cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: DaveUKR on December 23, 2011, 11:45:10 pm

Title: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: DaveUKR on December 23, 2011, 11:45:10 pm
Hello, I'm really frustrated that you're making crossbows/archers more and more popular among players.

First of all, Crossbows are insanely fast right now. Nerf the speed of all 1 slot Crossbows by 5 points and 2 slot Xbows by 6 points (And don't forget to give MW Arbalest +1 point of accuracy, Fasader forgot about 4 damage -1 accu rule, so it's the same as Heavy right now).

Second, make all 1 slot crossbows 500 gold more expensive and all 2 slot Xbows 1k gold more expensive.

Third, implement WSE feature which allows to use only 3rd and 4th slots for ranged ammo => NO Horn Bow users with 3 quivers, NO Light Crossbowmen with 3 stacks of bolts, NO thrower spammers with 4 stacks of throwing weapons (though throwing weapons should be rebalanced by giving more ammo per slot, think about how to do this correctly)

Fourth, nerf amour penetration factor for all ranged slightly. And make that soaked shots won't stop a player from moving (1 damage arrow should not stun anyone)

Fifth, make it so that holding an attack while using ranged weapon would slow you down severely so Shotgunners and Backpedalling archers disappear.
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Tzar on December 23, 2011, 11:51:53 pm
k

Also make it so that all who uses a ranged weapon gets aids after 4 min of play time so we dont have to wait for the roof monkeys to come down
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: [ptx] on December 23, 2011, 11:55:28 pm
On it, boss.
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on December 24, 2011, 12:52:27 am
Hello, I'm really frustrated that you're making crossbows/archers more and more popular among players.

First of all, Crossbows are insanely fast right now. Nerf the speed of all 1 slot Crossbows by 5 points and 2 slot Xbows by 6 points (And don't forget to give MW Arbalest +1 point of accuracy, Fasader forgot about 4 damage -1 accu rule, so it's the same as Heavy right now).

Second, make all 1 slot crossbows 500 gold more expensive and all 2 slot Xbows 1k gold more expensive.

Third, implement WSE feature which allows to use only 3rd and 4th slots for ranged ammo => NO Horn Bow users with 3 quivers, NO Light Crossbowmen with 3 stacks of bolts, NO thrower spammers with 4 stacks of throwing weapons (though throwing weapons should be rebalanced by giving more ammo per slot, think about how to do this correctly)

Fourth, nerf amour penetration factor for all ranged slightly. And make that soaked shots won't stop a player from moving (1 damage arrow should not stun anyone)

Fifth, make it so that holding an attack while using ranged weapon would slow you down severely so Shotgunners and Backpedalling archers disappear.

Five it bad. Give me a bow and an arrow and I'll show you how fast I can run with a drawn bow^^
It is the only chance you have against a shielder when you are alone out there :/  And that often doesn't even work if the guy knows how to play his class.

Rest are more or less fine suggestions
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: JihadistMexican on December 24, 2011, 01:09:29 am
I recently noticed in NA_1 that there is a WHOLE LOT of archers now.  People have said this before but this is the first time I've noticed it. I would agree for the ranged nerf Dave UKR ( a well known ranged fighter ) has proposed.
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Thomek on December 24, 2011, 11:02:51 pm
this coming from dave.. must mean something.
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: B3RS3RK on December 24, 2011, 11:43:40 pm

Second, make all 1 slot crossbows 500 gold more expensive and all 2 slot Xbows 1k gold more expensive.


I agree with everything but this.

That change is too small if you want something to change and to big to be put off with a shrug by players.It will only be producing rage and rage.But it won´t change shit.

If you´d want to change things, make 2 Slot xbows more expensive by 5k gold and 1 slot xbows by 3k.

