katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail

[Bobthehero]

But then you'd break all gaming style, because of plate armor, and I couldn't do my swashbucklin' schtick anymore

[FRANK_THE_TANK]

But then you'd break all gaming style, because of plate armor, and I couldn't do my swashbucklin' schtick anymore

You could they would just need to make the side sword the weapon it really is.

Sure I've got 78 head Armour with that +3 Wiemar and +3 gpb on but the front is still full to bursting with vision slits so you just need to get a good poke in

Swords are rat balls against plate armour, the only way to take people wrapped in plate out with a sword is to pry the bastard open or jam it into a weak point like under the arm pit or through the visor, which both sword are capable of.

When you read about people like Richard Neville getting taken out in battle, aka the dudes with the cash for an arse load of awesome plate they tend to get a) killed by mobs of guys with hammers or b) get brought to the ground and have their visors opened and then get stabbed to death as in the aforementioned Richard Neville incident.

This whole Katana isn't good against plate but long swords are business is complete horse shit. Both are sub par weapons at killing a guy in plate. You need a dirty great big hammer.

For your viewing pleasure.

[Thomek]

Of course Thomek is making shit up on the fly and is totally wrong. The katana relies on the drawn cut which is horribly ineffective against metal armor but good against cloth armor or just peasants. While the European Longsword is a very versatile weapon that with halfswording is also good against an armored opponent(makeshift polearm). It also isn't fixed on the drawn cut like the katana and its hewn cut is probably better against an enemy in maille than the banana isle peasant cutter.

I have my hopes in cmp and WSE that we can truly rap€ the light curved blade weapons like katana and scimitars in terms of holding up against metal armor. I'd give 'em a very good performance against cloth, leather and nakeds but against metal the drawn cut just doesn't cut it.
Go back to school.

Blabla, who says you can't half sword with a katana? OK you have no comparable pommel or handguard but half-swording is not ALL about that. And of course the impact energy/armor penetration/armor translation of energy has to do with a crapload of other factors too which has been discussed before. Just tried to make it simple so Ragnar would understand. I also fail to see how a slightly curved blade should behave so much WORSE than a straight blade against metal armor? None of them would penetrate either way. Only an idiot would try to use a cutting move against it.

But in general totally agree with your suggestion of having the right tool for the job when going up against different armors. To deal with plate one should have something heavy and stiff. That excludes most of the swords, especially most 1h swords.

I think we have a misunderstanding generally. You think I romanticize the katana, and so try to troll me hard about it, while I think you are a bit blind to how euros also romanticized certain swords.  Believe me I don't romanticize it, but I also don't think it deserves all the crap people are giving it.

[Gurnisson]

I have my hopes in cmp and WSE that we can truly rap€ the light curved blade weapons like katana and scimitars in terms of holding up against metal armor. I'd give 'em a very good performance against cloth, leather and nakeds but against metal the drawn cut just doesn't cut it.

Didn't you work a bit with the soak and reduce factors to make even relatively weak cut weapons damage and stun people in plate if it was a good hit?

[Ninja_Khorin]

A longsword doesn't cut plate armour much or any better than a katana. To get through plate, you need to pierce. And even piercing plate is hard regardless if you're using a longsword or a katana.

I have my hopes up that is cmp implement worse cut damage on plate, then it should be done across the board with swords and that half swording becomes the norm when fighting against plate users.

[zagibu]

Didn't you work a bit with the soak and reduce factors to make even relatively weak cut weapons damage and stun people in plate if it was a good hit?

Yep, that's him. Also, although the other dude was wrong about impact energy being equal to speed times weight (momentum), this value is still a good measurement for how damaging a weapon can be. Of course, it doesn't allow you to compare hammers to picks and swords, etc., but it's sufficient to compare weapons of the same class. That's why requirements as hard attribute values should be scrapped in favor of damage being scaled by the strength and WPF of the user.

[Matey]

You are wrong, of course. The impact energy has as much to do with speed as it has to do with weight.

i saw an anime once where some teenage girls were able to cut through metal and stuff with paper. pretty sure this support Thomek's argument.

[Ragnar]

Blabla, who says you can't half sword with a katana? OK you have no comparable pommel or handguard but half-swording is not ALL about that. And of course the impact energy/armor penetration/armor translation of energy has to do with a crapload of other factors too which has been discussed before. Just tried to make it simple so Ragnar would understand. I also fail to see how a slightly curved blade should behave so much WORSE than a straight blade against metal armor?

Thomek seems to think you can half-sword with a katana....

 

/thread

[Shrugging Khan]

I second the suggestion of getting rid of stat requirements.

Instead, players should have a chance of DROPPING their weapon/shield when they use it; a chance proportional to the difference between the old stat requirement and their relevant stat. Armour too heavy for their STR should cause greater speed and damage penalties.

Now that would be fun.

[Ujio]

Thomek seems to think you can half-sword with a katana....

 

/thread

Well why wouldn't you be able to?

[zagibu]

Because it's too sharp. The edge would cut through any gauntlets. Have you never heard of the laser-like edge of the katana? It is so sharp that it can create an underpressure in the air that kills anything within 20 feet of the swing direction.

[korppis]

It's so sharp that it can split atoms. In wrong hands that can cause a nuclear reaction.

[zagibu]

Iran has now sold its centrifuges and started to import katanas.

[Ujio]

It's a single edged sword, surely it would be easier to Half-sword with a Katana, than a double-edged sword

[zagibu]

The back side is still ten times as sharp as the best western sword edge.