cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Michael on July 14, 2012, 09:28:56 am

Title: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: Michael on July 14, 2012, 09:28:56 am
Some reasons for a team death match server

I totally understand that a developer doesnt want to waste time with a product when he has doubts that this product will be a success.

I will present the most important advantages of a team death match server. Hopefully a developer takes some time to read and think about it.

I dont expect a complicated money and xp system.

Players go to duel server not for money or xp. They go there to improve their skill, or simply because they like some one on one action.
Same would be with team death match server. Players would play there because they want to have some fun.

A) So, now why is team death match more fun than battle?

1) No annoying waiting time. You log in, you spawn, you are in the action, you have some fun. Simple.

2) More bravehearts. In battle, at least in EU1, everyone is some sort of a coward. Scared of dying early (and having to wait for several minutes) for the next round, they hide, camp, run, and if they go in combat, then only when they have more numbers on their side. If they see the team will lose, even more hiding and try to get the valor (besides, valor should be for valiant warriors only, not for some coward hiding/ camping with a crossbow)

3) Less rage, anger, insults
Most of the hate in-game (in my opinion) is based on frustration. Players are frustrated in real-life, want to relax and play a videogame, spawn and get raped by a lancer. Next round, they get one-shotted by a ranger. Some start insulting in-game chat, others rage-quit, and rage on the forums.
On a team death match server the people just play the game. You die, and you immediately respawn. There is no time to argue with anyone.

B) So, now why is team death match more fun than siege, capture the flags, .....
Well, simple. Siege, capture the flags and similiar game types dont make any sense. It doesnt matter how many you kill or how often you die. Just noob-rush to a certain point and eventually hold it for some time.
Team Death Match is, of course, somewhat beginner-friendly, but thats not a problem, is it? From what I see in native, players try to give their best in team death match, try to improve their personal skill. Noone wants to be the guy who brings the team down.

Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: Falka on July 14, 2012, 10:08:42 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: Ptolemy on July 14, 2012, 10:50:18 am
4. Gets those fucking morons off the rageball server.
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: Malaclypse on July 14, 2012, 10:55:02 am
Yes, many people already agree with you (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,18324.msg471538.html#msg471538). A fairly overwhelming percent, so it will probably never happen. Strategus is basically Team Deathmatch without the ability to jump right in any old time.
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on July 14, 2012, 11:03:56 am
I gave up hope on this getting implemented.  :(
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: Miwiw on July 14, 2012, 12:19:11 pm
How would the multiplier system work in TDM? One multi for each kill, reset to x1 by death? Or simply no multiplier and always x1? I don't know, but I found this being an interesting question.

However I agree, I loved playing TDM on native.
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: Teeth on July 14, 2012, 12:26:52 pm
How would the multiplier system work in TDM? One multi for each kill, reset to x1 by death? Or simply no multiplier and always x1? I don't know, but I found this being an interesting question.

However I agree, I loved playing TDM on native.
Play ten minute rounds, the team that wins gets a multiplier for the next ten minutes and so on.

I am not sure if the devs want to split the community between even more servers, battle seems to have a hard time filling up more recently, the continously full server during weeknights seem gone, well it doesn't hit 120 anymore that easily.
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: Falka on July 14, 2012, 12:54:13 pm
I am not sure if the devs want to split the community between even more servers, battle seems to have a hard time filling up more recently, the continously full server during weeknights seem gone, well it doesn't hit 120 anymore that easily.

30 slots tdm server instead of current EU5 wouldn't kill battle.

How would the multiplier system work in TDM? One multi for each kill, reset to x1 by death? Or simply no multiplier and always x1? I don't know, but I found this being an interesting question.

The simplest solution, constant x1.

Quote
I dont expect a complicated money and xp system.

Players go to duel server not for money or xp. They go there to improve their skill, or simply because they like some one on one action.
Same would be with team death match server. Players would play there because they want to have some fun.
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: Taser on July 14, 2012, 02:04:39 pm
Would definitely like this. Could be 10 minutes or first to 150 or 200. Native TDM was so fun.
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: Banok on July 14, 2012, 02:09:39 pm
rageball.
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: Lactating Vegetables on July 14, 2012, 02:13:16 pm
... first to 150 or 200...

That would be too short imo, Maybe to about 300-500 it makes the rounds longer and generally gives the teams a chance, like if team A is loosing badly to Team B, having the extra points before game end, gives them the chance to turn it around. nothing like a suprise in the middle ;)
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on July 14, 2012, 02:13:42 pm
30 slots tdm server instead of current EU5 wouldn't kill battle.

