The only thing needing fixing is removing the spin stabbing (from all weapons, not just 2H) so the stab is an attack you use from distance, at close range it would just bounce and be useless. Otherwise it is fine imo.
and with that all spears will be useless and the only thing which stay is twohander over all
Polearms already have longer reach on swings
Polearms already have longer reach on swings
Polearms already have longer reach on swings and fast animations...
Polearms already have longer reach on swings
2h
Overhead = +15
Left-to-right = +17
Right-to-left = +13
Thrust = +30
2h Polearms
Overhead = -15
Left-to-right = -7
Right-to-left = -2
Thrust = +19
and with that all spears will be useless and the only thing which stay is twohander over all
trololo
The +80 on thrust is the old pre-patch animantion, now it has been nerfed to ~+30. Try fighting vs a Glaive with a German Greatsword and you will see the 158 range right swing outreaches your stab.
Polearms already have longer reach on swings and fast animations, there would be no reason to stay with 2h if there is no more lolstab.This.
If anything, there would be less 2h and more polearm users.
I agree that lolstab is OP, however lolstab is also the only fucking reason to pick 2h over polearm.
Not really. (http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,118906.0.html) The overhead swing animation for two-handed weapons gives them the reach of a polearm 30 length longer. The side swing animations for two-handed weapons gives them the reach of a polearm about 20 length longer. I recently tested the new thrust animation for two-handed weapons and determined that it gives them the reach of a polearm of about 65 length longer. You can test the thrust reach difference yourself with a practice longsword, scythe, long awlpike, and a wall if you need more convincing.
I have shown that it takes the same amount of time to complete an attack (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,2531.msg43795.html#msg43795) with a two-handed weapon and polearm with the same weapon speed. I would guess there is probably very little difference in the actual time between releasing a swing and it landing a hit for both types of weapons as I have seen roughly equal number of claims of two-handed weapons and polearm each seeming to be faster than the other.
I agree that lolstab is OP, however lolstab is also the only fucking reason to pick 2h over polearm.
Afaik, all the spears have 4 attacks. That's hardly useless if lolstab gets removed.And rendering awlpikes useless (not a spear, I know). It's too short to be an effective support weapon and with any turnstabbing, it's useless in 1v1 too.
And your assumption that everyone will use 2h... Polearms already have longer reach on swings and fast animations, there would be no reason to stay with 2h if there is no more lolstab.
If anything, there would be less 2h and more polearm users.
Afaik, all the spears have 4 attacks. That's hardly useless if lolstab gets removed. And your assumption that everyone will use 2h... Polearms already have longer reach on swings and fast animations, there would be no reason to stay with 2h if there is no more lolstab.LIES!
If anything, there would be less 2h and more polearm users.
Lolstab has really high damage, the stab is really fast and if you spin it a lot there is delay between the animation hit and actual hit, also it is long ranged. Compared to polearms the 2h stab is about 155 polearm reach. Just look at the amount of German Greatswords you see lying on the battlefield. Everyone realizes its potency for quick kills.
Nothing more tiresome than have everyone I duel chamber his thrust as soon as they get a little room, always forcing me to block with my supposedly 'long' hafted blade.
So I think this stab could be made a little less powerful.
Polearms already have longer reach on swings and fast animations, there would be no reason to stay with 2h if there is no more lolstab.
If anything, there would be less 2h and more polearm users.
The long halfted blade sideswing outreaches the lolstab, and the animation is fast if not faster that theLIES! I tested this and the stab outreaches the long hafted blade swing by about this much |--------|
lolstab.
So you find it natural to be able to stab at point blank with a spear but not with a 2H.
Afaik, all the spears have 4 attacks. That's hardly useless if lolstab gets removed.
And rendering awlpikes useless (not a spear, I know). It's too short to be an effective support weapon and with any turnstabbing, it's useless in 1v1 too.
The +80 on thrust is the old pre-patch animantion, now it has been nerfed to ~+30.
Where are you getting the +30 range value? My testing puts the current reach of a practice longsword thrust (length 117) as longer than a two-handed scythe thrust (length 182) and shorter than a long awlpike thrust (length 185). This puts the reach of the two-handed thrust animation at about +85 if Stabbing Hobo's +19 value (http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,118906.0.html) is still correct for the two-handed polearm thrust animation.
I compared the range of a Glaive's right swing (160-2=158) with the range of the German Greatsword thrust (123 lenght). The Glaive's right swing outreaches the German Greatsword's thrust, so the max range you can get from the stab animation is 157-123=34.
Don't post while stoned kids, walt isn't right. 110+85=195 vs 182-19=163. So the great sword should outreach the scythe. Which it clearly doesn't
Shogun mod for Warband fixed spinning and stabbing, don't know how they did it. You were no longer able to spin your character as fast as mouse sensitivity would allow, made your character kind of twist at normal-ish speeds & made lolstabbing(spinning while thrusting to hit close range) pretty impossible, at least for me due to the character not being able to turn at warp speed.
I don't know how to explain it very well lol
I didn't test the other lolstab (aiming at the ground thrusting and pointing the camera to your opponent)
The example I gave was the with the length 117 practice longsword. So the math should be:
Practice longsword: 117 + at least 85 = at least 202
Scythe: 182 + 19 = 201
Here is a video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woesVWoCtkM) of me being in range with the practice longsword thrust but not in range with the scythe thrust. I remapped the attack button to my keyboard to insure that the orientations of the attacks was constant during the test.
The reach of the practice longsword thrust is certainly less than the length 190 heavy lance thrust. There seems to be very small variations in the weapon animations or the distances between objects as I could find positions at which both the practice longsword thrust and length 185 long awlpike thrust would both hit some attacks but not others without moving. Because of this, I think that the reach of the practice longsword thrust is nearly identical to the long awlpike thrust. This puts the reach of the two-handed thrust animation at about +87.
EDIT: Fixed typo.
You can't compare their thrusts, the scythes right swing is longer than it's thrust.
Are you talking about the singleplayer? If so, that's true of even vanilla singleplayer. I don't recall Shogun mod having multiplayer, so that's what I'm assuming you're talking about.
WaltF4 there is a distance where you can block the attack but it won't hit. It could be there are differences between hitting a person, hitting a block or hitting a wall.
Not saying you are wrong, I'm just wondering how much bashing the wall is worth it. :)
Shouldn't the +reach on lolstab be about 30 and not 70+?
In testing they say it's 70+, no idea why.
In a real-life scenario (well, in cRPG i mean :P), it has about ~30, pick a Glaive and you will see the Glaive's158160 range right swing outreaches the German Greatsword's stab. So that would mean max +range from stab is 157-123=+34.
There is indeed a distance where a defender can block a thrust but would not be hit by the same thrust. However that does not change the distance between the attacker and the object that stops the thrust provided both thrusts are blocked or both thrusts strike the defender. Every test I have conducted with inanimate and live targets has yielded the same results for how the colliders interact.
What I don't understand in Walt's test is the reason for using the Scythe for comparation.
But you used stabbing hobo's value of +19. Did stabbing hobo take into account the phantom reach?
I was talking about the stab being blockable while not actually being able to hit the enemy. If stabbing hobo's value of +19 is based on being able to hit the enemy and not just being blockable wouldn't that throw of your value?