Author Topic: Nerf Horsebump  (Read 5789 times)

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Offline CrazyCracka420

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Re: Nerf Horsebump
« Reply #75 on: June 28, 2012, 08:33:14 pm »
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Offline Corsair831

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Re: Nerf Horsebump
« Reply #76 on: June 28, 2012, 10:18:00 pm »
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You can start discussing nerfing horse bumps when you give me the option to dismount when my horse is still moving with an actual button I can press.  if I come to a stop and there's a weapon on the ground under my horse, I can't dismount, I pick up the weapon.  Not to mention you have to wait almost a full second to dismount when your horse has already come to a complete stop. 

I took screenshots yesterday with a light lance and it's funny how if I'm extended as far out to my right as I can do, and look down, my lance goes through my characters leg.

This game is very well balanced at this point, and I'd prefer if they disbanded the balance team (so the dev's can stop cleaning up your messes).  The OP just sounds like a whiney bitch who needs to learn how to play.

Here's a revelation, run around in groups of people with different classes.  You can compliment each other.  I know it's a lot to ask,  but even if you form up into very crude/ghetto formations, you can easily stop cavalry from preying on you. 

The only reason cavalry is "OP" in your scenario is because you're terrible at being infantry and terrible at using teamwork.  That's not my horses fault.

More suggestions if you want to nerf horse bump.  Make it so my horses corpse (that 800-1200 pound hunk of muscle and bone) flying into you causes damage.  I'm all for me taking damage when my horse dies and I'm flying into the ground, but when my horse runs into you at full speed you get knocked unconscious or die outright.  Also give us more of a lance angle, being unable to stab farther out to the right than my foot seems a bit ridiculous.

Some of you have obviously never stood next to a horse before.  And I say this as a 6'3" 230 pound person.

yeah let's have suicide horse bombs, that's a great idea mate, i'll spawn naked with a shield and a great lance on a plated charger every round, suicide charge the enemy spawn and watch it roll over the entire team getting me 15 kills.

honestly the stupid suggestion i've ever heard on anything, ever.

Quote
You're right, common sense isn't very common.  If it was you'd realize you can easily counter cavalry by either carrying a long spear/pike (or really any polearm lance over 150 length, I rear horses all the time as a level 1 peasant with a pitch fork), or run around in larger groups that include polearms and ranged.  Horses get destroyed against even a group of 2 people using 2h's if they are working as a team.  Even if I bump or lance the first guy, the second guy gets a free hit on me and my horse.

Try using some common sense before bitching about something being overpowered.   Or better yet, explain how you're helpless to counter horses, because they are overpowered.  This should be good.

I'm all for adding damage when you're dismounted, but then they should also make it so you can dismount when moving (you would take damage if it's moving over a certain speed) and also this would make it possible to dismount when I'm staring at a weapon on the ground.  And if you're going to give damage to the rider on the fall, add damage to people when my 1000+ pound horse's corpse, riding at full speed flies into you.

Horses are easily counter-able, and I still suggest people QQ'ing go and stand next to a horse and real life.  That thing would murder you if it ran into you.  And if you were wearing a set of full plate you'd still probably have a concussion or be knocked unconscious.

Horses are not overpowered, nothing in the game is. 

I think you're rather missing the point of 'balance'. It's not that one thing is overpowered therefore it has no counters. It's that one thing is "OVER"powered therefore it's too strong / easy compared to what it should be.

My entire point wasn't that cavalry in general is impossible to kill, it was that the horse's BUMP is too powerful, it's damage should be lowered by ~~50% or somewhat, it's silly that a lancer can miss his lance like the noob he usually is, and then be rewarded with a free kill even though he has failed the slightly skillfull part.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 10:24:21 pm by Corsair831 »
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Offline Leshma

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Re: Nerf Horsebump
« Reply #77 on: June 28, 2012, 11:36:10 pm »
+2
What I would actually like to see is cav buff which will make playing cavalry once again a fun experience and that's bringing back old lance angle. But that has to be followed with some nerfs.

Lower bump damage is just one of them.

Second would be nerf for Arabian (2 less maneuver so it actually mirrors Courser which has 46 speed and 41 maneuver).

Third would be nerf to horse looms (horse looms are simply overpowered compared to other loom bonuses, either make it so they gain current bonuses in 3 categories depending on roles certain horses fill or keep current system but with 50% of current bonuses in every category). To prove my claim, I'll just say that riding Rouncey with my 3 riding skill is completely different experience than riding Champion Rouncey with same riding skill (that feels almost decent).

