if i'm wearing light - medium armour (27 body, 25 leg), and i get bumped by a champion courser, it'll take off about a 1/2 - 2/3 of my hp.
This is bloody ridiculous.
It's realistic that it fucking hurts.
No, it's not.
The bump damage got increased by a good margin because in old crpg all infantry would just jump into the horse to not get any damage at all.
Wear some armour and the damage isn't something to fuss about at all, unless you are already severely injured, or it's a very high charge horse moving at speed (destrier for instance).
Horses have too much HP & running into a chambered weapon should hurt the horse (but, if you want to argue realism, so should the horse corpse, both to the rider and especially the trampled, so stabbing a horse upfront with a short weapon is a risky proposition).
However.
A running light-armoured archer has no right complaining about how he gets trampled wearing his rags.
A running light-armoured archer has no right complaining about how he gets trampled wearing his rags; don't care if the kill gets added to the cavalryman or the Champion Courser gets the kill, but an agile character could always, pre-horsebump, avoid damage by intentionally jumping into the horse. Which is quite easy, since there's no inertia for infantry in warband. It was the stupidest defense in the game.
The bump isn't that bad...even on an armored horse its weak.
Anything to make inf easier right? Nerf ranged, nerf cav, nerf xbow, nerf throwing.
Nerf nerfs.
not bad ?! it 2 shot kills me !!!! champion courser with 7 or 8 riding and i literally get 2 shotted if he bumps me !! i have 6 IF and 55 bump armour
hahaha yeah that´d be cool - hitting a orse once it dies and you kill the rider, then another bumps you and you die no matter your str, if or armor :mrgreen:
Horses should simply, flat out, have less HP. THAT is the problem. The counter to cavalry was always ranged; but when a light horse can survive a crossbow bolt, or 4 arrows, then it is not a counter. Furthermore, if you run into a lone spearman, you have good chances to not be dehorsed instantly unless it is a str monster.
Bumping damage is fine. It was introduced to fix a totally broken mechanic.
I don't know where all this horse hate is coming from...
The bump isn't that bad...even on an armored horse its weak.
Actually, with my 40 body armor a champ destrier does up to 40% (armored up to 50%) bump damage. Even the slighest touch will do 10%. Sometimes I just spend my rounds getting bumped down to 20%. True story.
To be honest shouldn't horse bumps be a part of fragging in a game, at least that not as effective it is now.
Well...I honestly cannot understand this. I never lose more than 5-10% from a horse bump. I'm not even sure we're talking about the same game here!
Maybe you confused cRPG to Native
1 of your arrows does over 40% to champ destrier, therefore your argument is invalid :mrgreen:
Aim for the legs (or maybe even the head), now that's some broken shit right there.
im a medium armoured infantry, i have a +3 nomad vest
The lancers spear does at least 40% as well, more with a couched lance. The 1hander can 1hit infantry when hit to the head. The bump damage is an extra one, that an archer doesnt have. Therefore your argument is invalid. And dont count the repair costs of the horse as reason. If the horse did 1/5 hp dmg at max, it would be fine as well, but 1/2 is not fine...
I think they fixed that. Today I had to slash plated charger's legs 3 times, before I could one hit them with held swing.
We are rather talking about light horses, destrier, arabian warhorse and courser. That a plated charger should do more than 1/5 hp to a medium/light armored guy is sure, even for us non-cavs. :)
Either nerf the horse bump damage or buff it. But if you decide to buff you must make it so riders take massive fall damage (30% HP or maybe even more).
But yea, i bet someone here can give me a reason why you shouldnt get damaged after you fall of a 1000kg horse.
And then after that you can tell us all why the pikeman/2her/archer who was 1m infront of the horse when he killed it shouldn't be crushed to death when 1000kg slumps on top of him at high speed.
If you have armor, bumps don't do much damage to you.
If you don't have armor, you can dodge horses errydayallday.
You can't have both though.
I'd be happy to test this, seeing as it wasn't in the patch notes I think? If it is fixed, then i'd be happy for a little bit of bump damage to be taken from each horse.
This still seems the most sensible thing said in this whole discussion...
Large, heavy horses, weight from 1,500 to 2,000 pounds (680 to 910 kg)... include armor to it and you will get 1000kg with ease... image the horse getting killed and you both fall on the ground... id say 50/50% chance that you got 1000 kg on you, on a battlefield that means death...
Ye a horsebump should hurt like hell (medium sized horse can still be around 500kg), but why would it be unfair to add falling damage when it gets killed?
Not sure why im posting this... its annoying if ppl start spamming fact like this... takes the fun out of the discussion...
