cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Realism Discussion => Topic started by: Banok on June 08, 2012, 08:34:43 pm

Title: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Banok on June 08, 2012, 08:34:43 pm
Does anyone else remember countless arguments about the katana's stab being so stupidly weak that it should really be removed?

cause I remember most the counter arguments being along the lines of: "its a curved weapon not designed for thrusting" (even tho it has a very pointy end). well enter the fauchard, possibly the most curved weapon you can stab with...

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anyway i'm still bitter about the fucking stupidity of katana stats, even tho I decided to stop using then like 2 years ago. if it is a balance issue remove the stab entirely or reduce speed but 16p stab a joke.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: wanteds on June 08, 2012, 08:37:21 pm
nerf archers!
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Banok on June 08, 2012, 08:46:56 pm
deligated to this new "realism discussion" fml

its just as much balance disscussion and also disscussion of past disscussion.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Penitent on June 08, 2012, 08:51:07 pm
Stab should be higher.

THis does not need to be in realism discussion, but the way you framed the proposal (realism, based on weapon appearance) it got moved there.

If you post again and frame it from a balance standpoint, it might stay in suggestions section.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Banok on June 08, 2012, 08:55:33 pm
true I just wasn't expecting to get insta moved.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: dreadnok on June 08, 2012, 10:08:57 pm
katanas break with stab. its pretty simple. they were made for deep slicing. there thin brittle blades.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Penitent on June 08, 2012, 10:17:43 pm
katanas break with stab. its pretty simple. they were made for deep slicing. there thin brittle blades.

They are not too brittle, actually, nor thin.  The outside and edge of a katana are made from hard, brittle metal so it can be very sharp.  The core, however, is a softer more flexible temper to allowing it to bend without breaking.

Here's examples of different ways to Katanas are made like this:
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The clipped, one-sided point ensures it is not as good as a thruster as a longsword, for example....but it can still thrust effectively.  The truth is, if Katanas broke when thrusted into a person, the swordsmiths would have made them without points! :)

Sorry, I like history. :)
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: martyrAD on June 08, 2012, 10:34:14 pm
katanss slicing weapons? how many crappy movies have you watched? later on yes.... but they thrusted them into the weak spots of armor just like western swords..
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on June 08, 2012, 11:16:45 pm
We don't balance games based on realism. I kind of enjoy where the katana is at the moment. Stab is a quick interrupt attack, but does not really dish any damage, while swings are the real deal damage-wise.

Katana stab is a wooden longsword stab basically, which seems silly if you look at it from a realism standpoint.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Penitent on June 08, 2012, 11:22:24 pm
I wish the game was balanced around play-balance AND realism. 
I mean, it is, to an extent.  That's why a great maul does more damage than a short sword.  But any changes since the game was originally written are based on play-balance only.

But, hey, maybe I can make my own game some day. :)
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Shrugging Khan on June 08, 2012, 11:38:06 pm
Realism tends to balance itself. Anyone who claims that game balance and realism are mutually exclusive is an idiot.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Penitent on June 08, 2012, 11:43:01 pm
Realism tends to balance itself. Anyone who claims that game balance and realism are mutually exclusive is an idiot.

That is a philosophical point that would make an interesting thread of itself.  I agree with you, to a point.

Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on June 09, 2012, 12:03:50 am
Yes. Realistically armies strived to achieve balance so as to not outdo the enemy army too much and embarass them. Just like the mongols and romans.

But yes, interesting thread topic. Might even be the first serious thread in the realism section
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Adamar on June 09, 2012, 02:15:58 pm
Just remove the damn thing and there'll be no issue.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Banok on June 09, 2012, 03:26:46 pm
Realism tends to balance itself. Anyone who claims that game balance and realism are mutually exclusive is an idiot.

this is starting to be my philosophy, after playing stuff like project reality mod.

it really is true to an extent but there are always limiting factors in computer games.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Memento_Mori on June 09, 2012, 03:38:57 pm
Please don't get rid of katana stab !

At one point I was glad to see the pole arm stab on nodachi gone, but now I misses it.

The low stab damage (near suicide to attempt) on the katana (and once on the nodachi) make it unique.

It also makes it so you can't just left click furiously or you may end up stabbing when you don't want to which is a good way to glance and die, and I like this. :)

anyway that's my weeabo 2 cents.

.. derp didn't notice this in realism discussion now I feel kinda silly oh well.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Ujio on June 09, 2012, 06:55:11 pm
No one takes the Realism discussion board seriously, you should get this posted in Game balance discussion
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Teeth on June 10, 2012, 12:19:00 am
They should've buffed the stab to like 18p-20p instead of buffing the cut damage. The katana is quite strong now, but the stab damage still makes no sense compared to the stab damage of other items.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: zagibu on June 10, 2012, 02:27:43 am
Yeah, I'm with Teeth here, although I don't like the Katana at all, 16p is really a bad joke. I think 19 would be okay.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Leshma on June 11, 2012, 02:26:49 am
I dun liek my old friendtana.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Son Of Odin on June 11, 2012, 03:41:34 am
Easiest thing would be to just remove that sheit. Then we wouldn't have to argue about the damn thing :mrgreen:
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Shrugging Khan on June 12, 2012, 12:03:01 am
it really is true to an extent but there are always limiting factors in computer games.
True; but it's usually better to introduce the necessary mechanics (even if they're just barely functional placeholders), or, if coding new mechanics is not possible, to balance items via the more abstract stats (in M&B's case, those are Difficulty, Price, Slots, Sheathable, Knockdown and Breakthrough (the latter two because they are probability-based)) rather than the ones that will actually *feel* wrong (like damage, speed, length or weight).

