Slow combat down even more? No thanks.
I was thinking, could the weight of all armours in the game be increased significantly (1.5x - 2x)They did it in Vikingr.
no that's the point, make it more advantageous for people to take lighter armours. It wouldn't slow combat down, just reduce the crutch.
Also, no such thing as armor crutch really.+3 heavy armor, +3 gloves and voila, you get a fast tincan. And while you can kill them however you like 1 on 1, when a whole crowd of 'em coming at you, not much you can do but run.
ps Tor is a nub
+3 heavy armor, +3 gloves and voila, you get a fast tincan. And while you can kill them however you like 1 on 1, when a whole crowd of 'em coming at you, not much you can do but run.
^ this.
It can take 5 or 6 decent hits to kill someone who has 60 armour (which can be achieved at ~~21 weight of gloves + body armour (+3), which when combined with 6-8 athletics still gives a really fast movement speed). Wouldn't the game just be more fun if it took 4 hits to kill average joe instead of 6 ?
+3 heavy armor, +3 gloves and voila, you get a fast tincan.
If it takes you 6 hits to kill the average guy, you're doing it wrong. And it seems to be that you're complaining about looms more than armor. It's not that big of a bonus to armor (it used to be ridiculous) but it also takes 6 gens to get there.
Also, these changes would only hurt agi builds and wouldn't do anything to strength builds whatsoever. Due to everything in this game being percentile-based, weight increases hurt high athletics characters MUCH more than people with lower athletics. Also if you have high athletics, you usually have lower strength and so do not benefit much from heavy armor.
ok im not that bothered about looms, what i mean is just the 'average armour level' if you want to call it that. Look at native melee combat, average armour level is ~~ 25, weapons rarely bounce, it takes ~~2-3 hits to kill someone. Then look at melee combat in crpg, the 'average armour level' is a lot higher (i might say 50 at a guess, gloves and body), weapons often bounce and it takes a lot more hits to kill people. This crutch just detracts from the gameplay
Also i realise capping the ATH at 5 would be a bad idea, i just was saying that so that we wouldn't get a situation where armour was nerfed so everyone went 9 ath agi builds and ran around like sonic or something.
If you're bouncing hits a lot, you're doing something wrong. Even with 5 ps and a sword I rarely bounce on plate. If I do, it's because I made a mistake.
Also, just for the record all my armor is loomed. I have 55 body armor. I die in 1 or 2 hits. If I wore less armor, I would always die in 1. If armor was reduced, I would basically be forced to go a strength heavy build just to not die whenever a teammate hits me in the back.
You can't compare CRPG to Native just because of the build differences. In Native, everyone is the same. In CRPG people can have vastly different builds and the devs try to balance things around that. Heavy armor in this game isn't that great. It's sooooo slow. I'd much rather fight some guy in plate than some balanced build wearing light-medium armor. With my high athletics I can run around that plate guy all day long. Also if you use a pierce weapon, it pretty much invalidates their armor anyway.
As it stands, armor isn't really a big deal. And increasing armor weight only hurts agi builds. Nothing else.
Also, just for the record all my armor is loomed. I have 55 body armor. I die in 1 or 2 hits.I wonder how you do that.
I wonder how you do that.
As a heavy armour str based (24-18 ^^) 2hander i didn't give a fuck about 1hander hits since they glance or deal shitty damage so i didn't even bother to block and continue my spam .
cRPG is clearly biased toward heavy armor
I have to agree here. While OPs suggestion on capping ATH is complete lol, I'd increase the weight of the heavier-heaviest (around transitional+) armors. Heaviest armors don't slow you down enough, if you're 6 or 7 ATH you still run quite fast in them.
What I'm trying to say is that there's more advantage to taking heavy armor than light/medium. Yes I know more upkeep blahblah noone cares about that really.
when I had a +3 heavy armour my score was the triple of what it is now that I am using light armour.I am glad that you are suffering now just as I am, xuntsuke!
It's very easy to do.
Raise the requirements of all armors. Right now, the highest requirement for an armor is 16, which allows you even to do an agi build (18/21) at lvl 30 that can wear the maximum armor in game, having 7 ath, allowing you to be efficiently fast.
