cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: rustyspoon on November 24, 2011, 07:43:41 am
-
So the devs have reduced the effectiveness of heirlooms across the board EXCEPT for armor. Why is that?
Fully loomed armor and gloves will give you +14 to armor. Doesn't that seem a little high? This combined with the armor soak changes have made it terribly frustrating to be a 1-hander. How about we reduce this ridiculous buff and stop the armor crutching.
I propose instead of armor heirlooms giving a bonus of +2/+2/+3 that it should be +1/+1/+2.
What say ye?
-
This a hundred million times.
Can't stress enough how effective it is having a loomed body armor+gloves.
Nerf this shit to +4 for lordly body armor and +3 for lordly gloves, lordly boots and lordly helms.
Rusty, make a yes/no poll?
-
"cough" ranged looms "cough"
Otherwise - Agreed.
-
Yeah, nerf it! Even tho i just wanted to start looming gloves + armor :mrgreen:
-
Voted yes. Armor looms are really broken at the moment. An individual should never survive more than four swings.
I say this as somebody with +3 plated mittens and +3 heraldic mail.
Personally I would like to see armor/gloves only gain 1 armor per heirloom.
-
I voted yes, cause i can :mrgreen:
Anywhat i am interested to see if some people who sport +3 armor/gloves will be supportive in this case. (Xcept the one above me)
-
+3 gloves and body armor.
I voted yes.
Of course I would love some warning first so I can sell them off to some sucker in order to buy +3 weapons instead since they will skyrocket in power.
-
Yeah, just as i got warned before my tears got nerfed to oblivion, naaaah, not going to happen :mrgreen:
-
Yeah, just as i got warned before my tears got nerfed to oblivion, naaaah, not going to happen :mrgreen:
I have my sources... :wink:
-
I have my sources... :wink:
mind sharing? i can share some STDs in return :mrgreen:
-
With the new soak values high armor points lost its edge so i say no you hardly see people glance at all unless they are completely retarded and cant do 1 decent swing or happen to be archers who skipped PS...
All i see on this forum is nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf......
Why not buff melee weapons instead maybe increasing the combat speed of the game since atm we have such a slow combat speed thx to the tons of nerfs...
-
Nearly 50% voted no, without one posting a valid reason why armor looms shouldn't be nerfed...
"but boo hoo I grinded my life on this game, I deserve another million armor points for that alone!!!!"
Keep armor crutching, noobs.
-
6 generations for 7 body armour? Meh, feel that's too little of a bonus. Some guy suggested that body armour gave +7 body armour while gloves should be made impossible to heirloom, and those points were returned. If so, you would get a maximum of +7 body armour, but it would only cost you the same 3 generations as it does now.
Also, while we're at it, nerf bow heirlooms to the ground.
-
I have everything lordly (boots, body, hands and head) and I agree with this. Armour heirlooms give too much of an advantage in melee fights against opponents who use CUT weapons. Especially if you roll STR build (unlike me who is agi phool).
But against pierce/blunt it doesn't matter really and against range it's almost ignored so...
... it's not a big deal since majority of the server are ranged (pierce), cav (pierce), pikemen (pierce).
Funny thing is that I wear that armour mainly because of ranged but protection from ranged is laughable. It only serve to piss off low PS one handers which wasn't my goal at all. I really do feel gay when some guy needs 10 hits to kill me...
Nerf those after you nerf armour looms :wink:
Edit: Another way for solving this matter would be either to:
1) buff effectiveness of cut weapons
2) buff damage multi for head hits
I'm more for the second option because I think that people who spam (hiltslash is spam as well) and who don't aim their swings don't deserve to deal epic damage.
-
Revert to bow determining the type of damange of archers and i am fine even with those looms :mrgreen:
-
Iam fine with armor heirlooms, really.Doesnt matter to me if I need to hit them twice or thrice.
-
Actually i wouldn´t mind if armor heirlooms would go forever.
Its ok for weapons but i dont think this mod needs armor heirlooms.
If chadz would decide to delete all armor heirlooms and give loompoints to the players
it would be ok. But on the other hand i wouldnt need any heirloom.
You just need them atm to stay on a lvl with the rest of the longterm players.
I voted yes and i am fully loomed (gen20).
-
You just need them atm to stay on a lvl with the rest of the longterm players.
Bolded the part where i see flaw in your statement. You do NOT need any looms to be competitive. I do quite fine time from time and up until recently i did not had any looms. (atm sporting +2horse, only loom i got, and got it only cause friend quit and gave it to me, and i do not have the heart not to use it, as i liked the guy quite a lot)
Gen 16.