In the case of fauchard VS Katana, there is no excuse. The fauchard would deal more cutting or blunt damage (depending on whether the outer edge is sharpened) than that tiny spike would ever deal piercing. IMHO, the fauchard should have its thrust attack severly downgraded along with its price (since, IIRC, historic fauchards were repurposed farming tools -> economical).
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Ujio on June 12, 2012, 09:01:26 pm
I think a good way to look at it, is in comparison to the Bastard sword. Both swords aren't so different in terms of weight and length.

So if we were to give the Katana the same stats as the Bastard sword (35 cut, 21 pierce)
And then apply rule such as, the "Katana is a curved weapon, so it should have +2 cut" 37 cut
And the "Bastard sword is a straight weapon, so it should have + 2 pierce" 21 pierce

Then the Katana would have 37 cut 19 pierce
Bastard sword 35 cut 21 pierce

But right now it's +5 pierce to the Bastard sword.

I think 19 pierce for the Katana would be about right
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Penitent on June 12, 2012, 09:10:27 pm
I think a good way to look at it, is in comparison to the Bastard sword. Both swords aren't so different in terms of weight and length.

So if we were to give the Katana the same stats as the Bastard sword (35 cut, 21 pierce)
And then apply rule such as, the "Katana is a curved weapon, so it should have +2 cut" 37 cut
And the "Bastard sword is a straight weapon, so it should have + 2 pierce" 21 pierce

Then the Katana would have 37 cut 19 pierce
Bastard sword 35 cut 21 pierce

But right now it's +5 pierce to the Bastard sword.

I think 19 pierce for the Katana would be about right

This is a fair way of looking at it.  However, you should consider that cut damage is more useful than pierce (on a sword).  You will cut twice or three times as often as you will thrust.  The cut damage will be applied more often than the thrust...so it is more potent for this reason.

Take in to consideration two top-tier 1h weapons.  The KAS and the NCS.  The KAS has 31 cut, 24 pierce.  NCS is 32 cut 21 pierce.  The KAS has 1 less cut, but 3 more pierce.  These weapons have the same length and speed, are considered balanced, cost the same amount, and it can be argued all night and day which one is better...because they are the same.

I'm trying to say +1 cut is worth +2 or +3 pierce on swords, because cut is used more often so you get the benefit of that stat more often.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Rumblood on June 12, 2012, 10:33:13 pm
When the pierce damage is so low as to cause a much greater chance of glancing then it isn't a fair trade.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Zisa on June 13, 2012, 12:25:35 am
I prefer the old weaker cut faster katana.
And the old weaker but thrustable nodachi, which is now for lazy fucks who don't want to use a cleaver.

Actually wouldn't mind a ninja sword :P
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Ujio on June 13, 2012, 05:32:46 pm
This is a fair way of looking at it.  However, you should consider that cut damage is more useful than pierce (on a sword).  You will cut twice or three times as often as you will thrust.  The cut damage will be applied more often than the thrust...so it is more potent for this reason.

Take in to consideration two top-tier 1h weapons.  The KAS and the NCS.  The KAS has 31 cut, 24 pierce.  NCS is 32 cut 21 pierce.  The KAS has 1 less cut, but 3 more pierce.  These weapons have the same length and speed, are considered balanced, cost the same amount, and it can be argued all night and day which one is better...because they are the same.

I'm trying to say +1 cut is worth +2 or +3 pierce on swords, because cut is used more often so you get the benefit of that stat more often.

But doesn't Pierce do more damage vs armor?

Also Rumblewood makes a good point about the glancing
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Shrugging Khan on June 13, 2012, 11:22:14 pm
So piercing buffs are worth more the lower the initial piercing stat is. I'm fairly sure the devs have a formula to handle these things.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Thomek on June 15, 2012, 09:17:38 pm
Aye :)

19 pierce, thank you! wouldn't really make it OP. Just increase the price.. It's an exotic weapon after all.

Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Ujio on June 18, 2012, 01:19:54 am
Not this "exotic weapon" nonsense again, it's a crap argument, to coverup a bias towards certain gear.

Lets stop kidding ourselves on. C-rpg is a blatantly multicultural mod, a far cry from a pure European era mod.
There's plenty of gear from other cultures, not of European origin, and they don't receive these penalties, So why should Japanese gear be any different?

How about just treating it like any other equipment in the mod, Instead of this prejudice towards Far-eastern equipment. Would be nice to have some equality in C-rpg
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Ronin on June 18, 2012, 03:33:38 pm
Realism tends to balance itself. Anyone who claims that game balance and realism are mutually exclusive is an idiot.

Good point of view, but sadly not true. There are so many factors that affect the battle in reality. Such as but not limited to: Strategy (marching armies, logistics, map related plans, mass fear factor), tactics (organisation and cooperation in battle), money (wages, repairs - this one is very important), morale (fear, bravery), stamina, conditions (weather), equipment (weapons, armor, horses), height adventage, fighter skills, luck, generals (influentive-wise and tactical-wise), artillery... I mean so much. We only have a very few of them in Mount and Blade, but even so there no one can claim there was a balance amongst kingdoms in history. Every invention and development the armies made, is done for getting the upper hand so it happened.

