Either make it so horses don't soak hits or riders should take 30% damage every time when dehorsed.
Most times cav players didnt have lots of chances when dehorsed therefore if that will happen more often, it is a good change imo. Cav is only cav when on horse, give them a chance when dehorsed, they're depending on the build a crippled infantry class.
Most times cav players didnt have lots of chances when dehorsed therefore if that will happen more often, it is a good change imo. Cav is only cav when on horse, give them a chance when dehorsed, they're depending on the build a crippled infantry class.
Well you can still hit them just fine when they're down.
Also, new patch is nerf to ranged, most to Throwers. Before, you throwing at enemy, he dies before your missile hits, no problem you just pick it back up and put it to use somewhere else. Now it hits his body, and is gone. Phantom nerf to range is still nerf.
... by nerfing cav obviously.
Also, when a cav player gets dehorsed, 80 percent of the time the player is wounded. Either by previous arrows or by the dehorse itself.
I don't understand that argument. We shouldn't add fall damage to riders when their horse dies, because they've already been shot and damaged while they were killing other people ?No, I am not saying you should not add fall damage to riders because of that. I am saying that usually you should not have too much trouble with finishing of a downed rider, even with the horse soaking damage. Anyways, I really dont care if my horse soaks up damage for a second or not, im fine without the soaking of damage. I just want to point out that cav gets the full load of hate, while infantry have the exact same buff, only by bodies of teammates and enemies. Seems to me that enemies and teammates die a lot more next or on top of you when being infantry.
That's completely irrelevant.
If the cav player was wounded by arrows, then he was wounded by arrows. Maybe he took thoses arrows before killing the 4 archers, maybe he didn't kill any. No matter, it was his choice. And the result is : He's still riding on his horse, still efficient.
Now, he does a mistake, and gets dehorsed. But NOW he doesn't get as much damaged when dehorsed as previously, because "sometimes" the horse's body soaks hit. So it's the perfect moment to add a little "fall" damaged, based on the horse's current speed. That's all. If the rider had already lost 90% of his life, then he may consider dismounting himself. You're not "STUCK" to your horse till he dies, so you don't "have" to fall of your horse. That's your choice, always. Take responsibility.
I quit swinging at them on the ground. Half the time my swing goes through them and they come up off the ground with weapon in hand and 1 hit kill me after my weapon passed through them.
I quit swinging at them on the ground. Half the time my swing goes through them and they come up off the ground with weapon in hand and 1 hit kill me after my weapon passed through them.
So is it just me, or is the hype of hating cav just continuing and are you all just being overreacting whiney women in labor?
nerf cav nerf cav nerf cav
I quit swinging at them on the ground. Half the time my swing goes through them and they come up off the ground with weapon in hand and 1 hit kill me after my weapon passed through them.
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That's so true, even with 130 short iron staff they are avoiding me, most of them except the very best. C-o-w-a-r-d-s.
visitors can't see pics , please register or loginBecause as infantry, you would wait for an enemy to turn around so you can have a fair fight?
Because as infantry, you would wait for an enemy to turn around so you can have a fair fight?
Infantry backstab whenever they can, my ignorant friend. The only difference is that we can switch targets faster then you can.
Because as infantry, you would wait for an enemy to turn around so you can have a fair fight?
Infantry backstab whenever they can, my ignorant friend. The only difference is that we can switch targets faster then you can.
Because as infantry, you would wait for an enemy to turn around so you can have a fair fight?
Infantry backstab whenever they can, my ignorant friend. The only difference is that we can ONE HIT KILL EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING ON THE BACKSTABS.
Fixed. Not to mention that usually when an infantry backstab 1 guy, he gets noticed by everyone around, while Cavalry are just so fast that they can backstab multiple people for one hit kills without as much as being damaged since you can just ride away into the sunset.Let's not start overreacting here. We definately do not oneshot everything. We can most of the time oneshot archers (except for that damn bagge). Players in medium armor we rarely oneshot, except if we hit them in the head but that requires some luck and aiming. They tend to move around :P
And it still happens when I have 6 power strike, just not as much.
Get a long spear or try using some form of tactics and teamwork. Where's the problem?
The problem here is that long spears and pikes are a defensive counter and the only way to kill you would be if you'd ride toward me, which you obviously won't since I have a long god damned weapon.
