inf, do you want cav support in a clusterfuck situation?

[SixThumbs]

Whenever I notice a teammate of any class trying to "help" me I immediately switch over to secondary role of trying to get the enemy to expose his back to the other guy. The only reason I put help in quotations is because more often then not the help involves team-wounding if I don't notice them and just continue on my merry way because I do play like a bit of a spaz sometimes and it's equally to avoid risk of wounding my team-mates also.

Seriously though, this has happened plenty of times, if you're cav and you're trying to help; please do it from an angle I can see you at or at least make your presence known before you decide to try to lance the the front of the guy I'm fighting

[Gurnisson]

They should help, but they should let people know of their presence first. If I don't know about my friendly cav it can often end up with him getting me killed. If not, I'll make space for him to bump/lance, and me to finish the enemy off. Please don't come couching in on a champion courser hoping to hit the enemy, without thinking of risks either.

[CaptainQuantum]

I would prefer not to have any cavalry help most of the time, unless I of course the cavalry is a 22nd, Torben or Tommy. This is due to the fact that in melee a friendly bump to the enemy won't help much since in a group fight I have to control the whole group of enemies, and I won't get chance to slash the downed enemy anyway. In 1on1 the previously mentioned cavalry I know to be team trained cavalry (there will be others, I just don't know them personally).

There are exceptions however, if I appear to have acknowledged I have misjudged the group and I have started back-pedalling, I want help from cavalry. Even if the cavalry just bumps a few guys and leaves, it can make that overwhelming swarm small enough to kill. Also in 1 on 1 with good duellists I would prefer some cavalry support , but I have to know the friendly cavalry is there so I can position myself appropriately.   

There are also indications cavalry should check on before deciding to charge, as I mentioned long durations of back-pedalling implies a friendly is worried and also makes it easier for the cavalry to lance the engaged enemies. Further indications for a good assist/kill is how erratic the friendly player is moving, if they are spinning around like a teacup ride, they probably aren't the best people to be helping. Lastly some players just cannot work with a team, Phase for example will happily wipe out an entire team alone, but will do much worse if a friendly cav tries to assist or be a ninja.

To summarise; yes I want your help if you are a good cavalryman who knows he/she can get a kill without killing me, if your name is MAGANDA and you don't care for the safety of your team then gtfo.

[Michael]

I'll make space for him to bump/lance, and me to finish the enemy off.

Thats exactly how to handle such a situation.

Horseman announcing presence, footman going out of his way, horseman ride the enemy down, footmen slash the enemy while hes trying to get up again. Move on to the next enemy.

Unfortunately, 85 % of crpg players dont know how to behave on the battlefield. Usually its like this: Footman-Noob dancing in front of the enemy, and cav-noob killing the wrong guy.


 

[Phazey]

I always go in for the bump. I even bump-slash 'em when i feel it's urgent enough or when there is a pretty clear shot.

I mean, in any situation where my team is getting overrun and is losing, desperate measures are justified. Okay, there is a 10% chance i behead my dear teammate instead... but that 90% chance for another enemy quickly dispatched is worth it in that scenario.¹

The one big exception is when we're already clearly winning. Then i slow down and take less risks and try to only run in for 'helpful' bumps. Sometimes i bump my teammates a bit aswell, but usually they are able to get up faster (slight bump instead of knockdown) and land a 'free' hit.

It's essential, imo. Horsemen bump enemies engaged in melee fights. Especially the guys that know how to block, the valuable targets, need bumping. ²

To summarize my 'cav support clusterfuck dogma':
- when winning -> only bump, only go for safe bumps
- when equal / struggling for win -> bump and slash, try to avoid teamkills but take the risk if the opportunity presents itself
- when losing -> go all out, take big risks and try to kill those 12 enemies even though you only have 2 teammates left alive

I can understand most infantrymen's frustration with friendly cav bumping or even slashing / stabbing in fights. However, i strongly feel that, just like in a footmen-only melee, your team stands the best chance to win if you play 'dirty' and try to take any advantage you can get. An opponent bumped is usually a dead opponent if you are ready for it. At least it's a free hit.

Take the good with the bad, i'd say. If you see cav failing a lot at the 'team support bumping', don't hesitate to tell him though. Most guys will apologize and try harder not to bump you. Never slash at friendly horses though. Intentional teamattacking is not cool.