The simplest solution, constant x1.
Why would you kill EU5 for that? just played once on it when i made a new alt yesterday, awesome fun and big help for low lvls.

x1 all the time would be fine for me.

rageball.
what? you mean as another reasonable reason for TDM or you should play TDM there?
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: MrShine on July 14, 2012, 03:42:13 pm
The suggestion honestly isn't that bad, but I gave you a minus out of general principle because any good Michael topic is a hidden topic.
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: Elindor on July 14, 2012, 04:24:36 pm
I do think people would LOVE TDM and i havent seen a concrete reason from devs as to why we cant have one.

TDM is the best way to EXPERIENCE the COMBAT MECHANICS in this game (the combat mechanics that you cant find in any other game yet)
- TDM doesnt have the wait of battle and with that come many changes from battle (similar to what michael said)
- TDM doesnt have the naturally imbalanced combat scenarios of siege - no side is charging up ladders to be mauled to death

MOST people in siege or battle would PROBABLY RATHER be playing TDM at any given time - id bet money on it, and Im SURE a poll would show that easily.

---

Really all im asking for is a simple "We cant do TDM for this reason _________" from devs.  Im just curious to know why not.  Someone told me its a multiplier issue, but how is it any diff than siege or battle?  There is a winner of a round, they get multiplier.  If the server is too small, there is none - just like siege.
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: Falka on July 14, 2012, 05:05:04 pm
Why would you kill EU5 for that? just played once on it when i made a new alt yesterday, awesome fun and big help for low lvls.

Oh, I forgot EU5 isn't siege server anymore  :wink:
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: Michael on July 14, 2012, 06:05:46 pm
If I understood cmp, there should be space for another server.

Also, like Teeth said, the time when there was a full EU1 in the evening seems to be gone.
Pecores Server is almost always almost empty.
Not sure about the other servers.

But I am certain a team death match server would attract more people, new ones and keep veterans.

Battle is dominated by a few (no offense intended) "Nerds", who have the char, the computer, the internet connection and the "skill", and the other players get frustrated (and leave). At least this is my impression.

There isnt much life in native left, but you almost always find some people on team death match servers (wolfpack, zhg, some new names) for named reasons.

When people dont have that much time, they want to play the game.
When you are not very skilled and/ or have no awareness, in battle most of your playtime is "waiting".
And in crpg the situation is even more complicated. Other players are not simply better, they also have better chars, deal more damage, can take more, are faster, .........., so for some players even more time to wait.
This, and as we all know this community is full of not so polite people to say the least.

When a guy has one hour free-time, he probably doesnt want to spend with 20 minutes waiting and 30 minutes more hiding to not die so early again, plus after each death to read in chat how "shitty (his skill)" he is and how some 15-year-old-wangsta writes about where he fucked his mom. 
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: Elindor on July 14, 2012, 06:17:24 pm
this michael guy may be a troll according to the general community - but he has some good points here.

TDM is probably the most active thing in native nowadays and I think it would help crpg too because as Michael mentioned, it just lets people get on and FIGHT (and improve bc more practice)
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: Lannistark on July 14, 2012, 06:36:44 pm
Use EU4. As Teeth said, it is unlikely EU1 gets fill, therefore, what do you need EU4 for? As the devs did with siege (there was no need for 2 servers with that game-mode), I suggest the same but with EU4, changing it's mode to Team Deathmatch.
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: Slev23 on July 14, 2012, 07:50:02 pm
TDM solves everything garbage about crpg, lancer cav and archers aren't annoying because they're necessarily op, but because they kill you repeatedly and force you in to playing a game of "spectator".
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: Banok on July 14, 2012, 11:56:35 pm

what? you mean as another reasonable reason for TDM or you should play TDM there?

I'm saying most people alreay play TDM in rageball server
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: Overdriven on July 15, 2012, 12:08:25 am
Been wanting TDM for ages and its been suggested countless times. Implement it already!
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: Havoco on July 15, 2012, 01:38:19 am
DM first
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: Elindor on July 15, 2012, 02:02:29 am
DM is just chaos....duel server without having to approve duels.
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: Tindel on July 15, 2012, 02:24:26 am
tdm would kill all the other gametypes.

No reason to ever play siege or battle or that other shit ever again.

Its the only argument against it.

I would love a tdm server :)
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: Slev23 on July 15, 2012, 02:33:18 am
Yup and it sucks, I dislike siege, but battle is too frustrating. I don't come on crpg to play "spectate the good players" I come on crpg to play "mount and blade". Sadly, crpg is mostly just, "spectate the good players" now-a-days.
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on July 15, 2012, 10:45:40 am
For me TDM has complete different purpose, and I think battle is 1000 times better. Still want TDM for various reasons already mentioned.
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: Protemus on July 15, 2012, 12:28:25 pm
Why would anyone want to play TDM or DM,it sucks...I mean where's the point,where's the pleasure in killing someone if he's gonna respawn in 1 freaking second
Battle is realistic,you need skill to survive and even if you die,you can spectate players who are are good and learn something from them

Therefor,I find this thread made by a raging kido who sucks in fighting and who's not being patient enough to wait for respawning,and if you like to respawn instantly,Siege is always open
                                          -herby this thread is locked for me,pointless trolling,no further comments
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: Tzar on July 15, 2012, 02:58:59 pm
This mode would kill battle since it would be a helluva lot more fun.