The other problem is how we're forced to use a percent of our battle force just to take care of 1 cavalry, so just because there's 1 horse roaming around that can fuck shit up, the enemy team has to use more than 1 of their infantry to deal with it, effectively making the number that would otherwise be busy fighting the other infantries and archers even less.
See it as cavalry being worth more than 1 player at once just because they're on horseback, not to mention that when they get dehorsed, they can just whistle for another horse and be back at full power, effectively bringing the already very low risk/reward ratio of the cavalry even lower.
As San mentionned, even when you get dehorsed, you don't really get punished, if there's enough players, you might die but usually everyone either miss or whiff on you because of fucked up hit detections OR you're under the ground and you're invincible until you get back up. Oh right, as San mentionned again, there's also when the downed rider either teleports or get launched far far away from harm's way.
The problem here is that long spears and pikes are a defensive counter and the only way to kill you would be if you'd ride toward me, which you obviously won't since I have a long god damned weapon.
The other problem is how we're forced to use a percent of our battle force just to take care of 1 cavalry, so just because there's 1 horse roaming around that can fuck shit up, the enemy team has to use more than 1 of their infantry to deal with it, effectively making the number that would otherwise be busy fighting the other infantries and archers even less.
See it as cavalry being worth more than 1 player at once just because they're on horseback, not to mention that when they get dehorsed, they can just whistle for another horse and be back at full power, effectively bringing the already very low risk/reward ratio of the cavalry even lower.
As San mentionned, even when you get dehorsed, you don't really get punished, if there's enough players, you might die but usually everyone either miss or whiff on you because of fucked up hit detections OR you're under the ground and you're invincible until you get back up. Oh right, as San mentionned again, there's also when the downed rider either teleports or get launched far far away from harm's way.
You see, until recently, cav when dehorsed could easily be killed while still laying on the ground. That makes perfect sense because mounted they have advantage over infantry players.
However, now when dead bodies are soaking hits horses can save riders from certain death in most cases.
The corpses soaking your attacks happens to every class, It's not a cav exclusive problem.
...riders should take30%damage every time when dehorsed.
I just have qualms about low PS builds doing massive damage, but I suppose that's only when you are going fast anyways.
Cavalry benefits from it more so than infantry outside of not accidently teamwounding people because you're commited to your attack and can't cancel it in time.
Well I can confirm that 0 PS damage does fuck all and glancing often. I sometimes take a heavy lance or pick an MW heavy lance off the ground with my HA.
Ugh, I'm talking about 2-4 PS here at least. How much damage is "fuck all" and glancing often =/= glancing every time like most infantry would.
It's possible, but I'd rather find a different solution...(click to show/hide)
Then again :
So what to think...
Everytime i get dehorse in EU the chance for me to survive is around 30%, in NA its almost 0 % because those people have just too much str
Do you really believe a 8-20% damage from total health upon falling from horse, based on the horse speed is so much of a nerf, and that it will SO MUCH narrow your chance to survive when dehorsed ?
As you just said, it's almost 0 on NA anyway...
Cav is only OP when there is group of cavalry working together, lone cav is underpowered, if you come to play on NA server you will notice how underpowered we are, in NA people have too much str and mostly 90% i have to say i get dehorse in 1 melee hit, all the time, no matter if it was 1 handed weapon, 2 handed but sometime polearm take 2 hits. any more nerf to cav will just make the class totally unplayable, to be honest playing as cav in NA is a pain in the ass
Everytime i get dehorse in EU the chance for me to survive is around 30%, in NA its almost 0 % because those people have just too much str
That might just be your high ping screwing you up. Cav is still easy on NA. A lot of the best players are also doing cav/infantry hybrids at the moment, too (namely the remnant clan, tkov, astralis, chaos). When I get dehorsed on my 24/15 7 IF and ~54 body armor, I survive 90%+ of the time if I am at full health.
Today, I was dehorsed by a 2h who proceeded to slash at me multiple times. Each slash missed. I think it was because the horse was covering my body. I proceeded to get up and kill him. I think he deserved those two hits on me and the horse covering me was complete bs.
Here's why I want fall damage based on speed when dehorsed:
1. You fly farther when dehorsed at high speeds. It takes a while for the melee to get to you. If you get dehorsed while still, that's when melee gets hits on you easily and you don't even need much fall damage.
