Author Topic: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail  (Read 11902 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Thomek

  • El Director
  • OKAM Developer
  • ***
  • Renown: 1372
  • Infamy: 481
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
    • View Profile
    • Ninja Guide Wiki
  • Faction: Ninja_
  • Game nicks: Ninja_Thomek
Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
« Reply #90 on: July 27, 2012, 01:03:56 am »
+5
This sword deserves its own sub-section.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


That Thomeck-delay-kicking bussiness is like that asshole-retard dude that fucks your sister sometimes.

Offline Ujio

  • Knight
  • ***
  • Renown: 70
  • Infamy: 59
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
« Reply #91 on: July 27, 2012, 10:49:26 pm »
0
No wonder
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


"By protecting Men, you save yourself."

Offline Fuma Kotaro

  • Marshall
  • ********
  • Renown: 839
  • Infamy: 220
  • cRPG Player
  • I'm Fubadubbaduma
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Lone Duck
  • Game nicks: Fuma + sth
  • IRC nick: sF_Leonidas
Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
« Reply #92 on: July 27, 2012, 11:24:46 pm »
+1
No wonder

Yep because everyone is to stupid to fight against it makes an op sword threat and cries that their greatswords are up
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Offline Ujio

  • Knight
  • ***
  • Renown: 70
  • Infamy: 59
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
« Reply #93 on: July 27, 2012, 11:46:08 pm »
0
Yep because everyone is to stupid to fight against it makes an op sword threat and cries that their greatswords are up

Well that, and the 16 Pierce Thrust, and only +1 Thrust on loom
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


"By protecting Men, you save yourself."

Offline Bonze

  • Knight
  • ***
  • Renown: 47
  • Infamy: 164
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Anti-Fagcher-Liberation-Front (AFLF)
  • Game nicks: King of FF bump
Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
« Reply #94 on: July 29, 2012, 04:32:58 pm »
0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=5Hy_A9vjp_s&NR=1

Watch at 5:40 ...

Katana is a hollywood buffed sword same with bows ..in reallity , the europan steel!!  conquered the world since ~ 1495  ,in the first period , (renaissance age!)  ...not the overrated  bows and not the katana scrap --




Got no Balls? Play archer. Got no sex? Play horse archer.

Offline zagibu

  • cRPG President
  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 1436
  • Infamy: 228
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
    • View Profile
Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
« Reply #95 on: July 30, 2012, 10:07:24 pm »
+1
We all know the Katana was not the mythical supersword it's currently depicted as in mainstream media, yet having less pierce damage than the light spiked club (1h) is a bit of a joke. I never owned a Katana and don't plan on ever owning one, but 16 pierce damage is simply imbalanced. There is no way around this fact.

Now, the question is, whether this imbalance should be adressed or not. Does really everything have to be balanced?
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 Why am I beswung by sharpe and pointed utensyls?

Offline Ninja_Khorin

  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 1067
  • Infamy: 90
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • Zen
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Clan Ninja
  • Game nicks: Khorin/Keyoke/Lujan
  • IRC nick: Khorin
Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
« Reply #96 on: July 30, 2012, 10:40:19 pm »
-1
To be honest. I think the 16p on Katana is fine. I prefer having different weapons, where every weapon has its niche than having everything on completely realistic basis. Katana's stab is good for interrupting attacks and confusing the enemy. I would not like to see it as a viable source of damage, mainly because it would make katana closer to longsword and bastard. Which is dull. I kind of like where the Katana is at the moment.

I want varying weapons. And not all weapons need to be 100% balanced because with varying weapons that is almost impossible.

Offline Ragnar

  • Peasant
  • *
  • Renown: 4
  • Infamy: 21
  • cRPG Player
  • Angron; Primarch of the World Eaters
    • View Profile
Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
« Reply #97 on: August 01, 2012, 12:49:51 am »
0
so many cunts going on about this dont seem to realize, if you really want realism, CUT DMG DOES NOTHING TO PLATE OR PLATE COMBO ARMORS, grab a real Nodachi and see what it does if you try to slash fucking chain mail, then kill yourself if you thought there would be a different result from what happened   :rolleyes:                      / thread


modified:

P.S.
Great swords were OP in real life melee 1v1 if you had the skill for them, (in reference to a post above)
look up "Double Zwerch" on YouTube and tell me a katana wielder could stand up to that lol
« Last Edit: August 01, 2012, 12:53:04 am by Ragnar »
"Yes, they were eaters of cities, but we, lord, shall be eaters of worlds."

Offline Thomek

  • El Director
  • OKAM Developer
  • ***
  • Renown: 1372
  • Infamy: 481
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
    • View Profile
    • Ninja Guide Wiki
  • Faction: Ninja_
  • Game nicks: Ninja_Thomek
Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
« Reply #98 on: August 01, 2012, 02:17:23 am »
0
its true cut damage do nothing to chain mail or plate.

Nearly no sword type weapons of the medieval age did any damage to those armors. Experienced through a good armor, 90% of the weapons we have in cRPG would get reduced to something heavy hitting your armor with different speeds and momentum..

Whatever energy got passed through to the wearer became blunt trauma. Plate just spread the shock over a bigger area. To actually kill someone like this would need a sharp thing like an awlpike for mail, or a long dagger through gaps in the armor. Or something very big and heavy like a hammer or huge axe to the head.. It all got translated to blunt damage through plate, mail and padding.