But i don't think the devs like it so i guess that's why it haven't been implemented yet.

They should tho.. battle is boring as fuck.. plus people who prefer battle could still play on the server i don't see why we cant have both.
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: Dalhi on July 15, 2012, 03:05:01 pm
The only thing that I like about the idea of TDM server is a fact that it would attract great amount of mindless players so they would never ever again enter a battle server.
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: Tzar on July 15, 2012, 03:08:17 pm
The only thing that I like about the idea of TDM server is a fact that it would attract great amount of players who are tired of being couched by some random lancer nub hero or 1 shotted in the face by some of the 31414234234 high lvl archers we have an have to wait for 4 min so they would never ever again enter a battle server.

Fixed.

Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on July 17, 2012, 12:26:28 pm
I think it is really stupid to make a battle vs. TDM discussion out of this. Who cares what you like better? Just implement it.
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: Michael on July 17, 2012, 03:01:32 pm
Why would anyone want to play TDM or DM,it sucks...I mean where's the point,where's the pleasure in killing someone if he's gonna respawn in 1 freaking second

First, there is a big difference between death match and team death match. When you dont know even that, you d better start doing your homework kiddo before trying to argue with mature people that are more experienced in these things than you.

Second, when you dont like (or understand) team death match, you are not forced to play it.

Third, first read, then think, then write. In that order. Not sure where you failed, but you failed. Hard.

Quote
Battle is realistic,you need skill to survive and even if you die,you can spectate players who are are good and learn something from them

I have mastered battle long before you even knew that warband existed. I know how it is. Even with a skip the fun char with crap gear I usually survive till the end, not by hiding, but by playing smarter than most, what isnt a big deal in this community where even many clan players know very little to almost nothing about proper behavement on the battlefield.
Team death match is the mode where you learn the most. Just try it yourself. Go to a native team death match server. Take a one-hander, no shield. Bows in native are more like modern semi-automatic sniper rifles, there is cavalry always there waiting to backstab unaware people. Team death match will sharpen your senses, you will learn how and when to sneak past archers, to get a feeling what cavalry will do and when you constantly use a one-hander, you will learn to parry. You will probably never be as good as Weren at his prime, but you definately will become better than you are now and how you do by spectating the good players.

Quote
Therefor,I find this thread made by a raging kido who sucks in fighting and who's not being patient enough to wait for respawning,

lol

Quote
and if you like to respawn instantly,Siege is always open

It was already mentionned (by different people) why siege is silly and that team death match has nothing in common with siege. By the way, although havent played siege for years, I remember a waiting time and limited spawns on defenders side if I am not mistaken. 
                             
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: Lannistark on July 17, 2012, 03:58:03 pm
Best reason: There is a thread about it
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: Michael on July 17, 2012, 04:14:54 pm
this thread made by a raging kido who sucks in fighting and who's not being patient enough to wait for respawning


A picture most likely says more than words.


Here you go:
(click to show/hide)
I took this screenshot yesterday, in the evening, on EU1.
Before I could play, I spent 13 hours at work, then had to do some other real-life-stuff.
I had a headache and was damn tired. I am not as smart as Gnjus, so I have a job where I really have to work and I am exhausted afterwards.
Whatever.

The death my guy had to suffer was at the very end of the first round when he belonged to the losing team.

When I am blessed with a good team, I usually dont die for a whole map.
Another skip the fun peasant, this time footman (one-hand-shield)
(click to show/hide)

and two-hander:
(click to show/hide)

And a very old screenshot, crossbow
(click to show/hide)


Hopefully we now can get back to the topic: I WANT A TEAM DEATH MATCH SERVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: Elindor on July 17, 2012, 04:28:17 pm
Yeah I know its hard for people in crpg forums to discuss the ACTUAL TOPIC - but the topic is "TDM would be good to implement"
reading comprehension is hard.

Things that are NOT the topic:
- Michael is bad at battle
- battle is better than siege
- anything else

And yes TDM is different than battle or siege.

And I would state again that 70-80% of all players in BOTH modes are actually playing with a TDM mindset anyhow. 

PS
The battle elitism is hilarious (I do well in battle so don't even start).  Battle has just as much gangbanging as siege.  No one fights anyone till they have a numbers advantage of like 4 to 1, then they charge and try to killsteal their allies.

