tbh Courser often die in one hit because of its speed, also as a rider myself because i am riding on a fast courser i can die from any throwing weapon due to speed bonus from 1 hit. 2 shots from arbalest is enough to bring down a courser, riding this pony you will often find yourself crash into walls and often lead you to ur doom. I say buff the horses leg's damage back to where it was before so it can balance out all the horse cuz before plate charger can at least take 5+ hits before it die and now it can die in 1-3 hit which makes life alot harder for 1 handed / 2 handed cav as they will always engage in melee
What I don't like of these new states on some horses is their big jump in states they have compared to the more costly ones.
The best balanced horse (Destrier) gets 42 speed/manoeuvre which is fine as the previous horses have comparative stats but less hp/armour and charge, tough the manoeuvre and speed horses have a big gap over their precedents.
If a steppe horse with 47 manoeuvre has 37 speed why the courser has 46 speed AND 41 manoeuvre? Wouldn't it be more appropriate 37-38 manoeuvre?
The same can be said for the arabian, it has 48 manoeuvre (Very high) but it also has 41 speed which is a lot compared to the steppe horse which has 37 speed.
If these horses stats where to remain the same, wouldn't be appropriate to add a new balanced horse with 44 speed?
Just saying..
Nerf courser.
Yours sincerely,
Destrier Owner
Manoeuvre is VERY important now than ever with the limited amount a lancer can turn it's thrust on horse.
Both points are useful (Manoeuvre more to rangers) and like I previously said if they where to remain the same a new horse with 44 speed should be added as high tier of the balanced horses.
destrier and armoured horses are far better than the courser
So if its been nerfed before and its used by everyone, its probably OP.
Nerf yourself
Which is why all of the best lancer cav use coursers?
As said before, with the speed bonus courser gets onehitted often from throwing weapons or arbalest if the rider isn't extremely careful with his riding speed and positioning. I've had situations where 1 arrow has left approximately 1hp to my champion courser. I wouldn't call that OP. Due to it's large size courser is pretty easy to hit with ranged weapons as well, whereas arabian doesn't get hit as often (I assume it has smaller hitboxes... And if it doesnt it still looks smaller).
A lancer with courser can be and is deadly but I would be way more concerned about the ones who ride arabian because they kick your arse in cav duels and eat infantry as breakfast... I like the fact that there is different kind of horses to fit one's playstyle. They all have different things that people prefer.(click to show/hide)
you mean huey? cause all the other cav using coursers are not good and huey thinks the dest+armoured horses are better but enjoys the courser more.
Even if manuverability where important to a lancer cav, i can count on one hand the number of lancer cav ive seen riding a high manuver horse. And given that fact i would assume 99% of the lancer cav player base would agree with me. The range of motion on a lance is so bad theirs no point in trying to do anything but straight charge someone. Maneuverability is more important for 1h cavalry but still not really important.
i dont have a problem with the courser, even though its overused...its the arab that needs to go up 50% from where its at. So your telling me an agile thoroughbred trained Arabian is LESS expensive than a common run of the mill destrier?
i dont have a problem with the courser, even though its overused...its the arab that needs to go up 50% from where its at. So your telling me an agile thoroughbred trained Arabian is LESS expensive than a common run of the mill destrier?
You mention getting one hit due to speed bonus, the same thing applies to a destriter. My +3 has been one shotted by bows plenty of times and its not so much the speed bonus its getting shot in the head with a powerful weapon.
Destrier is better than Courser.
They have similar maneuver but Courser is a lot faster which means it's actually harder to maneuver with Courser. Courser is great when you want to ambush someone going in a straight line but against other cavalry isn't good at all, despite its high speed.
Arabian is the king of horses on EU1. And large war horse, which has stupidly huge model (perfect for bumping people).
I really don't care about the stats... they're pretty flimsy horses and aren't terribly cheap.They are stealthy only because they have the speed to surprise you before you turn around and actually see them ;). Solution = More metal sounds mod. I think you can hear horses far more better when using it (even from longer distance). Against aware opponent I would take Arabian any day especially now since the lance angle is what it is.