In short: Make katana stab 19p, the current one has it's uses but it's ridiculous.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Thomek on June 18, 2012, 06:38:44 pm
Not this "exotic weapon" nonsense again, it's a crap argument, to coverup a bias towards certain gear.
Lets stop kidding ourselves on. C-rpg is a blatantly multicultural mod, a far cry from a pure European era mod.
There's plenty of gear from other cultures, not of European origin, and they don't receive these penalties, So why should Japanese gear be any different?
How about just treating it like any other equipment in the mod,Instead of this prejudice towards Far-eastern equipment. Would be nice to have some equality in C-rpg

I feel your cry, but such is the consensus among the devs/balancers that the katana is where it should be. In their formulas it pays a weaboo tax for it's price and performance. Believe me, I've personally been through all katana nerfs and buffs, and I've been the no1 defender of it through 2 years.

It's not a top tier weapon in overall performance, and that's a fact we simply must accept. It often punishes players for making mistakes (stabbing) and cost more than likewise performing weapons. Devs also don't want it to become too popular because it looks bad/unhistorical with most armors..

ALL arguments have been said, and EVERY stone has been turned regarding the katana. Believe me :)

I will write a suggestion soon though, about adding 1h mode without shield for it and some other shorter swords. Would be a nice little trick used to confuse opponents. Also historically it was a weapon which was totally wieldable in 1h.  Also, the thrust would look awesome.. :)
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on June 18, 2012, 06:59:38 pm

I will write a suggestion soon though, about adding 1h mode without shield for it and some other shorter swords. Would be a nice little trick used to confuse opponents. Also historically it was a weapon which was totally wieldable in 1h.  Also, the thrust would look awesome.. :)

Wieldable, but never really wielded in one hand because you never had a reason to wield it in one hand. Except on horse.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Thomek on June 18, 2012, 07:50:04 pm
Wieldable, but never really wielded in one hand because you never had a reason to wield it in one hand. Except on horse.

Maybe for that extra 10cm range? :) Or as a surprise.

I wouldn't think there were strict rules about this..
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: zagibu on June 18, 2012, 11:16:02 pm
Or for DUAL WIELD.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Banok on June 20, 2012, 01:28:38 am
ok I was pissed about katana being 16 pierce... then I find out the +3 katana is 17!! pierce. when every other weapon gets +3 thrust damage. What a fucking joke, sold mine as soon as I could.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Matey on June 26, 2012, 12:03:10 am
easy solution.

taking into account the different methods for making katanas and different metal usage in different parts of the blade... we clearly need to have the current katana as the "cheapo katana" and remains the same, but then we could add in a few more katanas of drastically increased price that offer better stats because they are made by legendary sword smiths like chadzamasa. then the weeabos can have katanas with some different specialities, one could be a decent thruster at the cost of some cut, or one could cost like 10x more than any other wep in the game but have the current cut (or maybe 1 higher) and also a decent thrust and maybe +1 speed (but people would go broke using it)

oh oh! we should also add some wooden katanas, or just blunted ones for blunt damage.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Gurnisson on June 26, 2012, 12:28:11 am
when every other weapon gets +3 thrust damage.

Mostly +2 pierce. You get +3 on the damage which is highest, +2 on the lowest. In other words +3 pierce and +2 cut for espada, +3 pierce and +3 cut for LEE and +3 cut +2 pierce for bastard sword. The katana loses out on 1 thrust damage for some reason, but not 2.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: zagibu on June 26, 2012, 12:33:01 am
There is a common misconception about the legendary figure of Thor. His hammer was not a weapon, it was only used to forge his katana. It was also the katana that always came back when thrown.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Ujio on June 26, 2012, 10:37:56 pm
ok I was pissed about katana being 16 pierce... then I find out the +3 katana is 17!! pierce. when every other weapon gets +3 thrust damage. What a fucking joke, sold mine as soon as I could.

Yeah, exactly! This clarifies the bias in a nutshell
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Ptolemy on July 07, 2012, 09:05:50 am
Everyone who actually looks at the katana's stats knows that it's not balanced, especially when it comes to it's MW bonuses. Anyone who doesn't see this is either a complete idiot or a "weaboo" calling racist.

We're just going to have to accept that the katana is the Jew of cRPG and that will never change.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Zerran on July 07, 2012, 09:34:15 am
Realism tends to balance itself. Anyone who claims that game balance and realism are mutually exclusive is an idiot.

This is true to an extent, particularly if the entire mod were based around realism. However, the fact that we have weapons and arms spanning hundreds of years and from across the globe totally throws this out the window.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Paul on July 07, 2012, 09:55:46 am
We are thinking about completely replacing Japanese crap with Chinese stuff so we are not really biased against Far East in general.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Muki on July 07, 2012, 10:08:54 am
We are thinking about completely replacing Japanese crap with Chinese stuff so we are not really biased against Far East in general.

O.o that could work
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Uumdi on July 07, 2012, 10:50:26 am
Speaking of nerfed thrusts, game balance, and realism, no more spin-stabs god get owned pikes
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Bobthehero on July 07, 2012, 11:48:47 am
We are thinking about completely replacing Japanese crap with Chinese stuff so we are not really biased against Far East in general.

Although I don't have much faith in that...

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Leshma on July 07, 2012, 12:14:28 pm
Katana is unbalanced, it has 40 cut on swings (MW) and hurts like hell. Although they have similar swing damage values, I find Katana too be a lot more damaging than Longsword in most situations, probably because of its speed.

Also, this is probably one of the rare multiplayer mods for Warband which has weeaboo gear, means that every weeaboo my old friend comes to cRPG. More than 50% new players wear samurai armor and use katana/nodachi. Later, when they learn a thing or two they change their gear but at the very start, soon as they gain enough STR they pick weeaboo items.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Christo on July 07, 2012, 12:44:02 pm
We are thinking about completely replacing Japanese crap with Chinese stuff so we are not really biased against Far East in general.

