Increase bump range for archers with WSE

[Rumblood]

Aren't you even slightly embarrassed at this topic? Oh noes, an archer is inside the range of my melee weapon. How will I ever defend myself? I deserve an auto-win just for managing to get that close! 

[Joker86]

Aren't you even slightly embarrassed at this topic? Oh noes, an archer is inside the range of my melee weapon. How will I ever defend myself? I deserve an auto-win just for managing to get that close! 

Err.... yes. I do.

You know, there are different classes and counters and shit... they should work as intended...

Are you complaining that there are good chances to prevent the possible abuse? I am complaining you need to prevent the abuse.

[bruce]

You don't deserve an autowin; archers can and do have melee weapons. Or they can run. However, pushing your bow inside shield model is just completely absurd.

[Joker86]

You don't deserve an autowin;

Bumping an archer is no autowin. Especially since the archer must allow you to bump him.

[XyNox]

Well, experienced archers know very well when to retreat in order to not get bumped/interrupted. If this bumpradius ( Yes, you do have to hold lmb in order to get the bump, otherwise the shot will just be canceled, which however is pretty much a freekill also ) will get enlarged, archers will simply start to run away even sooner and wont let you come that close, if running away is their intention at all.

I cant really say I care about this because I dont usually get kills from that close range but in the end its one of those suggestions that made archers the kiting class we see now in the first place. Its just another change that works in favour of melees, allowing the average melee player to get freekills without even knowing what he is doing and its furthermore again forcing archers to keep their distance and to run away, which they can if they want to.

The problem, as mentioned a lot of times before is the ability to kite itself. As long as archers can kite and you give them more reasons to do so, they will. Give them more melee capabilities but increase the speed penalty when drawing a bow Id say. ( Yes, contrary to popular believe its already implemented )

[Bulzur]

Well, experienced archers know very well when to retreat in order to not get bumped/interrupted. If this bumpradius ( Yes, you do have to hold lmb in order to get the bump, otherwise the shot will just be canceled, which however is pretty much a freekill also ) will get enlarged, archers will simply start to run away even sooner and wont let you come that close, if running away is their intention at all.

I cant really say I care about this because I dont usually get kills from that close range but in the end its one of those suggestions that made archers the kiting class we see now in the first place. Its just another change that works in favour of melees, allowing the average melee player to get freekills without even knowing what he is doing and its furthermore again forcing archers to keep their distance and to run away, which they can if they want to.

The problem, as mentioned a lot of times before is the ability to kite itself. As long as archers can kite and you give them more reasons to do so, they will. Give them more melee capabilities but increase the speed penalty when drawing a bow Id say. ( Yes, contrary to popular believe its already implemented )

As if we're not kiting already. 

[Kafein]

Well, experienced archers know very well when to retreat in order to not get bumped/interrupted. If this bumpradius ( Yes, you do have to hold lmb in order to get the bump, otherwise the shot will just be canceled, which however is pretty much a freekill also ) will get enlarged, archers will simply start to run away even sooner and wont let you come that close, if running away is their intention at all.

I cant really say I care about this because I dont usually get kills from that close range but in the end its one of those suggestions that made archers the kiting class we see now in the first place. Its just another change that works in favour of melees, allowing the average melee player to get freekills without even knowing what he is doing and its furthermore again forcing archers to keep their distance and to run away, which they can if they want to.

The problem, as mentioned a lot of times before is the ability to kite itself. As long as archers can kite and you give them more reasons to do so, they will. Give them more melee capabilities but increase the speed penalty when drawing a bow Id say. ( Yes, contrary to popular believe its already implemented )

I agree with this.

Fixing the bumo would be nice as it is (preventing absurd bow shotgunning through shields), but rebalancing archery would be immensely better.

[Rumblood]

Err.... yes. I do.

You know, there are different classes and counters and shit... they should work as intended...

Are you complaining that there are good chances to prevent the possible abuse? I am complaining you need to prevent the abuse.

I am complaining that you want archers auto-stunned before you are even in range of their 0 slot 70 length weapon. 

[Joker86]

I am complaining that you want archers auto-stunned before you are even in range of their 0 slot 70 length weapon. 

