Newest cav buff

[Emotion]

Ugh, I'm talking about 2-4 PS here at least. How much damage is "fuck all" and glancing often =/= glancing every time like most infantry would.

San is biggest(fattest too) noob in crpg.
Final Answer.
The End.
Lock Thread.

[San]

Damage on horse with 0 PS sounds interesting, so I was wondering how much damage he actually did. Agi build to me is 21/18 so 0PS came as a surprise.


The horse soaking up the hit is definitely disorienting after having just experienced it with the new update on NA, but I could get used to it I suppose. Damage when dehorsed still makes plenty of sense either way.

[Bulzur]

As an archer, when i myself dehorse the time, i often don't have the time to shoot at the rider before he gets up.
But when someone else dehorse him, i can. And most of the times, i aim for the head. And it's a good aim. But it's just stupid when the head temporarily "sinks" into the ground, so my arrow hit the ground, or when the horse's body "slides" covering the body of the cav, making me loose an arrow.
This situations were easy kills for me. Now, they're easy deaths, since the cav gets up unharmed while i'm stupidly next to hit (3m), having lost my perfect aim shot to a dead horse or a sinkable ground...

Adding fall damage would definitely be a way to make up for all thoses "you can't hit me when i'm just dehorsed" that appeared.

Then again :

It's possible, but I'd rather find a different solution...

(click to show/hide)

... by nerfing cav obviously.

So what to think...

[_Tak_]

Then again :
So what to think...

Cav is only OP when there is group of cavalry working together, lone cav is underpowered, if you come to play on NA server you will notice how underpowered we are, in NA people have too much str and mostly 90% i have to say i get dehorse in 1 melee hit, all the time, no matter if it was 1 handed weapon, 2 handed but sometime polearm take 2 hits. any more nerf to cav will just make the class totally unplayable, to be honest playing as cav in NA is a pain in the ass

Everytime i get dehorse in EU the chance for me to survive is around 30%, in NA its almost 0 % because those people have just too much str

[Bulzur]

Everytime i get dehorse in EU the chance for me to survive is around 30%, in NA its almost 0 % because those people have just too much str

Do you really believe a 8-20% damage from total health upon falling from horse, based on the horse speed is so much of a nerf, and that it will SO MUCH narrow your chance to survive when dehorsed ?
As you just said, it's almost 0 on NA anyway...

[_Tak_]

Do you really believe a 8-20% damage from total health upon falling from horse, based on the horse speed is so much of a nerf, and that it will SO MUCH narrow your chance to survive when dehorsed ?
As you just said, it's almost 0 on NA anyway...

I wouldn't mind taking a bit of damage when i fall from a horse to make it more realistic, but if there is a group of infantry nearby the chance of you getting back up again is hugely reduce since you will just get gangrape, even if you managed to get up they will just cut you to pieces.

Been playing on NA for almost 3 days, on NA all archers have very high PD, kill my horse exactly in 1 shot (if to the head), if you use any sort of horse and mindlessly charge into a group of NA players you will die in less than 1-2 seconds, those people have insane amount of PS/PT/PD.

Infantry pretty much top score on every map, there is alot infantry maps lately and less Cav maps, on NA there ain't that many cav than in EU because most people think Cav is useless, i really wish i could come back to EU soon because this is getting very frustrated for me,  imagine a team full of people with over 10 PS, i guess thats why alot of people in NA always press M when someone Team wound them. So far everytime when i get dehorse i never get back up because after they dehorse me they instan-kill me in 1 hit. HX were everywhere too and it is madness, but its not really that fun when you keep seeing your char/horse die in always 1 hit. I am a cav without shield so I don't use force-shield to cheat my life ;p

[San]

Cav is only OP when there is group of cavalry working together, lone cav is underpowered, if you come to play on NA server you will notice how underpowered we are, in NA people have too much str and mostly 90% i have to say i get dehorse in 1 melee hit, all the time, no matter if it was 1 handed weapon, 2 handed but sometime polearm take 2 hits. any more nerf to cav will just make the class totally unplayable, to be honest playing as cav in NA is a pain in the ass

Everytime i get dehorse in EU the chance for me to survive is around 30%, in NA its almost 0 % because those people have just too much str

That might just be your high ping screwing you up. Cav is still easy on NA. A lot of the best players are also doing cav/infantry hybrids at the moment, too (namely the remnant clan, tkov, astralis, chaos). When I get dehorsed on my 24/15 7 IF and ~54 body armor, I survive 90%+ of the time if I am at full health.