Fourth and final nerf is either drastic (no couch option for thrustable lances) or something that makes a lot more sense but it's harder to implement. And that's couched lance being fixed in place. Currently, you can wiggle it over horse head (which isn't possible irl), also it has the same angle like lance thrust which allows much easier couching than it should be. That way horse maneuver will be the only thing that can help you if you want to change direction of couched lance.

+ old 90 degree lance angle (only for thrusts)
- lower bump damage
- arabian maneuver nerf
- overall horse looming nerf
- fixed couched lance

Buff to lance angle for me makes perfect sense because that's the exact thing I'm exploiting to be able to hit cav with my greatsword 90% of the time. My trick is cool and brings me fun every time but it's actually bullshit just like helicopters, hiltslash and polestagger. Wider lance angle will fix that.

Also wider lance angle will be the end of backstabbing for most skilled cav. I would consider playing lancer cav if they allow wider lance angle.

It will also give a chance to lancers against good 1hcavs who currently serve as counter for lancer cav (I'm against rock-paper-scissors way of balancing).

But none of these changes will ever happen because Paul knows better, he who can't stand playing battle longer than 3 rounds...

Most cav will downvote this post, if they read it at all (tl;dr). That's because they like scoring (backstabbing unaware infantry) more than having fun while playing.

Offline polkafranzi

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Re: Nerf Horsebump
« Reply #78 on: June 28, 2012, 11:51:19 pm »
0
You only get a downvote here for:


+ old 90 degree lance angle (only for thrusts)
- lower bump damage
- arabian maneuver nerf
- overall horse looming nerf
- fixed couched lance


4 nerfs vs 1 buff

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Offline justme

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Re: Nerf Horsebump
« Reply #79 on: June 29, 2012, 12:10:57 am »
-1
NO free bumps...

Offline Corsair831

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Re: Nerf Horsebump
« Reply #80 on: June 29, 2012, 12:16:17 am »
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yeah, allowing horsees to hit sideways with the lance is a BIG buff though

tbh giving cavalry the sideways lance buff, reducing their stats a little and reducing bump damage would be balanced imo
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Offline Leshma

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Re: Nerf Horsebump
« Reply #81 on: June 29, 2012, 12:19:05 am »
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You only get a downvote here for:

4 nerfs vs 1 buff

nerfRPG lives on  :mrgreen:

One pretty awesome buff which brings back creativity and freedom and 4 not so epic nerfs.

Actually two of those are epic nerfs for less skilled cavalry, since horse bumps and couched lance abuse (what most cav do with lance in couched position is the same as slapping the flaccid penis) make for 80% of kills low skilled lancer cavalry score. Skilled lancers like Tommy will be buffed a lot but 80% will face a serious nerf.

Two have something to do with stat balance since arabian warhorse popularity isn't because it looks amazing but because it has unbalanced stats compared to Courser. And horse loom bonuses are the strongest in this mod, even slighty better than archery looms which make epic difference as well.

Bonuses in every category for every horse is over the top compared to weapon loom bonuses and especially compared to shitty light armor and even shittier shield loom bonuses. Someone forgot to do his homework and left certain loom bonuses untouched when he nerfed some other (shields, armor and weapon bonuses).

Offline polkafranzi

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Re: Nerf Horsebump
« Reply #82 on: June 29, 2012, 12:19:50 am »
0
yeah, allowing horsees to hit sideways with the lance is a BIG buff though

tbh giving cavalry the sideways lance buff, reducing their stats a little and reducing bump damage would be balanced imo

Pretty sure nobody here called for sideswings unless I read their post wrong or misunderstand your english.  Be more clear, when you say hitting sideways you refer to the rider being able to turn his body realistically and not have this imaginary straight jacket the devs put on him on that big cav nerf day.

I think the old lance angle of nearly 90degree is what would be cool if it came back, i'd welcome some small nerfs if it did.
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Offline polkafranzi

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Re: Nerf Horsebump
« Reply #83 on: June 29, 2012, 12:24:36 am »
0
Bonuses in every category for every horse is over the top compared to weapon loom bonuses and especially compared to shitty light armor and even shittier shield loom bonuses. Someone forgot to do his homework and left certain loom bonuses untouched when he nerfed some other (shields, armor and weapon bonuses).

