cRPG
cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Torben on December 26, 2011, 04:13:16 am
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so i had a few rounds in which i was handling multiple foes on the ground quite well after being dehorsed, just to be stabbed lanced slashed bumped and killed by friendly cav trying to help me.
simple question: do you want help in those 3+ vs 1 situations or should cav gtfo? I personally will try to honor the outcome of this vote and be even more cautious in the future.
edit: its happening for multiple rounds now. i will vote gtfo, as long as u aint sure that u aint touchin me.
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There should be special voice commands with a huge !!!!!!!!!!!!!! above your head, so that teammates can se who and where says things.
Imagine the teamwork capability if people aren't stupid.
Cav guy rollin' in with his lance, just escaped from a ranged spam area, sees a melee guy overwhelmed by 3 others, melee guy says:
Help me!
Cavalry is notified and is approaching you now.
Too bad most cav are kill hungry bastards, who cannot aim. Back in the day when I was a lancer I did pretty "surgical" teamsaves, but it was risky to do that.
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Depends who's on the horse
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Drive over them and knock over - yep. Try to lance the guy I'm currently fighting - fuck no, it usually ends up with a) me being lanced b) me being knocked over c) me being finished off by th guy I was fighting.
In short, yes for cav support, no for close range cav support, aka. you go in only when you're 100% sure you won't bump or lance friendlies.
Voted for gtfo since most cav players I see are just frag hunters for whom teammates are but another kind of obstacles.
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Drive over them and knock over - yep. Try to lance the guy I'm currently fighting - fuck no, it usually ends up with a) me being lanced b) me being knocked over c) me being finished off by th guy I was fighting.
In short, yes for cav support, no for close range cav support, aka. you go in only when you're 100% sure you won't bump or lance friendlies.
Voted for gtfo since most cav players I see are just frag hunters for whom teammates are but another kind of obstacles.
I pretty much agree with this. It all depends on the cav player and if they're willing to help the inf to the point where they won't get a kill (knocking over enemies, pretending to charge in to distract the enemy, etc). I voted yes but only when its obvious I need help and when the cav isn't an idiot.
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Personally I like it when I charge into melee and friendly cav are bumping them all over the place.
If the cav is generally a good player or not a retard then I can accept those times where I die due to friendly bump
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I personally assist those being attacked, I come in lance hot. I am quite precise, as I go into FP and never miss a lance, or at least never kill a team mate.
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AHAHHAHA, "help". I honestly don't know what that word means, but I assume it describes some weird concept that's entirely beyond my comprehension, or interest.
How can I get kills if I take time to avoid crushing my teammates? I mean, its nice that they're distracting the enemy for me so I can sweep in and heroically smite all of the baddies in their anuses, but for them to have the gall to actually be in my way, as some sort of obstacle that needs circumvention...
Fuck that, circumvention sounds too much like circumcision. I'm not about to trim my penis in order to spare my teammates the honor of being crushed beneath my beautiful, champion courser's hooves.
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Seriously though, I'm almost as bad as huey with TKing my teammates. There are moments, however, when I use my horse riding l33tness in order to achieve good, rather than rack up the kills. It does make my heart feel warm and fuzzy to knock down a bad guy, and glancing back see a teammate kill the downed enemy.
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It's all fine, as long as the cav let me know its there first and just don't simply trample in.
If you know you have backup it's can be very useful. You can step back, give the cav space to do the bumps and whatever.. But you have to be aware that there is cav there with the intent to help out. Because I have a short sword I very often get involved in circling enemy players in stead of backpeddling, specially shielders..
If the cav has a good understanding of the situation and options of the infantry player, his speed and way of fighting, let his presence be known in a safe way, then it is of course very helpful..
Nothing is as frustrating as to be bumped by friendly cav in the wrong moment though.
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Nothing is as frustrating as to be bumped by friendly cav in the wrong moment though.
Say what ??
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I HELP A LOT :mrgreen:
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Yes, as an archer it's lovely when you get cav support. I dislike those cavs just running away from me when I got people chasing me.
Even if the vote says "yes" I still expect you to help me Torben :wink:
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i try to help the infantry with bumps, but i am so very clumsy that i often end up bumpng the good guys xD.
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Better support then no support.
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I do like cav support. But NOT with lances!
Cav riding in to 'support' with a couched lance, or just a slow thrust , is highly likely to hit me in the head due to the duracell-rabbit-happy-dreamland-speed of melee combat movement.
