cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: POOPHAMMER on May 31, 2012, 03:39:53 pm
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I really dont think that back in the good ol' days pikemen spun around like tornados in full plate while accurately landing hits. Maybe give them the same restriction a lancer has in a term of how far they can turn before the animation cancels? Could also apply to any weapon really. I've just always seen it as a cheap method of abusing speed bonuses.
Same here. Something should be done to speed up the game so not everyone can block 20 hits in a row. But these "techniques" (actually glitches) should be removed. I'm talking about lolpiking, lolstabing, loloverhead and other so called "techniques" that lets us to kill people in cheapest ways possible.
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should apply to ALL weapons, not just longspears
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should apply to ALL weapons, not just longspears
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should apply to ALL weapons, not just longspears
are you crazy?
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should apply to ALL weapons, not just longspears
this and:
Why not make a confirmation dialog: If you want to attack, every other player first has to accept the attack, then it is executed. Applies to all attacks of all players. Kinda roundbased combat zystem 8-)
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should apply to ALL weapons, not just longspears
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Lolthrusting is a very wonky mechanic, but removing it basically dooms all the 2-direction weapons.
What about just slowing down the rotation speed to humanly possible levels ?
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IMO make that certain amount 90 degrees, with it being more than 90 degrees onehand thrusting would be useless.
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What about blocking down until you hear the block sound?
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What about blocking down until you hear the block sound?
What about learning to fight without abusing game mechanics?
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What about learning to fight without abusing game mechanics?
What about a game where you can fight and land hits reliably without "abusing game mechanics"?
Stabs are crap, and need this turning around to not bounce off all the time.
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I'm a crossbowman/1h hybrid atm. Pikes and long spears would still work quite well but the likes of long awlpike/halberd/bill would be pretty shit, especially the long awlpike.
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What about a game where you can fight and land hits reliably without "abusing game mechanics"?
Stabs are crap, and need this turning around to not bounce off all the time.
Alright so what about a damage buff? I am not out to screw over polearm users, I just think the spinning and being able to hit someone who is right in front of you with a 300 length weapon is a tad absurd.
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Alright so what about a damage buff? I am not out to screw over polearm users, I just think the spinning and being able to hit someone who is right in front of you with a 300 length weapon is a tad absurd.
What about 2 meter, 360degree lul op 2h pikesword stabs then?
I am sure that's totally reasonable, and balanced.
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What about 2 meter, 360degree lul op 2h pikesword stabs then?
I am sure that's totally reasonable, and balanced.
As stated in my OP this can apply to any weapon type
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Don't slow down combat more please.
Un-nerf hiltslashing!
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As stated in my OP this can apply to any weapon type
imagine the rage of 2h elitists.
Idea will be turned down if you mess with them.
Remember the animation "nerf" that changed like a milisec or so in the animation?
Got removed in a day or so after massive 2h QQ. That's how strong they are.
Not that I as a polearmer say that what I use isn't overpowered in a way, I agree that the stagger is dumb, but 2h swords these days.. Dealing full damage with the stupid pommel/hilt, kills you from behind with a slash, has a 2 meter stab like a pike, ultra fast, screwed up hit detection, etc etc.
If polearms are broken, 2h greatswords are super broken. Just look how many min/maxers use them.
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imagine the rage of 2h elitists.
Idea will be turned down if you mess with them.
Remember the animation "nerf" that changed like a milisec or so in the animation?
Got removed in a day or so after massive 2h QQ. That's how strong they are.
I am a 2h user and I would not mind at all seeing this removed for 2h
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Well, i like fighting with Pikes and im alright with Awlpikers and stuff.
If you dont want to do softspots u simply need to spin around...
It also adds fun to this repeatetive game...
Every weapon type abuses certain animations like Hiltslashing or 1h left spam, just block and be alright man,
no need to remove it or be a crybaby :lol:
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I gave you a "-", because I think you're a anti-PK biased foreskin.
Now, in regards to the OP, it's not a bad idea, really.
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What about blocking down until you hear the block sound?
I play with sound off...
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I gave you a "-", because I think you're a anti-PK biased foreskin.
Now, in regards to the OP, it's not a bad idea, really.
I am not anti PK as much as I just dislike the general attitude the clan seems to display
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I play with sound off...