Although I doubt that will decrease the number of xbowers by much.
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Tydeus on December 25, 2011, 12:38:53 am
Third, implement WSE feature which allows to use only 3rd and 4th slots for ranged ammo => NO Horn Bow users with 3 quivers, NO Light Crossbowmen with 3 stacks of bolts, NO thrower spammers with 4 stacks of throwing weapons (though throwing weapons should be rebalanced by giving more ammo per slot, think about how to do this correctly)

Fourth, nerf amour penetration factor for all ranged slightly. And make that soaked shots won't stop a player from moving (1 damage arrow should not stun anyone)

Fifth, make it so that holding an attack while using ranged weapon would slow you down severely so Shotgunners and Backpedalling archers disappear.
I like these, but I think giving more ammo per stack to throwers would drastically change their balance, even if you limit them to only being in the 3rd and 4th slots. I especially like that last one.
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Overdriven on December 25, 2011, 12:42:57 am
Third, implement WSE feature which allows to use only 3rd and 4th slots for ranged ammo => NO Horn Bow users with 3 quivers,

No...that would screw HA. Dumb iddea :|

No more damn nerfs ffs
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Ujin on December 25, 2011, 12:55:33 am
No...that would screw HA. Dumb iddea :|

No more damn nerfs ffs
it has to be done. now drop your pants and bend over.
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Lars on December 25, 2011, 01:55:22 am
Imo   bows&crossbows should require more strenght to be used, i think that having less points to spend in agility (weapon master- athletics) could make ranged a bit more inaccurate and easier to catch, i also think that there should be a skill like power draw to use crossbows, a crossbower with a decent build can convert way too many skill points  in order to increase agility.


Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: B3RS3RK on December 25, 2011, 03:44:51 am
I think now that we have WSE there could be other requirements introduced for crossbows than plain strength.

For example Hunting CB 0 wpf, Light CB 25 wpf and the next CB 50 and always 25 more.That would stop Melee chars from carrying xbows at least, if they aren´t hybrids.
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Fasader on December 25, 2011, 06:04:43 am
DAVE IS GOD! ALL BOW TO THE DAVE!
on topic:
(god forbid mw crossbows have better accuracy than regular ones)
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Gnjus on December 25, 2011, 10:47:34 am
this coming from dave.. must mean something.

It means that he lost his Divine Crossbowman status since there is hordes of clones these days who (would you believe it ?) shoot just way too bloody accurate and get some insane scores with their "crossbow + dildo = one man army" combination. Also - he probably dies to bolts & arrows more often then he's used to.
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on December 25, 2011, 11:03:09 am
Imo   bows&crossbows should require more strenght to be used, i think that having less points to spend in agility (weapon master- athletics) could make ranged a bit more inaccurate and easier to catch, i also think that there should be a skill like power draw to use crossbows, a crossbower with a decent build can convert way too many skill points  in order to increase agility.

Please what?  Totally retarded suggestion. Archery is already inaccurate enough, especially when you want to aim for more than half a second. Just because lots of people can still hit doesn't mean it's too accurate or whatever. It is because people get better in it and many archers have been archer for many generations  :rolleyes:

It means that he lost his Divine Crossbowman status since there is hordes of clones these days who (would you believe it ?) shoot just way too bloody accurate and get some insane scores with their "crossbow + dildo = one man army" combination. Also - he probably dies to bolts & arrows more often then he's used to.

Totally what I had on my mind myself and just wanted to write, but you wrote that first so I will just say  +1  to that^^
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Arrowblood on December 25, 2011, 11:14:35 am
+1 there are too many other robin hoods and wilhelm tells.
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Gnjus on December 25, 2011, 11:24:47 am
+1 there are too many other robin hoods and wilhelm tells.

There's been too many of those since day 1 of cRPG.

Too bad the devs are simple minded and can't do balance by realism. We all know how ranged weapons are: quite deadly once they hit you but hitting itself is not that easy, in other words: all bows & crossbows should do decent piercing damage but they should be very inaccurate, just as they were in reality (so one man can't spam arrows at a single target with pinpoint accuracy, it takes more of 'em together to be efficient, with this one move you get both balance & teamwork). Do that and you solved the cRPG ranged shit, people will just drop ranged since they won't be able to sharpshoot others from the opposite corner of the map as they do now and be glorified as some National Heroes or Divine Divinities. Only those who play for fun & teamwork & not for Scoreboards and E-peens will remain as ranged and the game will finally be close to balanced.
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Overdriven on December 25, 2011, 01:24:15 pm
There's been too many of those since day 1 of cRPG.