One-hander cav is highly welcome to support me in melee though, since they have more precise attacks. Lance-cav better stick to try to bump/horse-charge the enemy infantry in those situations.
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personally, i try to bump and attack the enemy, and aalot of times i bump the enemy and semi-bump my teamate, but then my teammate still has an advantage of hitting the guy once. and it is risky, but even a minor stab from behind can make a gap for your teammate, so i ussually try to help my teammate.
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I'm with Torben, I'll also try to honor this after the voting is over. I usually try to just bump the enemies so my allies can get a free hit in there. If I'm sure I won't hit the teammate I'll also put a swing of my morningstar in the clusterfuck. But still, accidents do happen sometimes :)
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What's the difference from getting slashed by an inf. teammate trying to gank the enemy with you (he can be a good player too), getting shot by a friendly archer trying to help/being greedy, or getting teamlanced/teambumped by a friendly cav ? It's all the same to me and it happens , i don't see how cavalry is any different here except for people think somehow it should be + it generates more hatred and rage.
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It's all fine, as long as the cav let me know its there first and just don't simply trample in.
If you know you have backup it's can be very useful. You can step back, give the cav space to do the bumps and whatever.. But you have to be aware that there is cav there with the intent to help out. Because I have a short sword I very often get involved in circling enemy players in stead of backpeddling, specially shielders..
If the cav has a good understanding of the situation and options of the infantry player, his speed and way of fighting, let his presence be known in a safe way, then it is of course very helpful..
Nothing is as frustrating as to be bumped by friendly cav in the wrong moment though.
Pretty much what Thomek said. I always prefer to fight alone against blobs though, but when shit is about to hit the fan, a good cav player can be helpful :rolleyes:
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normally when cav helps me its teambumb or teamhit.
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If you know you have backup it's can be very useful. You can step back, give the cav space to do the bumps and whatever.. But you have to be aware that there is cav there with the intent to help out. Because I have a short sword I very often get involved in circling enemy players in stead of backpeddling, specially shielders..
This is the core of the problem.
As an inf player, I'm always on the lookout for friendly cav because they sure can help me. When I see one, I take a few steps back to let him kill/bump my enemy. As a cav, when I see someone circling around enemies, I just go and seek something else to do. Tornado fighters don't want help from cav. I would even say they don't want help at all since helping one of those circling fairies is also difficult as inf or ranged.
The best way to avoid being trampled by friendly cav/shot by ally ranged/hit by inf dudes is to stop the duracell-rabbit-happy-dreamland-speed
madness.
Cav are trucks. Even +3 arab warhorse users. They can't avoid a collision if you throw yourself under the horse at the last moment. They also have to time their weapon release very early (especially lancers). If you have unpredictable movement, you will die to friendly cav more often. Try to give us some space when you see us. You'll get free bumped enemies.
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depends on cav skill.
if he can do something without hitting you - why not?
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As both a cav and inf player I find one of the best benefits of cav support in a clusterfuck to be the fact that the cav is there. Just having the cav circling around is enough to distract one or two gangbangers. And if they don't defend themselves from me, I just hit/bump somebody. The worse problem is going high speed into a clusterfuck. If the cav player is going slow they'll be able to time it right. Otherwise, they're just adding to the general clusterfuck.
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What's the difference from getting slashed by an inf. teammate trying to gank the enemy with you (he can be a good player too), getting shot by a friendly archer trying to help/being greedy, or getting teamlanced/teambumped by a friendly cav ? It's all the same to me and it happens , i don't see how cavalry is any different here except for people think somehow it should be + it generates more hatred and rage.
Because cav and archer more then often gets you outright killed (arrows due to stunstagger and being unexpected, cav due to bump and outright damage). Their tk:s also generally feel more stupid since they're not in the thick of the chaotic melee but rather from a distance decide to "go for it".
@ OP, I prefer no cav support from most players. The most effective type in my opinion is just when they *hover around* and kill any enemy caught out from the main battle blob.
Of course there are exceptions such as when you're surrounded by 6+ enemies or something (the exceptions to the exception are teXas and Maganda, you two ALWAYS gtfo my melee), but in general I prefer little to no cav support.
Oh, and archers trying to *help* should just gtfo in all situations tbh. Shoot the thrower a bit further away, shoot the cav that's going to backrape me, it's much appreciated. But for the mother of baconaise DON'T SHHOT INTO THE BLOODY MELEE! I've lost count to how many times I've died to some stupid archer trying to farm kills or whatever from my melee blob.
