for value of it as well
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Riddaren on November 01, 2012, 12:31:27 am
If you have ever had two or more of the exact same item and loom level, you don't get very attached to it/them.
I've probably used/abused 5-6 +3 arabian warhorses the last year due to all trading. At one time I had 3 of them.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: SMEGMAR on November 01, 2012, 12:36:49 am
2h swords pre-patch: easy
2h swords post patch: still easy
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Swaggart on November 01, 2012, 04:09:12 am
look at stats its better than SoW is.... Sow is better than danish
i really love that balance on 2h weapoins

Unless I'm misreading the stats on the website...

Heavy Great Sword
weapon length: 120
weight: 3.5
difficulty: 14
speed rating: 91
weapon length: 120
thrust damage: 24 pierce
swing damage: 40 cut
slots: 2

Sword of War
weapon length: 121
weight: 3
difficulty: 15
speed rating: 93
weapon length: 121
thrust damage: 23 pierce
swing damage: 40 cut
slots: 2

Pretty much interchangeable, but the SoW is faster for one less pierce damage.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: rufio on November 01, 2012, 04:53:20 am
0.5 more weight makes it glance less....
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: _GTX_ on November 01, 2012, 08:06:12 am
0.5 more weight makes it glance less....
And stun more. Lesser chance to get stunned itself.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: BlueKnight on November 01, 2012, 10:22:03 am
And stun more. Lesser chance to get stunned itself.
and character's movement speed is lower.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: _GTX_ on November 01, 2012, 10:50:19 am
and character's movement speed is lower.

Yeah, but that doesnt make up for all the bonuses. But Yeah mabybe it needs a little buff, but its not too bad at all. There is way more unbalanced weapons in c-rpg atm. There is for sure unbalanced weapons if u look weapon class vs weapon class, this is rly small case.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Vodner on November 01, 2012, 11:14:06 am
0.5 more weight makes it glance less....
Weight does not factor into damage (http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?topic=168722.0), and glancing is purely a matter of failing to meet a fairly low damage threshold ('damage_interrupt_attack_threshold_mp' in the 'module.ini' file). Unless there is something I've missed (please point it out if I have), I can't see how weight would affect glances.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Rebelyell on November 01, 2012, 11:15:50 am
and character's movement speed is lower.
naked you will be never to slowe :P

HGS king of 2h
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Phew on November 01, 2012, 01:40:13 pm
And stun more. Lesser chance to get stunned itself.

Weight is the most underrated stat when comparing weapons. I know that a large percentage of my deaths as a shielder are because someone smacked my shield with a held attack from a Bar Mace or similar, and my attempt at a counter-attack simply results in me standing there like an idiot because I was block stunned.

I think weapons can stun shields up to twice their weight, and the vast majority of 1-slot shields are 7 kg or less. I think weapons can only stun lighter weapons when they block (I'd love to know for sure), so a HGS wielder can run around holding thrusts and stun people from 2m away, then jump in for the kill. English Bill/Flamberge are in the next tier, being able to consistently stun people from ~1.75m, but right now HGS is king of long range+heavy weapons.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Jarlek on November 01, 2012, 02:09:47 pm
Weight does not factor into damage (http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?topic=168722.0), and glancing is purely a matter of failing to meet a fairly low damage threshold ('damage_interrupt_attack_threshold_mp' in the 'module.ini' file). Unless there is something I've missed (please point it out if I have), I can't see how weight would affect glances.
No no no, that's all wrong.

The interrupt attack threshold is when you get damaged, but not interrupted. You know how in native if you take 1 damage, your swing isn't canceled? That's what the *damage_interrupt_attack_threshold_mp' is (also one without the "_mp" for single player).

In Native it's set to 3 for SP and 1 for MP.

In cRPG they set it to 0 IIRC, when they changed the armour soak values.

Glancing is when you do 0 damage due to low PS, weapon damage, hitting too early in the animation etc.

Although you are correct, weight doesn't have jack shit to do with it. It's just heavier weapons generally having high enough damage to not glance unless you hit too early in the animation.


Edit: Why the - Teeth?
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: _GTX_ on November 01, 2012, 06:13:10 pm
Weight is the most underrated stat when comparing weapons. I know that a large percentage of my deaths as a shielder are because someone smacked my shield with a held attack from a Bar Mace or similar, and my attempt at a counter-attack simply results in me standing there like an idiot because I was block stunned.

