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Strategus => Strategus General Discussion => Topic started by: Keshian on October 24, 2011, 06:08:55 pm

Title: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Keshian on October 24, 2011, 06:08:55 pm
One thing I dont get was the massive gold nerf and increased gold cost for items.  In most of strat 2.0 we were fighting with low-mid tier armor, rounceys for our cavalry, lower end 1hers and 2hers with maybe a few mid-tier weapons in short supply.  Why the massive nerf???? 

Now we will permanently and forever not have more than 2-4 rounceys or sumpters in battles involving 500-1000 troops.  Its gone a little too extreme and has completely nullified an entire class for strategus.  Im an archer and dislike cavalry, but this is fricken ridiculous and unbalanced.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Plaksteris on October 24, 2011, 06:36:10 pm
Learn to get money! MOAR TEAMWORK FOR CLANS!
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Keshian on October 24, 2011, 06:42:28 pm
You get money, but the amount available to even get basic armor nullifies available gold for more than 2 horses at best even with crafting skill (and msot people dont have crafting skill in the roucneys and sumpters - more armored horses, coursers and arabians).  Even going naked you only can get 5-6 more horses for a 500 man army that way, which disappear qucikly with unarmored riders.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: serr on October 24, 2011, 06:50:50 pm
I think, with new upkeep system you will not be able to have huge armies, so after you capture all villages on your claims, you will accumulate money and big wars between factions will be with medium equipment and horses.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Keshian on October 24, 2011, 07:05:06 pm
The thing is acquiring troops is pretty easy and up to 50 per person no upkeep and redcued upkeep in villages you own.  What we will likely continue to see is hordes of poorly armed and armored peasants for all of strategus and never a decent cavalry force.  Throwing 6 500 man armies one after the other more effective than 1 500 mana rmy with better gear.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Turboflex on October 24, 2011, 07:07:11 pm
I think, with new upkeep system you will not be able to have huge armies, so after you capture all villages on your claims, you will accumulate money and big wars between factions will be with medium equipment and horses.

Kind of agree here. Right now the game is in a phase where people are claiming fiefs and the best way to do that seems to be to with massing up enough low quality gear/soldiers to win by attrition even if the random defenders do a really solid job.

Also it didn't help that smithing skill wasn't working properly for horses so nobody has any significant levels to craft at discount.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Ozin on October 24, 2011, 08:15:50 pm
Bring back the lance of compensation for strategus battles only! Seriously, it would make the game a lot more interesting.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Sir_Ironlake on October 24, 2011, 08:18:22 pm
ehhh guys
its like the first days of strategus, what do you expect, knight armies?
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Keshian on October 24, 2011, 08:19:55 pm
ehhh guys
its like the first days of strategus, what do you expect, knight armies?

We are about a month in you realize right???? and the planned wipe and switchover to new maps and changed features is 6-8 months in (at least cahdz posted that)??
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: SPQR on October 24, 2011, 08:32:49 pm
ehhh guys
its like the first days of strategus, what do you expect, knight armies?

By this time last strategus every village was taken, most clans had a couple thousands troops, and several wars had popped off.

So far this strategus there have been a couple peasant-on-peasant village fights and thats it.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Darkkarma on October 24, 2011, 08:45:26 pm
By this time last strategus every village was taken, most clans had a couple thousands troops, and several wars had popped off.

So far this strategus there have been a couple peasant-on-peasant village fights and thats it.

I think that given how much has changed from last strat in the way money is made, and how central having money is now, it's to be expected. I actually like the new trade concept and how it really does force diplomacy with neighboring factions in many ways. I think that once everything really gets going, this strat will be really interesting and fun.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Konrax on October 24, 2011, 08:58:40 pm
It just came out and people are freaking out.

I'm sure it will work out fine.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Rikthor on October 24, 2011, 08:59:16 pm
It's been out for close to a month, that's not just came out.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Turboflex on October 24, 2011, 09:32:30 pm
Well guys let's not forget this is still a beta test.

This new economic system is still rudimentry and full of placeholders but it is the backbone of more complexity to come so from chadz' and the other devs' perspectives it makes sense for them to want to have it moving slowly and they seem to be purposefully throwing up brakes to keep it slow (jacking up NPC town defence #s and gear prices).