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Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: _Tak_ on July 07, 2012, 12:47:05 pm
We are thinking about completely replacing Japanese crap with Chinese stuff so we are not really biased against Far East in general.

No Urist this is a very bad idea, leave the weaboo as it is
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Leshma on July 07, 2012, 12:50:00 pm
chadz is making the call. If not for chadz, shik would probably remove samurai gear til now.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Fuma Kotaro on July 07, 2012, 01:50:40 pm
stop the weaboo hate retards
longsword is fine it has at least a fuckn good thrust the katana has a bullshit one and it s also very short it isnt that easy to play with tell me which players are good with it?
and paul suck the katana just add new items dont replace other items ffs
you retarted kuyak wearer complain bout everything stop the hate in that game !!!!!
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Leshma on July 07, 2012, 03:49:34 pm
stop the weaboo hate retards
longsword is fine it has at least a fuckn good thrust the katana has a bullshit one and it s also very short it isnt that easy to play with tell me which players are good with it?
and paul suck the katana just add new items dont replace other items ffs
you retarted kuyak wearer complain bout everything stop the hate in that game !!!!!

Momo stole your account? :shock:

I've never had kuyak in my inventory (on my main). Rus Scale, Ragged Outfit, Pilgrim Disguise, Heraldic Transitional and now mostly Heraldic with Tabard. Used a Warmask with Rus Scale and Heraldic Transitional but I've sold that piece of garbage. I'm actually ashamed because I had it for so long.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Fuma Kotaro on July 07, 2012, 03:50:56 pm
then still stop the hate ^^
Momo? You mean that guy that stopped playing crpg when the repair costs came?
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Leshma on July 07, 2012, 03:57:47 pm
Nope. That guy who rages a lot and -1 everyone's posts.

And I can't stop hating on weeaboos (not just players but everyone with a yellow fever and who thinks he's asian although he's not), in a same way I can't stop hating on other braindead people like Apple fanboys, hipsters, emos, goths...

I like normal and smart people. Those who suck at being normal usually pick some of above mentioned "lifestyles" because they think they'll suck less that way.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Fuma Kotaro on July 07, 2012, 04:02:44 pm
Well there are guys like the Ninjas or RL that are roleplaying and they would lose the most when some1 like -.-paul-.- will nerf the items
i think i would rq if so
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Fuma Kotaro on July 07, 2012, 04:11:21 pm
Here all stats of the 4 1/2 handers from the 2handers about that we discuss the most:

Bastard Sword
Type:Two handed weapon
Requirement:9 strength
Weight:1.8
Slots:2
Upkeep:280 gold
Shop price:4,012 gold
Value:2,006 gold
Speed:99
Length:101
Thrust:21 pierce
Swing:35 cut
Secondary mode

Fuckn cheap with less repairs and at mw 38 cut isnt bad and still 100 speed and 101 length isnt bad and the thrust 2

Heavy Bastard Sword
Type:Two handed weapon
Requirement:10 strength
Weight:2
Slots:2
Upkeep:383 gold
Shop price:5,480 gold
Value:2,740 gold
Speed:98
Length:105
Thrust:23 pierce
Swing:36 cut
Secondary mode

It does even more damage than the bastard sword with just a slight more upkeep  and is nearly as fast as the bs and longer

Longsword
Type:Two handed weapon
Requirement:10 strength
Weight:1.8
Slots:2
Upkeep:466 gold
Shop price:6,660 gold
Value:3,330 gold
Speed:98
Length:106
Thrust:23 pierce
Swing:36 cut
Secondary mode

Only advantage above the hbs is the +1 reach but more upkeep it s your fault if you prefer a longsword over a hbs

Katana
Type:Two handed weapon
Requirement:9 strength
Weight:1.2
Slots:2
Upkeep:656 gold
Shop price:9,376 gold
Value:4,688 gold
Speed:101
Length:95
Thrust:16 pierce
Swing:37 cut

It is the fastest one and the one that does the most damage but it is also the shortest one the most expensive one and the thrust is so useless

                       








So all of those weapons are its price worth maybe you can make the longsword cheaper but the rest should stay how it is
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Leshma on July 07, 2012, 04:12:57 pm
That's what I don't understand.

I've roleplayed knight, ninja, bandit, samurai, assassin and now I'm knight again.

I would die of boredom if I was a ninja for two years like Thomek and Khorin.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Fuma Kotaro on July 07, 2012, 04:14:44 pm
That's what I don't understand.

I've roleplayed knight, ninja, bandit, samurai, assassin and now I'm knight again.

I would die of boredom if I was a ninja for two years like Thomek and Khorin.

They chose it because they like it also khorin has many alts that are str based and with a knightly outfit or a shielder and and and and
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Leshma on July 07, 2012, 04:16:40 pm
Khorin has many alts but almost every single one is some kind of japanese fighter or archer.

Btw. normal stab on Katana was a bit OP. Katana had good stab when I was roleplaying ninja and I abused that a lot.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Fuma Kotaro on July 07, 2012, 04:17:42 pm
Also have a look on the market
Most wanted:
Longsword
Heavy Bastardsword
Katana
Bastarsword

Khorin has many alts but almost every single one is some kind of japanese fighter or archer.

Btw. normal stab on Katana was a bit OP. Katana had good stab when was roleplaying ninja and I abused that a lot.

ye true

i just wanted to say with that list that those weapons are perfectly balanced currently
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Momo on July 07, 2012, 04:18:28 pm
Momo stole your account? :shock:

I've never had kuyak in my inventory (on my main). Rus Scale, Ragged Outfit, Pilgrim Disguise, Heraldic Transitional and now mostly Heraldic with Tabard. Used a Warmask with Rus Scale and Heraldic Transitional but I've sold that piece of garbage. I'm actually ashamed because I had it for so long.

