Healing Ranged Feaver

[Arrowblood]

+1 there are too many other robin hoods and wilhelm tells.

[Gnjus]

+1 there are too many other robin hoods and wilhelm tells.

There's been too many of those since day 1 of cRPG.

Too bad the devs are simple minded and can't do balance by realism. We all know how ranged weapons are: quite deadly once they hit you but hitting itself is not that easy, in other words: all bows & crossbows should do decent piercing damage but they should be very inaccurate, just as they were in reality (so one man can't spam arrows at a single target with pinpoint accuracy, it takes more of 'em together to be efficient, with this one move you get both balance & teamwork). Do that and you solved the cRPG ranged shit, people will just drop ranged since they won't be able to sharpshoot others from the opposite corner of the map as they do now and be glorified as some National Heroes or Divine Divinities. Only those who play for fun & teamwork & not for Scoreboards and E-peens will remain as ranged and the game will finally be close to balanced.

[Overdriven]

There's been too many of those since day 1 of cRPG.

Too bad the devs are simple minded and can't do balance by realism. We all know how ranged weapons are: quite deadly once they hit you but hitting itself is not that easy, in other words: all bows & crossbows should do decent piercing damage but they should be very inaccurate, just as they were in reality (so one man can't spam arrows at a single target with pinpoint accuracy, it takes more of 'em together to be efficient, with this one move you get both balance & teamwork). Do that and you solved the cRPG ranged shit, people will just drop ranged since they won't be able to sharpshoot others from the opposite corner of the map as they do now and be glorified as some National Heroes or Divine Divinities. Only those who play for fun & teamwork & not for Scoreboards and E-peens will remain as ranged and the game will finally be close to balanced.

Not for normal MP. But wasn't that essentially what the devs initially said they were going to do with strat? Make bows a lot less accurate, forcing them to be used properly in massed volleys rather than individual shooters. But they haven't done it yet. I think it should stay how it is now in battle though because organising pubbys for volleys would be a bitch, and therefore bows would be useless.

[Lars]

Please what?  Totally retarded suggestion. Archery is already inaccurate enough, especially when you want to aim for more than half a second. Just because lots of people can still hit doesn't mean it's too accurate or whatever. It is because people get better in it and many archers have been archer for many generations 

Omg, if you aim for more than half second your tiny crosshair isn't so tiny anymore, and you are probably going to miss your target, that's a tragedy when you have only 30+ arrows!

 We all know how ranged weapons are: quite deadly once they hit you but hitting itself is not that easy, in other words: all bows & crossbows should do decent piercing damage but they should be very inaccurate, just as they were in reality (so one man can't spam arrows at a single target with pinpoint accuracy, it takes more of 'em together to be efficient, with this one move you get both balance & teamwork). Do that and you solved the cRPG ranged shit, people will just drop ranged since they won't be able to sharpshoot others from the opposite corner of the map as they do now and be glorified as some National Heroes or Divine Divinities. Only those who play for fun & teamwork & not for Scoreboards and E-peens will remain as ranged and the game will finally be close to balanced.

This is what should be done imo, and there should be a skill like power draw for crossbows, it's ridicolous that crossbowers can just run away and reload somewhere else because they run like ninjas, IMO they should be able to run away from angry melee classes and reload somewhere else only if infantry/cav whatever cover their "retreat",  slowing down the enemies.
 

[Kafein]

Archers are not supposed to have a chance against a shielder. EDIT: when they are alone.

A funny thing to notice is that a shielder (the best counter to ranged we have) is barely able to kill an alone archer (after a 3 minutes long jogging that is). And is automatically dead against 2 or more archers (each archer goes his way -> shielder shot in the back). Does this applies to other counters ? Like an archer countering 2h. Does the archer has to focus on killing the 2h during several minutes to get any result ? No. Do archers are automatically dead when attacking two or more 2h ? No again. You might say "there are other counters to archers !" No there aren't. Cav can't do anything against aware ranged, since cav gets oneshot when trying to charge. And the ranged that are so bad they lack the basic cav awareness just camp roofs and become immune to everything except other ranged.