They can monitor resource progress, balance easily, and quash bugs quickly. If this was accelerated and all kinds of shit started coming up requiring a wipe or more rollbacks then people unhappy with this pacing would be even more unhappy.



Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Cosmos_Shielder on October 24, 2011, 10:38:29 pm
Is it possible to craft a horse?
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Gimest on October 24, 2011, 10:51:54 pm
Darn you peopple saying that month is long time, for a thing like strategus, month is just the beginning. How would u imagine the game and its economy system to ever last if everything would be aquired in a month?
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Dehitay on October 24, 2011, 11:07:28 pm
Darn you peopple saying that month is long time, for a thing like strategus, month is just the beginning. How would u imagine the game and its economy system to ever last if everything would be aquired in a month?
I would assume it would work like last Strategus which was rather fun, and the economy was running with few complaints (the biggest being that castles didn't really have a strong economical use).
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Gristle on October 24, 2011, 11:25:05 pm
This long in last strat, FCC was having lots of fun in a war already. It might take us another 2 months to start a war having fun this time!
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Zaharist on October 24, 2011, 11:41:48 pm
I would assume it would work like last Strategus which was rather fun, and the economy was running with few complaints (the biggest being that castles didn't really have a strong economical use).
are you serious?
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Casimir on October 25, 2011, 12:42:38 am
Cavalry has always been relatively weak in strategus, not offering great value for money and not worth using on mass.


With the slower income of gold and the increase in prices cavalry has become an even weaker link in a military chain.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: SPQR on October 25, 2011, 01:36:40 am
Crossbow builds are pretty much gonna be obsolete too.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Dehitay on October 25, 2011, 02:12:34 am
are you serious?
Damn, you got me.

Yeah, last Strat, we were too busy having boring battles that we couldn't make a single player work for an entire week merely to get the funds just to pay for the 24 hour upkeep prior to a village attack for an army of a valid enough size to win. And damn did it suck to have a well balanced mix of mediocre equipment when all this time we could have been focusing on which half decent item we were going to splurge on for this attack. Being able to give cav and xbow builds a ticket or two to use their builds during the beginning of Strat was probly one of the stupidest mistakes we made as well.

And don't get me started on how much everybody hated the economy. I saw people in plate armor so much that I actually had to use my second hand to start counting them all. The whining over the market was so non-stop that the exploiting was barely noticeable in comparison. FCC crap equipment bombing was drowned out by "Why can everybody afford to equip soldiers in mail? This sux!" The retreat abuse couldn't be heard over "The 600 man army that attacked my village had 30 horses; that's BS!"
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Flawless on October 25, 2011, 02:14:04 am
or cav is elite now
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Beans on October 25, 2011, 03:42:58 am
Darn you peopple saying that month is long time, for a thing like strategus, month is just the beginning. How would u imagine the game and its economy system to ever last if everything would be aquired in a month?

Considering it will be wiped and start over eventually, planing for some long term forever scenario is not good.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Thax on October 25, 2011, 06:09:14 am
If the game didnt have so many multiple accounters then chadz wouldnt have implemented such a shitty system.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Vibe on October 25, 2011, 09:08:39 am
Completely agree. It's not just cav, everything is slower and more boring.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: buba on October 25, 2011, 12:08:40 pm
In our clan as you might expect, we have several people who can make horses with alot of discount.
But like someone said above rouncys are not among the top to craft.
but we can still make them for a decent amount of gold/time.

I do think its a tad to hard to make horses, but on the other hand for us its a great trading product.
And becouse of our cav only clan, will be one of the few who will be able to field a decent amount of horses in strat.
Making the differnces in clans visible by the items they can craft well is a feature that i really like about this version of strat.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Overdriven on October 25, 2011, 12:33:18 pm
Like Buba said, we have a fair few discounts on the top horses at a champion level. Still bloody expensive though even for rounceys. I'd say it was a bit to high. I can imagine most clans ect won't bother with horses now. Including buying them from us Buba  :P

I'd definitely say lower the cost a tad. It has to be still expensive, but not quite so cripplingly expensive.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Keshian on October 25, 2011, 05:02:16 pm
Like Buba said, we have a fair few discounts on the top horses at a champion level. Still bloody expensive though even for rounceys. I'd say it was a bit to high. I can imagine most clans ect won't bother with horses now. Including buying them from us Buba  :P