I think weapons can stun shields up to twice their weight, and the vast majority of 1-slot shields are 7 kg or less. I think weapons can only stun lighter weapons when they block (I'd love to know for sure), so a HGS wielder can run around holding thrusts and stun people from 2m away, then jump in for the kill. English Bill/Flamberge are in the next tier, being able to consistently stun people from ~1.75m, but right now HGS is king of long range+heavy weapons.

I have never seen anyone being stunned for so long, because they blocked, that he couldent block the next attack again.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Smoothrich on November 01, 2012, 08:50:43 pm
I have never seen anyone being stunned for so long, because they blocked, that he couldent block the next attack again.

This is true, but sometimes you don't expect to be stunned so you tap block immediately, the input doesn't go through in time and you will be hit by the counter swing.  Discovered how brutal this was when I was dueling as a swashbuckler against San using a Steel Pick.  Didn't expect a 64 reach 1hander to weapon stun your NCS on every swing :(

I have to admit I stopped using a Sword of War pre patch because the extra weight was very noticeable on my character.  Not sure if weapon weight is calculated different from armor in your agility, but I didn't like it.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Leshma on November 01, 2012, 08:54:23 pm
Some people are very interested in my MW Two Handed sword. Haven't tried it yet tbh.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Rebelyell on November 01, 2012, 10:11:24 pm
Some people are very interested in my MW Two Handed sword. Haven't tried it yet tbh.
still shitty weapon, at last for me.


Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: BlueKnight on November 01, 2012, 11:11:30 pm
I think weapons can only stun lighter weapons when they block (I'd love to know for sure)

Before the patch I had my block of German Greatsword stunned by longsword which really surprised me, so stunning weapon doesn't have to be heavier but it has n-times bigger chance if it weights more.

Still don't understand how somebody with 1,8 weight weapon could stun block of 2,5 weight weapon but it looks like it's possible then.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Kafein on November 01, 2012, 11:33:36 pm
Before the patch I had my block of German Greatsword stunned by longsword which really surprised me, so stunning weapon doesn't have to be heavier but it has n-times bigger chance if it weights more.

Still don't understand how somebody with 1,8 weight weapon could stun block of 2,5 weight weapon but it looks like it's possible then.

Strength matters.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Phew on November 02, 2012, 02:16:23 pm
I have never seen anyone being stunned for so long, because they blocked, that he couldent block the next attack again.

What happens (at least to me):
-I block
-get stunned
-don't realize I'm stunned, so I try to counter-attack
-No attack occurs (I'm thinking "this must be lag", so I keep mashing attack button)
-I don't block, because in my brain, I'm thinking "it's my 'turn', so I get to attack now"
-I die

Having to block twice in a row without getting to attack in between is a rare enough occurrence in crpg that it totally throws most people off their rhythm. It's not like knockdown where you're like "oh, I'm on the ground, I can't attack now", the cues that you are stunned are much more subtle. By the time most players realize they are stunned, it's too late to switch to a block.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: _GTX_ on November 02, 2012, 04:00:21 pm
What happens (at least to me):
-I block
-get stunned
-don't realize I'm stunned, so I try to counter-attack
-No attack occurs (I'm thinking "this must be lag", so I keep mashing attack button)
-I don't block, because in my brain, I'm thinking "it's my 'turn', so I get to attack now"
-I die

Having to block twice in a row without getting to attack in between is a rare enough occurrence in crpg that it totally throws most people off their rhythm. It's not like knockdown where you're like "oh, I'm on the ground, I can't attack now", the cues that you are stunned are much more subtle. By the time most players realize they are stunned, it's too late to switch to a block.

Fight some fast 1hs, and u gotta get used to it. They will try to double left swing constantly :P. It also usually works because of the pure speed, without too much footwork.

Anyway, so u could actually block the next attack, its just the stun throwing u off, when u want to attack back.
Title: Re: An overview of 2h swords pre and post patch
Post by: Shemaforash on November 03, 2012, 03:51:35 pm
Fight some fast 1hs, and u gotta get used to it. They will try to double left swing constantly :P. It also usually works because of the pure speed, without too much footwork.

Anyway, so u could actually block the next attack, its just the stun throwing u off, when u want to attack back.

Bad one handers might...