I never stole accounts. How dare you accuse me with something like that.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Momo on July 07, 2012, 04:21:01 pm
then still stop the hate ^^
Momo? You mean that guy that stopped playing crpg when the repair costs came?

That wasn't me. It was The_FINN (something like that) I believe.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Momo on July 07, 2012, 04:22:10 pm
Nope. That guy who rages a lot and -1 everyone's posts.

And I can't stop hating on weeaboos (not just players but everyone with a yellow fever and who thinks he's asian although he's not), in a same way I can't stop hating on other braindead people like Apple fanboys, hipsters, emos, goths...

I like normal and smart people. Those who suck at being normal usually pick some of above mentioned "lifestyles" because they think they'll suck less that way.

Not everyone's. Yes, I rage a lot, does it hurt you?
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Fuma Kotaro on July 07, 2012, 04:23:29 pm
nono his name was shogunate momo and he ran around with a vaegir war mask khergit elite armor balanced katana long spear (pike at this time) and a crossbow with steel bolts :D he was fast as hell
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Momo on July 07, 2012, 05:00:18 pm
nono his name was shogunate momo and he ran around with a vaegir war mask khergit elite armor balanced katana long spear (pike at this time) and a crossbow with steel bolts :D he was fast as hell

That was me.  :twisted: Good old 106 katana speed with 24 agi times. (and with 27 str XD)
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Fuma Kotaro on July 07, 2012, 06:28:04 pm
haha :D you fuckn op
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Ujio on July 09, 2012, 07:04:17 pm
Momo? You mean that guy that stopped playing crpg when the repair costs came?

Nope. That guy who rages a lot and -1 everyone's posts.

Isn't that Miwiw99?
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Leshma on July 09, 2012, 07:06:55 pm
No.

Miwiw is kewl.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Jarlek on July 10, 2012, 01:12:10 am
Let's play a a game called "guess which does the most cut damage without looking the stats up!"

Round 1.

Katana vs Halberd
(click to show/hide)
vs
(click to show/hide)

Post your guesses!
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Christo on July 10, 2012, 02:03:53 am
Halberd is a hunk of junk. I'd say the Katana.

Okay, I just looked at it after.. WHAT?
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Fuma Kotaro on July 10, 2012, 12:33:43 pm
the katana is better therefor you can handle it better so you can reach a higher amount of speed so you deliver more damage
and since we are in the realism corner i also can say that the overhead of the swiss completly senseless is it was a weapon made for thrusting
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Jarlek on July 10, 2012, 05:15:33 pm
Halberd is a hunk of junk. I'd say the Katana.

Okay, I just looked at it after.. WHAT?
:P

the katana is better therefor you can handle it better so you can reach a higher amount of speed so you deliver more damage
and since we are in the realism corner i also can say that the overhead of the swiss completly senseless is it was a weapon made for thrusting
You're right. I should take this to balance section, because having this shit is just bananas xD
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Fuma Kotaro on July 10, 2012, 05:41:38 pm
:P
You're right. I should take this to balance section, because having this shit is just bananas xD

you cant compare those weapons  in this case you have to compare the katana  with the other 1/2 swords and they are all balanced
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Spa_geh_tea on July 10, 2012, 06:41:56 pm
Well since theire isn't a chop damage. Which is a combo of splitting and.blunt damage....we generalize with cut.

Maybe devs should consider adding chop....it would completly rebalqnce weapons vrs armor. Making cut weapons nearly useless against armor. And chop effectivish against armor, more or less as it is now. How'd ya katana folks like to keep that cut tag, since it was designed to cut not chop.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Ujio on July 10, 2012, 07:54:34 pm
Let's play a a game called "guess which does the most cut damage without looking the stats up!"

Round 1.

Katana vs Halberd
(click to show/hide)
vs
(click to show/hide)

Post your guesses!

I'll tell you one thing. The Halberd has a Thrust of 28 Pierce, to the Katana Thrust of 16 Pierce, and is 1205 Gold cheaper.

9376 Gold = Katana
8171 Gold = Halberd

Won't comment on the Cut as I've already looked, that would be cheating :P
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Leshma on July 10, 2012, 08:50:39 pm
Do you know that Swiss Halberd is two directional weapon and a polearm?
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Jarlek on July 10, 2012, 10:05:06 pm
I'll tell you one thing. The Halberd has a Thrust of 28 Pierce, to the Katana Thrust of 16 Pierce, and is 1205 Gold cheaper.

9376 Gold = Katana
8171 Gold = Halberd

Won't comment on the Cut as I've already looked, that would be cheating :P
I think the 101 speed more than makes up for the higher stab damage, no?

Although my main point was to point out how ridiculous the cut damage is. A big ass monster axe does the same damage as a medium sized sword and less than a greatsword? Lolwut?

Also:
Do you know that Swiss Halberd is two directional weapon and a polearm?
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Emotion on July 10, 2012, 10:10:54 pm
The katana is OP as it is.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Fuma Kotaro on July 11, 2012, 12:34:03 am
If the katana is op why dont you use it you fools
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Emotion on July 11, 2012, 12:35:22 am
If the katana is op why dont you use it you fools

Personally not a fan of Asian culture.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Leshma on July 11, 2012, 01:28:10 am
If the katana is op why dont you use it you fools

Two reasons:
1) bigest downside of Katana is its lenght, most people don't like taking risks so choose longer and seemingly slower weapons
2) most people are into euro knights and Katana doesn't fits there, it's purty but not everyone's cup of tea
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Gurnisson on July 11, 2012, 01:31:34 am
The katana is a really good weapon. Really good.