I do get very, very annoyed with how goddamn quiet these horses are while moving so fast. If there were a way to just increase the noise they make, I'd be happy. These Stealth Coursers are fucking annoying.
I really don't care about the stats... they're pretty flimsy horses and aren't terribly cheap.
I do get very, very annoyed with how goddamn quiet these horses are while moving so fast. If there were a way to just increase the noise they make, I'd be happy. These Stealth Coursers are fucking annoying.
i dont have a problem with the courser, even though its overused...its the arab that needs to go up 50% from where its at. So your telling me an agile thoroughbred trained Arabian is LESS expensive than a common run of the mill destrier?
Yes you can turn to avoid a courser, and i do that multiple times of every round of every game i play on a desteriter. Ya youll get ahead of them but with their insane speed they will be back within lance range of you in about 3-5 seconds and you have to turn again. If they choose to chase you indefinitely it is very difficult for you to do anything at all and they will eventually get you no matter how bad they are. And staying behind a horse is about controlling your speed and being quick to react to their turning movements, and like i just said even though they will lose you a little with the turn you can catch back up in a few seconds for another chance to lance them and cutting someone off is alot easier when your twice as fast as they are.
Ive ridden both horses and i go down faster on a cataphract that is so slow and big that it can be shot 10 times and killed in 30-40 seconds vs a courser that can be shot at all game and not get hit once due to its speed.
Disagree, I don't know what you are doing but in a turning fight, you will always beat the courser.
Unless he runs away to return later, in which case you have more than 3 to 5 seconds...
Staying behind a horse is by no means controlling him as well, you control your enemy by making him act. Sure, if you are behind someone you cut of certain angles of escape or attack, but they can outwit you and reverse the tables.
What? Where do you play that no one manages to hit a speeding courser in a round? :?
Even as a HA hitting a courser going full speed is no harder than hitting any other horse. It only takes slightly more leading...if anything I would say it is harder to hit someone moving erratically(i.e. agility).
Yeah, but even a guy on a courser will have the same problem if someone is really dedicated to hunting them down...
The same applies to any horse, if your enemy makes it their sole goal to remove you from the battle even a Sumpter can disrupt your attacks.
I just don't quite understand your complaints, it seems to be mostly about the fact that speed is useful and that you have a slower but much more survivable horse? I would be just as confused if someone made a thread about how Coursers are bad because they are not agile enough.
Not really, if your on a courser, you simply run away from the person chasing you they cant catch you. You will leave them in the dust in a matter of seconds.
Go ahead and nerf coursers, I couldn't care less. You make coursers sound like rocket ships that can hunt down other cav and are amazingly supreme. You dont lance so yo don't understand how most cav v cav kills are made. In almost all my experince its usually happens in a head on or you get t-boned by a lancer. Both of these situations are easily avoidable if you know how to manuever your horse. Honestly Lemmy, what kind of damage can a lancer do if he is directly behind you poking you in the back with a lance. Which is very Hard (if you keep turning)because the speed bonus is gone because your both riding the same way. If anything when he's behind you like that you can do more damage with a backhanded slash. This whole I'm going so fast that archers can't see me bullshit is getting old. Half of being a cav is knowing where to be when to pick ppl off. And if you think you move to slow still do what Habb did with his champ cata and go 9 riding and outmaneuver everybody else. Ultimately the stats only help so much when other cav also have higher points in riding than you as well.
And overdriven, obviously the courser has the same or better manuverability as any other horse other than arabian (so by your logic their acceleration and ability to hit top speed is as good or better than nay other horse than arabian), being above average in a category like manuverability is not a weakness.
I ride a +3 destriter, and everything u said about a courser in reguards to weakness can be said about a +3 destriter. It gets one shotted by throwers all the time, and obviously running into a wall near infantry will get you dehorsed and killed unless your riding a charger or something.
Hobb a courser rider is on top of the charts 90% of the time. You and your clan mates who ride catas rarely perform as well as courser riders do, despite the fact that catas cost 44k and coursers only cost 19k, that is a big problem.