-
Bolded the part where i see flaw in your statement. You do NOT need any looms to be competitive. I do quite fine time from time and up until recently i did not had any looms. (atm sporting +2horse, only loom i got, and got it only cause friend quit and gave it to me, and i do not have the heart not to use it, as i liked the guy quite a lot)
Gen 16.
I can get good stats without any looms too.
But if people are in are of similar skill they become more and more useful cause they can
give you the deciding glance or 1 more hit to take too.
I dont think that it makes a difference how you do on battleserver in general or how you do
on siege. There are plenty of people not having any looms. But it helps if you get to fight the good ones.
And some people with 80+ armor reaaally need those looms to survive. Those people dont even need to block but
can take 5-10 hits if they move smart.
-
And some people with 80+ armor reaaally need those looms to survive. Those people dont even need to block but
can take 5-10 hits if they move smart.
yeah, even tho only if they dont meet archers :mrgreen:
I agree that 1v1 on equally skilled opponents the looms probably will make a difference, but for the casual gamers or the guys that dont whore K/D it is perfectly playable even without :)
And tbh, i am actually quite surprised how the survivability changed, before i was rocking heavy IF builds, now i have barely three, and it feels i can sometimes even survive more :shock:
-
yeah, even tho only if they dont meet archers :mrgreen:
I agree that 1v1 on equally skilled opponents the looms probably will make a difference, but for the casual gamers or the guys that dont whore K/D it is perfectly playable even without :)
Yeah thats true.
Like i said its more to be competitive vs those on your lvl then being competitive in a general sense.
I still think that the game was better without heirlooms.
-
You dont need looms to be good, so they are ok.It might be a big advantage for some to have a full +3 plate suit, but still you can beat them rather easily with cleverness etc.
What I find especially important to stay are the Gauntlets heirlooms, because they are the only possibilitie to wear your favorite armor and have decent Stats(If you prefer the look of lighter armors).
For example:
I use the ragged outfit a lot atm(23 body armor), together with my thick mail gauntlets(8 body armor), those gauntlets will have 13 body armor when they are masterworked, which will add in up to a total of 37 Body armor, meaning I get the Protection of a lamellar vest for a slightly higher price!But I think that fine because I like the Ragged outfit a lot.
So if you nerfed the armor heirlooms on Gauntlets especially, my Equipment would get considerably worse, thus giving me a big disadvantage just because I go style over effectiveness.
-
You dont need looms to be good, so they are ok.It might be a big advantage for some to have a full +3 plate suit, but still you can beat them rather easily with cleverness etc.
What I find especially important to stay are the Gauntlets heirlooms, because they are the only possibilitie to wear your favorite armor and have decent Stats(If you prefer the look of lighter armors).
For example:
I use the ragged outfit a lot atm(23 body armor), together with my thick mail gauntlets(8 body armor), those gauntlets will have 13 body armor when they are masterworked, which will add in up to a total of 37 Body armor, meaning I get the Protection of a lamellar vest for a slightly higher price!But I think that fine because I like the Ragged outfit a lot.
So if you nerfed the armor heirlooms on Gauntlets especially, my Equipment would get considerably worse, thus giving me a big disadvantage just because I go style over effectiveness.
Arent you a lot faster ?
-
Yes Iam, but not that much that it would be the main purpose to wear a ragged outfit since Iam no Archer.
Point is, at the moment, I can wear most Armors if I like their look, and put on my Mail gauntlets making them somewhat more competetive.
If you take that away, more and more people will start wearing the same armors again.Because without my gauntlets, I would consider the tunic over mail(white, green or Red) the first armor with enough body protection to even bother wearing if I want to be at least a bit effective.
-
"cough" ranged looms "cough"
Otherwise - Agreed.
-
Voted yes. Armor looms are really broken at the moment. An individual should never survive more than four swings.
Ignorant blathering. "An individual should never survive more than 4 swings". Try getting more than 1 PS when hitting an armored player. If you didn't invest in Power Strike and Strength, then YES IT SHOULD TAKE YOU MORE THAN 4 SWINGS.
-
Personally i would nerf armor looms to +1 +1 +2 so 4 in total for every armor regardless of its starting stats.
would be more then enough.
-
I wouldnt loom any armor then because +4 is pretty much useless on anything else than light armor.
I´d prefer looming various weapons and shields then.
-
queted myself from another thread
Gloves +1 +2 +3
Body armour +1 +2 +4
Instead of +14 armour on a lordly set, you'll rather get +7. A lot more balanced, I would say.