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I only try to help the teammate if I know the teammate isn't very good in melee, I don't try to help anyone who can deal with the situation themself.
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The answer to this question is very simple:
depends on cav skill.
If he can do something without hitting you - why not?
Depends on skill and situation. Helping 1 ally vs 3 enemies is usually very easy for a cavalry player.
What I find hardest as a lancer is to give help in 1v1 sitations. How hard it is depends on my teamate rather than the enemy.
If my teamate is fighting close to the enemy and moving around alot I usually just let him have his "duel" and ride away.
If he wants my help he will get it and I rarely fail to give help.
If I know that the player dueling is a good one, I usually just ride away instantly to give help somewhere else.
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Torben, you can support me anytime in a clusterfuck. You are a good, considerate, cavalry player, who will really do his best to not fuck up his teammates. There are others who I'd rather not have support me, but they would do it anyway, because they are morons.
Chase for example. He does well as a cav, but is horrible around teammates. It has happened repeadetly that he tried to kill an enemy, but bumped me or stabbed me in the face. I wish I had footage of that one time. Horrible!
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How about the infantry in a cluster positions himself to give his cav team mate a chance at the opponents back? Too many times I've seen the inf dancing around in a circle, making things tough for his cav help.
Excellent post Riddaren
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It depends completely on the cavalry man, there are very few horsemen I respect as players (as people is a different matter) because they just cannot play. It's the same issue as archers, if you don't know what you're doing, then don't shoot into melee. If you can't ride a horse properly, don't ride through melee.
Sure, even experienced riders will make mistakes or won't judge irratic sudden movements from allies and will accidentally kill, and sure, that'll piss the hell out of the ally who died but it's easier forgiven if for example, you yourself Torben, teamkilled me, I'd swear and call you names under my breath but I would forgive you quick enough just remembering the number of times you've helped me out.
As I say, there are very few cav that I would trust to help me, same as there are few archers/xbowmen who I would trust to do the same. It comes down to control, judgement and generally just the players skill against the ratio of "helping that guy" to "taking the kill".
I know it's a team game, but is there a point in attacking a peasant vs a knight when you know that the peasant doesn't have a hope in hell of surviving? No, because the Knight can dispatch the peasant and get on, you're more useful to go somewhere else and help.
Hope that makes sense, it's rather a grey area, but certainly, if you have the ability to do something, do it, if you don't, don't.
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Whenever I notice a teammate of any class trying to "help" me I immediately switch over to secondary role of trying to get the enemy to expose his back to the other guy. The only reason I put help in quotations is because more often then not the help involves team-wounding if I don't notice them and just continue on my merry way because I do play like a bit of a spaz sometimes and it's equally to avoid risk of wounding my team-mates also.
Seriously though, this has happened plenty of times, if you're cav and you're trying to help; please do it from an angle I can see you at or at least make your presence known before you decide to try to lance the the front of the guy I'm fighting
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They should help, but they should let people know of their presence first. If I don't know about my friendly cav it can often end up with him getting me killed. If not, I'll make space for him to bump/lance, and me to finish the enemy off. Please don't come couching in on a champion courser hoping to hit the enemy, without thinking of risks either. :)
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I would prefer not to have any cavalry help most of the time, unless I of course the cavalry is a 22nd, Torben or Tommy. This is due to the fact that in melee a friendly bump to the enemy won't help much since in a group fight I have to control the whole group of enemies, and I won't get chance to slash the downed enemy anyway. In 1on1 the previously mentioned cavalry I know to be team trained cavalry (there will be others, I just don't know them personally).
There are exceptions however, if I appear to have acknowledged I have misjudged the group and I have started back-pedalling, I want help from cavalry. Even if the cavalry just bumps a few guys and leaves, it can make that overwhelming swarm small enough to kill. Also in 1 on 1 with good duellists I would prefer some cavalry support , but I have to know the friendly cavalry is there so I can position myself appropriately.
There are also indications cavalry should check on before deciding to charge, as I mentioned long durations of back-pedalling implies a friendly is worried and also makes it easier for the cavalry to lance the engaged enemies. Further indications for a good assist/kill is how erratic the friendly player is moving, if they are spinning around like a teacup ride, they probably aren't the best people to be helping. Lastly some players just cannot work with a team, Phase for example will happily wipe out an entire team alone, but will do much worse if a friendly cav tries to assist or be a ninja.