Overdriven your distorting the facts by compareing the courser to a small group of horses that does have more manuverability than a courser. If you actually include all of the horses the average manuverability is 41, making the coursre as i said average, and being average in a category is nto a weakness, especially when your the undisputed best in the most important category, speed, and when your very cheap compared to the average horse price.
Badplayer, ya its a pure conicidence all the best lancers use Courser cavs, it really is just the player themselves and not the courser that makes them good. Even if that were true, then given the fact that the best players ride coursers, wouldnt that mean that the courser is the best horse? I mean it must be if the best and most knowledge cav players all choose to ride coursers, they of all people would know what the best horse is.
Are you seriously counting the heavy horses when discussing the courser? Stick to the light horses. And if you do that then courser is low tier for manoeuvre. Heavies can't be included in a discussion as they are pretty much a different section to that of the light horses. Speed is not the most important category at all. You are obviously clueless as to how real cav fights work.
Really? Last I checked there's a fair even spread of the top lancers horse use. I've seen plenty on arabians, destriers or coursers. Hell just look at Kerri and Leed, two of the best EU lancers who use Arabians.
The coursers price is fine and I have enough gold that even if you doubled the price it wouldn't matter to me. But putting it up at all is entirely unnecessary.
As for it being OP. I can guarantee that riding a courser around is a pretty skilled thing. Try riding it at full speed on most maps where turning is required a lot....it's not going to happen. Give me open plains and I'll tear the map a part with my +3 courser. But any slight hill and the other horse types are at an advantage.
And at any rate as i said eariler the NA lancers are better than the EU lancers. American lancers win cav compitions in EU, which should never happenThat is only because I wasn't able to participate in that competition :twisted:. And as far as I know it wasn't "competitions" it was only one competition that has ever been arranged.
Yes im counting the heavy horses when discussing the courser, because this disccusion is about horse price, and they are all horses weather they are heavy or not. Even then a 19k courser is better than a 65k plated charger, how is that ok, why would a serious player choose to ride a plated charger, because the plated charger looks prettier? Even if i stuck to light horses, then in that case courser would still be #1 in damage and would now be #1 in durability/survivability... hmm that sounds really OP to me we should probably nerf it or at-least make it more expensive huh.
I dont now about how many on EU use arabians, but no one does on NA, including the best cav lancers who all use coursers. And at any rate as i said eariler the NA lancers are better than the EU lancers. American lancers win cav compitions in EU, which should never happen. And obviously your biased given the fact that you ride a courser, so i have a hard time giving credibility to your arguments. Turning in towns?
The secret there is to just slow down like everyone else does. So a courser is balanced because in the unlikely event that you inentionally run up a hill while being followed by a arabian lancer, of which there are very few on EU and none on NA, then you might get run down and hit, which is what happens all the time everywhere to every cav who isnt riding a courser and is being chased by a horseman on a courser.
I think this picture pretty much tells everything worth reading for those who cba to read the madmans talk. Look at the picture. Read the text and then look at the picture again. I bet you get it, I wouldn't like to explain why it fits here :P(click to show/hide)
Heavy horses have only been less viable since the horse leg damage introduction (an admittedly stupid idea), otherwise they were well worth the price however. On city maps a well amoured plated charger user could do a lot of damage. The courser wouldn't be number 1 in durability. That's the destrier which is a bloody pain in the arse to take down (a horse which you ride). Ask an HA which the hardest light horse to kill is and it'll be the destrier every time. Simply because it takes so many god damn arrows. And what makes you think the courser is number 1 in damage?
Hmmm yes one competition which does not in any way reflect even closely on a battle situation obviously makes the NA over all better lancers :rolleyes: For someone who was so insistent on sticking to the stats you should be able to see the amount of bullshit in your statement.
As I stated...increasing the price of the courser wouldn't affect me (big gold reserves woo). So yeah I'm not biased. I simply see 0 basis for raising it in your arguments other than 'ZOMG I GOT SO BUTTRAPED BY AN AWESOME NA COURSER LANCER FFFFUUUUUUUUUUUU'. Despite the fact that you are trying to present your arguments well, the statements are full of crap and that's what it amounts to. The -13 on your OP should have given you a big enough clue by now.