For all the swords, the only thing that would matter is how much energy you could project to the point of impact.

To me, except the range of it, the katana seems a sensible weapon. It's thick and solid enough to not bend when thrust through light armor or light mail, while the curve gives it a smaller cutting point than a straight weapon. It pays for these attributes in it's range, which is short.

In europe, take a classic longsword, they tried to increase range without adding more weight. They achieved this by adding groves to the blades, scraping off weight they could put at the tip instead. The swords payed for this in being less stiff and more bendable. Works excellent for duelling, peasants and portrait paintings, against armor not so much. For armor they developed shorter, stronger, blunter, more clubby weapons instead. (hammers, picks, flails, awlpikes and stuff like the goedendag)

TBH, using common sense I think the katana is closer to an anti-armor weapon than a longsword. Not by any means a weapon suitable for anti armor, but better than a long, thin, bendy blade.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2012, 02:22:47 am by Thomek »
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


That Thomeck-delay-kicking bussiness is like that asshole-retard dude that fucks your sister sometimes.

Offline Ragnar

  • Peasant
  • *
  • Renown: 4
  • Infamy: 21
  • cRPG Player
  • Angron; Primarch of the World Eaters
    • View Profile
Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
« Reply #99 on: August 01, 2012, 02:41:20 am »
-1
calling Katana an anti armor wep over European swords is troll level retarted,
a Nodachi or Katana cant even pierce proper chain mail with a full strength thrust, not to mention that you went on and on about "momentum" and "impact energy" and you ignore the fact that with a weapon that weighs nothing you transfer exactly that in terms of raw impact pressure


TLDR  HUUUR DDUUUR BUurd bbrbrbr
"Yes, they were eaters of cities, but we, lord, shall be eaters of worlds."

Offline Thomek

  • El Director
  • OKAM Developer
  • ***
  • Renown: 1372
  • Infamy: 481
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
    • View Profile
    • Ninja Guide Wiki
  • Faction: Ninja_
  • Game nicks: Ninja_Thomek
Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
« Reply #100 on: August 01, 2012, 03:48:28 am »
+1
You are wrong, of course. The impact energy has as much to do with speed as it has to do with weight.

If you get hit by a bowlingball travelling 10km/h or a ping pong ball travelling 1000km/h, doesn't matter if the energy that hits you is the same. (to take an extreme example) That is if you don't just jump out of the path of the bowlingball.

Look here how the longsword ended up against armor:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


That Thomeck-delay-kicking bussiness is like that asshole-retard dude that fucks your sister sometimes.

Offline zagibu

  • cRPG President
  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 1436
  • Infamy: 228
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
    • View Profile
Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
« Reply #101 on: August 01, 2012, 04:44:59 am »
0
Yeah, you can use the hand guard as a hammer head. A tsuba on the other hand won't work so well in this regard.

Also, you can't simply use the basic momentum formula. There is a max velocity a weapon can reach in the hands of a man does not linearly scale. There is an optimal weight, to gain the maximum momentum, and going both lighter and heavier will decrease the momentum you can attain.

Last but not least there is impact deformation which must be looked at. A pingpong ball won't do the same damage as a bowling ball, even if it has the same momentum.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 Why am I beswung by sharpe and pointed utensyls?

Offline Ragnar

  • Peasant
  • *
  • Renown: 4
  • Infamy: 21
  • cRPG Player
  • Angron; Primarch of the World Eaters
    • View Profile
Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
« Reply #102 on: August 01, 2012, 05:02:05 am »
-1
ok so its trolling
"Yes, they were eaters of cities, but we, lord, shall be eaters of worlds."

Offline Son Of Odin

  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 1856
  • Infamy: 338
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • Sky belongs to Asagods as long as the raven flies.
    • View Profile
  • Faction: Fallen Brigade
  • Game nicks: Fallen_Son_Of_Odin
Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
« Reply #103 on: August 01, 2012, 06:31:24 am »
-1
P.S.
Great swords were OP in real life melee 1v1 if you had the skill for them, (in reference to a post above)
look up "Double Zwerch" on YouTube and tell me a katana wielder could stand up to that lol

I wan't to see somebody doing as impressive stuff as this with katana (and don't link me a youtube video where someone swings air or chops carpet rolls.) Somewhere around 0:50 that dude hits hard :D
« Last Edit: August 01, 2012, 06:37:30 am by Son Of Odin »
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

There is no sight in my third eye

Offline Paul

  • Developer
  • ******
  • Renown: 1879
  • Infamy: 442
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • ball bounce boss
    • View Profile
  • IRC nick: Urist
Re: katana: extreme "based-on-reality balance" fail
« Reply #104 on: August 02, 2012, 08:28:13 am »
0
Of course Thomek is making shit up on the fly and is totally wrong. The katana relies on the drawn cut which is horribly ineffective against metal armor but good against cloth armor or just peasants. While the European Longsword is a very versatile weapon that with halfswording is also good against an armored opponent(makeshift polearm). It also isn't fixed on the drawn cut like the katana and its hewn cut is probably better against an enemy in maille than the banana isle peasant cutter.

I have my hopes in cmp and WSE that we can truly rap€ the light curved blade weapons like katana and scimitars in terms of holding up against metal armor. I'd give 'em a very good performance against cloth, leather and nakeds but against metal the drawn cut just doesn't cut it.

Quote from: Thomek
You are wrong, of course. The impact energy has as much to do with speed as it has to do with weight.
Go back to school.