cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Bjord on June 11, 2012, 01:35:31 pm
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At the moment, I am strongly opting for the revision. It is an obtrusive implementation and it dumbs down combat so much you'd think devs are catering for little children. This game is tough, and this game requires a lot of patience. I am strong proponent of balanced combat, but this is not what the new turnspeed limit has accomplished. The thrust animation is the longest one and it needs to be displaced from the target before engaging it again, since it has the highest chance of glancing on an enemy. Simply because it hits later in the animation.
What do you think of the turnspeed limit? Discuss.
P.S This does not only affect 2h, this affects every weapon. Try the thrust and you'll see. :)
I think that the turnspeed limit is too universal. It should only be applied to above-average heavy, very long and unbalanced weapons.
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whatisdisIgottotryitingamebutabundle of stickstostudy
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No more lolrotatestabbing long spears and pikes?
I love it.
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Do it. Those players with the pike turning around and getting kills is just awful. They even manage to hit if they only have 1m distance to their enemy. That's hilarious stupid...
Pike / Long Spear is a support weapon after all.
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Do it. Those players with the pike turning around and getting kills is just awful. They even manage to hit if they only have 1m distance to their enemy. That's hilarious stupid...
Pike / Long Spear is a support weapon after all.
It's already in. Bjord wants it removed again. Tho I take from your post that you don't want it removed. 8-)
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making 1h stab even more useless? meh, 1h stab should get reworked then too
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I think that the turnspeed limit is too universal. It should only be applied to above-average heavy, very long and unbalanced weapons.
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Havn't played it yet, but sounds like quite a big nerf to 1/2 directional weapons.
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It's already in. Bjord wants it removed again. Tho I take from your post that you don't want it removed. 8-)
Not sure if I understood it then. :D
at least yesterday a pike player managed to kill me by just turning around and jump when standing a meter in front of me. So I dont believe there was any limit anyway.
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Havn't played it yet, but sounds like quite a big nerf to 1/2 directional weapons.
Such as yourself, you mean.
Don't get me wrong, this new limit has been successful somewhat. No more long spear storms hitting everything like a weapon of mass destruction. But it is just too widespread and general of a nerf.
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guys i dont know if any of you played the sp lately but the turnign speed there is just as low as it is here now. its just awful. i wont play crpg anymore untill they fix this, this is no fun for me.
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They implemented that? Now spears got nerfed even more? Fine... gonna look for another weapon to use :?
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I'm still playing without lancher but I guess this is server side so it shouldn't matter. Haven't noticed any major changes so far.
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Long awlpike is atrociously bad right now. Its overhead was piss already, now the thrust is useless too. As for pikes, you don't really need the spinning that much since you still have massive range. I tried my +3 pike, it's still okay.
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This is getting ridiculous. They have nerfed the combat of this game so many times, but this is rly just.... dumb.
This game was so fun, when i started playing it. And the combat system was amazing, there was so many small details and tricks to it. The combat system had so much depth to it, but now it has close to nothing.
I really do not like this, all of the 1v1's is gonna last 10 mins if both players can block. And its impossible to fight 2v1, if they just spread out around u, since u cant turn enough.
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remove this derpness
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Don't get me wrong, this new limit has been successful somewhat. No more long spear storms hitting everything like a weapon of mass destruction. But it is just too widespread and general of a nerf.
Then why remove and not improve it instead?
I played only a short time with it, and yeah, feels awful. Still I think its a bit too early to tell, but first impression is that it makes the game kinda more sluggish overall.
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i see 2h still rape everyone on servers and have top score all the time. Get better then.
Cav got nerf,polearms got nerf,archery and throwing got nerf,so yeah 2h were need to get nerf. Only 1h should get one too.
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i see 2h still rape everyone on servers and have top score all the time. Get better then.
Cav got nerf,polearms got nerf,archery and throwing got nerf,so yeah 2h were need to get nerf. Only 1h should get one too.
This nerf is nerfing everyone ?