Yeah, armor looms are most op thing in crpg, nowdays.
But your solution, bring a lot of whine from people with already all armor heirloomed and more importent +7 body armor are not worth of 6 gen retiring.
Fortunately i have ultimate solution. :)
Body armor stay with actual heirllooms values and gloves heirlooms will be cancelled.
So you can get +7 in 3 gen, still quite good and all people with already heirloomed gloves got their heirloom points back.
No more super fast tincans with +14 armor.
-
Personally i would nerf armor looms to +1 +1 +2 so 4 in total for every armor regardless of its starting stats.
would be more then enough.
Why would anyone loom his/her armor then? Totally useless.
-
Snip
So you're the one with the good idea. I'm all behind that idea. :)
-
The thing with armor looms is that it commits you to a single armor and outfit if you want full effectiveness, and that gives veteran players a 'look' people recognize and it increases the RPG factor of the game, which i think is a good thing.
If you nerfed armor looms noone would give a shit and we'd lose that aspect.
-
Archers and fairy´s with low ps will vote yes everyone else will vote no...
Pointsless thread...
That said armor looms where nerfed with the new soak values that Paul introduced way back that almost removed any sort of glancing blows...
All a fully set of loomed armor does now is make you survive 1 more hit
Offcourse if your a str whore you might be able to take 2 more hits but thats because of the IF and STR
Loomed helmets and boots doesn't rly do anything since you receive such a huge dmg boost when striking people in the head or leg that +7 armor rly doenst do much hence why people tend to loom it for last..
All i see here is another nerf nerf nerf thread
I think the reason the devs haven't or will nerf armor looms is because of what paul did with the new soak values thus making a nerf on armor looms pointless..
The biggest advantage used to be that people would glance of you noted that u had a good amount of armor but thats not the case anymore unless your Robocop aka georges but hes setup is also insane an not common due to a huge upkeep :lol:
-
Body armor stay with actual heirllooms values and gloves heirlooms will be cancelled.
Hell no!
Leave mah gloves as they are, I dare you!
Cancel Body armor Heirlooms if you want, or nerf them, but dont touch mo Gloves BIOTCH!
-
From this kato Guy I guess.
-
what kato guy lol
Last post on the site before this one here.
or his profile:
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php?action=profile;u=513
-
bla bla...
more blocking, less spamming and you will be ok
-
Most people who say Armor heirlooms arent ok dont have any.I bet it.
Or, if you like, nerf the armor heirlooms on the Heavy and the heavy-medium armors, but leave light ones and especially GAUNTLETS!
-
more blocking, less spamming and you will be ok
If you had said my writing wasn't good enough, fair enough, that's an opinion. But to say it's too complex for you to actually write something usefull back at it instead of random gibberish trying to insult me instead doesn't make for a good discussion. why dont you try again and say what you think about the subject which is about armor looms and not blocking and spamming.
-
If you had said my writing wasn't good enough, fair enough, that's an opinion. But to say it's too complex for you to actually write something usefull back at it instead of random gibberish trying to insult me instead doesn't make for a good discussion. why dont you try again and say what you think about the subject which is about armor looms and not blocking and spamming.
Already wrote my suggestion.
Basically I like to see this game skillbase as much as possible, and free hits after somebody glance on you not fit there (ofc it need some skill to make people glance, but still its random) and if somebody hit you 4+ times you deserve a die because you suck.
Nothing personal, i have different view on this, thats all. :wink:
-
Already wrote my suggestion.
Basically I like to see this game skillbase as much as possible, and free hits after somebody glance on you not fit there (ofc it need some skill to make people glance, but still its random) and if somebody hit you 4+ times you deserve a die because you suck.
Nothing personal, i have different view on this, thats all. :wink:
Thats because of iron flesh along with STR that makes people survive 4 hits.
My current setup is 74 body armor with that i get to take on regular basic about 2 to 3 hits if im lucky since i dont have any iron flesh and only 16 str NOTE: im talking about hits on the body not head or legs.
That 3rd hit is because of my heir loomed armor which is the result of retiring 6 times plus i really only wear that suit because of the look/style
On my old setup i had about 68 body armor and 21 str and 6 IF with that i could take 3-4 hits but that´s because of the increased HP that comes along with ironflesh and str. not armor heirlooms.
Paul have all ready fixed what was broken and that was the chance of glance being off the roof back before he changed the soak values.
If you really think that 14 body armor gloves and armor makes such a huge difference your wrong we are talking about 1 more hit.