There are quite a lot of arabians on EU. And even if they aren't, the destrier can get from stop-start faster than a courser, as can the majority of light horses (the most used). And given the maps that the official servers have on rotation, that is what is most important. I will say it again and again. Speed means shit all except for the most open maps where even then good cav know how to weave and dodge so the speed can be nullified.
Yes i would put NA cav over Eu cav from one compeition, EU was not even beaten by our best cav, and the fact that they were beaten when the US players had atrocious ping (timing is very important in lancer cav fight) as some of if not all of them were on the west coast. EU should never have lost under those circumstances and still 1 win is more than EUs 0 so id have to put NA cav ahead of EU.
you get most of your damage when your cav from your horses movement speed, which i guess you don't know because you don't now very much about cavalryThis is something every HA knows and uses, considering we do our damnedest to add any damage to our poor, poor arrows through movement of both our enemy and ourselves...Overdriven is certainly not unknowledgeable about this fact.
(as far as i know everyone on this page so far is a courser user except me)
Given that the courser has about has much hp and about as much armor as a destriter
I can't tell if you're trolling or not, but here goes.
So we need to balance this and put Arabian in front of the courser since it costs more money and riding! Im getting ripped off
I agree. Best way to buff Arabian is to lower riding requirement to 6.
I agree. Best way to buff Arabian is to lower riding requirement to 6.Just hell no... ps 7 Arabian warhorse lancers all over the place... No thanks...
I don't get it, isn't speed bonus most important for lancer and 1Hcav? I think that Garrus has 5 PS and I know that Royanss has 5 PS as 1Hcav. Having 7 PS is a buff, but mainly when you're fighting on foot.
5ps was enough for my lancing 15/21 on an arabian. manoeuver ftwmore riding,more dmg u deal with your lance. I couldn't kill anyone with 5ps,and then i got 7 riding and used AW and it was easier to kill.
I don't get it, isn't speed bonus most important for lancer and 1Hcav? I think that Garrus has 5 PS and I know that Royanss has 5 PS as 1Hcav. Having 7 PS is a buff, but mainly when you're fighting on foot.
You forget riding also increases acceleration meaning if I stop waiting for a good angle on a guy fighting a friendly it's possible I can almost get to full speed when I charge into it. Depending how far away I stop, even if I don't get full speed it's always more than enough to bump him to the floor.But I doubt that it doesn't make a big enough difference when it comes to Arabian since the horse itself is so agile.
LOLOLOLOLOLBarely skimmed any of the other posts besides original one.
I can't tell if you're trolling or not, but here goes.
Point 1
Destrier: 42 base speed, 33 base charge.
Courser: 46 base speed, 24 base charge.
4 speed difference. 9 base charge damage difference. If we use even stupid simple algebra, for the
destrier
42+33= 75 = Y = destrier (lets use this number as a "score" for total charge damage
Courser
46+24= 70 = X = courser
75>70 Destrier > Courser in terms of charge damage.
The damage system isn't even a simple linear determinant like the one I posted, but works with the same percentages across the board. A 4 speed advantage will NEVER outweigh 9 more base damage.
Point 2
Speed bonus is a double edged sword, throwing weapons, arrows and bolts all have their own distance and base damage determinants, however if the target horse is moving faster, the speed bonus will be even greater. I'm sure you can wrap your mind around this concept. If not, i suggest you stop reading and go read some picture books.
Courser: base Hp and armor
Hp: 100
Armor: 18
Lets use another score system similar to the charge damage one,
100+18= 118 = X
Destrier base Hp and armor
Hp: 120
Armor: 27
120+27= 147 = Y
147> 118
Y > X
Destrier > Courser
More hp and armor coupled with less speed, 42, compared to the coursers 46, which means less speed bonus when hit with melee or ranged weapons, means the destrier has survivability beyond that of the coursers in a duke it out take ranged hits test.