Something is wrong in the land of cRPG. A particular type of char gets survivability, over-average damage, ranged attacks, both movement speed and maneuvrability and the possibility to be immune except against itself.


I would recommend drastically reducing the optimal accuracy time window. What is wrong with current archery is that is resembles xbows in the sense that you can keep your aim during a non-prohibitive time. And also decreasing accuracy across the board.

[Okkam]

A funny thing to notice is that a shielder (the best counter to ranged we have) is barely able to kill an alone archer (after a 3 minutes long jogging that is). And is automatically dead against 2 or more archers (each archer goes his way -> shielder shot in the back). Does this applies to other counters ? Like an archer countering 2h. Does the archer has to focus on killing the 2h during several minutes to get any result ? No. Do archers are automatically dead when attacking two or more 2h ? No again. You might say "there are other counters to archers !" No there aren't. Cav can't do anything against aware ranged, since cav gets oneshot when trying to charge. And the ranged that are so bad they lack the basic cav awareness just camp roofs and become immune to everything except other ranged.

Something is wrong in the land of cRPG. A particular type of char gets survivability, over-average damage, ranged attacks, both movement speed and maneuvrability and the possibility to be immune except against itself.


I would recommend drastically reducing the optimal accuracy time window. What is wrong with current archery is that is resembles xbows in the sense that you can keep your aim during a non-prohibitive time. And also decreasing accuracy across the board.

Pure, distilled whimpering...

1. Shielder versus Archer - Ask Leoking or Mala or kinngrimm how they CAN kill an archer.
2. Twohander versus Archer - Ask Chase or Phase or hundred of other good players how you must play as Smart 2hander. Ask Thor or other polearmers too.
3. Cavalry versus Archer - Ask Leed, Ujin. or any of GK members how you must play against archers
4. About extreme accuracy of bows - Ask Gnjus, he already make stf HA character. I saw him in battle, you can tease him with his deadly HA alt effectiveness.

[Gnjus]

Pure, distilled whimpering...

1. Shielder versus Archer - Ask Leoking or Mala or kinngrimm how they CAN kill an archer.
2. Twohander versus Archer - Ask Chase or Phase or hundred of other good players how you must play as Smart 2hander. Ask Thor or other polearmers too.
3. Cavalry versus Archer - Ask Leed, Ujin. or any of GK members how you must play against archers
4. About extreme accuracy of bows - Ask Gnjus, he already make stf HA character. I saw him in battle, you can tease him with his deadly HA alt effectiveness.

First of all: names of particular people mean absolutely nothing in this discussion. Second: my HA is my main, not STF but respeced (still not level 30 & without any loomed bows & arrows) and definitely not a 15/24 build with 172 wpf in archery. Also its the first time ever i play that class so its a normal thing that i suck hard but that doesn't stop other HA's & especially foot archers & crossbowmen to snipe me down with ease from miles away while in motion.

[Tot.]

I actually find it quite amusing that both Gnjus and DaveUKR, which both were/are crossbow-lovers for long periods of time, now both are for nerfing ranged, while back then when everyone was for nerfing ranged they were defending the crossbows wholeheartedly.

Changing classes completely changes your perspective I guess. 

PS.

(click to show/hide)

I made my main a half-crossbowman too and it will stay this way, this game isn't going to get fixed in this regard so if you can't beat them, join them. 

[Gnjus]

I actually find it quite amusing that both Gnjus and DaveUKR, which both were/are crossbow-lovers for long periods of time, now both are for nerfing ranged, while back then when everyone was for nerfing ranged they were defending the crossbows wholeheartedly.

Changing classes completely changes your perspective I guess. 

PS.

(click to show/hide)

I made my main a half-crossbowman too and it will stay this way, this game isn't going to get fixed in this regard so if you can't beat them, join them. 

I think that your statement is not really correct, at least not in my case. What you call "long periods of time" is not really THAT long, taking into account how long we play this mod. Also - my "wholeheartedly" defense of xbows was down to crosshairs mostly, xbow had it like 5 times wider then bows, which is, was and always will be nonsense.  But many things have changed over time.