Too bad the devs are simple minded and can't do balance by realism. We all know how ranged weapons are: quite deadly once they hit you but hitting itself is not that easy, in other words: all bows & crossbows should do decent piercing damage but they should be very inaccurate, just as they were in reality (so one man can't spam arrows at a single target with pinpoint accuracy, it takes more of 'em together to be efficient, with this one move you get both balance & teamwork). Do that and you solved the cRPG ranged shit, people will just drop ranged since they won't be able to sharpshoot others from the opposite corner of the map as they do now and be glorified as some National Heroes or Divine Divinities. Only those who play for fun & teamwork & not for Scoreboards and E-peens will remain as ranged and the game will finally be close to balanced.

Not for normal MP. But wasn't that essentially what the devs initially said they were going to do with strat? Make bows a lot less accurate, forcing them to be used properly in massed volleys rather than individual shooters. But they haven't done it yet. I think it should stay how it is now in battle though because organising pubbys for volleys would be a bitch, and therefore bows would be useless.
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Lars on December 25, 2011, 02:05:14 pm
Please what?  Totally retarded suggestion. Archery is already inaccurate enough, especially when you want to aim for more than half a second. Just because lots of people can still hit doesn't mean it's too accurate or whatever. It is because people get better in it and many archers have been archer for many generations  :rolleyes:


Omg, if you aim for more than half second your tiny crosshair isn't so tiny anymore, and you are probably going to miss your target, that's a tragedy when you have only 30+ arrows!



 We all know how ranged weapons are: quite deadly once they hit you but hitting itself is not that easy, in other words: all bows & crossbows should do decent piercing damage but they should be very inaccurate, just as they were in reality (so one man can't spam arrows at a single target with pinpoint accuracy, it takes more of 'em together to be efficient, with this one move you get both balance & teamwork). Do that and you solved the cRPG ranged shit, people will just drop ranged since they won't be able to sharpshoot others from the opposite corner of the map as they do now and be glorified as some National Heroes or Divine Divinities. Only those who play for fun & teamwork & not for Scoreboards and E-peens will remain as ranged and the game will finally be close to balanced.

This is what should be done imo, and there should be a skill like power draw for crossbows, it's ridicolous that crossbowers can just run away and reload somewhere else because they run like ninjas, IMO they should be able to run away from angry melee classes and reload somewhere else only if infantry/cav whatever cover their "retreat",  slowing down the enemies.
 
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Kafein on December 25, 2011, 02:09:57 pm
Archers are not supposed to have a chance against a shielder. EDIT: when they are alone.

A funny thing to notice is that a shielder (the best counter to ranged we have) is barely able to kill an alone archer (after a 3 minutes long jogging that is). And is automatically dead against 2 or more archers (each archer goes his way -> shielder shot in the back). Does this applies to other counters ? Like an archer countering 2h. Does the archer has to focus on killing the 2h during several minutes to get any result ? No. Do archers are automatically dead when attacking two or more 2h ? No again. You might say "there are other counters to archers !" No there aren't. Cav can't do anything against aware ranged, since cav gets oneshot when trying to charge. And the ranged that are so bad they lack the basic cav awareness just camp roofs and become immune to everything except other ranged.

Something is wrong in the land of cRPG. A particular type of char gets survivability, over-average damage, ranged attacks, both movement speed and maneuvrability and the possibility to be immune except against itself.


I would recommend drastically reducing the optimal accuracy time window. What is wrong with current archery is that is resembles xbows in the sense that you can keep your aim during a non-prohibitive time. And also decreasing accuracy across the board.
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Okkam on December 25, 2011, 02:59:35 pm
A funny thing to notice is that a shielder (the best counter to ranged we have) is barely able to kill an alone archer (after a 3 minutes long jogging that is). And is automatically dead against 2 or more archers (each archer goes his way -> shielder shot in the back). Does this applies to other counters ? Like an archer countering 2h. Does the archer has to focus on killing the 2h during several minutes to get any result ? No. Do archers are automatically dead when attacking two or more 2h ? No again. You might say "there are other counters to archers !" No there aren't. Cav can't do anything against aware ranged, since cav gets oneshot when trying to charge. And the ranged that are so bad they lack the basic cav awareness just camp roofs and become immune to everything except other ranged.