Today, I was dehorsed by a 2h who proceeded to slash at me multiple times. Each slash missed. I think it was because the horse was covering my body. I proceeded to get up and kill him. I think he deserved those two hits on me and the horse covering me was complete bs.



Here's why I want fall damage based on speed when dehorsed:

1. At higher speeds, it's more likely you get dehorsed from an attack to your horse's behind/side and you will fly pretty far from melee. It will take a while for the melee to get to you. If you get dehorsed while still, that's when melee gets hits on you easily and you don't even need much fall damage.

2. Helps ranged prioritize killing horses. Sometimes, it's a blessing to have your horse shot down. You will rarely get hurt if you're dehorsed far away, and the ranged still won't be able to touch you much if you have a shield anyways. Only a thrower can reliably dehorse then attack the person on the ground, but if the cav was a shielder, he's pretty much dead/forced to run.

3. Makes up for horse coverage (or it should probably just be removed?)

EDIT

4. Makes picking up a random horse risky, since if it's not at full health, you could be dehorsed again and receive additional damage.

[_Tak_]

That might just be your high ping screwing you up. Cav is still easy on NA. A lot of the best players are also doing cav/infantry hybrids at the moment, too (namely the remnant clan, tkov, astralis, chaos). When I get dehorsed on my 24/15 7 IF and ~54 body armor, I survive 90%+ of the time if I am at full health.

Today, I was dehorsed by a 2h who proceeded to slash at me multiple times. Each slash missed. I think it was because the horse was covering my body. I proceeded to get up and kill him. I think he deserved those two hits on me and the horse covering me was complete bs.



Here's why I want fall damage based on speed when dehorsed:

1. You fly farther when dehorsed at high speeds. It takes a while for the melee to get to you. If you get dehorsed while still, that's when melee gets hits on you easily and you don't even need much fall damage.

2. Helps ranged prioritize killing horses. Sometimes, it's a blessing to have your horse shot down. You will rarely get hurt if you're dehorsed far away, and the ranged still won't be able to touch you much if you have a shield anyways. Only a thrower can reliably dehorse then attack the person on the ground, but if the cav was a shielder, he's pretty much dead/forced to run.

3. Makes up for horse coverage (or it should probably just be removed?)

EDIT

4. Makes picking up a random horse risky, since if it's not at full health, you could be dehorsed again and receive additional damage.

I get around ping from 100-115 in NA, Yes there is alot alot of good cav players i have seen on NA pretty much the same as EU, although i have seen some unique play style and learn something from NA players, they do well both on horse + on foot, people with higher armor do deserve to survive because you have spend alot of money investment into repair cost, people in NA do have a very very very high str, you see in EU we don;t have that amount of str stackers, we more likely have alot of agi whores instead, i am not one of those str stacker and i am an agi whore rider tbh. On EU we have alot of light-gear cav riding on horses, but doing that on NA seems to be impossible, everyone can 1 hit/ 1shot you very easily, while on the other hand if you do this on EU the chance for you to top score/ survive is higher. In NA i notice alot of people are more aware, in EU we have alot of noobs who is totally unaware of incoming cav and sadly they become one of the cav meal

On EU i can just ride on courser and charge into a crowd of people and there could be a 50% of chance for me to survive out there, on the other hand if i do this on NA players i am pretty much a dead man, i have seen alot of time where my horse and other horse rider die in mostly 1 hit in NA, even heavy horse like cata die in 3 hits.

[Oberyn]

Lungy, I have exactly the opposite experience.  The average infantry/foot ranged in NA are less aware of cavalry, maybe because there is less of it overall. Using the typical arab horse build I use on EU I have pretty much the same results. Plus it's probably easier to play with the GK crowd when you guys do your typical spawn rush en masse, I'm guessing you don't have the same type of cav "teamwork" available to you there.

[Konrax]

Horses need to take damage running into walls, objects, and other cav.