Gratz
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I am a 2h user and I would not mind at all seeing this removed for 2h
Same here. Something should be done to speed up the game so not everyone can block 20 hits in a row. But these "techniques" (actually glitches) should be removed. I'm talking about lolpiking, lolstabing, loloverhead and other so called "techniques" that lets us to kill people in cheapest ways possible.
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Wow, I entirely agree with Leshma. Epic moment :mrgreen:
Yeah I was thinking the same thing myself :lol:
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Wow, I entirely agree with Leshma.
+1, I hate being killed by an overhead attack that started miles away from my head and gets turned in from the side doing full damage. And I hate starting to abuse the long spear the same way others do it :|
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I am not anti PK as much as I just dislike the general attitude the clan seems to display
So you don't think we're funny or entertaining? Reading our PK threads, is just like watching a movie, but without the sex scenes. (unless it's Albert and I)
/feelsbadman.jpg
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So you don't think we're funny or entertaining? Reading our PK threads, is just like watching a movie, but without the sex scenes. (unless it's Albert and I)
/feelsbadman.jpg
Funny yeah but I do not like getting tked by you guys in the wee hours of the morning on NA lol
your positive vote could help this cause if you really support it :)
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Funny yeah but I do not like getting tked by you guys in the wee hours of the morning on NA lol
your positive vote could help this cause if you really support it :)
fair enough lol, and fine, I'll +1 haha
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imagine the rage of 2h elitists.
Idea will be turned down if you mess with them.
Remember the animation "nerf" that changed like a milisec or so in the animation?
Got removed in a day or so after massive 2h QQ. That's how strong they are.
Not that I as a polearmer say that what I use isn't overpowered in a way, I agree that the stagger is dumb, but 2h swords these days.. Dealing full damage with the stupid pommel/hilt, kills you from behind with a slash, has a 2 meter stab like a pike, ultra fast, screwed up hit detection, etc etc.
If polearms are broken, 2h greatswords are super broken. Just look how many min/maxers use them.
Because it was stupid as fuck. Polearms were still able to perform hiltslashes but 2hs not, it didnt make any sense at all.
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No turning for stabs = death sentence to 1handers.
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No turning for stabs = death sentence to 1handers.
Stats like thrust damage and weight can be changed to accomodate some realism.
Even though I'm a 12/27 1-Hander who mains a +3 Espada Eslanova I'm totally in favor of this change.
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No turning for stabs = death sentence to 1handers.
You could still turn, I think the OP is suggesting limiting the amount you could turn with a stab so maybe you wouldn't be able to stab the guy behind you by stabbing and spinning 180 degrees. Not that I don't agree with your statement though, if you can't turn with a 1h stab you're pretty much shit out of luck, I think the OP is suggesting keeping a reasonable turning amount but stopping the huge jump forwards spin 180 degrees whilst stabbing & hit the guy behind you.
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Because it was stupid as fuck. Polearms were still able to perform hiltslashes but 2hs not, it didnt make any sense at all.
Polearms got the same nerf, so no, they were not able to do it any better than the two-handers
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I think its a good idea if stabs get fixed in the same patch.
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I think it makes it realistic.
Make it not work for weapons of a certain length / weight (pike)...
But for regular sized spears and shit, it's def needed....
haven't any of you spar IRL before? Swinging trusts is mega useful.
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Overhead thrust.......and bring back proper hit collisions, this is Europe not wachowski bro shit....Cept on 1h. Cause it needs all the help it can get.
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Consistent blocking is already pretty easy for most players. Start removing things like this, and blocking will become completely trivial.
Against a competent player, you're already forced to do everything in your power to hide your animations. Even doing that, you're still going to see at least 10-20 blocks for every hit (barring impatience).
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Same here. Something should be done to speed up the game so not everyone can block 20 hits in a row. But these "techniques" (actually glitches) should be removed. I'm talking about lolpiking, lolstabing, loloverhead and other so called "techniques" that lets us to kill people in cheapest ways possible.
I thought the same until I realised that removing all these moves would make the gameplay even slower than it already is. Yes, these moves are nothing but cheap glitches, but without them we would be reduced to simple blockbashing all the time.
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I thought the same until I realised that removing all these moves would make the even gameplay slower than it is already. Yes, these moves are nothing but cheap glitches, but without them we would be reduced to simples blockbashing all the time.
