cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Joker86 on June 26, 2012, 04:21:28 am
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The title already says it more or less.
Increase the distance on which archers and crossbowmen get bumped by enemy players. I think it is ridiculous that you can run with your shield up towards an archer who stands still, and after your shield passed the bow mesh, but before the bump is initiated, they can release their shot and headshot you.
I see no justification to keep this bug ingame. If someone with a (board)shield is walking towards and archer, his bow has to be useless by definition. That's how the class balance works. The archer either needs to run or to switch to his melee weapon, because his counter is approaching. But archers being able to attack me on distance AND to attack me in melee with their bow seems kind of retarded to me.
If you support this, please + this post or participate in the vote. Or just write your support (or your refusal) in a post.
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The title already says it more or less.
Increase the distance on which archers and crossbowmen get bumped by enemy players. I think it is ridiculous that you can run with your shield up towards an archer who stands still, and after your shield passed the bow mesh, but before the bump is initiated, they can release their shot and headshot you.
I believe that Xynox said that you had to use the LMB in order to cause bump, but there were cases where that only caused me to die [Like when I was swinging my cudgel which was about to nail an archer's head and I died, or when I was swinging a 2her well within my reach and I was shot :|]
What are the actual conditions to cause the bump anyway?
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The archer either needs to run or to switch to his melee weapon, because his counter is approaching.
Normal shielder is as much of a counter vs. archer ATM as a lone unarmed guy on a roof a counter vs. cavalry.
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Yes. It's retarded how you have to be inside a bow for 2 seconds before the bow is bumped.
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As an archer, i totally agree with the OP.
This is retarded.
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- Increase the radius to an actual radius of effect. Currently you have to be colliding with the archer's model and on top of that running/walking towards him for the bump to start.
- Change the animation to an actual bump. I've seen many agi archers escaping the fight after being bumped like that, which lets them continue their kiting. If the bump was like a polestagger, disabling the enemy's movement for a small instant, it would actually force the archer into taking his sidearm before that happens. Because if not he gets killed, which is a good thing.
But of course all this must be done at the same time as peasant 100% archers are nerfed to the ground and medium armored archer hybrids buffed to existence.
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I believe that Xynox said that you had to use the LMB in order to cause bump, but there were cases where that only caused me to die [Like when I was swinging my cudgel which was about to nail an archer's head and I died, or when I was swinging a 2her well within my reach and I was shot :|]
What are the actual conditions to cause the bump anyway?
So actually only when I open my cover and risk to get shot I can interrupt the archer?
I don't know if this is a condition for bumping, or how they look like, but it definitely should not be this way. If it is, it needs to be changed ASAP.
Normal shielder is as much of a counter vs. archer ATM as a lone unarmed guy on a roof a counter vs. cavalry.
I know what you want to say, and actually you are right. Archers (and HAs) don't have real counters, they only have classes that match them on the same level. Every cavalryman risks his horse when trying to attack an archer, and another archer meets him on equal chances anyway.
I think this should be changed. Increasing the bump range would be the first step in the right direction. And the best thing is: archers can't even complain it's a nerf, because melee shooting (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoDKXozA0M4&#t=183) should stay in SciFi movies. Archers are not supposed to use bows as melee weapons.
But of course all this must be done at the same time as peasant 100% archers are nerfed to the ground and medium armored archer hybrids buffed to existence.
Why? It's not a nerf, see above.
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Why? It's not a nerf, see above.
I think this change if considered alone is a nerf to what archery is in current cRPG.
Peasant archers can use their high agi and low armor levels to regularly abuse such quirks of the game engine and that has real implications on how the game is balanced.
However, if hybrids were the norm, it wouldn't be a big nerf.
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I think this change if considered alone is a nerf to what archery is in current cRPG.
Peasant archers can use their high agi and low armor levels to regularly abuse such quirks of the game engine and that has real implications on how the game is balanced.
However, if hybrids were the norm, it wouldn't be a big nerf.
I don't think that any form of abusing should be tolerated or accepted as "necessary", especially not such a thing where I would say you can shoot the players from 5-50m as well.
Sorry, I don't have any mercy for that. It's not a playstyle. It's just gay.
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i always get free hits on archers, when they attempt this, really, it is merely a mindgame that works on inexperienced shielders.
Unrelated: Kafein, definitely*
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i always get free hits on archers, when they attempt this, really, it is merely a mindgame that works on inexperienced shielders.
Depends on the archer's and shielder's relative experience. Guys like robinhood are excellent at this.
Unrelated: Kafein, definitely*
Thank you, I never get that one right.