Something is wrong in the land of cRPG. A particular type of char gets survivability, over-average damage, ranged attacks, both movement speed and maneuvrability and the possibility to be immune except against itself.


I would recommend drastically reducing the optimal accuracy time window. What is wrong with current archery is that is resembles xbows in the sense that you can keep your aim during a non-prohibitive time. And also decreasing accuracy across the board.

Pure, distilled whimpering...

1. Shielder versus Archer - Ask Leoking or Mala or kinngrimm how they CAN kill an archer.
2. Twohander versus Archer - Ask Chase or Phase or hundred of other good players how you must play as Smart 2hander. Ask Thor or other polearmers too.
3. Cavalry versus Archer - Ask Leed, Ujin. or any of GK members how you must play against archers
4. About extreme accuracy of bows - Ask Gnjus, he already make stf HA character. I saw him in battle, you can tease him with his deadly HA alt effectiveness.
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Gnjus on December 25, 2011, 03:26:48 pm
Pure, distilled whimpering...

1. Shielder versus Archer - Ask Leoking or Mala or kinngrimm how they CAN kill an archer.
2. Twohander versus Archer - Ask Chase or Phase or hundred of other good players how you must play as Smart 2hander. Ask Thor or other polearmers too.
3. Cavalry versus Archer - Ask Leed, Ujin. or any of GK members how you must play against archers
4. About extreme accuracy of bows - Ask Gnjus, he already make stf HA character. I saw him in battle, you can tease him with his deadly HA alt effectiveness.

First of all: names of particular people mean absolutely nothing in this discussion. Second: my HA is my main, not STF but respeced (still not level 30 & without any loomed bows & arrows) and definitely not a 15/24 build with 172 wpf in archery. Also its the first time ever i play that class so its a normal thing that i suck hard but that doesn't stop other HA's & especially foot archers & crossbowmen to snipe me down with ease from miles away while in motion.
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Tot. on December 25, 2011, 04:38:25 pm
I actually find it quite amusing that both Gnjus and DaveUKR, which both were/are crossbow-lovers for long periods of time, now both are for nerfing ranged, while back then when everyone was for nerfing ranged they were defending the crossbows wholeheartedly.

Changing classes completely changes your perspective I guess.  :lol:

PS.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Gnjus on December 25, 2011, 05:01:35 pm
I actually find it quite amusing that both Gnjus and DaveUKR, which both were/are crossbow-lovers for long periods of time, now both are for nerfing ranged, while back then when everyone was for nerfing ranged they were defending the crossbows wholeheartedly.

Changing classes completely changes your perspective I guess.  :lol:

PS.
(click to show/hide)

I think that your statement is not really correct, at least not in my case. What you call "long periods of time" is not really THAT long, taking into account how long we play this mod. Also - my "wholeheartedly" defense of xbows was down to crosshairs mostly, xbow had it like 5 times wider then bows, which is, was and always will be nonsense.  But many things have changed over time. :wink:

Other than that you're mostly right, changing class indeed does change ones perspective and especially the last part: If you can't beat them - join them, why do you think i picked up Crossbow in the first place ? Only to try and counter those semi-automatic barret bows, long story that everyone knows already. And why do you think i respeced into horse archer now? For serious gameplay ? Most certainly not, I just don't feel like running around like an imbecile anymore while most of the people are shooting at me from unreachable places or picking me off because i have no where to hide.  :wink:

Trolling and playing like a scumbag is obviously an enforced way to go in this mod. It desperately needs refreshment.  :wink:
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Lennu on December 25, 2011, 05:08:21 pm
Throwers don't need more ammo. As a thrower you are supposed to pick weapons up the same rate you spam them, that's what makes throwing different from xbowmen and archers. If you run out of ammo you've either been succesfull and hit you targets, causing shitloads of damage, or failed by losing your weapon :D Failing should be punishable  :wink:

Only thing that should be improved in throwing are those throwing lances. Make them lethal again, maybe +4 damage or +1 missile speed.
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: DaveUKR on December 25, 2011, 05:53:21 pm
I was always for decreasing the amount of Arbalest and Long Bow users, because those weapons are something that was not that common on the battlefield. Making it easier to use them is ruining a game for other classes. I still don't suffer from the most of them (since the overwhelming number of them can't aim at all) and I have my good KDs as before, but when I see such a big amount of them I just feel bad for all the players from them opposite team. Bows deal ridiculous damage (1 slot bow users can snipe and deal a lot of damage on high distances to heavy armoured players, which is unbelievable crap), crossbows have super fast reloading speed, so crossbowmen don't even have to aim that good.

