Nerf The Courser

[Son Of Odin]

You forget riding also increases acceleration meaning if I stop waiting for a good angle on a guy fighting a friendly it's possible I can almost get to full speed when I charge into it. Depending how far away I stop, even if I don't get full speed it's always more than enough to bump him to the floor.

But I doubt that it doesn't make a big enough difference when it comes to Arabian since the horse itself is so agile.

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And it isn't only a doubt. My statement is based on experience. We had Arabian with lower req some time ago.

[Lemmy_Winks]

LOLOLOLOLOL

Barely skimmed any of the other posts besides original one.
I can't tell if you're trolling or not, but here goes.


Point 1

Destrier: 42 base speed, 33 base charge.

Courser: 46 base speed, 24 base charge.

4 speed difference.  9 base charge damage difference. If we use even stupid simple algebra, for the
destrier
42+33= 75 = Y = destrier (lets use this number as a "score" for total charge damage

Courser
46+24= 70 = X = courser

75>70    Destrier > Courser in terms of charge damage.

The damage system isn't even a simple linear determinant like the one I posted, but works with the same percentages across the board. A 4 speed advantage will NEVER outweigh 9 more base damage.



Point 2


Speed bonus is a double edged sword, throwing weapons, arrows and bolts all have their own distance and base damage determinants, however if the target horse is moving faster, the speed bonus will be even greater. I'm sure you can wrap your mind around this concept. If not, i suggest you stop reading and go read some picture books.

Courser: base Hp and armor 
Hp: 100
Armor: 18

Lets use another score system similar to the charge damage one,
100+18= 118 = X

Destrier base Hp and armor
Hp: 120
Armor: 27

120+27= 147 = Y

147> 118

Y > X

Destrier > Courser

More hp and armor coupled with less speed, 42, compared to the coursers 46, which means less speed bonus when hit with melee or ranged weapons, means the destrier has survivability beyond that of the coursers in a duke it out take ranged hits test.


Point 3

Balancing the game around the most successful players in a specific class is an excellent way to kill the game.
You do understand this don't you?

Point 4

As if it even mattered for my argument at all, but I thought i'd post it anyways,

I play with a piece of shit laptop that runs me around 10-30 fps 99% of the time when playing, on top of that 80-95 range, ping and a wireless mouse.
Also I wear the same armor, all the time. People love to single me out and gun for me, with whatever ranged weapon or melee weapon, it may be.

Here comes the big E-peen cumshot
*Warning Arrogant Statement Incoming*

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If I had low ping and steadily high fps, I would completely annihilate battle servers even more than I already do. 55-2? that suddenly becomes 70-0
hahaha I usually get 40 percent of my kills on foot. Which leads me to another point, with all my handicaps i'm better than every person that plays Cavalry on a regular basis on foot, except for Dan_CHEATS. Who is better than me on foot than me fasho.

LOLOLOLL


Will read other posts when done studying for math test. God I hate math, but only one more semester of it, after

Huey this looks more like arithmetic than algebra, the variables go inside of the equation not just the solution.

Anyways for your damage argument, there is a 9% difference in speed between a desteriter and courser. We dont see speed in CRPG, but in native ive hit for over 200% speed bonus on  horses that arent extremly fast. If we just used 200% which is not as high as a courser actually hits, you have 200% damage increase for courser and 182% damage increase for destriter.

27 *2 = 54 and 27 * 1.82 is about 49 for a difference of 5 damage. Charge bonus is not pure damage itself. A person isnt just going to take 33 charge damage when trampled, if your even remotly armored its not going to do much damage at all. Charge will hurt an archer, but you can one shot an archer with just the lance. Not to mention people are only trampled sometimes. If you applied this logic to all horses you would come to the conclusion that plated chargers do the most damage which isnt true. Plated charger riders never kill very many people and always do poorly, the charge hurts somewhat but the lance does so much more damage than any charge does its not compare-able.