Raise the requirements so the milanese is 27 requirement, and scale down all of the other armors requirement in range to this. This way, at lvl 30 you have to make a 27/12 build at best to wear maximum armor, making you slow as hell (as well as not having much wm). Ath build with 18 str should be able to wear medium/heavy armors (heavy kuyak/sarranid guard at best, if not lower).
Same for weapons, the requirement for maximum damage weapons should be around 24/27 str and not 18 as it is right now (flamberge definately 27, 24 for poleaxes, glaive, danish, german, etc) , thus forcing you to go the str way to have a high damage weapon, so you become a high damage output character, but slow.
The changes should be in the way for you to choose between being fast or strong. Right now, you can be effectively both things (wear highest armor without making a str build ... which is senseless) with a balanced build.
I always thought that is senseless in this game that you can use top items just having half of the top reachable amount of an attribute that serves as requirement. Is the only time i saw this in a game and it's really weird. It should be about 70-80% of that, not half.
Won't solve the problem, most of the guys in heavy armour are rocking fat stranth build not agi. The bulk of them don't have any points in MW and a bare minimum in ATH. 21/15 24/15 are common as balls on men.For me they're not the problem, they usually are slow, and swing slow.
Don't like that idea either.
Why should I be forced to get a high strength build to use heavy armour?
What about shielders? Want to force every shielder to go 27/12 or something just because they sometimes want to wear heavy stuff?
I'd say raise them to 18 strength, not more. But change the effect that heavy armour has. Slower movement and less wpf, so you are all in all slower.
I wasn't talking about being most efficient or whatsoever.
You know some people take a certain gear cause they like the look or just want to have fun with it?
And what you say is rubbish. I'm able to take a heavy roundshield or maybe even a huscarlshield if I want to (although I don't use it cause it's ugly) and I'm able to swing a sword around all the time. Does that mean to you I'm too weak to wear platearmour? :lol:
Thx alot for making me laugh :)
For me they're not the problem, they usually are slow, and swing slow.
People wearing transitional and higher with an agi build are really the problem, tanks as well, but much more quicker.
Yes they are the problem, because they can spam almost as good as you do :lol:
Sorry Shodan, but I'll never take word of any kinngrimm's clone seriously. You are the ones who crutch this mod using fast and spammy 1h+shield builds.
On-topic:
I'm using two types of gear, 69 body armor medium plate (fully loomed) and 24 body armor rags (non loomed). I also have 8 ath. While I usually have better scores in loomed armor there are times when I have same scores using light gear.
Thing about light gear is that you can't afford mistake. Not just mistake in fight, you have to move very carefully if you want to avoid: random projectiles, friendly random projectiles, enemy and friendly horse bumps and mostly friendly players whose fighting style is "mindless spam". Once you overcome all those difficulties, game is almost easy as if you're using heavy gear.
The thing that bothers me the most while I'm using light gear is the fact that every, even the slightest friendly bump chops 20-25% of my HP. If devs decide to lower that, it will be much easier to play as light armored player.
While I'm in heavy armor I'm strong and feel invincible and therefore make plenty mistakes, like fighting groups of 4 and more players on my own on enemy territory, rushing into archers nest and such stupid things.
In light armor I'm a lot more careful, and sometimes I'm almost able to win round on my own (I said almost, because there is always one ranged guy left to shoot me before I annihilate his team).
Fun fact: do you know that 75% of time when I'm overwhelmed by enemy melee infantry (like 5 or more of them) I die to ranged (xbow). I'm not making this up...
Corsair, I like you a lot more when you were 2H. Now you're just another useless 1h/thrower combo build made for teamplay blah blah blah...
In light armor I'm a lot more careful, and sometimes I'm almost able to win round on my own (I said almost, because there is always one ranged guy left to shoot me before I annihilate his team).
Yes they are the problem, because they can spam almost as good as you do :lol:
Sorry Shodan, but I'll never take word of any kinngrimm's clone seriously. You are the ones who crutch this mod using fast and spammy 1h+shield builds.
On-topic:
I'm using two types of gear, 69 body armor medium plate (fully loomed) and 24 body armor rags (non loomed). I also have 8 ath. While I usually have better scores in loomed armor there are times when I have same scores using light gear.