Regular Crossbow it he xbow that should be used by the majority of crossbows, same with Horn Bows for archers. 2 slot bows/xbows should be something that only skilled players can use effectively.
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: B3RS3RK on December 25, 2011, 06:01:20 pm

1. Shielder versus Archer - Ask Leoking or Mala or kinngrimm how they CAN kill an archer.

Yeah...Because skilled People with AT LEAST 15/24 Builds are to count as the regular player...Fail bro, Fail.

Quote
2. Twohander versus Archer - Ask Chase or Phase or hundred of other good players how you must play as Smart 2hander. Ask Thor or other polearmers too.

So you have to be one of the best players of your specific playstyle to be allowed to kill archers?Oh yeah, I see where you go there my old friendcher.

Quote
3. Cavalry versus Archer - Ask Leed, Ujin. or any of GK members how you must play against archers

First of all, Cavalry is the class with the least problems against single archers, and against multiple Archers I´ve seen all of the guys you named get raped hundreds of times...try harder.


Unsuccessfull troll is unsuccesfull.Or is he?

Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Lactose_the_intolerant on December 25, 2011, 06:11:08 pm
What annoys me as a shielder is to come up to an archer who has his bow drawn.

I thought first i would bump him but no. Archers just look on the side and will wait until they see you lowering your shield and sudenly spin in and fire. I call BS
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Tzar on December 25, 2011, 06:13:28 pm
I actually find it quite amusing that both Gnjus and DaveUKR, which both were/are crossbow-lovers for long periods of time, now both are for nerfing ranged, while back then when everyone was for nerfing ranged they were defending the crossbows wholeheartedly.

Changing classes completely changes your perspective I guess. :lol:

Well thats how the balance section works allways have been a place for noobs and biased cunts to whine an ask for nerfs  :mrgreen:

Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Elmokki on December 26, 2011, 07:22:03 pm
I'm playing the first gen where I don't have the spare wpf to take a crossbow with me with decent enough accuracy (and repair costs). In terms of score and winning this is a terrible build due to that. If I had sacrificed 3 str or agi I could've used crossbow very well and hiding on a roof with arbalest (since I use 1 slot 2h weapons anyway quite often) would've probably been a lot more beneficial to my team.

But then again I didn't play half of last gen with a crossbow since the sniping fest is often pretty boring.

I'm just saying, crossbows are so easy to spec into that unless you change it either there are going to be tons of melee-capable crossbowmen and normal crossbow using hybrids or crossbows will be rare especially as primary weapon.

I would also like to tell how much I detest every single archer not just running but also shooting at me while I chase them. Though due to that those who underestimate light armor and 7 ath with too low ath themselves tend to be surprised with a sword/axe/military sickle on the face when they turn to shoot and that is very satisfying. Oh, and the roof campfests are retarded too.
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: DaveUKR on December 26, 2011, 09:05:32 pm
Well yeah, ladders should be removed from battle servers so roof camping xbowers should learn to find a shelter on the battlefield.
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Elmokki on December 26, 2011, 09:22:22 pm
Well yeah, ladders should be removed from battle servers so roof camping xbowers should learn to find a shelter on the battlefield.

That alone is only a partial solution though. Many maps have places which are rather hard to get to but possible without a ladder. Some of these are fine, but some are borderline exploits when you at worst need to do jumps that pretty much require a few tries before you start getting them right etc.
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: CaptainQuantum on December 27, 2011, 03:50:33 pm
I have no problem with archers, they are a counter to my class, they are meant to be. I could go 15/24 2h again but I enjoy hitting hard with 21/18, Phase rapes archers with his 2h not necessarily because of his skills but because he has a 15/27 character and 1 shield skill.