However, that it only gets 1 more thrust damage at +3 is a joke
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Fuma Kotaro on July 11, 2012, 01:47:44 am
@Leshma
1. There we have a weakpoint you have to be able to block for getting in range of the enemy
2. Well take a HBS a bit slower a hell cheaper very good thrust nearly the same swing as the katana and long
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Ujio on July 17, 2012, 07:41:06 pm
I think the 101 speed more than makes up for the higher stab damage, no?

Although my main point was to point out how ridiculous the cut damage is. A big ass monster axe does the same damage as a medium sized sword and less than a greatsword? Lolwut?

Also:

Yeah, but that isn't just the Katana, that's all 2 handed swords. For example the Sword of War has 40 Cut. Surely a weapon of Weight 3.2 and Length 162, should do more Cut damage than a weapon with Weight 3 and Length 121.

In general I'd say a halberd/Glaive/Cutting polearm should do more damage than a sword, but this just doesn't seem to be the case in C-rpg.

And in regards to the speed, I've said this before, I'd happily trade in the speed for some decent Thrust damage. I'd much prefer the Katana to be thought of as a Viable weapon, than a cheap spammy one
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Jarlek on July 17, 2012, 07:54:27 pm
Yeah, but that isn't just the Katana, that's all 2 handed swords. For example the Sword of War has 40 Cut. Surely a weapon of Weight 3.2 and Length 162, should do more Cut damage than a weapon with Weight 3 and Length 121.

In general I'd say a halberd/Glaive/Cutting polearm should do more damage than a sword, but this just doesn't seem to be the case in C-rpg.
Totally agree with you. Having a big axe at the end of a huge pole do so little damage is retarded. Make it slower or whatever (although the overhead is already pretty slow...), but gief moar damage, naow!
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: zagibu on July 19, 2012, 12:46:56 am
Yeah, but that isn't just the Katana, that's all 2 handed swords. For example the Sword of War has 40 Cut. Surely a weapon of Weight 3.2 and Length 162, should do more Cut damage than a weapon with Weight 3 and Length 121.

In general I'd say a halberd/Glaive/Cutting polearm should do more damage than a sword, but this just doesn't seem to be the case in C-rpg.

And in regards to the speed, I've said this before, I'd happily trade in the speed for some decent Thrust damage. I'd much prefer the Katana to be thought of as a Viable weapon, than a cheap spammy one

They would do much more damage, yes, but only on the axe-head, not on the wooden pole. Think of the current situation as the average damage a polearm does calculated over its full length.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Ujio on July 24, 2012, 08:18:34 pm
I see, didn't know that. Is there any way they would be able to make it, so that hitting with the blade of the Polearm would do Cut damage, but hitting with the staff of the Polearm would do Blunt damage?
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Peasant_Woman on July 25, 2012, 02:51:09 am
I see, didn't know that. Is there any way they would be able to make it, so that hitting with the blade of the Polearm would do Cut damage, but hitting with the staff of the Polearm would do Blunt damage?

Youtube of cmp doing exactly what you describe. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZIWhK8VXUo&list=UUs7qCZv223nQYdwtmwaVmQg&index=1&feature=plcp)

It'll get added to cRPG eventually, maybe in the next version if we're lucky.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: zagibu on July 25, 2012, 08:28:30 am
Those videos are weird.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Ujio on July 26, 2012, 05:30:17 pm
Nice, hopefully soon
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Thomek on July 27, 2012, 01:03:56 am
This sword deserves its own sub-section.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Ujio on July 27, 2012, 10:49:26 pm
No wonder
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Fuma Kotaro on July 27, 2012, 11:24:46 pm
No wonder

Yep because everyone is to stupid to fight against it makes an op sword threat and cries that their greatswords are up
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Ujio on July 27, 2012, 11:46:08 pm
Yep because everyone is to stupid to fight against it makes an op sword threat and cries that their greatswords are up

Well that, and the 16 Pierce Thrust, and only +1 Thrust on loom
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Bonze on July 29, 2012, 04:32:58 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=5Hy_A9vjp_s&NR=1

Watch at 5:40 ...

Katana is a hollywood buffed sword same with bows ..in reallity , the europan steel!!  conquered the world since ~ 1495  ,in the first period , (renaissance age!)  ...not the overrated  bows and not the katana scrap --




Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: zagibu on July 30, 2012, 10:07:24 pm
We all know the Katana was not the mythical supersword it's currently depicted as in mainstream media, yet having less pierce damage than the light spiked club (1h) is a bit of a joke. I never owned a Katana and don't plan on ever owning one, but 16 pierce damage is simply imbalanced. There is no way around this fact.

Now, the question is, whether this imbalance should be adressed or not. Does really everything have to be balanced?
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on July 30, 2012, 10:40:19 pm
To be honest. I think the 16p on Katana is fine. I prefer having different weapons, where every weapon has its niche than having everything on completely realistic basis. Katana's stab is good for interrupting attacks and confusing the enemy. I would not like to see it as a viable source of damage, mainly because it would make katana closer to longsword and bastard. Which is dull. I kind of like where the Katana is at the moment.