To summarise; yes I want your help if you are a good cavalryman who knows he/she can get a kill without killing me, if your name is MAGANDA and you don't care for the safety of your team then gtfo.
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I'll make space for him to bump/lance, and me to finish the enemy off.
Thats exactly how to handle such a situation.
Horseman announcing presence, footman going out of his way, horseman ride the enemy down, footmen slash the enemy while hes trying to get up again. Move on to the next enemy.
Unfortunately, 85 % of crpg players dont know how to behave on the battlefield. Usually its like this: Footman-Noob dancing in front of the enemy, and cav-noob killing the wrong guy.
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I always go in for the bump. I even bump-slash 'em when i feel it's urgent enough or when there is a pretty clear shot.
I mean, in any situation where my team is getting overrun and is losing, desperate measures are justified. Okay, there is a 10% chance i behead my dear teammate instead... but that 90% chance for another enemy quickly dispatched is worth it in that scenario.1
The one big exception is when we're already clearly winning. Then i slow down and take less risks and try to only run in for 'helpful' bumps. Sometimes i bump my teammates a bit aswell, but usually they are able to get up faster (slight bump instead of knockdown) and land a 'free' hit.
It's essential, imo. Horsemen bump enemies engaged in melee fights. Especially the guys that know how to block, the valuable targets, need bumping. 2
To summarize my 'cav support clusterfuck dogma':
- when winning -> only bump, only go for safe bumps
- when equal / struggling for win -> bump and slash, try to avoid teamkills but take the risk if the opportunity presents itself
- when losing -> go all out, take big risks and try to kill those 12 enemies even though you only have 2 teammates left alive
I can understand most infantrymen's frustration with friendly cav bumping or even slashing / stabbing in fights. However, i strongly feel that, just like in a footmen-only melee, your team stands the best chance to win if you play 'dirty' and try to take any advantage you can get. An opponent bumped is usually a dead opponent if you are ready for it. At least it's a free hit.
Take the good with the bad, i'd say. If you see cav failing a lot at the 'team support bumping', don't hesitate to tell him though. Most guys will apologize and try harder not to bump you. Never slash at friendly horses though. Intentional teamattacking is not cool.
Think of it like this: cav loses most 1 vs 1 fights against skilled and aware players. However, they are much more mobile and have horsebump. Therefore, their job is to utilize their mobility and stun effect (horsebump) to disrupt an enemy and open up their defences. It's what the class is made for, really.
Good archers also shoot into melee fights. It's always a judgement call and i'm not advocating unneeded recklessness... but let's be honest: we play this game to win. If you want duels, go to the duel server. On the battle server, we stab people in the back and avoid any fair fights... at least i do. :D
Also, try and be aware of friendly cav. When done right, one cavalry can support a dozen footmen and net you many easy kills. When i'm on teamspeak with the Mercs and i'm the only cav, supporting melee with bumps and slashes is my main role (besides guarding against enemy cav with horseblocks and dealing with runners)..
Don't expect friendly cav to wait until you've seen them, because that most often also means
Concluding:
Team bumps can be annoying, but bumping is what cavalry does best. Take the good with the bad and in the end, judge friendly cavalry on their intentions, not just the results.
Edit: added conclusion and footnotes:
1Yes, i know you can probably kill that guy. However, my team is losing and you are taking too much time dueling that guy. I rush in and kill him, at you risk, sorry for that, but please know: i'm not trying to steal your kills... i'm just trying to win the round. Really! :rolleyes:
2There are guys that can easily decimate your team when left unchecked. I'm not naming names, but you know the guys i'm talking about. Those fuckers with 35-3 on half the maps they play. They can handle most players in 1 vs 1 and are still very likely to kill you teammates when left alone with a 1 vs 3 or worse. So i hover around the melee clusterfuck, wait for him to forget about me or hope he's tunnelvisioned and doesn't notice me in time and bravely ride over him. I might even slash at the guy, even though there are a couple of teammates standing around him ready to kill him. Why? Because the guy is just too damn dangerous. The higher the danger (risk of losing the round), the bigger the risks one should take, imo.
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^ What he said
It's very situational, but I try to only help if a team mate is outnumbered or I can see a clear chance at bumping the enemy that my team is 1vs1 on. Admittedly I do sometimes get greedy and go for the shot even if it's 2 vs 1 with my team winning, but fortunately I've gotten to the point where I am generally smart enough to hold my shots unless I know I have a clear chance. Not to say accidents don't happen. And if they do I usually apologise.