Sorry Rumblood, but that's bullshit.

Because if the archer has got his mace drawn, he can't get bumped any more. But if he tries to teleport his bow and arrow through my shield, then yes, I expect him to suffer from negative effects. Lame action -> lame effect.

It's not like archers can't shoot me already before, and it's not like an archer can't use his legs to backpedal to gain some time to switch to his weapon, and it's not like it is not totally retarded that otherwise THE ARCHER would have a free hit on ME, because at some point I need to open my cover to harm him. And without the bump feature I can't do so.

[XyNox]

... because at some point I need to open my cover to harm him. And without the bump feature I can't do so.

You dont. If you touch him with your shield up his shot will be canceled and he has to draw another shot. Many people dont seem to notice this, the animation is quite unremarkable. When you touch an archers front with your shield who has not drawn his melee weapon you already got a free hit on him. The bump is completely unnecessary.

Holding W + keeping archer center screen + attacking immediatly after archer has been touched = free kill

[Joker86]

You dont. If you touch him with your shield up his shot will be canceled and he has to draw another shot. Many people dont seem to notice this, the animation is quite unremarkable. When you touch an archers front with your shield who has not drawn his melee weapon you already got a free hit on him. The bump is completely unnecessary.

Holding W + keeping archer center screen + attacking immediatly after archer has been touched = free kill

I would be perfectly fine with the shot being cancelled. But I got shot through my shield on 0,3m distance, which means the shot went through my shield. Which means it doesn't work the way you described it.

And by the way, I think a bump would be nicer, anyway. It represents some kind of shieldbash against someone who has nothing in his hands to prevent it. If an archer allows a shielder to approach him that closely, he should get punished properly.

[Jarlek]

You dont. If you touch him with your shield up his shot will be canceled and he has to draw another shot. Many people dont seem to notice this, the animation is quite unremarkable. When you touch an archers front with your shield who has not drawn his melee weapon you already got a free hit on him. The bump is completely unnecessary.

Holding W + keeping archer center screen + attacking immediatly after archer has been touched = free kill

Except.... this now takes much longer to happen. You've always had to be really close to an archer to do this before, but now it seems you have to be inside them. I agree that there shouldn't be a "you get stunned since I came inside of a 5m radius of you", but we shouldn't have to be INSIDE the archer either. I dunno what happened, but that bump seems to be delayed now or the distance needed has been lowered.

[Kafein]

- you have to be holding an attack or a block
- you have to be colliding with the enemy model
- you have to be walking/running towards him

Only if these three conditions are met the archer will have his shot cancelled. Standing next to him isn't enough, you have to be running inside him.

I think two things are fucked up, but only are a minor annoyance due to their rareness :

- By sidestepping just before the bump happens an archer can manage to shoot a shielder at facehug range even if all the shielder's attention is directed at the archer. High agi and low armor allows you to do that. I'm not saying it's easy though.
- Again with enough agi and low weight you can be forced to cancel your shot but still be able to get outside the shielder's reach unharmed after that.

Rumblood if you honestly think an archer is supposed to be shooting arrows when the model of his bow is into the model of his target, you can go fuck yourself. If a player ends up in melee range of an enemy, he takes a melee weapon.

Now I can understand why archers do this, simply because their melee options aren't bright at all, and that's also why I will lobby again for a more heavily armored and melee-able archery.

[Rumblood]

Rumblood if you honestly think an archer is supposed to be shooting arrows when the model of his bow is into the model of his target, you can go fuck yourself.

Screens or it didn't happen. You guys are making shit up just to have this implemented. You just think it went through due to lag/dropped your shield/inattentiveness/you were drunk.

[Joker86]

I had pretty good signs it went through. I died, for example. And I had my shield kept up all the time, because I planned to bump. And the kill message appeared. I got a death more on the scoreboard, and the archer got a kill more. I don't were any glasses, I was sober and I felt healthy. I was not tired and there was neither fog nor rain in my room. No mirage was raising from my floor so that the mirroring ceiling could have caused a Fata Morgana. There were no weathballoons or meteros.

Yes, I am pretty sure I saw what I saw.