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Yes! First they nerfed polestagger,then they nerfed cav manouver in this patch,ranged are crying how usless is some throwing weapons,adn archers report inaccurate arrow direction. Now they removed that thrust fron 2h. So yeah they nerfed every class exept 1h.
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I think that the turnspeed limit is too universal. It should only be applied to above-average heavy, very long and unbalanced weapons.
I kinda like this suggestion. Might tweak it to take weapon length and weight into account.
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yuo can ask panos and cmp i was yesterday in chat when cmp told that they nerfed manouver of horses and then he said that they are gonna nerf 2h.
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Maneuver wasn't nerfed. It was adjusted on the new servers to match the value on the old/other servers (been there for months).
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Oh,then i better remove my offers on market. :D
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So yeah they nerfed every class exept 1h.
Not really, it affects all classes. I no longer can efficently control fight against multiple enemies, picking up fight against two oponenets is pain in the ass since I can't turn my shield into hit on time. When I get into the crowed I am doomed. I feel like moving in mud. I am far from QQing or GTXting but I can't say that I like the change. I am not a fun of lolstabs of any kind but that definatly need some tweaking.
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I no longer can efficently control fight against multiple enemies, picking up fight against two oponenets is pain in the ass since I can't turn my shield into hit on time.
What? Only thrust and overhead turning speed were changed, how does that affect defending at all?
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What? Only thrust and overhead turning speed were changed, how does that affect defending at all?
It doesn't. I can still shield-block tons of enemies at once.
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I guess removing it is a bit zealous, but it needs to be looked at.
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Why is the turnspeed limit here?
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Because long spear fencing(the term itself ridiculous) is fucking ridiculous.
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I still haven't noticed a thing. But that's maybe because I don't fight like a human helicopter.
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Because long spear fencing(the term itself ridiculous) is fucking ridiculous.
Specific problems require specific fixes.
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So there is no difference when I walk, turn around and start a long spear attack after that? If so I don't think I'll have a problem with it. Else it would be a huge buff to backstabbing cav as you can't even turn around in time if you see them too late.
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I had wierd impression that it somehow does :oops: maybe I just faced awsome gankers :lol:
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So there is no difference when I walk, turn around and start a long spear attack after that? If so I don't think I'll have a problem with it. Else it would be a huge buff to backstabbing cav as you can't even turn around in time if you see them too late.
No difference at all.
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Because long spear fencing(the term itself ridiculous) is fucking ridiculous.
Finally the real problem is arriving at 2h-heads :mrgreen:
The main issue I had all the time were the pike-/pole-"helicopters", as Leshma put it.
Though I have to say - havent played yet - that 2h-stabs were more than funny too. I saw people starting the 2h stab while turning way over 90° just to stab it into the face of some dude behind them. That was fucked up as well.
I cant tell yet if the changes - I won't speak about a nerf - were too harsh. I love though that there is an end to the "helicopters" which were just stupid. People can talk about tricks, of little details, of combat depth as much as they want... at the end it was just a broken game mechanic which seems to be somewhat fixed now.
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As a one-hander and mostly scimitar user I rightfully exploited my lobbying right and voted "no".
These forum polls are as useful as a guidebook for playing chess in the desert. Also, two-handed tears are fun to read as always, was sort of hoping for some input coming from GXT since he's the master-whiner (sorry Bjord), but somehow it's missing. Actually nevermind, I missed it, it didn't dissapoint, would read again. :lol:
I kinda like this suggestion. Might tweak it to take weapon length and weight into account.
Though two-handed greatsword is still one of the longest weapons out there, so I don't think it will help much about these threads. :wink:
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When I read this I thought "Oh gawd what did they do", joined with my long spear alt just to find very little change in game. If I observate correctly the turnspeed does not get altered when holding or chambering a weapon, only for the duration of the attack animation your turnspeed is limited. Anyway I dont see anything to go hypochondriac about.
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I support the change...I think it affects everyone which sucks but it definitely affects the problematic actions from certain weapons (as has been mentioned in this thread so I wont repeat) more than others.
I think this change accomplishes what it was supposed to.