Speed bonus in terms of damage to you is relativly meaningless, if your running with almost any horse and get hit youll almost certainly die. A courser may take more damage due to the speed but that may not be enough to kill it, doing 95% dmg to a courser and 90% damage to a destriter is meaningless especially in a cav fight, it takes 2 shots to kill both horses either way. It is similar for arrows with it taking about 3-4 arrows to kill a horse depending on various circumstances.

In terms of armor, i never claimed that a courser is more durable than a destriter, i havnt been comparing a courser to a destriter in particular. A courser even though it is weaker than a desetriter is sitll stronger than an arabian, despite the fact that an arabian costs more. I was talking about survability, which i factor in the speed of the horse to its ability to survie.

A horse as fast as a coursr can outrun and get away from any cav and can quickly move out of range of archers shooting at them. Not to mention its a lot harder to hit a faster target with a bow and arrow. The fact that a horse as physically weak as the courser commonly survives to the end of the round if the team wins is an indicator how much speed helps.

Balancing the game around the best players is a good idea. A new player would pick whatever random horse he thought was cool, and experienced player knows what horse is the best horse and they will pick that horse (why would you deliberately ride a horse you thought was shit). They know what is best and therefore is overpowered.

You also mentioned your games getting 50+ kills and what not, and ive seen other courser players score in the 40s. Ive never seen anyone whose ridden any other horse get into the 40s, or really even close. The most non courser horse kills ive seen is around 33 i believe. That is a huge difference. The coursers speed also enables it to get around the battle field faster to make more attacks on enemies  which is the biggest strength of cavalry.

You can say its the skill of the players, but that only confirms the fact that the best and most knowledgle riders use them, which confirms that they are the best horse. I doubt anyone seriously believes that number of kills could be attainted with any other horse. And as ive told others if you didnt think the courser was the best lancer horse you wouldn't ride one.

And odin i dont know what your talking about you have followed me around to several of my big threads in an attempt to troll me. But all your doing is keeping this thread alive so that more people can see it and ask themselves if they think the courser is overpowered and needs to be nerfed again (im sure you all were all in speaking out against a courser nerfing the last time it happened). Its ironic that you and othres believe im trolling when i am making actual arguments and the vast majority of you are responding with troll comments like derp zomg nerf yourself.

[Son Of Odin]

Shut it lemmy, this isn't nerf courser thread anymore. It's buff/not buff arabian warhorse- thread now

[Brrrak]

Nerf all horses with louder hoofbeats.

[Spanish]

This survivablity thing is stupid it's not based on the horse but on the riders knowledge of how best to use his horse. Rohypnol rides an Arabian and regularly survives an entire round and the Arabian is quite a bit more fragile. I think I've said this already but charging at an archer who can aim with any of the light horses usually ends getting your horse shot out from under you. Point is even if I have a courser charging into a mob of spears I'm probably going to get poked and die. Any good cav player can keep his horse alive and be effective so stop whining and why dont you ask itchy or aderyn which horse they have trouble shooting.

[BADPLAYERold]

Balancing the game around the best players is a good idea. A new player would pick whatever random horse he thought was cool, and experienced player knows what horse is the best horse and they will pick that horse (why would you deliberately ride a horse you thought was shit). They know what is best and therefore is overpowered.

You also mentioned your games getting 50+ kills and what not, and ive seen other courser players score in the 40s. Ive never seen anyone whose ridden any other horse get into the 40s, or really even close. The most non courser horse kills ive seen is around 33 i believe. That is a huge difference. The coursers speed also enables it to get around the battle field faster to make more attacks on enemies  which is the biggest strength of cavalry.