I want varying weapons. And not all weapons need to be 100% balanced because with varying weapons that is almost impossible.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Ragnar on August 01, 2012, 12:49:51 am
so many cunts going on about this dont seem to realize, if you really want realism, CUT DMG DOES NOTHING TO PLATE OR PLATE COMBO ARMORS, grab a real Nodachi and see what it does if you try to slash fucking chain mail, then kill yourself if you thought there would be a different result from what happened   :rolleyes:                      / thread


modified:

P.S.
Great swords were OP in real life melee 1v1 if you had the skill for them, (in reference to a post above)
look up "Double Zwerch" on YouTube and tell me a katana wielder could stand up to that lol
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Thomek on August 01, 2012, 02:17:23 am
its true cut damage do nothing to chain mail or plate.

Nearly no sword type weapons of the medieval age did any damage to those armors. Experienced through a good armor, 90% of the weapons we have in cRPG would get reduced to something heavy hitting your armor with different speeds and momentum..

Whatever energy got passed through to the wearer became blunt trauma. Plate just spread the shock over a bigger area. To actually kill someone like this would need a sharp thing like an awlpike for mail, or a long dagger through gaps in the armor. Or something very big and heavy like a hammer or huge axe to the head.. It all got translated to blunt damage through plate, mail and padding.

For all the swords, the only thing that would matter is how much energy you could project to the point of impact.

To me, except the range of it, the katana seems a sensible weapon. It's thick and solid enough to not bend when thrust through light armor or light mail, while the curve gives it a smaller cutting point than a straight weapon. It pays for these attributes in it's range, which is short.

In europe, take a classic longsword, they tried to increase range without adding more weight. They achieved this by adding groves to the blades, scraping off weight they could put at the tip instead. The swords payed for this in being less stiff and more bendable. Works excellent for duelling, peasants and portrait paintings, against armor not so much. For armor they developed shorter, stronger, blunter, more clubby weapons instead. (hammers, picks, flails, awlpikes and stuff like the goedendag)

TBH, using common sense I think the katana is closer to an anti-armor weapon than a longsword. Not by any means a weapon suitable for anti armor, but better than a long, thin, bendy blade.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Ragnar on August 01, 2012, 02:41:20 am
calling Katana an anti armor wep over European swords is troll level retarted,
a Nodachi or Katana cant even pierce proper chain mail with a full strength thrust, not to mention that you went on and on about "momentum" and "impact energy" and you ignore the fact that with a weapon that weighs nothing you transfer exactly that in terms of raw impact pressure


TLDR  HUUUR DDUUUR BUurd bbrbrbr
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Thomek on August 01, 2012, 03:48:28 am
You are wrong, of course. The impact energy has as much to do with speed as it has to do with weight.

If you get hit by a bowlingball travelling 10km/h or a ping pong ball travelling 1000km/h, doesn't matter if the energy that hits you is the same. (to take an extreme example) That is if you don't just jump out of the path of the bowlingball.

Look here how the longsword ended up against armor:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: zagibu on August 01, 2012, 04:44:59 am
Yeah, you can use the hand guard as a hammer head. A tsuba on the other hand won't work so well in this regard.

Also, you can't simply use the basic momentum formula. There is a max velocity a weapon can reach in the hands of a man does not linearly scale. There is an optimal weight, to gain the maximum momentum, and going both lighter and heavier will decrease the momentum you can attain.

Last but not least there is impact deformation which must be looked at. A pingpong ball won't do the same damage as a bowling ball, even if it has the same momentum.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Ragnar on August 01, 2012, 05:02:05 am
ok so its trolling
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Son Of Odin on August 01, 2012, 06:31:24 am
P.S.
Great swords were OP in real life melee 1v1 if you had the skill for them, (in reference to a post above)
look up "Double Zwerch" on YouTube and tell me a katana wielder could stand up to that lol

I wan't to see somebody doing as impressive stuff as this with katana (and don't link me a youtube video where someone swings air or chops carpet rolls.) Somewhere around 0:50 that dude hits hard :D
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Paul on August 02, 2012, 08:28:13 am
Of course Thomek is making shit up on the fly and is totally wrong. The katana relies on the drawn cut which is horribly ineffective against metal armor but good against cloth armor or just peasants. While the European Longsword is a very versatile weapon that with halfswording is also good against an armored opponent(makeshift polearm). It also isn't fixed on the drawn cut like the katana and its hewn cut is probably better against an enemy in maille than the banana isle peasant cutter.

I have my hopes in cmp and WSE that we can truly rap€ the light curved blade weapons like katana and scimitars in terms of holding up against metal armor. I'd give 'em a very good performance against cloth, leather and nakeds but against metal the drawn cut just doesn't cut it.

Quote from: Thomek
You are wrong, of course. The impact energy has as much to do with speed as it has to do with weight.
Go back to school.

Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Bobthehero on August 02, 2012, 08:33:18 am
But then you'd break all gaming style, because of plate armor, and I couldn't do my swashbucklin' schtick anymore :(
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on August 02, 2012, 08:57:11 am
But then you'd break all gaming style, because of plate armor, and I couldn't do my swashbucklin' schtick anymore :(

You could they would just need to make the side sword the weapon it really is.

Sure I've got 78 head Armour with that +3 Wiemar and +3 gpb on but the front is still full to bursting with vision slits so you just need to get a good poke in :D

Swords are rat balls against plate armour, the only way to take people wrapped in plate out with a sword is to pry the bastard open or jam it into a weak point like under the arm pit or through the visor, which both sword are capable of.

When you read about people like Richard Neville (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Neville,_16th_Earl_of_Warwick) getting taken out in battle, aka the dudes with the cash for an arse load of awesome plate they tend to get a) killed by mobs of guys with hammers or b) get brought to the ground and have their visors opened and then get stabbed to death as in the aforementioned Richard Neville incident.