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wow, then you really have no clue what you talking about. I played around 20 gens of long spear, and it´s totally different now, much harder to survive and to kill.
You are right, Im no dedicated piker. Also not a helicopter.
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[...]
...much harder to survive and to kill.
Good. 8-)
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Nothing really changed. Good players still own, great long spear users still own. Players still own groups of players with "footwork" aka dancing.
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I have to agree wtih GTX. It's pretty silly, i mean it's not game breaking or anything but it's another step towards dumbing down already dumbed down combat.
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Though two-handed greatsword is still one of the longest weapons out there, so I don't think it will help much about these threads. :wink:
Oh, it's not meant to - I just thought it might make it more interesting. It would probably end up de-nerfing 1h and light weapons a bit and nerfing pikes/mauls a bit more.
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The people complaining about this are morons. Yes, it should only be applied to heavy/unbalanced/very long weapons (which cmp said he would address). But helicopter swinging SHOULD have been nerfed.
You shouldn't be able to thrust a pike, and lol-spin your mouse and do massive damage to anyone you connect with (not to mention anyone in your circumference would be able to be hit so you don't even need to target someone). This was also able to be done with the great maul. After it was already "in the ground" (animation was basically finished with the overhead) you could lol-spin and anyone in your spin radius was still able to be hit (and you gain a speed bonus).
This was a problem, and I'm glad they addressed it. You can still jump, lol-spin, and stab if I'm reading into this correctly...you just can't jump, thrust and then lol-spin.
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Okay, but these weapons mostly needed the spin, to not bouce off clear hits.
What are they going to do now?
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if you are a long spear men like me, when other melee come near, run for your life and hope for teammates
I'm no agi whore... I'm dead now :(
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sry but this isnt right way - making fighting less versatile and less varied..
for pikes this might be ok but for all other weapons it simply sucks..
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Okay, but these weapons mostly needed the spin, to not bouce off clear hits.
What are they going to do now?
I believe that the sweetspots will be adjusted in the very near future to address this problem.
The re-balancing phase of crpg is still ongoing, so please be a bit patient.
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sry but this isnt right way - making fighting less versatile and less varied..
for pikes this might be ok but for all other weapons it simply sucks..
Less varied? If we tweak the turning speed based on weight/length it will make fighting much more varied.
Unless we have a different definition of varied, that is.
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Less varied? If we tweak the turning speed based on weight/length it will make fighting much more varied.
Unless we have a different definition of varied, that is.
I think he was referring to the current situation, not the tweaks planned in future patches.
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he cant abuse polearm stab + stagger anymore
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cmp, you should set the turn rate limit based on the weapon's moment of inertia, (mL^2)/3 for slender rods being held at one end, where m is the mass and L is the length. Obviously this is a simplification, but close enough.
This would satisfy both realism and balance (I don't think anyone ever complained about Long Dagger lolspins).
To compensate, spears/pikes should get 100% chance for the old polestun on the thrust only. Turns pikemen into an effective support role again, rather than the whirliebirds of solo destruction they had devolved into.
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I think he was referring to the current situation, not the tweaks planned in future patches.
this
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I believe that the sweetspots will be adjusted in the very near future to address this problem.
The re-balancing phase of crpg is still ongoing, so please be a bit patient.
Hmm. Sounds interesting.
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Are we missing something in NA? Not seeing a lol stab nerf to be honest. Since my setup is not particularily good for lolstab I welcome any nerf to it, and not sure I like the idea of super weapons not getting the same treatment (i.e. those sissy little spears, etc.).
EDIT:
though we all know any nerf to inf is a buff for cav, and you should know how I want that to go :P
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Well if they implemented it in my ideal fashion, you could still turn 180 degrees (or at least 90-135 degrees) after thrusting your weapon, but more than that and you'd lose the thrust animation. You don't see it very often, but sometimes people would jump, thrust, and spin 3 or 4 times before hitting the ground. I think it was to stop that from happening.
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Keep it nerfed like it is atm for pikes, long spears, greatswords/HBS, other polearms with over 150 length and change it back for only small weapons such as 1h's, longsword, spears etc etc.