You can say its the skill of the players, but that only confirms the fact that the best and most knowledgle riders use them, which confirms that they are the best horse. I doubt anyone seriously believes that number of kills could be attainted with any other horse. And as ive told others if you didnt think the courser was the best lancer horse you wouldn't ride one.

heres just 4 images of me proving you wrong ive got more if you want them (3 on cataphract 1 on warhorse)

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and also heavy cav/destrier is different from the courser, with a courser you probably would get more kills but your KDR would be worse because you die easier and in my opinion KDR>total kills

[Cris]

In terms of armor, i never claimed that a courser is more durable than a destriter, i havnt been comparing a courser to a destriter in particular. A courser even though it is weaker than a desetriter is sitll stronger than an arabian, despite the fact that an arabian costs more. I was talking about survability, which i factor in the speed of the horse to its ability to survie.

A horse as fast as a coursr can outrun and get away from any cav and can quickly move out of range of archers shooting at them. Not to mention its a lot harder to hit a faster target with a bow and arrow. The fact that a horse as physically weak as the courser commonly survives to the end of the round if the team wins is an indicator how much speed helps.

Balancing the game around the best players is a good idea. A new player would pick whatever random horse he thought was cool, and experienced player knows what horse is the best horse and they will pick that horse (why would you deliberately ride a horse you thought was shit). They know what is best and therefore is overpowered.

You also mentioned your games getting 50+ kills and what not, and ive seen other courser players score in the 40s. Ive never seen anyone whose ridden any other horse get into the 40s, or really even close. The most non courser horse kills ive seen is around 33 i believe. That is a huge difference. The coursers speed also enables it to get around the battle field faster to make more attacks on enemies  which is the biggest strength of cavalry.

You can say its the skill of the players, but that only confirms the fact that the best and most knowledgle riders use them, which confirms that they are the best horse. I doubt anyone seriously believes that number of kills could be attainted with any other horse. And as ive told others if you didnt think the courser was the best lancer horse you wouldn't ride one.

Lol you make me laugh... why can't you get around your head -----------------> Unarmoured good horses:

-Courser is the fast one, its designed to hit and run, run far far away after hittings. That is its purpose, if you don't like it its your problems
-Arabian is agile horse, designed for close combat and dodging with ease.
-Destrier is the hard, balanced horse.

Being able to run away with a courser is the whole point of it. It doesnt turn well and if you hit right (its speed increasing damage) it dies really quickly. If you dont want courses running away from you, well get one yourself. Crying about courser's speed is like saying that its unfair that shields stop arrows, its idiotic at best.

You wont find a HA much more experienced than me in the game, and I tell you, coursers are really easy to shoot. Arabian is by hard the hardest to shoot on the right hards. Also, regarding your argument about the game being balanced around the best players. Pre-level recalculation/nerf I could take on the large part of the enemy team, my team would usually win and my scores were off the charts, back then I could headshoot someone accross the map on a courser at full speed (courser speed makes the biggest reticle for a HA) - If the game would have been balanced around my build and results this would be a very different game, boring to most people.

Also, I still play HA now thats its damage sucks, i have not changed to something OPed, i play what i like and i still do well with what I like...There is a good chance that whoever is doing well in NA servers with coursers just liked that horse since ever and stuck with it, mastering it....A lot of people do really well on a courser or other horses or even just weapons. A player being good with one item doesnt mean the item is OP, maybe its that they are just very good, or you just suck at adapting to different challenges (for example, if you dont have a courser you dont follow a course around without thinking, you corner the courser rider so that he cant scape. If he is going for you, you out manuver him - It can be done, easly done for experience riders).

Also, LOL 40+ kills with a courser on the horse? Haha please tell those players to come to EU1 at primetime and do it. Maybe take a gaming laptop to EU if they are on holiday so that their ping is better...it just doesnt happen.

I play with a courser, I love the horse, its the only reason ive retired. when playing as 1H cav (did it on an alt till i sacrificed it) the biggest amount of kills i got with an arabian warhorse, its incredibly easy to kill coursers on most maps with an arabian WH. I have done it with a Champ courser, but for score sake an arabian is best.