This whole Katana isn't good against plate but long swords are business is complete horse shit. Both are sub par weapons at killing a guy in plate. You need a dirty great big hammer.

For your viewing pleasure.

Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Thomek on August 02, 2012, 02:20:44 pm
Of course Thomek is making shit up on the fly and is totally wrong. The katana relies on the drawn cut which is horribly ineffective against metal armor but good against cloth armor or just peasants. While the European Longsword is a very versatile weapon that with halfswording is also good against an armored opponent(makeshift polearm). It also isn't fixed on the drawn cut like the katana and its hewn cut is probably better against an enemy in maille than the banana isle peasant cutter.

I have my hopes in cmp and WSE that we can truly rap€ the light curved blade weapons like katana and scimitars in terms of holding up against metal armor. I'd give 'em a very good performance against cloth, leather and nakeds but against metal the drawn cut just doesn't cut it.
Go back to school.

Blabla, who says you can't half sword with a katana? OK you have no comparable pommel or handguard but half-swording is not ALL about that. And of course the impact energy/armor penetration/armor translation of energy has to do with a crapload of other factors too which has been discussed before. Just tried to make it simple so Ragnar would understand. I also fail to see how a slightly curved blade should behave so much WORSE than a straight blade against metal armor? None of them would penetrate either way. Only an idiot would try to use a cutting move against it.

But in general totally agree with your suggestion of having the right tool for the job when going up against different armors. To deal with plate one should have something heavy and stiff. That excludes most of the swords, especially most 1h swords.

I think we have a misunderstanding generally. You think I romanticize the katana, and so try to troll me hard about it, while I think you are a bit blind to how euros also romanticized certain swords.  Believe me I don't romanticize it, but I also don't think it deserves all the crap people are giving it.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Gurnisson on August 02, 2012, 02:44:30 pm
I have my hopes in cmp and WSE that we can truly rap€ the light curved blade weapons like katana and scimitars in terms of holding up against metal armor. I'd give 'em a very good performance against cloth, leather and nakeds but against metal the drawn cut just doesn't cut it.

Didn't you work a bit with the soak and reduce factors to make even relatively weak cut weapons damage and stun people in plate if it was a good hit?
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on August 02, 2012, 03:25:56 pm
A longsword doesn't cut plate armour much or any better than a katana. To get through plate, you need to pierce. And even piercing plate is hard regardless if you're using a longsword or a katana.

I have my hopes up that is cmp implement worse cut damage on plate, then it should be done across the board with swords and that half swording becomes the norm when fighting against plate users.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: zagibu on August 03, 2012, 12:55:42 am
Didn't you work a bit with the soak and reduce factors to make even relatively weak cut weapons damage and stun people in plate if it was a good hit?

Yep, that's him. Also, although the other dude was wrong about impact energy being equal to speed times weight (momentum), this value is still a good measurement for how damaging a weapon can be. Of course, it doesn't allow you to compare hammers to picks and swords, etc., but it's sufficient to compare weapons of the same class. That's why requirements as hard attribute values should be scrapped in favor of damage being scaled by the strength and WPF of the user.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Matey on August 03, 2012, 01:04:47 am
You are wrong, of course. The impact energy has as much to do with speed as it has to do with weight.


i saw an anime once where some teenage girls were able to cut through metal and stuff with paper. pretty sure this support Thomek's argument.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Ragnar on August 14, 2012, 07:49:06 pm
Blabla, who says you can't half sword with a katana? OK you have no comparable pommel or handguard but half-swording is not ALL about that. And of course the impact energy/armor penetration/armor translation of energy has to do with a crapload of other factors too which has been discussed before. Just tried to make it simple so Ragnar would understand. I also fail to see how a slightly curved blade should behave so much WORSE than a straight blade against metal armor?

Thomek seems to think you can half-sword with a katana....

 :lol: :lol: :lol:

/thread
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Shrugging Khan on August 18, 2012, 05:52:30 pm
I second the suggestion of getting rid of stat requirements.

Instead, players should have a chance of DROPPING their weapon/shield when they use it; a chance proportional to the difference between the old stat requirement and their relevant stat. Armour too heavy for their STR should cause greater speed and damage penalties.

Now that would be fun.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Ujio on August 31, 2012, 07:38:23 pm
Thomek seems to think you can half-sword with a katana....

 :lol: :lol: :lol:

/thread

Well why wouldn't you be able to?
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: zagibu on August 31, 2012, 08:11:43 pm
Because it's too sharp. The edge would cut through any gauntlets. Have you never heard of the laser-like edge of the katana? It is so sharp that it can create an underpressure in the air that kills anything within 20 feet of the swing direction.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: korppis on September 01, 2012, 11:28:16 am
It's so sharp that it can split atoms. In wrong hands that can cause a nuclear reaction.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: zagibu on September 05, 2012, 06:43:22 pm
Iran has now sold its centrifuges and started to import katanas.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Ujio on September 06, 2012, 10:16:57 pm
It's a single edged sword, surely it would be easier to Half-sword with a Katana, than a double-edged sword
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: zagibu on September 06, 2012, 11:41:53 pm
The back side is still ten times as sharp as the best western sword edge.
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: Ujio on September 13, 2012, 07:27:10 pm
But then, as long as you have a decent pair of gauntlets on (gauntlets made out of Katana) you should be fine, making half-swording possible
Title: Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
Post by: zagibu on October 27, 2012, 12:58:35 am
But then, as long as you have a decent pair of gauntlets on (gauntlets made out of Katana) you should be fine, making half-swording possible

Katana on Katana creates warp explosion. That's why samurais mostly used bows or spears, the risk is just too high.