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After trying the turning limit out extensively i have to say: It it not bad at all (which i expected)...
I really like it.
2hander btw
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I have been dueling on eu 3 with my long espada eslanova and it has screwed things up for 1h imo.
you cant stab close up and straigth, and now i notice all my spinstabs failing.
stop lolstabing on longspears and greatswords is a nice idea, but please don't forget the little class that is 1h trying to survive out there. thank you
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Berenger, stop lobbying for 2h nerfs all the time. :(
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So if I'm turned sideways, can you stab and turn into the person (who is like 90 degrees to my left or right)? Just wondering as I won't be able to try this until tonight.
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Its not that bad as it sounds, but needs improving.
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So if I'm turned sideways, can you stab and turn into the person (who is like 90 degrees to my left or right)? Just wondering as I won't be able to try this until tonight.
Not unless you wait with the release and turn 90 degrees while holding the thrust.
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Well that's too drastic then. You should be able to release the thrust and turn into people somewhat (like 90 degrees). You shouldn't be able to turn 3 times before the thrust finishes and still connect with any accuracy or power.
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Not unless you wait with the release and turn 90 degrees while holding the thrust.
So not true. You obviously don't know what 90 degrees are...
90 degrees can easily be done. Not much more but those 90 do still work!
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Put it on NA1 please.. I got alts to try all this out.
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Hmm I must go and see if this has any meaning in duels. If it has, then I should be able to beat Cicero and his "dancing" now :D
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cmp, you should set the turn rate limit based on the weapon's moment of inertia, (mL^2)/3 for slender rods being held at one end, where m is the mass and L is the length. Obviously this is a simplification, but close enough.
This would satisfy both realism and balance (I don't think anyone ever complained about Long Dagger lolspins).
To compensate, spears/pikes should get 100% chance for the old polestagger on the thrust only. Turns pikemen into an effective support role again, rather than the whirliebirds of solo destruction they had devolved into.
this.
Well if they implemented it in my ideal fashion, you could still turn 180 degrees (or at least 90-135 degrees) after thrusting your weapon, but more than that and you'd lose the thrust animation. You don't see it very often, but sometimes people would jump, thrust, and spin 3 or 4 times before hitting the ground. I think it was to stop that from happening.
if it's possible, the character could just be slowed down that much, that it just wouldn't make any sense to turn around more than 180 degree, because you can't jump and turn as fast as the time of the jump (or run) takes. if it's done right you shouldn't be able to swing/turn around your long-spear in thrusting mode to hit somebody behind you, at any high enough speed at all.
but devs, while you're at, make sure the vertical speed gets into consideration too, if possible.
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I welcome the change. Helicoptering was silly. It does degrade many polearms to pure support weapons, that's true. I don't think there's much that can be done about that, though.
I especially like that it's now much easier to dodge maul overheads.
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it turned cRPG into a turn based battle game ... with that speed it's really not amusing to play.
Mod is de
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Make stabs don't bounce all the time when someone's close and turning ain't needed :rolleyes:
As of now, the 2-directional polearms are dead, I'm awaiting their resurrection by some cmp black magic in the near future. If not, then mod is dead
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The people complaining about this are morons. Yes, it should only be applied to heavy/unbalanced/very long weapons (which cmp said he would address). But helicopter swinging SHOULD have been nerfed.
You shouldn't be able to thrust a pike, and lol-spin your mouse and do massive damage to anyone you connect with (not to mention anyone in your circumference would be able to be hit so you don't even need to target someone). This was also able to be done with the great maul. After it was already "in the ground" (animation was basically finished with the overhead) you could lol-spin and anyone in your spin radius was still able to be hit (and you gain a speed bonus).
This was a problem, and I'm glad they addressed it. You can still jump, lol-spin, and stab if I'm reading into this correctly...you just can't jump, thrust and then lol-spin.
I welcome the change. Helicoptering was silly. It does degrade many polearms to pure support weapons, that's true. I don't think there's much that can be done about that, though.
