Armor heirlooms

[Christo]

There's two problems with lordly armor as I see it:

1) One player has it, one doesn't. Assume equal skill. Sir Christo hits the loomed guy four times, he doesn't die. Loomed guy hits Sir Christo twice, Unloomed guy dies. That shit gets any competitively minded player pissed.

Absolutely, this is what I've experienced all the time. I was pissed.

[B3RS3RK]

Well, I can understand those 2 Points.

but to 1: They Way I see this, the Player with the loomed armor put more work into his char than the guy who doesnt have any(Of course there are exceptions like Tepes, but mostly it will be the case)or few.In the context of cRPG being an RPG with competetive Multiplayer, its very tricky.Because in an RPG, more work means and should mean an advantage over those who dont spent so much work on their chars.In a competetive game Advantages are obviously a flaw.

So The Dev team would basically have to decide if their mod is more about an Multiplayer RPG or about a competetive and even chances game.

[Deathwhisper]

Helmet looms do make it harder to kill someone by hitting their head, obviously. Plus hitting the head is harder than hitting the body. And that's hardly a counter. Hitting the head is always better.

All those weapons are short and/or have other negative side-effects. You see, it'd be fine if only tin cans had absurd amounts of armor. But it's not like that, which is the problem. Short weapons suck against someone with a longer weapon and good mobility... and seeing as you can wear 14 weight armors and get 70+ armor rating, well....

Hitting the head is indeed always better, and it works very well against tincans too. Even with a loomed helmet, you'll usually die from a crossbow headshot (unless you've got loomed gothic with bevor + armet and 10 IF). My point is that it's still possible to kill a loomed tincan with 2-3 melee hits if you aim well, although it's obviously much harder than with med inf (but that's the point of armor anyway).

I understand armor looms might be an issue with people running around with lordly sarranid guard & hourglass gauntlets while still being fast, but armor looms shouldn't be nerfed for everyone just because it's an issue with a few armors in the 40-50 range. If needed, increase the weight of loomed armors, but don't nerf the survivability of full plate wearers if they aren't the ones causing the problem.

[Leshma]

There's two problems with lordly armor as I see it:

1) One player has it, one doesn't. Assume equal skill. Sir Unloomed hits the loomed guy four times, he doesn't die. Loomed guy hits Sir Unloomed twice, Unloomed guy dies. That shit gets any competitively minded player pissed.

2) Both players have lordly armors. Game speed is currently pretty slow and recent updates have only worked to make it slower, so fighting is a lot more forgiving. Add in to this lordly armor and both players can make plenty of mistakes before dying, making duels last forever.

99% of players die when hit four times in the head with held swings, overheads. With 6 PS I have to aim for the head, otherwise I would need not four, rather six or more hits in the body to kill average player.

[Xant]

Not sure what the point you're trying to make is, though? You'll hardly be hitting skilled players four times in a row with held overheads. They'll probably catch onto your cunning plan by the third held overhead at the least.

[B3RS3RK]

99% of players die when hit four times in the head with held swings, overheads. With 6 PS I have to aim for the head, otherwise I would need not four, rather six or more hits in the body to kill average player.

Lolwut Leshma?That cant be because I already kill most Enemies in 3-4 Hits with my Spear Oo

[Dezilagel]

Lolwut Leshma?That cant be because I already kill most Enemies in 3-4 Hits with my Spear Oo

"Most enemies" AREN'T THE ISSUE.

EDIT: FORGIVE ME

[Leshma]

Lolwut Leshma?That cant be because I already kill most Enemies in 3-4 Hits with my Spear Oo

Bamboo spear, right? Someone with 9 or 10 PS can one hit me with that thing. Guys using my weapon (MW Danish) need at least 3 body hits to put me down.

Edit: I've mixed up long awlpike and bamboo spear. Lawlpike can one hit me, not bamboo. Sorry about that.

Not sure what the point you're trying to make is, though? You'll hardly be hitting skilled players four times in a row with held overheads. They'll probably catch onto your cunning plan by the third held overhead at the least.

Of course. But I'm not doing overheads all the time. But about 75% of my released attacks finish in someones head (swings, overheads and even stabs). I have to aim for the head, otherwise I wouldn't be able to kill the amount of people I usually kill per round.

Difference between cut and pierce damage is vast. And looming only makes it worse. And as I already said, only people who use weapons with cut damage have problem with armour looms. Majority simply don't give a fuck because they have pierce damage on their bolts, arrows, lances, spears and pikes.

[B3RS3RK]

Bamboo spear, right?

Nope, simply spear.A +1 Spear.


Poke, sideswing, poke, sideswing, Poke and they are dead.

[Xant]

It does not work this way. Most duels I saw from in duels server last under 30 seconds. If people are low skilled they only do block, attack, block, attack, until one player makes a mistake.

Once you put in feinting, kicking, hitslashing, chamber blocking, attack holding/chambering, plain old crazy mouse movement frenzy, jumping and what not, than the things become more unpredictable. Warband is that kind of game where you will never top your skill, if you play it long enough. CRPG just adds a lot more variables like different armor, diferent armor looms, diff. weapon looms, diff. stats, making it even more unpredictable.

BTW, OP already made a thread about nerfing STR chars, now this one... I'm not sure what vision of CRPG has.. I wouldn't want CRPG to turn into some kind of hentai 1 vs 30 battles, where that one guy slices trough medium armor like trough butter.

Yes, it does work that way. More and more people are getting good enough to easily block that stuff. I don't bother with crazy feints and chambers much anymore because they're getting pretty pointless against the good players. It's kind of funny because now that the average 'good' skill has progressed it's went back to the basics. All about distance control and outlasting your opponent with basic attacks.

[B3RS3RK]

No it doesnt.In Battle, Duels seldom take longer than 30 seconds, just because of Teammates helping the one or the other side.

And that´s how it should be.Skill doesnt matter much if you got a good team.

On Duel servers...Well yes, it can take a long time there.So what, longer duels mean better duels

[Leshma]

No it doesnt.In Battle, Duels seldom take longer than 30 seconds, just because of Teammates helping the one or the other side.

And that´s how it should be.Skill doesnt matter much if you got a good team.

On Duel servers...Well yes, it can take a long time there.So what, longer duels mean better duels

Only if blocking is novelty for you and you get excited when two guys block each other for 5 minutes. Otherwise, it's dull.

[B3RS3RK]

Actually, the longer a duel goes, the more it proves that the opponents are of equal skill, and the tension increases, the chance to make a mistake increases and youre sitting in front of your PC totally frozen with Sweat on your face because oyu dont want to lose.

At least thats how it goes for me.

[Xant]

Xant: So, duels last forever when you are using only basics of warband combat? Makes no sense to me.

Yep. Duels between good players only end fast if the other one tries some fancy stuff and gets caught off-guard. With lordly armor they can afford to do that once or twice, though. Can't helpya if you still don't understand.

[B3RS3RK]

then let them afford to do so.

Lowering Armor loom bonus would be plain bullshit because then you had no Reason to retire besides Weapons.

This would mean you would be pretty much finished with looming after 5-6 gens.

People that play longer and retire more > People that dont play so much and dont retire at all.

It´s RPG style.