Thing about light gear is that you can't afford mistake. Not just mistake in fight, you have to move very carefully if you want to avoid: random projectiles, friendly random projectiles, enemy and friendly horse bumps and mostly friendly players whose fighting style is "mindless spam". Once you overcome all those difficulties, game is almost easy as if you're using heavy gear.
The thing that bothers me the most while I'm using light gear is the fact that every, even the slightest friendly bump chops 20-25% of my HP. If devs decide to lower that, it will be much easier to play as light armored player.
While I'm in heavy armor I'm strong and feel invincible and therefore make plenty mistakes, like fighting groups of 4 and more players on my own on enemy territory, rushing into archers nest and such stupid things.
In light armor I'm a lot more careful, and sometimes I'm almost able to win round on my own (I said almost, because there is always one ranged guy left to shoot me before I annihilate his team).
Fun fact: do you know that 75% of time when I'm overwhelmed by enemy melee infantry (like 5 or more of them) I die to ranged (xbow). I'm not making this up...
Corsair, I like you a lot more when you were 2H. Now you're just another useless 1h/thrower combo build made for teamplay blah blah blah...
Oh, on a side note leshma, i gave up on my 18/21 2h char because it was boring. I won all my duels
Time to pick better opponents then?duelling is totally different on crpg to native, the combat speed is set to slow, so no one's block will ever break from basics, so you have to take constant chance moves, double attacks chambers kicks etc ... see this - http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?topic=174526.0
Wouldn't the game just be more fun if it took 4 hits to kill average joe instead of 6 ?True dat, but this was really the best way you could think of to achieve that?
True dat, but this was really the best way you could think of to achieve that?
what's wrong with it ? It'd mean heavier armours like full plate would be used from horseback (like IRL), and people would have to take less armour to keep their current speed.
Native dueling is braindead, everyone just spamming feints (sometimes scripted I guess) and because of it they can't see shit and you step in and kill them in one hit. On the other hand atleast chambers work more often.
Most of the native dueling community is so dead set on performing as confusing feints as they can that they fall to simple holds or double attacks.
see this - http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?topic=174526.0lol, 'sair, just found this in your thread:
You also forgot to add that the Great Sword is for wankers and cowards :PThis comes from a guy who now uses an even bigger monstrosity of a GS :lol: (but seriously, GS has ruined Native duel servers and tournaments by making weapon choice so homogenous, beta saw a much greater variation)
- Ability to Duel ( the most important)
- Situational Awareness (what you were just describing)
- Ability to work in a team ( who cares about team?)
I've just gone from the Sarranid Guard Armor to the Black (landsknecht) Armor and back because the extra armor was seriously hardly noticeable
Exactly my point that medium armors are preferrable stat-wise over medium-heavy (4 torso armor for almost 25% increase in weight!). And leg armor makes less of a difference.
It's not that I'm surprised, I only tried Black Armor for looks.
The main problem with this is that going light armor barely affects your survivability, and makes you overall deadlier. Your survivability might even improve with light armor, due to the gigantic speed and acceleration.
I say introduce a fixed naked weight that would reduce the speed and acceleration no matter what you wear. Reduces the incentives to go excessively light and be a dancer whore, but would barely affect medium and heavy armor. Also, increase the speed of the game globally.
True but Sarranid Guard Armor - Black Armor comparison isn't fair as it's an extreme case. Sarranid Guard Armor has more body than leg and Black Armor has more leg than body armor compared to other armor in that range.Agreed, but I'd personally choose a Kuyak over a Coat of Plates anyday, just to use a different example. Maybe I wouldn't before armor was last nerfed but today I definitely would. But I also have speed bias, though I still think you get most armor for the least weight and upkeep in the medium range (which again doesn't mean I don't think plate armors should weigh more than currently).
As of current, you get a large advantage in teamfights having +3 heavy armour and a large weapon. Some might call this crutch. You also get a decent advantage taking no armour with reasonably high ATH.Pierce and blunt weaps are good against heavy armor. Also is agility a 'crutch'? Are weapons a 'crutch'? (let's use bare fists).
I was thinking, could the weight of all armours in the game be increased significantly (1.5x - 2x)ALL armors or just the heavier ones? If all weights were increased I'm sure a lot of players would find their current builds in need of change, or maybe they would just not wear armor. Or maybe they would continue to 'crutch' anyway and just go full strength since they would be so slow anyway.