I especially like that it's now much easier to dodge maul overheads.
Just a note: that isn't a helicopter swing. That's a helicopter stab or overhead. Helicopter swings are side-swings, as you often see me do. If it doesn't look like a spinning blade of death, then it isn't a helicopter swing =D
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Well, did some piking with my longspear main after a long break, it really ain't as bad as people make it out to be. And it is pretty cool for overheads, ever funny dodging those now :)
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Berenger, stop lobbying for 2h nerfs all the time. :(
:3 You know i'm just doing it for your own good :)
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I like it.
More teamwork less game mechanic abuse.
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lol sucks to train for a game feature then have it removed.
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I use a stabbing 1h and this has basically killed it. please do something for 1h :cry: :cry:
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I use a stabbing 1h and this has basically killed it. please do something for 1h :cry: :cry:
Why? You can still spinstab 90° arcs, which should be enough, shouldn't it? I played with both 1h and 2dir spears today and although there were a few situations in which I died because I couldn't turn fast enough, I was mostly still doing fine. I think it depends a bit on the weapon, the ashwood pike was fine, but the long awlpike seems to be pretty useless now.
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Why? You can still spinstab 90° arcs, which should be enough, shouldn't it? I played with both 1h and 2dir spears today and although there were a few situations in which I died because I couldn't turn fast enough, I was mostly still doing fine. I think it depends a bit on the weapon, the ashwood pike was fine, but the long awlpike seems to be pretty useless now.
because lolstabbing the 1h was a safe way to get through because 1h thrust is kind of f up
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1handed stab nerfed along with all others, but 1handers, stop crying, we are still the most skilled players. 8-)
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Sure.
And George W. Bush is the leader of al Qaida.
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retarbjord
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God, the community wants realism, even though this game is specifically/purposely unrealistic. The old system we had worked fine. I imagine this all originated from some QQ thread about spinning "being op". It's going to get to the point where this mod dies because of too much realism being implemented. I for one don't approve of the newest implementations such as the reduction on turning speed and the doing away with polestagger, and I'm a 2h ffs.
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Since when did you start speaking for the whole community?
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because lolstabbing the 1h was a safe way to get through because 1h thrust is kind of f up
Yeah, and you can still do it. At least I can.
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Since when did you start speaking for the whole community?
I wasn't aware that i was, im one person, god knows there are people who disagree with me. I was just venting about the recent patches and what not.
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Definitely should keep this in for a week or two let people get settled with it, already the difference between when it first got changed and just a day after people are picking up on the change and adapting, won't be long till almost everybody has adjusted. Then we can really see what the change has affected, once a majority has experimented and adapted you can see where the change took you. & then we can text wall about how bad/good it is.
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This game is going downhill drastically with all the recent nerfs. I played a few rounds Monday afternoon, after a month-long hiatus, and couldn't believe how wonky melee had become as a two hand user.
Pretty soon we'll all be playing a game that has been dumbed down to the levels of world of warcraft.
My friend got me into this game because it took a lot of skill to play, but frankly I don't think that is the case anymore.
It seems like the developers are genuinely trying to pidgeonhole people into playing certain classes like cav, ranged, or sword and board.
Maybe it's a coordinated effort to remove interest in the game in time for the release mount and blade 2. :rolleyes:
:idea: Spinning didn't need to be nerfed for anything other than pike because of the drastic length. But, Instead of getting a minor tweak for an extremely specific problem for an individual weapon, the developers smashed a very minor niche problem with a sledgehammer and ended up creating far more glaring issues that need solving over entire general mechanic areas.
Now we're left with ground combat that feels wonky, lagged, and anything but fluid. Melee feels as rough and disjointed as the thought processes of a 90 year old woman with a severe case of Alzheimer's disease coupled with Dimensia. I now get the impression my weapon is being tugged on by an invisible spectre who is trying to sabotage me from hitting an enemy player.