I'd definitely say lower the cost a tad. It has to be still expensive, but not quite so cripplingly expensive.

yeah, we were looking at champion coursers ata discount and the amount of money to buy 5 horses for a 1000 man army is enough to provide weapons for 500 troops.  Its a bit ludicrous how extreme its become.  If they didnt want us using mid-tier gear, okay, but permanent peasant gear is boring because it encourages fewer battles as the upkeep alone for 1000 troops eats up the equivalent of armor and weapons for 250 troops just to get to where the battle needs to go with another 250 equivalent in the 24 hour wait.

It wasn't really unbalanced in strat 2.0 where we did need to conserve our horses, which were far and away almost all rounceys, as we could only afford so many of them with the armor, weapons for a cavalry rider.  Buying horses now is retarded as you cant afford the armor that would stop any enemy from just shooting the rider and stealing the horse - which means you just payed a shitload to give the enemy a horse.

Same goes for sieges where the equipment to build a catapult is the equivalent of arms and armor for 1000 TROOPS!!!  There wasnt any severe unbalance before, but now there are huge imbalances.  Don't really get whats going through the balancing team's head. Strategus so far has been incredibly boring (unless you are one of those guys who can play for hours a lame stock trading game).
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Lorenzo_of_Iberia on October 25, 2011, 05:04:23 pm
yeah, we were looking at champion coursers ata discount and the amount of money to buy 5 horses for a 1000 man army is enough to provide weapons for 500 troops.  Its a bit ludicrous how extreme its become.  If they didnt want us using mid-tier gear, okay, but permanent peasant gear is boring because it encourages fewer battles as the upkeep alone for 1000 troops eats up the equivalent of armor and weapons for 250 troops just to get to where the battle needs to go with another 250 equivalent in the 24 hour wait.

It wasn't really unbalanced in strat 2.0 where we did need to conserve our horses, which were far and away almost all rounceys, as we could only afford so many of them with the armor, weapons for a cavalry rider.  Buying horses now is retarded as you cant afford the armor that would stop any enemy from just shooting the rider and stealing the horse - which means you just payed a shitload to give the enemy a horse.

Same goes for sieges where the equipment to build a catapult is the equivalent of arms and armor for 1000 TROOPS!!!  There wasnt any severe unbalance before, but now there are huge imbalances.  Don't really get whats going through the balancing team's head. Strategus so far has been incredibly boring (unless you are one of those guys who can play for hours a lame stock trading game).

What weapons are you equipping your poor 500 soldiers with?!?! Sticks?!?
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Keshian on October 25, 2011, 05:06:17 pm
What weapons are you equipping your poor 500 soldiers with?!?! Sticks?!?

Peasant gear like everyone else - cudgels, tridents, falchions, and sparingly of practice longswords, scythes, and nomad sabres

Look at the price difference between these items and a rouncey + lance or even a 48% discount champion courser (which we can do but even more expensive than just buying a rouncey), let alone decent armor and shield so the rider doesn't die immediately with one of our few precious horses and give the horse to the enemy.  Or we can manufacture 10 discounted MW horn bows for the equivalent of 1 rouncey+lance.  Hmmmmm, which makes more sense??
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Lorenzo_of_Iberia on October 25, 2011, 05:13:32 pm
Peasant gear like everyone else - cudgels, tridents, falchions, and sparingly of practice longswords, scythes, and nomad sabres

Look at the price difference between these items and a rouncey + lance or even a 48% discount champion courser (which we can do but even more expensive than just buying a rouncey), let alone decent armor and shield so the rider doesn't die immediately with one of our few precious horses and give the horse to the enemy.  Or we can manufacture 10 discounted MW horn bows for the equivalent of 1 rouncey+lance.  Hmmmmm, which makes more sense??

depends how well you use the cav i suppose ;)
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Sharky on October 26, 2011, 03:54:50 am
Nah cav isn't just cost effective. Price of 10 destriers cav (the first horse that doesn't instantly dies under arrows spam) plus some shitty mail so the rider maybe survives one hit is 16000. Price of 100 peasants with scytes(good to stop cav) 2700. 10 hornbowmens is 3000.
Also if you want to have a cavalry force you'll be able to field much less troops, and have less mercs slots avaiable.