2. Helps ranged prioritize killing horses. Sometimes, it's a blessing to have your horse shot down. You will rarely get hurt if you're dehorsed far away, and the ranged still won't be able to touch you much if you have a shield anyways. Only a thrower can reliably dehorse then attack the person on the ground, but if the cav was a shielder, he's pretty much dead/forced to run.
3. Makes up for horse coverage (or it should probably just be removed?)
EDIT
4. Makes picking up a random horse risky, since if it's not at full health, you could be dehorsed again and receive additional damage.
Horses need to take damage running into walls, objects, and other cav.
Riders need to take some kind of fall damage when their horse dies.
You're getting ahead of yourself there...
Cav dehorsed at high speeds are typically out of melee players' reach when dehorsed, and they may get in 1 hit if they have a long polearm. Ranged often times dehorse cav when they are moving quite fast, also. Cav that are dehorsed after stopping are screwed anyways. I survive 90% of the time when I am dehorsed, since I plan for "safe" dehorsing situations when my horse's health is low.
30% is trivial, anyways.
This also makes it more risky to pick up another horse, since that's another possible 30%.
If you can't handle fighting against a few opponents on foot sometimes (who are mostly support if they consist of archers and pikes) you probably need to spend a little more time training. If you charged a large group of players and was punished for it, you were simply too reckless.
As an archer, when i myself dehorse the time, i often don't have the time to shoot at the rider before he gets up.
But when someone else dehorse him, i can. And most of the times, i aim for the head. And it's a good aim. But it's just stupid when the head temporarily "sinks" into the ground, so my arrow hit the ground, or when the horse's body "slides" covering the body of the cav, making me loose an arrow.
This situations were easy kills for me. Now, they're easy deaths, since the cav gets up unharmed while i'm stupidly next to hit (3m), having lost my perfect aim shot to a dead horse or a sinkable ground...
Adding fall damage would definitely be a way to make up for all thoses "you can't hit me when i'm just dehorsed" that appeared.
Then again :
So what to think...
Good tactics always pay off. The existence of good tactics is not an argument for supporting a pointless nerf, however.
30% of hp is trivial? Allow me to hit you for 30% in spawn for a few maps?
Is picking up another horse something that should be so punished? It's already rather risky as you don't know how much HP the horse has and you risk another round of free hits on the ground if you try to grab one.
Is further punishment really necessary?
I don't know where this came from. "If you can't beat several people at once, you are a bad player." Please stop spouting nonsense that has no relation to the game balancing discussion.
Good tactics always pay off. The existence of good tactics is not an argument for supporting a pointless nerf, however.
30% of hp is trivial? Allow me to hit you for 30% in spawn for a few maps?Yes, it is. If you get dehorsed at full speed, 30% is not much compared to what it probably should be.
Is picking up another horse something that should be so punished? It's already rather risky as you don't know how much HP the horse has and you risk another round of free hits on the ground if you try to grab one.I don't think it's risky. It's easy to get dehorsed without punishment if you choose your targets correctly. You shouldn't be rewarded or say no big deal for screwing up and getting your horse killed, especially multiple times, only to summon another 1-2 horses.
Is further punishment really necessary?
I don't know where this came from. "If you can't beat several people at once, you are a bad player." Please stop spouting nonsense that has no relation to the game balancing discussion.
Hate to say it (but I don't really) but your point of view is exactly that, a point of view.
It is also not pointless due to the fact that horses cover your body, now. I would call that a pointless buff.
"Further" compared to what? Cav have many aspects of their design that prevent them from getting punished for their mistakes (side bump from 0 speed, crashing, jumping(in general) to avoid crashing/attacks, etc.) A lot of that stuff makes cav more interesting, but it's still ridiculous how much zany stuff you can do.
I tried hard to sound as least condescending as possible, and it's still blown out of proportion.
By few people, I REALLY mean a few, 1-2 usually, maybe even 3, mostly consisting of SUPPORT players.
"Further" compared to what?
Getting damage when dehorsed helps the support/anti-cav players fight you once you whip out your elite 2 slot dueling weapon.
I never called anyone a bad player, just tried to say that that situation is not really that unfavorable once you get up.