Plz explain to me what would be the point of retiring 6 times to brag about having +8 body armor in total and not surviving that 1 extra hit?
In the end why nerf something which aren't broken :?:
Point of looming your armor n gloves are for that 1 extra hit you can take unless faced against a STR whore or bodkin arrows.
It used to be OP back when glancing blows was common now....... i dunno off course surviving 1 extra hit means something but its not something i would call a nerf for.
-
Yeah, just as i got warned before my tears got nerfed to oblivion, naaaah, not going to happen :mrgreen:
Posts like this make me curse my flag system... Keep thinking people are memtioning me, but nope... Forever alone :cry:
On topic: armour should be nerfed to a +4 and gloves to a +3 or 4. This would fix a lot in my opinion. At the very least a max of +5 from each not +7.
-
Most people who say Armor heirlooms arent ok dont have any.I bet it.
Or, if you like, nerf the armor heirlooms on the Heavy and the heavy-medium armors, but leave light ones and especially GAUNTLETS!
Uh I have fully loomed body and gloves and I have no problem admitting armor looms are ridiculous at the moment.
As for the rest, well, you're all biased/selfish aka don't want your shit to get nerfed.
-
When Final Boss finish that project of his and it finally gets implemented stat bonuses should be removed from loomed gear.
Items in this game are pretty balanced, but looming totally fucks up that balance.
+3 on pierce weapon is like +7 on cut
+14 on body armour is too much
+6 pierce on ranged weapons is just silly
-
Uh I have fully loomed body and gloves and I have no problem admitting armor looms are ridiculous at the moment.
As for the rest, well, you're all biased/selfish aka don't want your shit to get nerfed.
I have x3 heirloomed weapons, x3 heirloomed armor, x3 heirloomed gloves, etc
I have been saying since it was introduced that heirlooms are just a stupid idea in general that leads to imbalance issues and feelings of inequality and butthurtedness. And what have we had since they've been introduced? Yeah.
-
I crutch armor, people still kill me in 3 well placed strikes. Armor means nothing vs very good players. I use armor so that the noobs and archers don't kill me before another autoblocker comes and kills me. I'll be fine with an armor nerf as long as something is done about the bodkins flying everywhere, because i wouldn't mind having my GLA deal more damage :).
-
I crutch armor, people still kill me in 3 well placed strikes. Armor means nothing vs very good players. I use armor so that the noobs and archers don't kill me before another autoblocker comes and kills me. I'll be fine with an armor nerf as long as something is done about the bodkins flying everywhere, because i wouldn't mind having my GLA deal more damage :).
Everything you said is pretty accurate, but the bolded part made me giggle. :)
Armor heirlooms + str build = retarded
Armor heirlooms + balanced or agi build = surviving 1 extra swing or maybe 2 projectiles more.
-
Uh I have fully loomed body and gloves and I have no problem admitting armor looms are ridiculous at the moment.
As for the rest, well, you're all biased/selfish aka don't want your shit to get nerfed.
I said most:And yes, I dont want my shit to get nerfed, because the only armor loom I got are +1 mail gauntlets :rolleyes:
Why do you want to change a game mechanic which clearly isnt the problem right now?Why do People still complain about getting 1- to 2 hit by Archers if Loomed armor is so OP?
If you go Full str with heirloomed Plate its really strong, but you will lack other things.
I can kill anyone given the right conditions with just my Footwork(Well, everyone of equal or lesser skill), even if they wear better armor or have way more heirlooms than me.
-
I have +3 heraldic armor and +3 mail mittens and i still think that armor heirlooms are op and need to be nerfed.
Also, arrows and bows heirlooms are op and need to be nerfed too (and pierce/blunt heirlooms on melee weapons - i have red tessel spear +3).
-
Yeah, just nerf all looms to the ground or remove them entirely to give the mod the needed rest to kill him.
-
Yes, it.My bad :D
-
Why do People still complain about getting 1- to 2 hit by Archers if Loomed armor is so OP?
Loomed armor is OP mostly to cut damage and the fact that you can still move fast while having +14 body armor.
Archers 2 shotting loomed armor, well... that's another problem.
-
Archers 2 shotting loomed armor, well... that's another problem.
isnt it because archery has different soack values then melee?
If you take away the loom benefits, change archery soak values?
But i recall our mad scientist paul just saying plain no
-
Loomed armor is OP mostly to cut damage and the fact that you can still move fast while having +14 body armor.
Archers 2 shotting loomed armor, well... that's another problem.
Weird, because I dont seem to have any Problems with cutting damage, against loomed armor or not.