On the other hand I think crossbows should be more expensive, here is an example equipment for a crossbower:

The suggested mail is probably the heaviest armour I would consider wearing for a pure xbower, and the other gear is the best equipment for the crossbower, and all of it is maintainable all of the time. With archers they have to switch between bodkins and inexpensive arrows quite often, which can be a major change in damage output. I have not had much problem with the damage from xbows, it seems I am not getting 1 shotted in a fully loomed black coat of plates any more, but this could be the fact that I have more health now.
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Mala on December 27, 2011, 05:12:57 pm
Pure, distilled whimpering...

1. Shielder versus Archer - Ask Leoking or Mala or kinngrimm how they CAN kill an archer.
...

I sneak behind them and stab them a few times while they aim at someone else. Because archers can hit me behind a shield (even i use a bigger one).
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Ujin on December 27, 2011, 05:15:58 pm
I sneak behind them and stab them a few times while they aim at someone else. Because archers can hit me behind a shield (even i use a bigger one).
Also you and Kinngrimm have agi oriented builds and light gear.
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: B3RS3RK on December 27, 2011, 10:06:17 pm
the REAL Problem is the difference of Gear weight.

With 7 Athletics and my ragged outfit+mail gauntlets I can catch 90% of the archers relativley easy and kill them.With Tunic over mail and mail gauntlets I cant.

So either use a 8 Athletics build with mediocre gear or a 7 athletics with light gear if you want to play "catch the my old friendcher"
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Rumblood on December 28, 2011, 06:27:33 pm
Remove ladders. Period. Done. End of story.

If you don't know why that will resolve the issue, you are not qualified for a discussion about ranged and need to excuse yourself from the thread.
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on December 28, 2011, 07:43:57 pm
I have no problem with archers, they are a counter to my class, they are meant to be. I could go 15/24 2h again but I enjoy hitting hard with 21/18, Phase rapes archers with his 2h not necessarily because of his skills but because he has a 15/27 character and 1 shield skill.

On the other hand I think crossbows should be more expensive, here is an example equipment for a crossbower:
  • Arbalest 18796
  • Steel bolts 2563
  • Tunic over mail 4983
  • Splinted leather greaves over mail 1817
  • Mail Gauntlets 2274
  • Nordic Huscarl's Helmet 2890
  • Mace 4225
  • Total equipment cost 37548 < Sustainable equipment cost due to upkeep

The suggested mail is probably the heaviest armour I would consider wearing for a pure xbower, and the other gear is the best equipment for the crossbower, and all of it is maintainable all of the time. With archers they have to switch between bodkins and inexpensive arrows quite often, which can be a major change in damage output. I have not had much problem with the damage from xbows, it seems I am not getting 1 shotted in a fully loomed black coat of plates any more, but this could be the fact that I have more health now.

That is what you pay for such an equipment with a fucking arbalest and steal bolts? o.O

Wow!  Never expected it to be so cheap o.O

Hey people out there, wanna cry moar about archers and how many nerfs they still need?

I pay 44,398 gold  for longbow, 2stacks of bodkins and the rest of shitty equip (hammer and pilgrim stuff)
That is much more expensive, but achery needs nerfs right?  :rolleyes:

Has nothing to do with this thread in particular, just speaking for all the threads in general, that concern archery
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Gnjus on December 28, 2011, 08:00:56 pm
Raising the upkeep will solve nothing, it just widens the gap between rich bastards who already amassed tons of money and the ones who are struggling with finances. Make a full wipe instead (with removing ladders ofc, and a few other tweaks) and your balance problems are nearly solved.
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Cup1d on December 29, 2011, 12:23:59 am
That is what you pay for such an equipment with a fucking arbalest and steal bolts? o.O

Wow!  Never expected it to be so cheap o.O

Hey people out there, wanna cry moar about archers and how many nerfs they still need?

I pay 44,398 gold  for longbow, 2stacks of bodkins and the rest of shitty equip (hammer and pilgrim stuff)
That is much more expensive, but achery needs nerfs right?  :rolleyes:

Has nothing to do with this thread in particular, just speaking for all the threads in general, that concern archery


Longbow - 11000
Bodkins - 10116
Hammer - 589
Pilgrim disguise - 354
Pilgrim Hood - 124
Leather gloves - 100
Khergit Leather Boots - 153
----------------------------
22436

On the other hand you pay for arrows often.
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Dezilagel on December 29, 2011, 12:35:47 am
I pay 44,398 gold  for longbow, 2stacks of bodkins and the rest of shitty equip (hammer and pilgrim stuff)

Someone has WAY too many looms.