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I voted no but as the poll doesn't matter anyway, you will likely not care about that. ;)
I rarely had any kill by that, maybe 4 or 5 in total and that in hundreds of hours playing archer. Usually going directly melee when charged so who cares.
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I voted no but as the poll doesn't matter anyway, you will likely not care about that. ;)
I rarely had any kill by that, maybe 4 or 5 in total and that in hundreds of hours playing archer. Usually going directly melee when charged so who cares.
miwiw you just suck as archer) look bagge he make it all the time)
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Thats because I do not really care about kills, Agor, like you :P
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I voted no but as the poll doesn't matter anyway, you will likely not care about that. ;)
I rarely had any kill by that, maybe 4 or 5 in total and that in hundreds of hours playing archer. Usually going directly melee when charged so who cares.
It's not because you can't do it that it should stay. :S
And the fact alone that you managed to do it, even 4 times, is 4 times of a glitch. And 4 times a raging shielder.
This should be gone. Real good archers don't need it anyway.
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Aren't you even slightly embarrassed at this topic? Oh noes, an archer is inside the range of my melee weapon. How will I ever defend myself? I deserve an auto-win just for managing to get that close! :rolleyes:
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Aren't you even slightly embarrassed at this topic? Oh noes, an archer is inside the range of my melee weapon. How will I ever defend myself? I deserve an auto-win just for managing to get that close! :rolleyes:
Err.... yes. I do.
You know, there are different classes and counters and shit... they should work as intended...
Are you complaining that there are good chances to prevent the possible abuse? I am complaining you need to prevent the abuse.
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You don't deserve an autowin; archers can and do have melee weapons. Or they can run. However, pushing your bow inside shield model is just completely absurd.
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You don't deserve an autowin;
Bumping an archer is no autowin. Especially since the archer must allow you to bump him.
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Well, experienced archers know very well when to retreat in order to not get bumped/interrupted. If this bumpradius ( Yes, you do have to hold lmb in order to get the bump, otherwise the shot will just be canceled, which however is pretty much a freekill also ) will get enlarged, archers will simply start to run away even sooner and wont let you come that close, if running away is their intention at all.
I cant really say I care about this because I dont usually get kills from that close range but in the end its one of those suggestions that made archers the kiting class we see now in the first place. Its just another change that works in favour of melees, allowing the average melee player to get freekills without even knowing what he is doing and its furthermore again forcing archers to keep their distance and to run away, which they can if they want to.
The problem, as mentioned a lot of times before is the ability to kite itself. As long as archers can kite and you give them more reasons to do so, they will. Give them more melee capabilities but increase the speed penalty when drawing a bow Id say. ( Yes, contrary to popular believe its already implemented )
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Well, experienced archers know very well when to retreat in order to not get bumped/interrupted. If this bumpradius ( Yes, you do have to hold lmb in order to get the bump, otherwise the shot will just be canceled, which however is pretty much a freekill also ) will get enlarged, archers will simply start to run away even sooner and wont let you come that close, if running away is their intention at all.
I cant really say I care about this because I dont usually get kills from that close range but in the end its one of those suggestions that made archers the kiting class we see now in the first place. Its just another change that works in favour of melees, allowing the average melee player to get freekills without even knowing what he is doing and its furthermore again forcing archers to keep their distance and to run away, which they can if they want to.
The problem, as mentioned a lot of times before is the ability to kite itself. As long as archers can kite and you give them more reasons to do so, they will. Give them more melee capabilities but increase the speed penalty when drawing a bow Id say. ( Yes, contrary to popular believe its already implemented )
As if we're not kiting already. :lol:
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Well, experienced archers know very well when to retreat in order to not get bumped/interrupted. If this bumpradius ( Yes, you do have to hold lmb in order to get the bump, otherwise the shot will just be canceled, which however is pretty much a freekill also ) will get enlarged, archers will simply start to run away even sooner and wont let you come that close, if running away is their intention at all.
I cant really say I care about this because I dont usually get kills from that close range but in the end its one of those suggestions that made archers the kiting class we see now in the first place. Its just another change that works in favour of melees, allowing the average melee player to get freekills without even knowing what he is doing and its furthermore again forcing archers to keep their distance and to run away, which they can if they want to.
The problem, as mentioned a lot of times before is the ability to kite itself. As long as archers can kite and you give them more reasons to do so, they will. Give them more melee capabilities but increase the speed penalty when drawing a bow Id say. ( Yes, contrary to popular believe its already implemented )
I agree with this.
Fixing the bumo would be nice as it is (preventing absurd bow shotgunning through shields), but rebalancing archery would be immensely better.
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Err.... yes. I do.
You know, there are different classes and counters and shit... they should work as intended...