Ofc cut will sometimes bounce off people like Georges, hell, anything sometimes bounces of Georges!
but generally, if you aren´t a Skillless retard, most hits WILL damage.
Also, iam totally fine with loomed armor.Having a Full Body set means 4-5 Gens hard work.This is a fair lot if I compare it with what I have accomplished.Iam gen3, short before gen4, and I played Warband for 655 hours of which more than the half are for cRPG.
For far over 300 Hours of gametime, I think I can expect to have a slight advantage in Gear in an RPG like cRPG where there is a feature like retiring.
And if Cut damage is so UP against looms, how come I see so many guys running around with Danish/Tears and shielders with Swords?
How come they dont just all take blunt and Pierce weapons?
-
Also, iam totally fine with loomed armor.Having a Full Body set means 4-5 Gens hard work.This is a fair lot if I compare it with what I have accomplished.Iam gen3, short before gen4, and I played Warband for 655 hours of which more than the half are for cRPG.
For far over 300 Hours of gametime, I think I can expect to have a slight advantage in Gear in an RPG like cRPG where there is a feature like retiring.
nice numbers u got there mate :)
1316 hours played for me, fresh gen 17, gonna go for gen 23 just to get loomed gloves + armor probably :)
-
I know I didnt reach much :oops: No need to embarass me :D
Still you obviously COULD have already had a Fully loomed Armor set(Hell, you could have almost TWO!)and a lot of weapons since you are gen 17 :D
I just set the "Far over 300 hours of gametime" as the time needed to reach a full Body loomset if you use all your Loompoints, not that I expect to have an advantage especially.Im fine right now because my Gloves will be +2 in some hours when I retire, What I meant was that if I have a Fully loomed Armor suit I ought to have a slight advantage over others that dont have looms at all.I mean , you are the best example that you dont need to have looms to be awesome mate :D you can always compensate with skill.
-
I know I didnt reach much :oops: No need to embarass me :D
Still you obviously COULD have already had a Fully loomed Armor set(Hell, you could have almost TWO!)and a lot of weapons since you are gen 17 :D
I just set the "Far over 300 hours of gametime" as the time needed to reach a full Body loomset if you use all your Loompoints, not that I expect to have an advantage especially.Im fine right now because my Gloves will be +2 in some hours when I retire, What I meant was that if I have a Fully loomed Armor suit I ought to have a slight advantage over others that dont have looms at all.I mean , you are the best example that you dont need to have looms to be awesome mate :D you can always compensate with skill.
thanks man, even tho recently i feel like i could use a loom or two :mrgreen: but, ill just grind em if ill want em :mrgreen:
But really its fun when you run around with some blunt/pierce and just rape anyone with any gear, that is the most satisfying thing that can happen :)
-
Yeah I know lol.
I love to kill heavily armored Guys with my Boar spear, stunning and poking them to death.
-
Yeah I know lol.
I love to kill heavily armored Guys with my Boar spear, stunning and poking them to death.
or the most epic lvl 1 hammer kills :mrgreen: just BAM
-
Many of you think that armour looms are not overpowered because you think you can outwit and outsmart those incompetent fools with their fancy dancy heirloomed armour.
Please remove this silly fallacy from your head.
No one worries about noobs with looms.
-
You also seem to forget that 1 armor loom is about as effective as 1 weapon loom. Except that you can get 2 body armor looms (body + gloves) while most weapons (except bows / crossbows) get only 1. The real issue imo is that offense doesn't get as many looms as defense. There should be another way of increasing melee / throwing weps through heirlooming, in order to make them as effective as armor looms.
I don't see the point of nerfing armor looms though. They're fine. They barely do anything against pierce and blunt weapons, which you're already supposed to use against tincans.
-
You also seem to forget that 1 armor loom is about as effective as 1 weapon loom. Except that you can get 2 body armor looms (body + gloves) while most weapons (except bows / crossbows) get only 1. The real issue imo is that offense doesn't get as many looms as defense. There should be another way of increasing melee / throwing weps through heirlooming, in order to make them as effective as armor looms.
I don't see the point of nerfing armor looms though. They're fine. They barely do anything against pierce and blunt weapons, which you're already supposed to use against tincans.
Every new loomed armor makes pierce and blunt better and nerfs cut.
-
Also, armor gets only 1 attribute improved with looming while melee weapons also get speed increase on the last loom.
Again, it's pretty realistic that there is more room for improvement for something that is big as whole human body with weight of 20+kg, than there is for something that is narrow, long and only 2.5kg heavy.