I wasn't playing for a while sometime ago and when I came back all my lordly stuff was down from +7 to +5 and shield looms were nerfed too...I also never understood that or must have missed all the QQ that armor/shield looms were OP (never thought they were tbh).  But still I don't see these stats on the +3 as gamebreaking???

example - Destrier @ Champion
Speed   +2
Body armor   +4
Hit points   +15
Maneuver   +2
Charge   +4

edit: maybe it's just that there are a lot of different stats that the horse has, whereas a pike for example, has just the 2, the horse has 5 things to be improved.
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Offline Leshma

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Re: Nerf Horsebump
« Reply #84 on: June 29, 2012, 12:36:51 am »
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That's gain in five different categories, no other items gain that much. Also, difference between champion horses and regular horses is vast. Giving +3 more cut and +2 pierce thrust damage to Great Sword will make it a bit better than Danish Greatsword but that difference isn't that noticeable in combat.

Giving those 5 bonuses to Rouncey make it almost a Destrier for 2/5 of it's price. I didn't say it's gamebreaking but it isn't balanced compared to other bonuses item receive when loomed.

Champion Arabian has 40% body armor than regular, for example.

Champion Large Warhorse is the best horse ingame, because it's not so slow when loomed and has fuck-ton of HP, epic armor rating, good bump damage and it's very maneuverable. Better than any other heavy horse for half of their price.

Offline polkafranzi

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Re: Nerf Horsebump
« Reply #85 on: June 29, 2012, 12:46:56 am »
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That's gain in five different categories, no other items gain that much.

But that's because it HAS five different stats to improve...not the horses fault  :( 

I mean yeh you could nerf each one a tiny bit but even so, when I use my other cav alt with unloomed rouncey and unloomed (normal) lance I can still kill fuck-loads of idiots who are just running/standing still shooting/not using the tare key/have no awareness - that's where the problem is most of the time. 
(click to show/hide)

Champion Arabian has 40% body armor than regular, for example.

But base of just 10 body armor is kinda gay  :lol:

Anyway, I agree - i'd love to see better loom stats on weapons too. 

I say, no more nerfs AT ALL.  Let's start going in the opposite direction, and increase stats on weapon/armor looms seeing as these days it's not exaclty hard to get hold of heirlooms anymore. 
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Offline bruce

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Re: Nerf Horsebump
« Reply #86 on: June 29, 2012, 07:26:19 am »
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It's a reasonable suggestion.

I would rather reduce HP & armour of unarmoured horses (esp. heirloomed horses are just way too tanky, +15 on top of already high HP) then lower bump damage.

Btw, all the agile horse line should somewhat mirror the quick horses; take a look at the (Champion) Steppe's 39-49 compared to 43-43 of (Champion) Rouncey, etc. They get more in maneuver than they lose in speed (and their lower HP is offset by their smaller size, before someone brings that up). Palfrey needs to be much cheaper given it is only a marginally faster horse then Rouncey but with less hp.
 
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Re: Nerf Horsebump
« Reply #87 on: June 29, 2012, 09:42:16 am »
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QQ moar.

Mod is slowly evolving towards realism and ultimate balance.

It's realistic that it fucking hurts.

Also, we don't do changes because we want the game to be more realistic. We do changes because we feel they are right. If they fit with realism, that's great, and it's also our guideline, but almost never the reason for a change. We are not trying do create a simulator, we are trying to create a game. 

lol
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Offline Corsair831

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Re: Nerf Horsebump
« Reply #88 on: June 29, 2012, 02:18:49 pm »
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yeah, horses are obviously the best thing to heirloom because they improve in so many ways, compared to just a straight armour increase for armour or a slight damage increase for weapons, upgrading horses increases about a billion stats. Combining increasing their speed and bump damage, combining itself with the crazy high riding skill some people have, means a champion horse can and will 2 shot bump (which is a skill fail) most archers.
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Offline polkafranzi

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Re: Nerf Horsebump
« Reply #89 on: June 29, 2012, 02:29:03 pm »
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upgrading horses increases about a billion stats.

Way to show your age.

Edit: Just thought of something nice:

Wouldn't it be lovely if the suggestions corner on this forum was only viewable once you passed an age verification check (just like ppv sites etc - would prefer over 21 but over 18 might work).

I bet there'd be 100% less nerf cav threads.

100% more nerf ranged threads (because archers couldn't post anymore)

50% as much infantry whine

= Profit?
« Last Edit: June 29, 2012, 02:34:24 pm by polkafranzi »
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