My favourite is when I see a friendly archer being chased by multiple inf. Charge in and run them all over and let the archer get clear away :D Either that or bump shoot them and let the archer get shots in as well, can often kill a fair few doing that.
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There should be special voice commands with a huge !!!!!!!!!!!!!! above your head, so that teammates can se who and where says things.
Imagine the teamwork capability if people aren't stupid.
Cav guy rollin' in with his lance, just escaped from a ranged spam area, sees a melee guy overwhelmed by 3 others, melee guy says:
Help me!
Cavalry is notified and is approaching you now.
Too bad most cav are kill hungry bastards, who cannot aim. Back in the day when I was a lancer I did pretty "surgical" teamsaves, but it was risky to do that.
I used to attempt to lance but quickly realized how bad it always turned out.
Whenever I'm in these situations I purely attempt to bump the enemy as that is safer than lancing and will temporarily remove one of the enemies.
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I almost always go out of my way to help friendly foot soldiers (infantry or ranged). I try to prioritize who to help based on how much trouble they are in, and how over-extended they are in relation to the rest of our team. If I assess the situation as being too risky for me to move in (too much enemy ranged or long pointy sticks, I'll likely move on to another friendly unit to help out).
Basically when I'm cavalry I try not to engage enemy cavalry (although I can if needed, that's specifically why I use a courser and heavy lance, for anti-cav). But the bulk of my kills and damage goes towards helping teammates on the ground. Unless our main infantry force is clashing with the enemies main infantry force, I'm usually on the outskirts helping small groups of our friendly troops.
Sometimes cavalry will bump you, or even stab the wrong guy. It happens, although I generally like to think it doesn't happen nearly as often as I help save or assist a friendly troop.
Cavalry are meant to help friendly ground troops, they are being completely wasted if they don't. If you're on the ground and see a cavalry playing trying to help you, don't think of it as him trying to steal your kill...we're all just trying to win the round, regardless of who gets the kill on the scoreboard. If you're a kill whore just looking for a high score, you're playing the wrong game. When I play as infantry I don't ever have even close to the kills I have as cavalry, but I usually feel like I'm being just as helpful, if not more, based on being able to assist other ground troops and collectively taking out enemies.
It can be hectic when you're on the ground, and not always easy to see that your friendly cavalry is trying to help you, but if you do notice me or another cav player trying to help, try to work with us as we're trying to work with you (try to back off an extra foot or two and we'll bump them to the ground and you can kill them, or we'll try to stab them in the back...if they turn to face us, they give their back to you).
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In general i would say no do not help me, since most cav which tryes to help me. Ends up bumping me every time. So i would rather be without a noobish cav bumping me, since i have a okay chance of getting out alive of a 3v1(ofc depends on who i ganking me).
But if its an experienced cav, which knows just a little bit about how ganks can work out, and knows where to position himself and when to charge in and help. Then yes, i would gladly take help from those.
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In general i would say no do not help me, since most cav which tryes to help me. Ends up bumping me every time. So i would rather be without a noobish cav bumping me, since i have a okay chance of getting out alive of a 3v1(ofc depends on who i ganking me).
But if its an experienced cav, which knows just a little bit about how ganks can work out, and knows where to position himself and when to charge in and help. Then yes, i would gladly take help from those.
It goes both ways man. If you're not aware of the cav trying to help, then you're likely running circles around the enemy and not giving your cav player the chance to help. If you give slightly more room for the cav they're likely to knock the enemy to the ground giving you an easy target.
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Depends on if the cav is skilled or not.
Skilled cav is your best friend. They'll bump your shielding enemies so you can stab them, draw their attention so you can stab their back, etc.
Unskilled cav will bump you like a noob.
That being said, ALL infantry can help out cavalry whether they are noob or not by:
1. Strafing to a location in which they can see their friendly cavalry, and the enemy has his back turned to them
2. Creating distance between you and your targets when cavalry closes in
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Depends on if the cav is skilled or not.
Skilled cav is your best friend. They'll bump your shielding enemies so you can stab them, draw their attention so you can stab their back, etc.
Unskilled cav will bump you like a noob.
Even the best cav will sometimes stab or bump friendlies...it's more likely to happen when your friendly infantry is either unaware or unwilling to work with the cav. Shit happens, nobody is perfect.