Also, archers feel way more powerful than xbows (fully loomed 8 pd long/rus does roughly equal dmg to an arbalest!), from the perspective of a pole/shield guy.
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on December 29, 2011, 12:46:56 am

Longbow - 11000
Bodkins - 10116
Hammer - 589
Pilgrim disguise - 354
Pilgrim Hood - 124
Leather gloves - 100
Khergit Leather Boots - 153
----------------------------
22436

On the other hand you pay for arrows often.

That's not what's written on the website for me :/

Ok, I use two stacks of arrows.

Btw, I don't know it because I never really cared, but do you have higher upkeep for loomed items?^^
Got loomed bow, arrows and hammer, maybe that raises price? :/
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Dezilagel on December 29, 2011, 06:43:10 am
That's not what's written on the website for me :/

Ok, I use two stacks of arrows.

Btw, I don't know it because I never really cared, but do you have higher upkeep for loomed items?^^
Got loomed bow, arrows and hammer, maybe that raises price? :/

It raises displayed prices, but does nothing for the upkeep.
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: [ptx] on December 29, 2011, 08:54:19 am
Didn't bows get double upkeep price?
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Spawny on December 29, 2011, 04:08:43 pm
Also you and Kinngrimm have agi oriented builds and light gear.

Last time I checked leoking too.

Catching archers as a shielder in medium armour and a build with less than 24 agility is pretty much impossible if they see you comming.
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: B3RS3RK on December 29, 2011, 07:16:59 pm
Ive got a solution, at least for archers.

Make Powerdraw 4strength per level, not 3.And decrease the requirements of each bow by 1.

This will heal ranged fever for archers.

You will need 21/18 Builds to use 2slot bows, meaning you will be easier to catch for infantry.

machinegun Hornbowusers wont be as viable as before and stuff.
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Tears of Destiny on December 29, 2011, 07:23:29 pm
Most NA 2 slotters are 21/18 8-)
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: [ptx] on December 29, 2011, 07:24:42 pm
Ive got a solution, at least for archers.

Make Powerdraw 4strength per level, not 3.And decrease the requirements of each bow by 1.

This will heal ranged fever for archers.

You will need 21/18 Builds to use 2slot bows, meaning you will be easier to catch for infantry.

machinegun Hornbowusers wont be as viable as before and stuff.
Hornbow users will be even more viable this way, compared to 2 slot bow users.
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: B3RS3RK on December 29, 2011, 07:26:58 pm
Hornbow users will be even more viable this way, compared to 2 slot bow users.

Nope, because normal Hornbow users will have less damage.

Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: [ptx] on December 29, 2011, 07:32:07 pm
Just like 2 slot bow users, that will also have to do with less proficiency, which will hurt them more.
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: B3RS3RK on December 29, 2011, 07:41:04 pm
Many 2slot bow users already have 21/18 for the pd.

Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: [ptx] on December 29, 2011, 07:42:09 pm
Many don't. And those will probably switch to hornbow then.
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Stormcrow on December 29, 2011, 09:36:26 pm
yes archery is over powered. So if your not an archer you obviously have brain damage and should therefore keep your opinions to yourself.

In fact the reason most good players GTX archery is because its so overpowered

Just for a challenge name one archer who consistently places in the top 5 every round and maybe i will believe some of the fabricated stories that most of you are whining about. I have played all of the builds in crpg and they all have there pros and cons. You cant simply nerf others because you are terrible. If you suck, change your build or your play style.

Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: B3RS3RK on December 29, 2011, 09:45:12 pm
Many don't. And those will probably switch to hornbow then.

Let them do it.They won´t be as good as before, though.

They would need 16 Strength to even hold the horn bow, having 4 pd.That means lesser damage with the hornbow, too.