Point 3
Balancing the game around the most successful players in a specific class is an excellent way to kill the game.
You do understand this don't you?
Point 4
As if it even mattered for my argument at all, but I thought i'd post it anyways,
I play with a piece of shit laptop that runs me around 10-30 fps 99% of the time when playing, on top of that 80-95 range, ping and a wireless mouse.
Also I wear the same armor, all the time. People love to single me out and gun for me, with whatever ranged weapon or melee weapon, it may be.
Here comes the big E-peen cumshot
*Warning Arrogant Statement Incoming*(click to show/hide)
LOLOLOLL
Will read other posts when done studying for math test. God I hate math, but only one more semester of it, after
Balancing the game around the best players is a good idea. A new player would pick whatever random horse he thought was cool, and experienced player knows what horse is the best horse and they will pick that horse (why would you deliberately ride a horse you thought was shit). They know what is best and therefore is overpowered.heres just 4 images of me proving you wrong ive got more if you want them (3 on cataphract 1 on warhorse)
You also mentioned your games getting 50+ kills and what not, and ive seen other courser players score in the 40s. Ive never seen anyone whose ridden any other horse get into the 40s, or really even close. The most non courser horse kills ive seen is around 33 i believe. That is a huge difference. The coursers speed also enables it to get around the battle field faster to make more attacks on enemies which is the biggest strength of cavalry.
You can say its the skill of the players, but that only confirms the fact that the best and most knowledgle riders use them, which confirms that they are the best horse. I doubt anyone seriously believes that number of kills could be attainted with any other horse. And as ive told others if you didnt think the courser was the best lancer horse you wouldn't ride one.
In terms of armor, i never claimed that a courser is more durable than a destriter, i havnt been comparing a courser to a destriter in particular. A courser even though it is weaker than a desetriter is sitll stronger than an arabian, despite the fact that an arabian costs more. I was talking about survability, which i factor in the speed of the horse to its ability to survie.
A horse as fast as a coursr can outrun and get away from any cav and can quickly move out of range of archers shooting at them. Not to mention its a lot harder to hit a faster target with a bow and arrow. The fact that a horse as physically weak as the courser commonly survives to the end of the round if the team wins is an indicator how much speed helps.
Balancing the game around the best players is a good idea. A new player would pick whatever random horse he thought was cool, and experienced player knows what horse is the best horse and they will pick that horse (why would you deliberately ride a horse you thought was shit). They know what is best and therefore is overpowered.
You also mentioned your games getting 50+ kills and what not, and ive seen other courser players score in the 40s. Ive never seen anyone whose ridden any other horse get into the 40s, or really even close. The most non courser horse kills ive seen is around 33 i believe. That is a huge difference. The coursers speed also enables it to get around the battle field faster to make more attacks on enemies which is the biggest strength of cavalry.
You can say its the skill of the players, but that only confirms the fact that the best and most knowledgle riders use them, which confirms that they are the best horse. I doubt anyone seriously believes that number of kills could be attainted with any other horse. And as ive told others if you didnt think the courser was the best lancer horse you wouldn't ride one.
Not to mention its a lot harder to hit a faster target with a bow and arrow.
-Courser is the fast one, its designed to hit and run, run far far away after hittings. That is its purpose, if you don't like it its your problems
-Arabian is agile horse, designed for close combat and dodging with ease.
-Destrier is the hard, balanced horse.
You also mentioned your games getting 50+ kills and what not, and ive seen other courser players score in the 40s. Ive never seen anyone whose ridden any other horse get into the 40s, or really even close. The most non courser horse kills ive seen is around 33 i believe. That is a huge difference. The coursers speed also enables it to get around the battle field faster to make more attacks on enemies which is the biggest strength of cavalry.
So we should buff Arabian cuz its easy to shoot since it can't out run arrows and has less armor than a courser and costs more upkeep and riding. It's so sad my Champion Arabian is so useless in comparison to the Destrier and especially the courser.
(click to show/hide)
*edit* This has no purpose other than to show that even when im not using the best horse i still got a pretty good KDR.