I like phazey's post, pretty much sums up what most "smart"/thinking horsemen do when they are alive. We are trying to constantly prioritize where the threats are coming from, and how big of a risk to take in helping teammates. Kind of like an unconscious algorithm running in our heads.
That being said, I just noticed the poll is misleading and probably not accurate. The forum topic says "do you want cav to help infantry", so I clicked "Ya" on the poll. But the poll says "GTFO" yes or no help me...
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probably not accurate. The forum topic says "do you want cav to help infantry", so I clicked "Ya" on the poll. But the poll says "GTFO" yes or no help me...
i noticed that too. well, fuck.
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gtfo?
ya 63 (50%)
no, help me! 63 (50%)
Total Members Voted: 126
Wow. o_O
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Torben, i think you might consider creating more understandable poll.
But on the topic: one of the most interesting reads i had in these forums in a while. I just recently started with cav character, for last 4 generations i was (and still i am) trying to learn how to let the infantry know i want to help, bump, or just look dangerous so their enemies would lose a guard for one sec for my teammate to attack them, while facing me, or something like that.
I even try to whistle as i approach some weird situations, but with the emote spam its hard to pay attention, and when i am on the ground aswell, i see how hard it is to see what is happening, who is approaching and the most important: what the fuck to do :mrgreen:
Sorry for all the bumps i do, sorry for accidental TH/TK, please, forgive me, i am trying to get better as cav and i appreciate your patience with me...but, god, nothing makes me feel better than when i approach a 2v1, i see my friend teammate is aware of me, he steps back, i go bump, he kills, i go bump again, he kills again, or i just kill one bump second one or something and we work out so nice together and both survive! Lovely!
This cooperation is partly based on luck and awareness of both, but god....cav is so much fun :mrgreen:
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Torben, i think you might consider creating more understandable poll.
Well, i think the outcome of this poll is the most favorable for our cause, even if it does not reflect every voters opinion.
Reading the posts, the community wants the cav man to assess the situation and base his actions upon sound judgement, still being somewhat forgiving concerning the learning curve of this class.
I am pleased with the amount of constructive replies and the over all reflection of respectful relations between the members of this community.
...but, god, nothing makes me feel better than when... he steps back, i go bump, he kills, i go bump again, he kills again ...and we work out so nice together and both survive! Lovely!
This cooperation is partly based on luck and awareness of both, but god....cav is so much fun :mrgreen:
yes, Cepeshi. The amount of teamwork cav is capable of surpasses the perception of the every day grunt, it is amazingly fun and finishing complete teams together with a capable archer or inf is one of the highest sensations.
Take home message for cav enthusiasts: be thoughtful around team members, act within your capabilities unless the situation asks for desperate measures and give the inf a chance to work with you.
a good place to close this thread.
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It won't die that easily, Torben...
ON THE SUBJECT OF CAVALRY/RANGED INFANTRY COOPERATION
In addition to cooperating nicely with melee infantry, I think it important to note that cavalry should put equal effort into working with their ranged infantry, in particular archers, in order to facilitate victory and killz for errybody.
One situation that I've noticed occurring frequently in the battle server involves cavalry riding through friendly archers' fields of fire. This often results in friendly fire, with the horse getting shot. At the very least, such behavior disrupts friendly archer's activity, either distracting them or forcing them to re-nock their arrow.
Suggested solution: cavalry should always be aware of where their team's archers and xbowmen are located, particularly in relation to where the cavalryman/women plans on attacking. Archers, too, should make sure to be aware of where friendly cavalry--and all friendly players, for that matter--are located whenever possible; the nature of cavalry, of course, makes it understandably hard to do this, what with their operating on the fringes of the fight and/or zooming in and out of the melee without warning.
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It won't die that easily, Torben...
ON THE SUBJECT OF CAVALRY/RANGED INFANTRY COOPERATION
In addition to cooperating nicely with melee infantry, I think it important to note that cavalry should put equal effort into working with their ranged infantry, in particular archers, in order to facilitate victory and killz for errybody.
One situation that I've noticed occurring frequently in the battle server involves cavalry riding through friendly archers' fields of fire. This often results in friendly fire, with the horse getting shot. At the very least, such behavior disrupts friendly archer's activity, either distracting them or forcing them to re-nock their arrow.