4 strength per pd means you have a wider gap between Damage dealing archers(Eg. builds with at least 21 strength)and faster archers.
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Cup1d on December 29, 2011, 11:29:10 pm
In fact the reason most good players GTX archery is because its so overpowered

I remember all this good players in 2010 year, when archery was not underpowered. This is not a reason.
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Tears of Destiny on December 30, 2011, 06:20:16 am
Most good players leave archery because it keeps changing so much patch to patch, or they get eventually bored from playing the same class for so long.
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Jambi on December 30, 2011, 06:30:19 am
That's not what's written on the website for me :/

Ok, I use two stacks of arrows.

Btw, I don't know it because I never really cared, but do you have higher upkeep for loomed items?^^
Got loomed bow, arrows and hammer, maybe that raises price? :/
This is more accurate archer setup tbh. This is what it looks like for me:

Default equipment
Armor: 4h 44b 19l Cost: 49,740 gold Slots: 4/4

Almost 50K gold

Rusbow
2x bodkins
Pickaxe
Light strange armor
Brown Head cloth
Wrapping Boots
Mail gauntlets.

Combined with the extra upkeep you get from bow/arrows breaking more. Its a money drain playing Archery, unless you can create multipliers.

Xbowers are way to cheap
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Tears of Destiny on December 30, 2011, 06:31:45 am
Your heirlooms are artificially inflating that Jambi. Normal looking loadout though, pickaxe is rather nice.
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Jambi on December 30, 2011, 06:44:56 am
Your heirlooms are artificially inflating that Jambi. Normal looking loadout though, pickaxe is rather nice.

True dat, it is inflated by heirlooms. Too bad i dont have a xbower with heirlooms myself. But i bet if you add 3-4 heirlooms to a DaveUKR setup, you would prolly end up around the same value. But pay the same ratio as upkeep, since archer upkeep kicks in more. Unless your arbalest starts breaking every round :-)
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Tennenoth on December 30, 2011, 06:52:16 am
On the same string of things, my loadout looks like this:

Armour: 4h 36b 29l Cost: 54,660 gold Slots: 4/4

Masterwork Longbow
Masterwork Bodkins
Masterwork Langes Messer
Thick Straw Hat (Still sells for 1 :()
Reinforced Leather Jerkin
Lordly Maul Gauntlets
Rus Cavalry Boots

Base value is actually:

27,031

So "max" upkeep would be: 1,892
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: MrShine on December 30, 2011, 06:57:34 am
...players leave archery because it keeps changing so much patch to patch, or they get eventually bored from playing the same class for so long.

This is the most important thing for me.  Archer is fun for awhile, but I'm just draaaaging a quarter of the way through level 30.

I should mention I get by far the lowest KDR when I go archer when compared with shielder or other melee. Yes you do a lot more support stuff, but archery isn't as good as people think it is as an individual archer.

I think archery has had enough nerfs to the class... it doesn't need to be reduced (again, again).
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Jambi on December 30, 2011, 07:15:37 am
Hello, I'm really frustrated that you're making crossbows/archers more and more popular among players.

Not dissing you or anything, but the amount of Dave clones drasticly increased after you wrote a good guide about xbowers.

Sometimes people ask me,  if im planning on writing an archery guide. And too be honest, i want too write a guide too help out new archers. But seeing as what your guide did... it only brings more rangespam. So for now i refuse  8-)

Dont get me wrong, im not blaming you or pointing fingers. Its just how it is most of the times, people wont commit to there own idea's and creativity. But search until they find some guide they can follow.

And in my experience, archery cant be taught by given someone a top-notch mathematic archery equipment setup and build. its more complicated then that. You would want to pick an armor that feels right for you, and still is practical: Like camoflauge for blending in, with your team and enviroment. The headarmor choice is also important, especially when you play in 3rd person mode. I think Archery is realy a feeling, and you build around that using your own unique character.

For example, my Yumi bow setup:
(click to show/hide)

 :P
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Tears of Destiny on December 30, 2011, 07:17:11 am
On NA it pretty much stayed the same with our "Battlefield Operators" that RS marketed, thankfully the amount of Arbie users never seemed to increase, just the countless regular crossbow spam did.
Title: Re: Healing Ranged Feaver
Post by: Zaren on December 30, 2011, 09:01:19 am
Worst idea ever