Buff archery crossbows and throwing then!
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The 1H stab is total shit, and basically requires you to lolstab in order to do any damage with it.
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I like this idea, it is a bit stupid.
Perhaps in regards to polearms give them sideswings back if lolstab is removed? It'll look silly with the really long ones but if its practical for combat purposes, why not?
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I thought the same until I realised that removing all these moves would make the gameplay even slower than it already is. Yes, these moves are nothing but cheap glitches, but without them we would be reduced to simple blockbashing all the time.
But there's nothing more intense and badass than block battles !
Man I loved those duels with IG_Saint, just the two of us standing face to face exchanging blows at the speed of light.
I'm 100% with Leshma, remove the glitches and the lame tricks, and speed up the game across the board. Some games are much faster than this one and don't suffer from ping issues.
I mean, isn't it retarded I can either fight other onehanders like a man with a similarly sized sword and outplay them by making my hits in without relying on broken mechanics, or just take a long bardiche, swing left, turn around them to the right and hiltslash ? Or take a poleaxe, swing right and immediately stab like a certain someone.
The game felt much better when the best perfoming players were those that blocked better, and not those that abused their weapons the most effectively. That is still the case in Native to a degree, but the slowness of cRPG makes fighting without cheating the engine a tedious process.
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Is all reasonable and well for melee, but this fucks up defense against cav, so no.
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Hoplites will be screwed. The discussed game mechanic (turning while stabbing) is a minor compensation for the enemies ability, to 100% block a spear-stab; which is ridiculous, because it should be much more difficult to block a thrust than block a swing.
The abusing of the game mechanic - to turn around 180 degrees while stabbing - is, in addition to "holding attacks", the bread and butter of a hoplite. Apart from that, we have one attack direction, therefore useless feint, slow attack because of shield, therefore useless kick, low damage because of shield.
Why I am playing hoplite? Dont know, its kinda fun :mrgreen:
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I really dont think that back in the good ol' days pikemen spun around like tornados in full plate while accurately landing hits.
I don't think that in the "good ol' days", pikemen or any kind of warrior 'class' were limited to a maximum of 4 attack directions either.
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The 1H stab is total shit, and basically requires you to lolstab in order to do any damage with it.
The onehanded stab requires you to make a 45 degree turn, not what I'd call a lolstab.
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Hoplites sort of work in groups without lolstabs. Mind you, a 40 deg turn isn't a lolstab. Only solo they're really in trouble. Onehanders don't require the lolstab either: a slight turn is enough for it not to bounce.
As for combat speed, with the armour wpf nerf and more stringent wpf limits crpg combat was slowed down somewhat; just changing the wpf curve or armour penalities would speed it back up again. But the game is a lot about team combat; the best blocker won't block when someone throws something in his chest or tramples him. People don't fight as a team that much though.
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tell, just how the hell does SPINNING give you speed bonus eh? EH?
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You cant fix combat engine by removing the mechanic is build around.
I hope for fixing this issue in M&B2 with a lot of deeper combat generally, but for warband it would be fun killer.
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Is all reasonable and well for melee, but this fucks up defense against cav, so no.
How so ?
Maybe it could prevent greatsword thrusts from having an effectively longer reach than heavy lances, which does, you know, not make sense.
Pike and longspear thrusts would be fine.
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But there's nothing more intense and badass than block battles !
Weeeeell...No. Dont you ever get tired of trying to kill some blockbot? Oh wait. You're cav!
Simply outblocking someone got boring a long long time ago.
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But there's nothing more intense and badass than block battles !
Blockfests lost their novelty six months ago. Right now they are yawn-inducingly boring, and only end when somebody gets impatient.
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why not add inertia as a speed penalty on character turning?
it's fairly simple:
the longer and heavier the weapon, the higher the speed penalty in character turning when an attack or block is in process (as soon as it starts until it ends).
I would love to see that!
although maybe a little more balancing will be necessary for all the people who are using mw glaives and mw long hafted blade and such, so they don't commit suicide all at once. long spear shouldn't be that big of a problem any more. mauls neither. they will still have their own advantages in serious team play, trust me.
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1h thrust.. probably leave it alone...
2h and polearm thrust.. wonky ugly thing.
Not sure, poop, but this may be a good idea.