Suggested solution: cavalry should always be aware of where their team's archers and xbowmen are located, particularly in relation to where the cavalryman/women plans on attacking. Archers, too, should make sure to be aware of where friendly cavalry--and all friendly players, for that matter--are located whenever possible; the nature of cavalry, of course, makes it understandably hard to do this, what with their operating on the fringes of the fight and/or zooming in and out of the melee without warning.
This is really harmful to me at times. I just see a blob of allies and feel safe when I do a flyby in front of them. When I'm unlucky I literally get an arrow in the knee because I don't differentiate that much between classes of allied infantry. I think most of this burden is on the cav's shoulders, as he can avoid the friendly ranged easier than the friendly ranged can spot him.
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In addition to cooperating nicely with melee infantry, I think it important to note that cavalry should put equal effort into working with their ranged infantry, in particular archers, in order to facilitate victory and killz for errybody.
Sorry, my horse is afraid of heights, hence i cannot spend much time on roofs assisting our brave ranged :mrgreen:
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In theory I would like cav to help me out of those three-on-one situations; but in reality they always manage to lance and/or trample me rather than the three jerks trying to murder me.
So my answer is "No. Fuck off with your shitty horse".
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I enjoy playing 1h + shield Cav because I personally find it more useful for supporting my teams Infantry, I very rarely TK or get a friendly killed by bump ( shit happens sometimes, every single player no matter the build has wounded or killed team mates on accident ).
When I approach a small cluster of enemies and teamates fighting, I line myself up to pass just past the enemy, not actually through them, this way I have more time to react to my team mates movements and the enemies, if at the last moment I can see I have a clear path to bump through and slash, I will, if not I will just try to slash the enemies at the edge of the cluster where I am passing by.
I have a similiar approach to when I see a 1v1, I aim to pass by the team mate and enemy fighting, watching their movements closely, if my team mate ends up turning his back into me and/or with the enemy on the opposite side I simply break off and either find a new target or turn around to come in for another ride by. If the enemy turns around my team mate and is on my side, I will usually attempt to slash rather than bump, because bumping him would put me closer to my team mate and raise the risk of a team bump occuring, unless I can see that I have a decent amount of space to bump the enemy.
The smaller the fight, the more surgical your approach has to be to help your team mates over hurting them.
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Cav is the ultimate kiting class. Feel free to kite enemy cav close to our archers and especially throwers.
When I run my flanking missions, mostly enemy cav turns far away from me.. If you could stop them or just make them ride past me I'll be sure to plant a jarid in their face.
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90% of cavalry either lack the skill for precision in-fighting amongst teammates, or like Huey, running over teammates is part of the overall strategy to kill the enemy and a few trampled teammates are just collateral damage.
The worst are the well meaning types. "Well I go for the enemy bump first".
Umm yeah, so you bump the enemy first, then you bump me. Guess who gets up off the ground to kill the other guy first? If you are going to go charging through and bumping, BUMP YOUR TEAMMATES FIRST. That way we get back UP first.
Jerks. :o
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I've been making it a point to bump more than lance when around allies. I'm trying to be a better help to my team than just killing everyone. :3
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so i had a few rounds in which i was handling multiple foes on the ground quite well after being dehorsed, just to be stabbed lanced slashed bumped and killed by friendly cav trying to help me.
They're not trying to help you, they're being greedy and trying to get the kill, which in most cases, goes wrong and somehow they fuck you up...
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I spend 50% of my time on the floor when ANY cav are around. The other 50% is spent being spiked by stray lances.
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oh poor you, sounds like you got it rough. Want a tissue?
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I think Phazey has right attitude to this question. I try to tell myself that the friendly inf owns the kill i'm just there to help him/her get it sooner, but as alot of others have said i'm clumsy and it goes wrong sometimes. I'm sure most cav chars here will think this thread quite heartening in that it at leaast shows that not everyonehates cav!
I think only one person has mentioned this so far but i think its important, a half-tonne horse riding around close by (and the horse noise more importantly) distracts the enemy alot i think giving great opportunity for friendlies to get hits in even without any slashes, bumping etc but clearly the cav then has zero % chance to steal the kill like a frag-hungry animal!
Goes back to who does the cav think 'owns the kill'?
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Some people are kill/frag whores. They want to look good on the score board. I discount what these people's opinions are (whether it's the cav guy rushing through 8 teammates to kill an enemy, or the lone infantry guy running off by himself instead of working with teammates).
I don't care what they think, or whether they want my help or not. It's a team based game (in the battle and siege servers) and you're going to get my help whether you want it or not. I generally horse bump or lance enemies whenever I can help a teammate.