I like battle, just saying - it's not this true test of individual skill.  That's duel imho. 
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: Dionysus on July 18, 2012, 07:59:20 pm
When Mount and Musket became Napoleonic Wars, I absolutely sucked at melee. To fix this, I spent a tremendous amount of time in Duel and Team Deathmatch, and soon no one in my regiment could beat me. I'm not trying to brag; there were still players who could destroy me, but what I'm trying to say is that TDM really allows players to become comfortable with the game. I fully support it.
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: Joker86 on July 18, 2012, 08:07:31 pm
Then I would like to throw in a small variation, and perhaps it pleases people more because it contains a gamemode for both extremes, but on the other hand both gamemodes also contain elements from each other, to please the people who are more in between:


(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: Overdriven on July 18, 2012, 08:11:58 pm
When Mount and Musket became Napoleonic Wars, I absolutely sucked at melee. To fix this, I spent a tremendous amount of time in Duel and Team Deathmatch, and soon no one in my regiment could beat me. I'm not trying to brag; there were still players who could destroy me, but what I'm trying to say is that TDM really allows players to become comfortable with the game. I fully support it.

Pretty much the same. That's also where I learnt how to fight cav properly, in Mount and Musket TDM. I spent many hours standing in the corner of a field with my bayonet killing cav after cav that came to try and kill me. It's one of the best way to hone your skills and quite a challenge. I much prefer TDM over Battle but we should really have both.
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: Sarpton on July 18, 2012, 08:32:17 pm
I support this Idea as long as its Tdm  not DM, with TDM it still puts a vague sense of what direction to go in and thus improves over all "flow" of a fight.  But TDM is a GREAT GREAT help to learning the actual game and make minor changes to playstyle.  There is no reason NOT to have it beyond the battle servers would be far more empty.
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: Tzar on July 19, 2012, 12:13:18 am
GIVE US A TDM SERVER chadz!!!!!
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: Michael on July 19, 2012, 06:30:03 pm
tdm would kill all the other gametypes.

No reason to ever play siege or battle or that other shit ever again.




No. I would always play battle.

Its not either........or, its both.

Get rid of siege. 
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: Lannistark on July 20, 2012, 08:59:03 am
Just put it through and expect reactions from the community. After that, decide what you keep on and why.
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: Torost on July 20, 2012, 09:22:46 am
TDM server would improve the Battleserver in many ways.

Mainly by providing an alternative to all the 2handers and Poleguys that think that CHARGE! is optimal play every round no matter what. Thus dragging along the entire team on a circlemarathonrun to catch low levels and afkers...

Maybe Battleserver could start to feel like a "real" battle...
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: Trikipum on July 20, 2012, 10:12:13 am
The problem with team death match is that it becomes boring quickly. Killing without a real objetive is kinda meh for most ppl after a while....
What about getting some death match mode but with respawns and "bases". You see, we already have ppl who want to play enginers and crap. What about a new mode "Assault" or something like that. Constant spawning plus a pair of objetives. The idea is... let guys build crap around some item the other team should destroy. Each side posseses one and have to destroy the other team one. The mechanics are actually there, and i believe it would be fun. Having half the team defending and half team attacking would lead to some new and interesting gameplay.
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: BlameMeForTheNoise on July 20, 2012, 10:32:57 am
I would really like a TDM-Server. Every once in a while when I loathe for some Deathmatch I have to load up native. And I enjoy the hell out of it.
But I would rather have a cRPG_TDM or DM-Server. I want to fight in Deathmatch with my Custom-cRPG-Character!
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: Teeth on July 20, 2012, 10:50:00 am
I have to load up native. And I enjoy the hell out of it.
And then you get on an open map and everybody goes ranged or cav.

The only reason I play Siege now and then is because I just want to fight. Team deathmatch is the best way to fill your playtime with actual fighting. Cause in siege I'm just there to have fun with the combat and I don't care for the flag mostly. So when I'm having a great groupfight at the arse end of the map I wouldn't think about going to the flag, cause I'm having fun. Which makes me a burden for people who want to play siege like its meant to be played. So give mindless fighters like me a server for themselves.
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: MB passionately on July 20, 2012, 10:56:40 am
Nice idea  :D

It doesnt have to be a 50 people server, 20-30 slots are more than enough, best servers on native are ZHG or Wolfpack servers with 30 slots.

So far people have to play siege servers to test their new equipment, which can turn out to be very costly. TDM servers dont have to bring money, it all about fun.

Are more servers good for a community? One server more or less won´t solve the general problem (not enough fresh blood in crpg)
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on July 20, 2012, 12:27:30 pm
The problem with team death match is that it becomes boring quickly. Killing without a real objetive is kinda meh for most ppl after a while....
no problem here. Play TDM for half an hour to get warm and have fun, then play something else.
Title: Re: Reasonable reasons for a team death match server
Post by: wanteds on July 21, 2012, 10:49:04 am
I would surely spend all my time in a TDM server if there was one. The waiting time after death in battle servers just kills the mood.