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Hmm. It depends to what degree. One of a hoplites best techniques against 1h+shield is to swing you spear around the edge of the shield (something that is actually quite hard to perfect). But it requires turning quite a lot. Also works against a lot of weapons. I agree spinstabbing 360 is dumb though.
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It should apply to all animations, not just stabs. Ninjas jumping away from you with their back turned, then turning around in the air and slashing your throat are also nerf-worthy.
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Even though more attack directions and more diversified mechanics would be a good thing, I do believe speeding up the game would make blockfests more intense and enjoyable even for those that avoid them.
Besides, there's more to it than just blocks. Feints, holds and chamberblocks make it very interesting but that aspect of M&B combat has been gradually overshadowed by footwork and cheap tricks, even though being still valid against 95% of the playerbase. I can even say that ratio increases because people are forgetting how to block when they only need to move and spam.
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what about decreased damage depending on how much you spin? i'd like to see that for all directions, would make other footwork then backpeddling viable again
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How so ?
Maybe it could prevent greatsword thrusts from having an effectively longer reach than heavy lances, which does, you know, not make sense.
Pike and longspear thrusts would be fine.
mh, those are two different points. first, I think it is a good thing you can spin-thrust into an approaching horse, regardless the weapon. If someone notices a cav that wants to rape him from behind in the last second he should not be handicapped.
second, every good lancer proofs that this is not true. If I try to 2h stab aslan chagan (or what is his name?) or Tommyy back in the days or someone else that good I am doomed. Only cavs that approach too close can be beaten with a greatsword (and those are even voulnerable to 1h thrusts). Also this has nothing to do with turning during the thrust-animation, you need only to strafe right and left and time your thrust.
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mh, those are two different points. first, I think it is a good thing you can spin-thrust into an approaching horse, regardless the weapon. If someone notices a cav that wants to rape him from behind in the last second he should not be handicapped.
second, every good lancer proofs that this is not true. If I try to 2h stab aslan chagan (or what is his name?) or Tommyy back in the days or someone else that good I am doomed. Only cavs that approach too close can be beaten with a greatsword (and those are even voulnerable to 1h thrusts). Also this has nothing to do with turning during the thrust-animation, you need only to strafe right and left and time your thrust.
if you notice it to late you can jump out the way...
Spinthrusting is gay...
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mh, those are two different points. first, I think it is a good thing you can spin-thrust into an approaching horse, regardless the weapon. If someone notices a cav that wants to rape him from behind in the last second he should not be handicapped.
second, every good lancer proofs that this is not true. If I try to 2h stab aslan chagan (or what is his name?) or Tommyy back in the days or someone else that good I am doomed. Only cavs that approach too close can be beaten with a greatsword (and those are even voulnerable to 1h thrusts). Also this has nothing to do with turning during the thrust-animation, you need only to strafe right and left and time your thrust.
Maybe you should ask them, but I don't think they will tell you they outrange 2h thrusts very often, or rather count on it to stay alive. 100% of the lancers I know avoid 2h regardless of their ability to hit first, because it's not worth the risk.
Spinthrusting does matter though, because of the sprint mechanisms, it's faster to move "forward" constantly and turn using your mouse, which is what some people use to make dodging and hitting cav even easier.
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Spinthrusting does matter though, because of the sprint mechanisms, it's faster to move "forward" constantly and turn using your mouse, which is what some people use to make dodging and hitting cav even easier.
I don't know what your describing and can't imaging surviving cav with it.
Anyway, the more I think about it, it would probably don't hurt cav-defense too much because in 95% of the cases I turn and then thrust.
And again, if the thrust of the lance is timed perfect you can do nothing with 2h thrust. But it is very hard to time that good and when I play cav myself I die everytime I go near a 2h. It is more easy to strafe left with the horse as well risking that you not hit him yourself.
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good ideas but when you are speaking about good ol times...add overhead stap and make able to couchepike as footmen( same as lancers do with pressing x just for pikmens on foot) that they can run into the enemy and kill them
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Yeah, I was thinking the same. Once the person has committed to the attack, they should only be able to turn, lets say, 45 degrees to the left or right. If they want to turn more they'll have to either cancel the attack or wait till the attack is finished. This would make good footwork more rewarding, as it would actually be possible to dodge an attack.
I was also thinking that maybe the degree to which you can turn, could improve as wpf gets higher, with respective weapon.