But like the guy above me said, just hovering around an enemy is enough to keep them distracted or at least partially distracted. I basically circle around behind them looking for a chance to stab them in the back (if I can do it safely) and basically every time you come close to making a pass that enemy is going to have to turn and face you, or take a lance in the back.
Everything aside however, even the best cav will sometimes bump or kill a friendly player. When I'm approaching a 1v1 lots of times I have a nice angle on a lance and it's half way thrusted and then your teammate circles in front of the enemy. At this point I try to move my lance away (if blocking to pull back doesn't work), but sometimes it's too late.
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Thats exactly how to handle such a situation.
Horseman announcing presence, footman going out of his way, horseman ride the enemy down, footmen slash the enemy while hes trying to get up again. Move on to the next enemy.
Unfortunately, 85 % of crpg players dont know how to behave on the battlefield. Usually its like this: Footman-Noob dancing in front of the enemy, and cav-noob killing the wrong guy.
What the..
Michael talking sense? What kinda sorcery is this?
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i always play as peasant assassin and always got bump by horses from team mates. Guess what? In the end i always ended up getting kill or lose half of my hp cuz my fav gear is peasant armour
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When I play Infantry I take more damage from team mates mindlessly spamming swings in battle than from friendly horses or friendly archers.
Just today I was riding past a guy, he was on my left and slightly further up the slope we were on, he was moving away from me and I was steering clear of enemy pikes to my right, I wasn't close to him, but he suddenly jumps down the slope right back into my path, I tried to turn when I saw him jump but it was impossible for me to avoid him as he literally jumped right infront of my horse, then he got killed and blamed me.
He blames me for what, for being on a Horse?. Yeah, I pay the upkeep and the skillpoints to ride it, if you are going to jump directly into my path when I have tried to give you as much space as I can and not interfere with your fight, without putting myself in danger, I certainly am not going to take any blame for it.
I'm also not going to ride around in circles in the few open spaces on certain maps, I stay aware of my team mates around me, but being a good Infantry player requires awareness too, because if I was an enemy cav he would have been just as dead. You can't blame friendly cavalry for everything, especially if you throw yourself infront of speeding horses and expect them to be able to steer out of the way everytime. In many cases it's neither parties fault, but the infantry player chooses to blame the cav player simply because of how the horse bumps him down, even though the Cavalry player did his best to stay away from the Infantry player.
It's the same idea of when you are having a melee fight, you and one enemy are face to face swinging at eachother, then a team mate thinks it's a good idea to run from behind you and past your side, causing your side swing to hit him before you can even see him and either hurt him or glance off of him. If you hit your team mate and hurt him or kill him he then blames you, even though it was his fault for being a stupid twat, but if you glance off of him and die because the enemy hits you during the moment you glance off of your stupid team mate, he doesn't think he has done anything wrong.
They are the kind of idiots that make it nice to play Cavalry, because I don't have to deal with them and quite frankly, regardless of the whines about cavalry, I will continue playing it and I will continue going into battles to kill enemies.
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you all just mad we come in your battles and steal your kills :D
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It goes both ways man. If you're not aware of the cav trying to help, then you're likely running circles around the enemy and not giving your cav player the chance to help. If you give slightly more room for the cav they're likely to knock the enemy to the ground giving you an easy target.
If im in a 3v1, i do not rly have time to look where the cav is at, and then afterwards look where he is gonna run in from. So when i know that i can then figure out where to move in the gank, to stay alive and avoid getting killed by my own cav. Just no dude.
If u need to set up a gank with a random cav, u need to do it before u get into a 3v1. Because at most occasions, u will just be too busy surviving. So as i said earlier, thats why i need an experienced cav if he wants to jump in, without me being able to see it completely, since im pretty busy with archers, xbow and all the infantry around me.
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All infantry needs to do is yell "Broken Arrow!" and cav will be there to support, friendly fire is just part of the deal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=dfImiqpf6eo#t=28s
Cav is the aircraft of the battlefield.
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I've got no problem getting tked by good cav tbh, because they usually do more good than bad. Its worth tking the odd infantry here and there if you help your team win the game.
Its the bad cav thats the problem, and if you;re a bad cav, you know who you are :mrgreen: stop bumping me!
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Depends on the cav. If I know they are there I can work with them and it can be a huge help.
But if the cav player is like me on horseback (awful) then get awaaay!