Overhand swings are basically worthless now in a 1 on 1 confrontation due to the lack of speed, range, and nearly total lack of maneuverability. Stabs aren't far behind. The entire vertical spectrum of combat is now obsolete because of players who would much rather play an FPS version of diablo 3 rather than a mod derived from the Mount and Blade engine that rewards skill rather than overzealous, unreasonable whining from people that don't want to deal with any kind of learning curve whatsoever.
It's about 5 times harder to stab passing cavalry, who aren't barreling toward me head on, as I am now trying to stab a fast moving target with the game physic mechanics that I'm 100ft underwater and wearing a sweater made out of solid lead.
No spinning mechanics needed to be nerfed whatsoever for anything other than the pike due to how long it is. People need to stop screaming for nerfs just because they don't know how to block the easiest, most telegraphed, and expected attack in the entire game; the simple stab.
It seemed like dexterity was finally getting equal treatment to strength, but the disparity between the benefits of both has never been more blatant and obvious than it is now.
Dexterity is now obsolete as an attribute. It was drowned by the tears of a thousand strength crutchers who don't want to play a skill based game.
By the way, I have never played a Dex build. the closest I've ever come is pure balance, but there is no way in hell I would ever consider being even remotely balanced now.
The magic of this mod is quickly drying up. It is dying to appeal to a mass of casuals. If history of the gaming industry has shown us anything, this is how all great franchises ultimately die in spirit.
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Why? You can still spinstab 90° arcs, which should be enough, shouldn't it?
With my 1h I can't. 45-60 degrees at most.
I can't chamber lances and hit the the butt of the horse anymore. I can't chamber stabs and hit the guy anymore if he moves sideways. The turning is so slow. It is seriously not much faster than a person moving at close range, which is my effective range with a 1h overhead.
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Aside from a realism complaint, I honestly can't see why people have a hard time fighting lolstabbing pikemen. It is, quite literally, the most obviously telegraphed attack in the game. If you see a pikeman run around you, or jump, block down. How is it that people can react in 1/4 of a second or less during a normal melee fight, yet a spinning jump attack that takes at least half a second, if not a full second to complete and can only come from 1 attack direction is hard to block?
It's a slow, risky, one directional attack. Generally the only reasons I use it are A: The person I'm fighting is an idiot who can only spam and doesn't have a right mouse button. B: I don't have time to pull out my sidearm. or C: I need to keep my pike ready after I kill my current opponent, and trying to pick it back up would waste too much time.
Well... those, and it's just a fun attack to use. :wink:
Even discounting all of that, it's a combat style that only a tiny tiny number of players actually use (it's a damn pain in the ass to learn how to use correctly, I can't count how many times it got me 1 shotted trying to learn it). Not really any reason to totally change game mechanics because of an unrealistic play-style that a tiny number of people use.
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Aside from a realism complaint, I honestly can't see why people have a hard time fighting lolstabbing pikemen. It is, quite literally, the most obviously telegraphed attack in the game. If you see a pikeman run around you, or jump, block down. How is it that people can react in 1/4 of a second or less during a normal melee fight, yet a spinning jump attack that takes at least half a second, if not a full second to complete and can only come from 1 attack direction is hard to block?
It's a slow, risky, one directional attack. Generally the only reasons I use it are A: The person I'm fighting is an idiot who can only spam and doesn't have a right mouse button. B: I don't have time to pull out my sidearm. or C: I need to keep my pike ready after I kill my current opponent, and trying to pick it back up would waste too much time.
Well... those, and it's just a fun attack to use. :wink:
Even discounting all of that, it's a combat style that only a tiny tiny number of players actually use (it's a damn pain in the ass to learn how to use correctly, I can't count how many times it got me 1 shotted trying to learn it). Not really any reason to totally change game mechanics because of an unrealistic play-style that a tiny number of people use.
Almost counter-intuitively, most players underestimate it because they assume that the turning nerf got rid of lolstabbing pikes. While this is true to some extent, it can still be done with any thrust weapon. You simply have to jump backwards, spin, and then start the attack when you're reoriented correctly. The attack itself is still fairly quick, and like I said most people underestimate/aren't expecting it.