But yea, i bet someone here can give me a reason why you shouldnt get damaged after you fall of a 1000kg horse.
There are two ways, realism or balance. I think that horse bump damage is too high when you look at the current balance where most melee classes have been nerfed, also ranged, after that change has been done (high bump damage). People who have over 50 armor shouldn't take more than 1 to 2 damage from light horses and up to 5 from armored horses. That's if you take balance into account.
If we're talking about realism then horses should do double bump damage and even ignore armor to some degree but also riders should take serious damage when dehorsed. That's from realism point of few.
I don't like the current situation. Want to see change, I don't care will they go for balance or realism.
I remember when I first played native, a couple years ago. It was my VERY first time, didn't even play single player except the tutorial. I logged in to a TDM server and picked a cav class right away. "Oh, this is going to be awesome!" I said to myself. I got a hunter horse (destrier equivalent I think), spotted an enemy with a 2h weapon, and charged head-long towards him.
Believe it or not, the adrenaline was pumping already. The sound of the pounding hooves and the feeling of speed racing towards the enemy was quite exciting. I couldn't wait! "I'm so going to run his ass over! I can't believe he's just standing there! LOL I'll make paste of this guy!!" I was at top speed and couldn't wait to trample this dumb player into the ground and score my 1st kill.
He swung his sword and killed both me and my horse in 1 hit.
I thought it was a fluke and tried several more times. Why can't my horse trample a player like...well...like a horse would trample a man? Finally I gave up. "Cav is kinda shitty, isn't it?" I asked. "yeah" they said.
Just a couple months later I started Crpg, and I have been ever since. Cav is a little better here. Still dies easily and has to be played smartly if you don't want to be de-horsed while you blink. You still can't approach infantry head on unless they have a 1h weapon.
I've played cav 4 gens. The ONLY 2 good uses for bumping is to mess up enemy players that are engaged in melee so your team-mates can kill them, or stagger players that are about to slash/stab the shit out of you and your horse. If you try to use it to actually damage or kill enemy players, you are doing it wrong. Good luck with that. As a consolation, it causes a bit of damage if you miss your target. It's a delay/frustrate tool, not a damage dealing tool.
Just thought I'd share. :)
cavalry in native is perfectly well balanced, i have no idea why they decided to change it in crpg.
and btw, I have played also 4 gens of cav on my alt "the responsible cow", and i tell you, whenever i see an archer in the field i make a point to run him over, and remember who i have run over so i can return and 2 shot bump them a second later. Honestly, if i see anyone below 30 armour ish i know i can kill them in 3 bumps. It's completely retarded.
I'm not joking when i say i get at least 50% of my kills through the bump, and they're all cheap.
It takes no no skill to fail my lance and bump some one over, and yet i still kill them. lol. I have failed, and yet i'm still rewarded. Crazy game.
Well of course if you only go for people in below 30 armorish you will get a lot of bump kills.
Who cares that they're cheap, why are you bitching about your own play style :? :? :? :?
I'm sorry, I must be missing the point here.
I've played 20 gens of cav, and if I play battle sometimes don't spawn rape/go for archers in low armor. The best thing to help team is to take out high profile players or other cavs.
Jeez.
i have no idea why they decided to change it in crpg.
I'm not joking when i say i get at least 50% of my kills through the bump, and they're all cheap.
How much armor is "armor"?
As I've already said I have 57 body armor and that isn't low armor, yet I loose between 10-20% HP (65 HP) per bump. That's quite a bit of damage if you ask me.
This is supposed to support your argument? What's the name of your cav char?
AND remember guys! Lance always hits FIRST! no matter what.
The bumping whining is absurd, it was introduced to counter cheap tricks more then anything. Again, if you are out in the open, no ranged, no 2h, no polearm, can't dodge, don't have a stabbing 1h, well, then dafuq, no, jumping into the horse should not be your "do not receive any damage free card", nor it should be "let's see if I can damage the horse by bumping it with my head".
I find it hard to believe that nobody has a problem with a horse charging into a spear or such and being able to turn around / walk away, but you do have a problem with bump damage?
Seriously?
Frontal couch ends up with horse impaled on the spear (sadly, this often does not kill the horse), as does frontal stab. Pikes also work, naturally. Long 2hs often work. The only problematic part is that horses can fairly often survive impaling themselves on a polearm and run away; in light of the fact that an infantryman won't survive a lance stab/couch, it's neither balanced nor realistic really.
The infamous "trot bump" to help teammates/get a bumpshot is hard to dodge but can't cause that much damage.