Are you complaining that there are good chances to prevent the possible abuse? I am complaining you need to prevent the abuse.
I am complaining that you want archers auto-stunned before you are even in range of their 0 slot 70 length weapon. :rolleyes:
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I am complaining that you want archers auto-stunned before you are even in range of their 0 slot 70 length weapon. :rolleyes:
Sorry Rumblood, but that's bullshit.
Because if the archer has got his mace drawn, he can't get bumped any more. But if he tries to teleport his bow and arrow through my shield, then yes, I expect him to suffer from negative effects. Lame action -> lame effect.
It's not like archers can't shoot me already before, and it's not like an archer can't use his legs to backpedal to gain some time to switch to his weapon, and it's not like it is not totally retarded that otherwise THE ARCHER would have a free hit on ME, because at some point I need to open my cover to harm him. And without the bump feature I can't do so.
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... because at some point I need to open my cover to harm him. And without the bump feature I can't do so.
You dont. If you touch him with your shield up his shot will be canceled and he has to draw another shot. Many people dont seem to notice this, the animation is quite unremarkable. When you touch an archers front with your shield who has not drawn his melee weapon you already got a free hit on him. The bump is completely unnecessary.
Holding W + keeping archer center screen + attacking immediatly after archer has been touched = free kill
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You dont. If you touch him with your shield up his shot will be canceled and he has to draw another shot. Many people dont seem to notice this, the animation is quite unremarkable. When you touch an archers front with your shield who has not drawn his melee weapon you already got a free hit on him. The bump is completely unnecessary.
Holding W + keeping archer center screen + attacking immediatly after archer has been touched = free kill
I would be perfectly fine with the shot being cancelled. But I got shot through my shield on 0,3m distance, which means the shot went through my shield. Which means it doesn't work the way you described it.
And by the way, I think a bump would be nicer, anyway. It represents some kind of shieldbash against someone who has nothing in his hands to prevent it. If an archer allows a shielder to approach him that closely, he should get punished properly.
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You dont. If you touch him with your shield up his shot will be canceled and he has to draw another shot. Many people dont seem to notice this, the animation is quite unremarkable. When you touch an archers front with your shield who has not drawn his melee weapon you already got a free hit on him. The bump is completely unnecessary.
Holding W + keeping archer center screen + attacking immediatly after archer has been touched = free kill
Except.... this now takes much longer to happen. You've always had to be really close to an archer to do this before, but now it seems you have to be inside them. I agree that there shouldn't be a "you get stunned since I came inside of a 5m radius of you", but we shouldn't have to be INSIDE the archer either. I dunno what happened, but that bump seems to be delayed now or the distance needed has been lowered.
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- you have to be holding an attack or a block
- you have to be colliding with the enemy model
- you have to be walking/running towards him
Only if these three conditions are met the archer will have his shot cancelled. Standing next to him isn't enough, you have to be running inside him.
I think two things are fucked up, but only are a minor annoyance due to their rareness :
- By sidestepping just before the bump happens an archer can manage to shoot a shielder at facehug range even if all the shielder's attention is directed at the archer. High agi and low armor allows you to do that. I'm not saying it's easy though.
- Again with enough agi and low weight you can be forced to cancel your shot but still be able to get outside the shielder's reach unharmed after that.
Rumblood if you honestly think an archer is supposed to be shooting arrows when the model of his bow is into the model of his target, you can go fuck yourself. If a player ends up in melee range of an enemy, he takes a melee weapon.
Now I can understand why archers do this, simply because their melee options aren't bright at all, and that's also why I will lobby again for a more heavily armored and melee-able archery.
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Rumblood if you honestly think an archer is supposed to be shooting arrows when the model of his bow is into the model of his target, you can go fuck yourself.
Screens or it didn't happen. You guys are making shit up just to have this implemented. You just think it went through due to lag/dropped your shield/inattentiveness/you were drunk.
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I had pretty good signs it went through. I died, for example. And I had my shield kept up all the time, because I planned to bump. And the kill message appeared. I got a death more on the scoreboard, and the archer got a kill more. I don't were any glasses, I was sober and I felt healthy. I was not tired and there was neither fog nor rain in my room. No mirage was raising from my floor so that the mirroring ceiling could have caused a Fata Morgana. There were no weathballoons or meteros.
Yes, I am pretty sure I saw what I saw.
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cRPG is very buggy atm. Teleporting, ghosting hits, tunneling through time and space, server-client desync, massive lag spikes etc. When those are fixes I am willing to spend some time on the duel server with you joker, to test one thing or another regarding your problems, how does that sound to you ?