Riders need to take some kind of fall damage when their horse dies. Make the damage scale based on max speed (100% = 30% damage) and I would also include an amour modifier that will reduce the fall by something but not a significant amount if they are wearing decent armour and above. (somewhat realistic too since horsemen plate actually had a fixed neck that didn't allow the rider to turn their head at all so if they fell they wouldn't break their necks.)

[Rhekimos]

Horses need to take damage running into walls, objects, and other cav.

Riders need to take some kind of fall damage when their horse dies.

Why would they need to take damage? To make the ensuing infantry rape even easier?

How would this change the game? More people would abandon athletics completely as you would die anyhow and get 8 or 9 riding and cav would be seen as even more OP. And the whining continues.

[San]

You're getting ahead of yourself there...

Cav dehorsed at high speeds are typically out of melee players' reach when dehorsed, and they may get in 1 hit if they have a long polearm. Ranged often times dehorse cav when they are moving quite fast, also. Cav that are dehorsed after stopping are screwed anyways. I survive 90% of the time when I am dehorsed, since I plan for "safe" dehorsing situations when my horse's health is low. 30% is trivial, anyways.

This also makes it more risky to pick up another horse, since that's another possible 30%.

If you can't handle fighting against a few opponents on foot sometimes (who are mostly support if they consist of archers and pikes) you probably need to spend a little more time training. If you charged a large group of players and was punished for it, you were simply too reckless.

[Rhekimos]

You're getting ahead of yourself there...

Cav dehorsed at high speeds are typically out of melee players' reach when dehorsed, and they may get in 1 hit if they have a long polearm. Ranged often times dehorse cav when they are moving quite fast, also. Cav that are dehorsed after stopping are screwed anyways. I survive 90% of the time when I am dehorsed, since I plan for "safe" dehorsing situations when my horse's health is low.

Good tactics always pay off. The existence of good tactics is not an argument for supporting a pointless nerf, however.

30% is trivial, anyways.

30% of hp is trivial? Allow me to hit you for 30% in spawn for a few maps?

This also makes it more risky to pick up another horse, since that's another possible 30%.

Is picking up another horse something that should be so punished? It's already rather risky as you don't know how much HP the horse has and you risk another round of free hits on the ground if you try to grab one.

Is further punishment really necessary?

If you can't handle fighting against a few opponents on foot sometimes (who are mostly support if they consist of archers and pikes) you probably need to spend a little more time training. If you charged a large group of players and was punished for it, you were simply too reckless.

I don't know where this came from. "If you can't beat several people at once, you are a bad player." Please stop spouting nonsense that has no relation to the game balancing discussion.

[Rumblood]

As an archer, when i myself dehorse the time, i often don't have the time to shoot at the rider before he gets up.
But when someone else dehorse him, i can. And most of the times, i aim for the head. And it's a good aim. But it's just stupid when the head temporarily "sinks" into the ground, so my arrow hit the ground, or when the horse's body "slides" covering the body of the cav, making me loose an arrow.
This situations were easy kills for me. Now, they're easy deaths, since the cav gets up unharmed while i'm stupidly next to hit (3m), having lost my perfect aim shot to a dead horse or a sinkable ground...

Adding fall damage would definitely be a way to make up for all thoses "you can't hit me when i'm just dehorsed" that appeared.

Then again :
So what to think...

Now I wait until near the end of the "dehorsed" animation. Much less chicanery involving the ground eating the body temporarily and protecting it from an arse arrow.

[Konrax]

Good tactics always pay off. The existence of good tactics is not an argument for supporting a pointless nerf, however.

30% of hp is trivial? Allow me to hit you for 30% in spawn for a few maps?

Is picking up another horse something that should be so punished? It's already rather risky as you don't know how much HP the horse has and you risk another round of free hits on the ground if you try to grab one.

Is further punishment really necessary?

I don't know where this came from. "If you can't beat several people at once, you are a bad player." Please stop spouting nonsense that has no relation to the game balancing discussion.

Hate to say it (but I don't really) but your point of view is exactly that, a point of view. You should suffer for your horse going down, and if your at full speed then maybe you should suffer more. As it stands now being dehorsed provides a small window to be hit, and a somewhat forcefield upon getting up. Instead of allowing this buff to go on unhindered, the proposition was that you take a specific amount of damage.

Pretty good trade off no? A set amount of damage vs the chance of being killed anyways when your overwhelmed.