As far as offense goes, I think players should learn how to effectively deal with +3 tin cans, rather than adjusting the game so everyone can be effective, but this is matter for the "Beginner's Help and Guides".
Realism is not a great way to balance a multiplayer game.
There is no "effective way" to deal with lordly armor.
-
The only reason to go full plate was glancing, now that this has been severly reduced, full plate is no longer worth its money. I have a set with 83 body armor, but even 1h cut doesn't glance on it anymore.
-
Please remove this silly fallacy from your head.
No one worries about noobs with looms.
I dont really worry about "Pros" with looms either.
People like Chase and such would kill me without loomed armor and Weapons just aswell as they do with them.
And if I happen to kill them, that 14 Body armor more isnt a world.
-
no1 will retire or buy loom point for fukin +1 defence. only poors voted yes
-
Realism is not a great way to balance a multiplayer game.
There is no "effective way" to deal with lordly armor.
Hit the head, most people don't have their helmet loomed (and even if they do, it doesn't change much).
Otherwise, you've got bec, morningstar, great maul or steel pick, which are probably the best tincan openers of their category.
I agree heirlooms nerf cut more than pierce, but it's the way it is. Cut weapons already have a lot of advantages over pierce / blunt weapons, they can't be the best at everything.
-
and there's a point, real characters (str based or balanced) can kill me with 3 hits even i have lordly milanese plate, gauntlet, helmet. Only agi noobs glances on me. People wants to be fastest and strongest. it's impossible. if you wanna kill people do not make 24-27 agi characters.
-
Yep.With 6 PS I never glanced yet, except for 2 times on Georges(Using a Spear/Boar spear)
-
NO
-
Hit the head, most people don't have their helmet loomed (and even if they do, it doesn't change much).
Otherwise, you've got bec, morningstar, great maul or steel pick, which are probably the best tincan openers of their category.
I agree heirlooms nerf cut more than pierce, but it's the way it is. Cut weapons already have a lot of advantages over pierce / blunt weapons, they can't be the best at everything.
Helmet looms do make it harder to kill someone by hitting their head, obviously. Plus hitting the head is harder than hitting the body. And that's hardly a counter. Hitting the head is always better.
All those weapons are short and/or have other negative side-effects. You see, it'd be fine if only tin cans had absurd amounts of armor. But it's not like that, which is the problem. Short weapons suck against someone with a longer weapon and good mobility... and seeing as you can wear 14 weight armors and get 70+ armor rating, well....
-
Tincans can move suprisingly fast too..
-
I cant believe al the hate for armor looms..I know for fact that Vibe and Xant are good players, but that makes it only more weird...
Iam average at best and I never had any problems with Tincans loomed or unloomed, nor did I have problems with loomed armors in general, I just fight and kill them.
-
Tincans can move suprisingly fast too..
Yeah I'm a fast tincan. But high agility is good for two things, chasing cowards (ranged) and being a coward myself (running away). In duel higher agi almost means nothing if the opponent is semi-skilled and in fights vs group of enemies you'll still be poked by spears/pikes. Agi builds are fun but I think I would be much more efficient with 24/18 build instead of 18/24.
-
I cant believe al the hate for armor looms..I know for fact that Vibe and Xant are good players, but that makes it only more weird...
Iam average at best and I never had any problems with Tincans loomed or unloomed, nor did I have problems with loomed armors in general, I just fight and kill them.
There's two problems with lordly armor as I see it:
1) One player has it, one doesn't. Assume equal skill. Sir Unloomed hits the loomed guy four times, he doesn't die. Loomed guy hits Sir Unloomed twice, Unloomed guy dies. That shit gets any competitively minded player pissed.
2) Both players have lordly armors. Game speed is currently pretty slow and recent updates have only worked to make it slower, so fighting is a lot more forgiving. Add in to this lordly armor and both players can make plenty of mistakes before dying, making duels last forever.
-
There's two problems with lordly armor as I see it:
1) One player has it, one doesn't. Assume equal skill. Sir Christo hits the loomed guy four times, he doesn't die. Loomed guy hits Sir Christo twice, Unloomed guy dies. That shit gets any competitively minded player pissed.
Absolutely, this is what I've experienced all the time. I was pissed.
-
Well, I can understand those 2 Points.
but to 1: They Way I see this, the Player with the loomed armor put more work into his char than the guy who doesnt have any(Of course there are exceptions like Tepes, but mostly it will be the case)or few.In the context of cRPG being an RPG with competetive Multiplayer, its very tricky.Because in an RPG, more work means and should mean an advantage over those who dont spent so much work on their chars.In a competetive game Advantages are obviously a flaw.