That's either a high speed bump or a bump from a very heavy horse. In any case, horses at higher speeds are easier to dodge if you don't mess up your timing. And heavy horses, well, they are made for that and have other problems.
just remove couch and nerf bump damage so that inf can hold downblock and trololol all lancers already
but when my horse runs into you at full speed you get knocked unconscious or die outright.
common sense isn't very common.Only in America
You can easily get kills by just using a great lance and pressing WWWWWWX; as long as you do not play like a total tard you will net a few kills that way. Grab a fast horse, prey on unaware people, simple really. As long as it is hard to shoot horses down before they get to do this, it will be the easiest class to play.
You can start discussing nerfing horse bumps when you give me the option to dismount when my horse is still moving with an actual button I can press. if I come to a stop and there's a weapon on the ground under my horse, I can't dismount, I pick up the weapon. Not to mention you have to wait almost a full second to dismount when your horse has already come to a complete stop.
I took screenshots yesterday with a light lance and it's funny how if I'm extended as far out to my right as I can do, and look down, my lance goes through my characters leg.
This game is very well balanced at this point, and I'd prefer if they disbanded the balance team (so the dev's can stop cleaning up your messes). The OP just sounds like a whiney bitch who needs to learn how to play.
Here's a revelation, run around in groups of people with different classes. You can compliment each other. I know it's a lot to ask, but even if you form up into very crude/ghetto formations, you can easily stop cavalry from preying on you.
The only reason cavalry is "OP" in your scenario is because you're terrible at being infantry and terrible at using teamwork. That's not my horses fault.
More suggestions if you want to nerf horse bump. Make it so my horses corpse (that 800-1200 pound hunk of muscle and bone) flying into you causes damage. I'm all for me taking damage when my horse dies and I'm flying into the ground, but when my horse runs into you at full speed you get knocked unconscious or die outright. Also give us more of a lance angle, being unable to stab farther out to the right than my foot seems a bit ridiculous.
Some of you have obviously never stood next to a horse before. And I say this as a 6'3" 230 pound person.
You're right, common sense isn't very common. If it was you'd realize you can easily counter cavalry by either carrying a long spear/pike (or really any polearm lance over 150 length, I rear horses all the time as a level 1 peasant with a pitch fork), or run around in larger groups that include polearms and ranged. Horses get destroyed against even a group of 2 people using 2h's if they are working as a team. Even if I bump or lance the first guy, the second guy gets a free hit on me and my horse.
Try using some common sense before bitching about something being overpowered. Or better yet, explain how you're helpless to counter horses, because they are overpowered. This should be good.
I'm all for adding damage when you're dismounted, but then they should also make it so you can dismount when moving (you would take damage if it's moving over a certain speed) and also this would make it possible to dismount when I'm staring at a weapon on the ground. And if you're going to give damage to the rider on the fall, add damage to people when my 1000+ pound horse's corpse, riding at full speed flies into you.
Horses are easily counter-able, and I still suggest people QQ'ing go and stand next to a horse and real life. That thing would murder you if it ran into you. And if you were wearing a set of full plate you'd still probably have a concussion or be knocked unconscious.
Horses are not overpowered, nothing in the game is.
+ old 90 degree lance angle (only for thrusts)
- lower bump damage
- arabian maneuver nerf
- overall horse looming nerf
- fixed couched lance
You only get a downvote here for:
4 nerfs vs 1 buff
nerfRPG lives on :mrgreen:
yeah, allowing horsees to hit sideways with the lance is a BIG buff though
tbh giving cavalry the sideways lance buff, reducing their stats a little and reducing bump damage would be balanced imo
Bonuses in every category for every horse is over the top compared to weapon loom bonuses and especially compared to shitty light armor and even shittier shield loom bonuses. Someone forgot to do his homework and left certain loom bonuses untouched when he nerfed some other (shields, armor and weapon bonuses).
That's gain in five different categories, no other items gain that much.
Champion Arabian has 40% body armor than regular, for example.
QQ moar.
Mod is slowly evolving towards realism and ultimate balance.
It's realistic that it fucking hurts.
Also, we don't do changes because we want the game to be more realistic. We do changes because we feel they are right. If they fit with realism, that's great, and it's also our guideline, but almost never the reason for a change. We are not trying do create a simulator, we are trying to create a game.
upgrading horses increases about a billion stats.
Way to show your age.
Edit: Just thought of something nice:
Wouldn't it be lovely if the suggestions corner on this forum was only viewable once you passed an age verification check (just like ppv sites etc - would prefer over 21 but over 18 might work).
I bet there'd be 100% less nerf cav threads.
100% more nerf ranged threads (because archers couldn't post anymore)
50% as much infantry whine
= Profit?
Way to show your age.