Think of it like this: cav loses most 1 vs 1 fights against skilled and aware players. However, they are much more mobile and have horsebump. Therefore, their job is to utilize their mobility and stun effect (horsebump) to disrupt an enemy and open up their defences. It's what the class is made for, really.

Good archers also shoot into melee fights. It's always a judgement call and i'm not advocating unneeded recklessness... but let's be honest: we play this game to win. If you want duels, go to the duel server. On the battle server, we stab people in the back and avoid any fair fights... at least i do. 

Also, try and be aware of friendly cav. When done right, one cavalry can support a dozen footmen and net you many easy kills. When i'm on teamspeak with the Mercs and i'm the only cav, supporting melee with bumps and slashes is my main role (besides guarding against enemy cav with horseblocks and dealing with runners)..
Don't expect friendly cav to wait until you've seen them, because that most often also means

Concluding:
Team bumps can be annoying, but bumping is what cavalry does best. Take the good with the bad and in the end, judge friendly cavalry on their intentions, not just the results.

Edit: added conclusion and footnotes:
¹Yes, i know you can probably kill that guy. However, my team is losing and you are taking too much time dueling that guy. I rush in and kill him, at you risk, sorry for that, but please know:  i'm not trying to steal your kills... i'm just trying to win the round. Really! 

²There are guys that can easily decimate your team when left unchecked. I'm not naming names, but you know the guys i'm talking about. Those fuckers with 35-3 on half the maps they play. They can handle most players in 1 vs 1 and are still very likely to kill you teammates when left alone with a 1 vs 3 or worse. So i hover around the melee clusterfuck, wait for him to forget about me or hope he's tunnelvisioned and doesn't notice me in time and bravely ride over him. I might even slash at the guy, even though there are a couple of teammates standing around him ready to kill him. Why? Because the guy is just too damn dangerous. The higher the danger (risk of losing the round), the bigger the risks one should take, imo.

[Overdriven]

^ What he said

It's very situational, but I try to only help if a team mate is outnumbered or I can see a clear chance at bumping the enemy that my team is 1vs1 on. Admittedly I do sometimes get greedy and go for the shot even if it's 2 vs 1 with my team winning, but fortunately I've gotten to the point where I am generally smart enough to hold my shots unless I know I have a clear chance. Not to say accidents don't happen. And if they do I usually apologise.

My favourite is when I see a friendly archer being chased by multiple inf. Charge in and run them all over and let the archer get clear away  Either that or bump shoot them and let the archer get shots in as well, can often kill a fair few doing that.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

There should be special voice commands with a huge !!!!!!!!!!!!!! above your head, so that teammates can se who and where says things.

Imagine the teamwork capability if people aren't stupid.

Cav guy rollin' in with his lance, just escaped from a ranged spam area, sees a melee guy overwhelmed by 3 others, melee guy says:

Help me!

Cavalry is notified and is approaching you now.

Too bad most cav are kill hungry bastards, who cannot aim. Back in the day when I was a lancer I did pretty "surgical" teamsaves, but it was risky to do that.
I used to attempt to lance but quickly realized how bad it always turned out.

Whenever I'm in these situations I purely attempt to bump the enemy as that is safer than lancing and will temporarily remove one of the enemies.

[CrazyCracka420]

I almost always go out of my way to help friendly foot soldiers (infantry or ranged).  I try to prioritize who to help based on how much trouble they are in, and how over-extended they are in relation to the rest of our team.  If I assess the situation as being too risky for me to move in (too much enemy ranged or long pointy sticks, I'll likely move on to another friendly unit to help out).

Basically when I'm cavalry I try not to engage enemy cavalry (although I can if needed, that's specifically why I use a courser and heavy lance, for anti-cav).  But the bulk of my kills and damage goes towards helping teammates on the ground.  Unless our main infantry force is clashing with the enemies main infantry force, I'm usually on the outskirts helping small groups of our friendly troops.

Sometimes cavalry will bump you, or even stab the wrong guy.  It happens, although I generally like to think it doesn't happen nearly as often as I help save or assist a friendly troop. 