So The Dev team would basically have to decide if their mod is more about an Multiplayer RPG or about a competetive and even chances game.
-
Helmet looms do make it harder to kill someone by hitting their head, obviously. Plus hitting the head is harder than hitting the body. And that's hardly a counter. Hitting the head is always better.
All those weapons are short and/or have other negative side-effects. You see, it'd be fine if only tin cans had absurd amounts of armor. But it's not like that, which is the problem. Short weapons suck against someone with a longer weapon and good mobility... and seeing as you can wear 14 weight armors and get 70+ armor rating, well....
Hitting the head is indeed always better, and it works very well against tincans too. Even with a loomed helmet, you'll usually die from a crossbow headshot (unless you've got loomed gothic with bevor + armet and 10 IF). My point is that it's still possible to kill a loomed tincan with 2-3 melee hits if you aim well, although it's obviously much harder than with med inf (but that's the point of armor anyway).
I understand armor looms might be an issue with people running around with lordly sarranid guard & hourglass gauntlets while still being fast, but armor looms shouldn't be nerfed for everyone just because it's an issue with a few armors in the 40-50 range. If needed, increase the weight of loomed armors, but don't nerf the survivability of full plate wearers if they aren't the ones causing the problem.
-
There's two problems with lordly armor as I see it:
1) One player has it, one doesn't. Assume equal skill. Sir Unloomed hits the loomed guy four times, he doesn't die. Loomed guy hits Sir Unloomed twice, Unloomed guy dies. That shit gets any competitively minded player pissed.
2) Both players have lordly armors. Game speed is currently pretty slow and recent updates have only worked to make it slower, so fighting is a lot more forgiving. Add in to this lordly armor and both players can make plenty of mistakes before dying, making duels last forever.
99% of players die when hit four times in the head with held swings, overheads. With 6 PS I have to aim for the head, otherwise I would need not four, rather six or more hits in the body to kill average player.
-
Not sure what the point you're trying to make is, though? You'll hardly be hitting skilled players four times in a row with held overheads. They'll probably catch onto your cunning plan by the third held overhead at the least.
-
99% of players die when hit four times in the head with held swings, overheads. With 6 PS I have to aim for the head, otherwise I would need not four, rather six or more hits in the body to kill average player.
Lolwut Leshma?That cant be because I already kill most Enemies in 3-4 Hits with my Spear Oo
-
Lolwut Leshma?That cant be because I already kill most Enemies in 3-4 Hits with my Spear Oo
"Most enemies" AREN'T THE ISSUE.
EDIT: FORGIVE ME
-
Lolwut Leshma?That cant be because I already kill most Enemies in 3-4 Hits with my Spear Oo
Bamboo spear, right? Someone with 9 or 10 PS can one hit me with that thing. Guys using my weapon (MW Danish) need at least 3 body hits to put me down.
Edit: I've mixed up long awlpike and bamboo spear. Lawlpike can one hit me, not bamboo. Sorry about that.
Not sure what the point you're trying to make is, though? You'll hardly be hitting skilled players four times in a row with held overheads. They'll probably catch onto your cunning plan by the third held overhead at the least.
Of course. But I'm not doing overheads all the time. But about 75% of my released attacks finish in someones head (swings, overheads and even stabs). I have to aim for the head, otherwise I wouldn't be able to kill the amount of people I usually kill per round.
Difference between cut and pierce damage is vast. And looming only makes it worse. And as I already said, only people who use weapons with cut damage have problem with armour looms. Majority simply don't give a fuck because they have pierce damage on their bolts, arrows, lances, spears and pikes.
-
Bamboo spear, right?
Nope, simply spear.A +1 Spear.
Poke, sideswing, poke, sideswing, Poke and they are dead.
-
It does not work this way. Most duels I saw from in duels server last under 30 seconds. If people are low skilled they only do block, attack, block, attack, until one player makes a mistake.
Once you put in feinting, kicking, hitslashing, chamber blocking, attack holding/chambering, plain old crazy mouse movement frenzy, jumping and what not, than the things become more unpredictable. Warband is that kind of game where you will never top your skill, if you play it long enough. CRPG just adds a lot more variables like different armor, diferent armor looms, diff. weapon looms, diff. stats, making it even more unpredictable.
BTW, OP already made a thread about nerfing STR chars, now this one... I'm not sure what vision of CRPG has.. I wouldn't want CRPG to turn into some kind of hentai 1 vs 30 battles, where that one guy slices trough medium armor like trough butter.