Furthermore, people i consider good riders (ive got a pretty good idea since ive played cav all my crpg life - which is just after the very very very first wipe) do well with all horses. Armoured and un armoured. Horses are balanced. If anything too expensive to upkeep.

[Overdriven]

Not to mention its a lot harder to hit a faster target with a bow and arrow.

You've clearly never tried shooting an arabian.

-Courser is the fast one, its designed to hit and run, run far far away after hittings. That is its purpose, if you don't like it its your problems
-Arabian is agile horse, designed for close combat and dodging with ease.
-Destrier is the hard, balanced horse.

This, this and this.

You also mentioned your games getting 50+ kills and what not, and ive seen other courser players score in the 40s. Ive never seen anyone whose ridden any other horse get into the 40s, or really even close. The most non courser horse kills ive seen is around 33 i believe. That is a huge difference. The coursers speed also enables it to get around the battle field faster to make more attacks on enemies  which is the biggest strength of cavalry.

Where are Kerrigan, Maganda and Leed when you need them?

[Tears of Destiny]

I can't speak for other range, but for me the Arabian is the absolute hardest horse to take down if the rider does not get lazy and keeps dodging the entire map never assuming he is safe.

[Huey Newton]

Still can't tell if you're trolling or just have no understanding of how this game works

[Spanish]

So we should buff Arabian cuz its easy to shoot since it can't out run arrows and has less armor than a courser and costs more upkeep and riding. It's so sad my Champion Arabian is so useless in comparison to the Destrier and especially the courser.

[Mlekce]

So we should buff Arabian cuz its easy to shoot since it can't out run arrows and has less armor than a courser and costs more upkeep and riding. It's so sad my Champion Arabian is so useless in comparison to the Destrier and especially the courser.

That horse almoust every time garant you kill when you attacking aware other cav or inf with any weapon instead of pike and long spear.
That horse need more resistance to dmg,but also stats need to be nefed.

[Mlekce]

About courser i used that horse and it only pourpose is to backstab inf or kill archers,or backstab unaware cav with slower horse. Maybie HA could use it to piss off other cav,but for other stuff it is complete crap.
Speed isn't important,when you slow down you get kills. Maneuver,hit points and acceleration is what is important,and courser fail at everything.
With that speed i can't dodge anything,but with my champ rouncey i dodge moust of things. Only horses that are worth of money and looms are destrier,rouncey and maybie arabian warhorse. I didnt used armored horses so i am talking about light cav.

[Son Of Odin]

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About courser i used that horse and it only pourpose is to backstab inf or kill archers,or backstab unaware cav with slower horse. Maybie HA could use it to piss off other cav,but for other stuff it is complete crap.
Speed isn't important,when you slow down you get kills. Maneuver,hit points and acceleration is what is important,and courser fail at everything.
With that speed i can't dodge anything,but with my champ rouncey i dodge moust of things. Only horses that are worth of money and looms are destrier,rouncey and maybie arabian warhorse. I didnt used armored horses so i am talking about light cav.

I maybe wouldn't be that radical, but yeah courser ain't anything special. It ain't shit, but it is not the best either. Every horse has it's purpose. Well maybe palfrey and sumpter don't have any purpose but still . Backstabbing slower horses... hmm maybe but doesn't really work too well on others than sumpter, palfrey and unloomed rouncey etc.. Backstabbing destrier is not easy and more difficult if you try to backstab arabians. The speed difference isn't just big enough.

[Mlekce]

I mean backstabbing like i ride to attack archer and i am unaware that someone is behind me and he stab my horse or me. They are deadly in combination with other cav because if i try to dodge courser other cav may get a chance to attack me.
Half of maps in EU1 are some cind of towns,villages and courser is terrible choice for that maps. There are also some maps like glacier valley and courser is not good option for that also,only good maps for courser are random plains where is not many obstacles,there is a lot of space and you can put your speed in some use.
Just look at prices for +3 coursers. they are like 1350-1400k it tells something about that horse.