Cavalry are meant to help friendly ground troops, they are being completely wasted if they don't.  If you're on the ground and see a cavalry playing trying to help you, don't think of it as him trying to steal your kill...we're all just trying to win the round, regardless of who gets the kill on the scoreboard.  If you're a kill whore just looking for a high score, you're playing the wrong game.  When I play as infantry I don't ever have even close to the kills I have as cavalry, but I usually feel like I'm being just as helpful, if not more, based on being able to assist other ground troops and collectively taking out enemies.

It can be hectic when you're on the ground, and not always easy to see that your friendly cavalry is trying to help you, but if you do notice me or another cav player trying to help, try to work with us as we're trying to work with you (try to back off an extra foot or two and we'll bump them to the ground and you can kill them, or we'll try to stab them in the back...if they turn to face us, they give their back to you).

[_GTX_]

In general i would say no do not help me, since most cav which tryes to help me. Ends up bumping me every time. So i would rather be without a noobish cav bumping me, since i have a okay chance of getting out alive of a 3v1(ofc depends on who i ganking me).

But if its an experienced cav, which knows just a little bit about how ganks can work out, and knows where to position himself and when to charge in and help. Then yes, i would gladly take help from those.

[CrazyCracka420]

In general i would say no do not help me, since most cav which tryes to help me. Ends up bumping me every time. So i would rather be without a noobish cav bumping me, since i have a okay chance of getting out alive of a 3v1(ofc depends on who i ganking me).

But if its an experienced cav, which knows just a little bit about how ganks can work out, and knows where to position himself and when to charge in and help. Then yes, i would gladly take help from those.

It goes both ways man.  If you're not aware of the cav trying to help, then you're likely running circles around the enemy and not giving your cav player the chance to help.  If you give slightly more room for the cav they're likely to knock the enemy to the ground giving you an easy target.

[obitus]

Depends on if the cav is skilled or not.

Skilled cav is your best friend.  They'll bump your shielding enemies so you can stab them, draw their attention so you can stab their back, etc.

Unskilled cav will bump you like a noob.



That being said, ALL infantry can help out cavalry whether they are noob or not by:
1.  Strafing to a location in which they can see their friendly cavalry, and the enemy has his back turned to them
2.  Creating distance between you and your targets when cavalry closes in

[CrazyCracka420]

Depends on if the cav is skilled or not.

Skilled cav is your best friend.  They'll bump your shielding enemies so you can stab them, draw their attention so you can stab their back, etc.

Unskilled cav will bump you like a noob.

Even the best cav will sometimes stab or bump friendlies...it's more likely to happen when your friendly infantry is either unaware or unwilling to work with the cav.  Shit happens, nobody is perfect. 

I like phazey's post, pretty much sums up what most "smart"/thinking horsemen do when they are alive.  We are trying to constantly prioritize where the threats are coming from, and how big of a risk to take in helping teammates.  Kind of like an unconscious algorithm running in our heads.

That being said, I just noticed the poll is misleading and probably not accurate.  The forum topic says "do you want cav to help infantry", so I clicked "Ya" on the poll.  But the poll says "GTFO" yes or no help me...

[Torben]

probably not accurate.  The forum topic says "do you want cav to help infantry", so I clicked "Ya" on the poll.  But the poll says "GTFO" yes or no help me...

i noticed that too.  well,  fuck.

[Serfonz]

gtfo?
ya 63 (50%)
no,  help me! 63 (50%)
Total Members Voted: 126


Wow. o_O

[Cepeshi]

Torben, i think you might consider creating more understandable poll.

But on the topic: one of the most interesting reads i had in these forums in a while. I just recently started with cav character, for last 4 generations i was (and still i am) trying to learn how to let the infantry know i want to help, bump, or just look dangerous so their enemies would lose a guard for one sec for my teammate to attack them, while facing me, or something like that.

I even try to whistle as i approach some weird situations, but with the emote spam its hard to pay attention, and when i am on the ground aswell, i see how hard it is to see what is happening, who is approaching and the most important: what the fuck to do 

Sorry for all the bumps i do, sorry for accidental TH/TK, please, forgive me, i am trying to get better as cav and i appreciate your patience with me...but, god, nothing makes me feel better than when i approach a 2v1, i see my friend teammate is aware of me, he steps back, i go bump, he kills, i go bump again, he kills again, or i just kill one bump second one or something and we work out so nice together and both survive! Lovely!

This cooperation is partly based on luck and awareness of both, but god....cav is so much fun