Yes, it does work that way. More and more people are getting good enough to easily block that stuff. I don't bother with crazy feints and chambers much anymore because they're getting pretty pointless against the good players. It's kind of funny because now that the average 'good' skill has progressed it's went back to the basics. All about distance control and outlasting your opponent with basic attacks.
-
No it doesnt.In Battle, Duels seldom take longer than 30 seconds, just because of Teammates helping the one or the other side.
And that´s how it should be.Skill doesnt matter much if you got a good team.
On Duel servers...Well yes, it can take a long time there.So what, longer duels mean better duels :D
-
No it doesnt.In Battle, Duels seldom take longer than 30 seconds, just because of Teammates helping the one or the other side.
And that´s how it should be.Skill doesnt matter much if you got a good team.
On Duel servers...Well yes, it can take a long time there.So what, longer duels mean better duels :D
Only if blocking is novelty for you and you get excited when two guys block each other for 5 minutes. Otherwise, it's dull.
-
Actually, the longer a duel goes, the more it proves that the opponents are of equal skill, and the tension increases, the chance to make a mistake increases and youre sitting in front of your PC totally frozen with Sweat on your face because oyu dont want to lose.
At least thats how it goes for me.
-
Xant: So, duels last forever when you are using only basics of warband combat? Makes no sense to me.
Yep. Duels between good players only end fast if the other one tries some fancy stuff and gets caught off-guard. With lordly armor they can afford to do that once or twice, though. Can't helpya if you still don't understand.
-
then let them afford to do so.
Lowering Armor loom bonus would be plain bullshit because then you had no Reason to retire besides Weapons.
This would mean you would be pretty much finished with looming after 5-6 gens.
People that play longer and retire more > People that dont play so much and dont retire at all.
It´s RPG style.
-
Armor looms nerfed. Awww yiss.
-
WHAT THE FUCK!GLOVE ARMOR REDUCED + HEIRLOOM NERF ON GLOVES BUT BODY ARMOR GOES UNTOUCHED?FUCKING KIDDING ME?WHAT KIND OF GAY FUCKING NOOB MOTHERFUCKER MOD IS THIS RAGERAGERAGERAGERAGERAGERAGE
-
:D
-
body armor got nerfed the same way ...
Well i watched mainly for the Armors that interest me, meaning the White tunic over mail, which stays pretty much untouched due to the armor buff it got.
-
Well, I wished for a harder nerf but I guess it's a step forward.
-
I agree with you Vibe but I almost forget that you're hiltslasher. How about we nerf that next time? :P
-
Well, I wished for a harder nerf but I guess it's a step forward.
If we nerf even harder, we can just remove armor heirlooms in a whole....
-
Yeah, but it would be rather gay looking and an Archer fest.
-
EDIT: WTF MY BODY ARMOR IS FUCKING USELESS NOW WTF WTF RAGE RAGE WTF OH MY GOD :D
:cry: :shock: :cry: :shock: :cry: :shock: :cry: :shock: :cry: :shock:
-
Tbh other than less glancing on my armour (which is unfair to the opponent anyways) I really don't feel the change. I just need to stop being lazy and start blocking like true warrior once more :)
-
I agree with you Vibe but I almost forget that you're hiltslasher. How about we nerf that next time? :P
I wouldn't mind. I have a million other tricks up my sleeve yo
-
If there's one thing Vibe won't run out of it's tricks yo
But why the fuck would you remove hiltslash? Make the combat even more simple? zzzzzz.
-
A lot of people also can't tell a difference between normal spam and hiltslash. Nowadays I rarely hiltslash, I do quite a lot of smart spam (w/ footwork) though. Works like a charm against good players.
-
Yes. A lot of players also think they're doing some awesome hiltslashing when they're just spamming.
-
I wouldn't mind. I have a million other tricks up my sleeve yo
Orly? Will have to hire your grace for hefty amount of gold to teach me how to deal with annoying Quickscytche :mad:
-
It does not work this way. Most duels I saw from in duels server last under 30 seconds. If people are low skilled they only do block, attack, block, attack, until one player makes a mistake.
Once you put in feinting, kicking, hitslashing, chamber blocking, attack holding/chambering, plain old crazy mouse movement frenzy, jumping and what not, than the things become more unpredictable. Warband is that kind of game where you will never top your skill, if you play it long enough. CRPG just adds a lot more variables like different armor, diferent armor looms, diff. weapon looms, diff. stats, making it even more unpredictable.
Just because this video is so fitting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Bs9bVjMaC8
That's how it feels like to do a lot of fancy feints against good players. Used to work, doesn't anymore.