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cRPG is very buggy atm. Teleporting, ghosting hits, tunneling through time and space, server-client desync, massive lag spikes etc. When those are fixes I am willing to spend some time on the duel server with you joker, to test one thing or another regarding your problems, how does that sound to you ?
Good, of course. But the fact that on short range shields are not impenetrable any more is widely known, as far as I have read. :?
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Good, of course. But the fact that on short range shields are not impenetrable any more is widely known, as far as I have read. :?
I have read contradictory statements regarding this. It is hard to tell what is exaggeration and what is not.
The only thing I know for sure is that I cant remember a single time clearly shooting through a shield with a bow. It maybe the same "bug" which is causing "blocks not to register" as where I came to the conclusion this is caused by the server-client desync, so the enemy is aleady behind you, swinging around your block instead of standing right next to like it is displayed on your screen. Once people notice its easy to abuse.
All in all the only things I can provide about the cause of shield penetration are speculations so I am interested in testing this as well.
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I like it when I'm close enough to an archer to sexually molest him but he can still shoot me in the face because apparently that's still not close enough.
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I have read contradictory statements regarding this. It is hard to tell what is exaggeration and what is not.
The only thing I know for sure is that I cant remember a single time clearly shooting through a shield with a bow. It maybe the same "bug" which is causing "blocks not to register" as where I came to the conclusion this is caused by the server-client desync, so the enemy is aleady behind you, swinging around your block instead of standing right next to like it is displayed on your screen. Once people notice its easy to abuse.
All in all the only things I can provide about the cause of shield penetration are speculations so I am interested in testing this as well.
Exactly. And you can also watch your arrows pass straight through a players chest without doing anything.
You don't see archers asking for a proximity stun for arrows being within 10 feet of someone like shielders think they should get.
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This topic really needs a bump and a necro. As the last man standing, running into a naked crossbowman with a shield up results in him killing me through my shield.
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Its working fine at the moment. If a shielder touches me I stagger, if they lower their shield too soon they get shot.
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All I can say is that it just happened to me today...held block whole time and the crossbowman just waited till I got close and shot through it.
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All I can say is that it just happened to me today...held block whole time and the crossbowman just waited till I got close and shot through it.
Depending on the crossbow and what kind of shield you have the bolts can penetrate right through. Working as intended.
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6 shield points with a undamaged elite cav shield. Still happened.
P.S. I never heard the bolt hit the shield. The end of the crossbow was past my shield.
Depending on the crossbow and what kind of shield you have the bolts can penetrate right through. Working as intended.
I understand this and support it...my problem is that the crossbow bypassed penetrating my shield altogether by moving the crossbow past the shield mesh.
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Might be a lag issue or you simply turning your shield at the last second. Either way, bump has been working and it's really silly for you to necro this thread because of one instance.
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it's really silly for you to necro this thread because of one instance.
Necromancy is never silly, you should know this Jesus.
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cRPG is very buggy atm. Teleporting, ghosting hits, tunneling through time and space, server-client desync, massive lag spikes etc. When those are fixes I am willing to spend some time on the duel server with you joker, to test one thing or another regarding your problems, how does that sound to you ?
Good, of course. But the fact that on short range shields are not impenetrable any more is widely known, as far as I have read. :?
Just reread this and noticed we havent done any testing yet. I dont know whether people still consider this a problem because I havent seen any complaints about it lately but if you are still interested Joker, I am still available to keep my word :D
Ill be home late today though.
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Leave archery alone!! havent u done enough!!!
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Leave archery alone!! havent u done enough!!!
Some hacked Tzars account I see.
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Srly i think archery is fine the way it is now.
They cant implement more nerfs, since they all ready have fixed what was the biggest an imho the only issue, which where kiting. Its the only thing that made archery OP.
If people die to archers up close im sure its because they have lag or something... or maybe just shit reflexes :lol:
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Good, of course. But the fact that on short range shields are not impenetrable any more is widely known, as far as I have read. :?
Just reread this and noticed we havent done any testing yet. I dont know whether people still consider this a problem because I havent seen any complaints about it lately but if you are still interested Joker, I am still available to keep my word :D
Ill be home late today though.
Me too. I am still at my university, I guess I will be home at like 21:30 or something like that. But some other day for sure. When I see you on the server I can ask you, I guess it won't take long. I will just approach you in millimeter steps, and you try to shoot through my shield. If you manage to shoot past it before I bump you, we will test how long the distance is where you can do that, which shouldn't take long either (I will equip plate so I won't die that fast), and then let's see. I still say some archers, if they train it and have a good ping, can abuse that bug.
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This topic really needs a bump and a necro. As the last man standing, running into a naked crossbowman with a shield up results in him killing me through my shield.
For fucks sake, Archers don't carry crossbows!