Maybe for example less than 100 wpf means you can turn 45 degrees to the left or right once committed to the attack.
100 wpf means you can turn 50 degrees.
135 wpf means you can turn 55 degrees.
And 170+ wpf means you can turn 60 degrees, which would be the cap on turning ability.
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To me CRPG is all about the freedom of what you can do... Freedom of motion.
This game mechanic doesn't need to be added in just because long spear users can 1v1 competently.
However, 1h stab needs fixing.
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No, melee combat needs variation such as spinning thrusts to stay fun, removing things like this will make some weapons really boring to use.
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I had to vote yes, it's just ridiculous seeing polearms spinning around like that. Maybe it would balance out if they gave the 2 directional polearms left and right stab animations. ( gl finding good animations for that)
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Stop this long spear spin crap, and in return give them the overhead thrust animation like in Napoleonic Wars.
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What if it was more like real life? You know... fast? Stabbing animations are so silly looking. Come on, you've all seen fencing: Fast as lightning fights that are over in seconds with a flurry of stabs. I'm not proposing we do anything THAT fast but still... if stabbing animations were faster, all this lolthrusting shit wouldn't be a problem. Really you could turn your body quickly and stab at the same time, but it wouldn't look anything like what we have now.
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Maybe your turn speed while attacking (thrust, slash, anything) could be slowed based on the length/weight of the weapon? That makes the most "realism" sense to me. Either that, or reducing damage if you spin too fast.
Maybe increasing your WPF could reduce the penalty?
In any case, I feel like tweaking things would be better than straight up removing it from the game.
What if it was more like real life? You know... fast? Stabbing animations are so silly looking. Come on, you've all seen fencing: Fast as lightning fights that are over in seconds with a flurry of stabs. I'm not proposing we do anything THAT fast but still... if stabbing animations were faster, all this lolthrusting shit wouldn't be a problem. Really you could turn your body quickly and stab at the same time, but it wouldn't look anything like what we have now.
It makes sense that you are able to turn around quickly while thrusting with a dagger or light sword. But if you had a 3 meter long pike it would be like paddling an oar through water. That's why I think length and weight should be part of some equation that slows you, reduces your damage, or adds a stagger like the "unbalanced" property when you spin with a huge weapon.
As much as I loved being a whirlwind barbarian in Diablo II, this is not a fantasy game, said forums user "A_Hot_Elf_Princess"
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im ok w/ this... if you remove hiltslashing from 2h
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I'm down! Remove the crazy!!!
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Maybe you should ask them, but I don't think they will tell you they outrange 2h thrusts very often, or rather count on it to stay alive. 100% of the lancers I know avoid 2h regardless of their ability to hit first, because it's not worth the risk.
Spinthrusting does matter though, because of the sprint mechanisms, it's faster to move "forward" constantly and turn using your mouse, which is what some people use to make dodging and hitting cav even easier.
I avoid them. The only way I can outreach them (with the current lance radius) is to be turning my horse as I come in for the thrust. But it requires me to know/guess where someone will be at a point in time. If they move directly in front of my horse (or basically into my turn) then they out reach my lance by hitting my horses head. If they side step out of my turn radius, then they have a chance to side swing as they jump and take off my head. it's just not worth fucking with them unless they are engaged.
And even if I time it perfectly, and the 2h'er remains in place, if they have a great sword/flamberge, etc there's still a good chance they'll out reach my lance with their "ghost" reach. 2h animations are nice.
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Even though more attack directions and more diversified mechanics would be a good thing, I do believe speeding up the game would make blockfests more intense and enjoyable even for those that avoid them.
Besides, there's more to it than just blocks. Feints, holds and chamberblocks make it very interesting but that aspect of M&B combat has been gradually overshadowed by footwork and cheap tricks, even though being still valid against 95% of the playerbase. I can even say that ratio increases because people are forgetting how to block when they only need to move and spam.
Cheap trips and Footwork lumped into the same category? What the flying fuck.
Also, from what I've heard, you're a cavalry, so obviously all these feints, holds and chamberblocks might look all fancy to you, but at this point stuff like that can be done with the same ease as regular blocking. Chambers can be done on split second decisions while jacking off, holds aren't all that hard, you just release your mouse button a few milliseconds later, feints are equally as easy.
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nerds
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Glorious! Thanks for the support guys.