Other than that you're mostly right, changing class indeed does change ones perspective and especially the last part: If you can't beat them - join them, why do you think i picked up Crossbow in the first place ? Only to try and counter those semi-automatic barret bows, long story that everyone knows already. And why do you think i respeced into horse archer now? For serious gameplay ? Most certainly not, I just don't feel like running around like an imbecile anymore while most of the people are shooting at me from unreachable places or picking me off because i have no where to hide. 

Trolling and playing like a scumbag is obviously an enforced way to go in this mod. It desperately needs refreshment. 

[Lennu]

Throwers don't need more ammo. As a thrower you are supposed to pick weapons up the same rate you spam them, that's what makes throwing different from xbowmen and archers. If you run out of ammo you've either been succesfull and hit you targets, causing shitloads of damage, or failed by losing your weapon Failing should be punishable 

Only thing that should be improved in throwing are those throwing lances. Make them lethal again, maybe +4 damage or +1 missile speed.

[DaveUKR]

I was always for decreasing the amount of Arbalest and Long Bow users, because those weapons are something that was not that common on the battlefield. Making it easier to use them is ruining a game for other classes. I still don't suffer from the most of them (since the overwhelming number of them can't aim at all) and I have my good KDs as before, but when I see such a big amount of them I just feel bad for all the players from them opposite team. Bows deal ridiculous damage (1 slot bow users can snipe and deal a lot of damage on high distances to heavy armoured players, which is unbelievable crap), crossbows have super fast reloading speed, so crossbowmen don't even have to aim that good.

Regular Crossbow it he xbow that should be used by the majority of crossbows, same with Horn Bows for archers. 2 slot bows/xbows should be something that only skilled players can use effectively.

[B3RS3RK]

1. Shielder versus Archer - Ask Leoking or Mala or kinngrimm how they CAN kill an archer.

Yeah...Because skilled People with AT LEAST 15/24 Builds are to count as the regular player...Fail bro, Fail.

2. Twohander versus Archer - Ask Chase or Phase or hundred of other good players how you must play as Smart 2hander. Ask Thor or other polearmers too.

So you have to be one of the best players of your specific playstyle to be allowed to kill archers?Oh yeah, I see where you go there my old friendcher.

3. Cavalry versus Archer - Ask Leed, Ujin. or any of GK members how you must play against archers

First of all, Cavalry is the class with the least problems against single archers, and against multiple Archers I´ve seen all of the guys you named get raped hundreds of times...try harder.


Unsuccessfull troll is unsuccesfull.Or is he?

[Lactose_the_intolerant]

What annoys me as a shielder is to come up to an archer who has his bow drawn.

I thought first i would bump him but no. Archers just look on the side and will wait until they see you lowering your shield and sudenly spin in and fire. I call BS

[Tzar]

I actually find it quite amusing that both Gnjus and DaveUKR, which both were/are crossbow-lovers for long periods of time, now both are for nerfing ranged, while back then when everyone was for nerfing ranged they were defending the crossbows wholeheartedly.

Changing classes completely changes your perspective I guess.

Well thats how the balance section works allways have been a place for noobs and biased cunts to whine an ask for nerfs 

[Elmokki]

I'm playing the first gen where I don't have the spare wpf to take a crossbow with me with decent enough accuracy (and repair costs). In terms of score and winning this is a terrible build due to that. If I had sacrificed 3 str or agi I could've used crossbow very well and hiding on a roof with arbalest (since I use 1 slot 2h weapons anyway quite often) would've probably been a lot more beneficial to my team.

But then again I didn't play half of last gen with a crossbow since the sniping fest is often pretty boring.

I'm just saying, crossbows are so easy to spec into that unless you change it either there are going to be tons of melee-capable crossbowmen and normal crossbow using hybrids or crossbows will be rare especially as primary weapon.

I would also like to tell how much I detest every single archer not just running but also shooting at me while I chase them. Though due to that those who underestimate light armor and 7 ath with too low ath themselves tend to be surprised with a sword/axe/military sickle on the face when they turn to shoot and that is very satisfying. Oh, and the roof campfests are retarded too.