And surprise effect is almost nullified since you will play against 60 peoples respawning continuosly and all togheter in one teamspeak channel.
I think cav needs a serious buff otherwise you'll not see very often on the battlefield, wich is silly (last time i checked cav was quite important in medieval warfare)
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Braeden on October 26, 2011, 04:34:09 am
Well, I think you'll see rounceys in every trade caravan, but besides them, yes, I agree cav will be quite rare now.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Kalam on October 26, 2011, 05:15:25 am
In the past, cav acted as an ace in the hole of sorts. You used them for key charges, and to protect your spawns. Most didn't buy enough for the whole battle, but for those moments in a battle- so you'd hear 'okay guys, it's time to spawn cavalry' on vent.

At this point, it doesn't look like we'll afford that anytime soon. And when the larger factions do, the smaller ones won't have a chance, either- much like they didn't in the past.

I can't help but feel that it would be more effective to tell all my clan members to respec to archer and polearm. Nothing else seems quite as useful, now.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Slamz on October 26, 2011, 05:18:39 am
Nah cav isn't just cost effective. Price of 10 destriers cav (the first horse that doesn't instantly dies under arrows spam)
Bzzzt.  Bear in mind that any archers at this point are using short bows and arrows, not long bows and bodkins.  You might be surprised how long a Rouncy lasts.  You can't use battle servers as a basis for information at this point.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Kalam on October 26, 2011, 05:40:28 am
Bzzzt.  Bear in mind that any archers at this point are using short bows and arrows, not long bows and bodkins.  You might be surprised how long a Rouncy lasts.  You can't use battle servers as a basis for information at this point.

I don't know about you, but we're using masterwork hornbows.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: BaleOhay on October 26, 2011, 06:11:37 am
Got to know what to splurge on :)

thought I read somewhere that bows would be fast but not very accurate.. Seems to me like bows shoot just fine in the battles I have been in
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: The_Angle on October 26, 2011, 11:58:32 am
Last strat I remember seeing LLJK running around in full plate and plated chargers funny shit.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Erasmas on October 26, 2011, 02:22:28 pm
We are about a month in you realize right???? and the planned wipe and switchover to new maps and changed features is 6-8 months in (at least cahdz posted that)??

He did? Where? Kesh, do you mind sharing link or something???

This Strat has potential for more than 6 months for sure...

Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Overdriven on October 26, 2011, 02:30:29 pm
I don't know about you, but we're using masterwork hornbows.

Likewise.

Rouncey's don't stand much chance against those with some tartars.

Being an all cav clan, we are putting a lot of resources into getting the best cav equipment. But it is mighty expensive to do, even with all our discounts  :|
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Rikthor on October 26, 2011, 02:34:29 pm
Last strat I remember seeing LLJK running around in full plate and plated chargers funny shit.

No. Only one person had a plated charger and there were only a couple. None of us ever had full plate. Saranid padded was our main gear except for some weeaboo armor your clan so happily donated to us. Keep exaggerating though.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Joseph on October 26, 2011, 03:21:27 pm
No. Only one person had a plated charger and there were only a couple. None of us ever had full plate. Saranid padded was our main gear except for some weeaboo armor your clan so happily donated to us. Keep exaggerating though.

FCC had a full army in Full Plate, no jokes.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: The_Angle on October 26, 2011, 03:21:55 pm
We didn't use any Weeaboo gear last strat. Also - the majority of your folk charging at us in full plate with a fine collection of plated chargers. You know when you came and took us up the rear?  :lol:

We had no gear to fight with and I managed to slay one of your cavalry men whom just luckily dropped their heavy lance to which I slade their horse and them. A cheer roared in teamspeak that day, I shall never forget. It brings a tear to my eye. An accolade worthy of an Ironcross!

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Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Jarlek on October 26, 2011, 03:36:10 pm
We didn't use any Weeaboo gear last strat. Also - the majority of your folk charging at us in full plate with a fine collection of plated chargers. You know when you came and took us up the rear?  :lol:

We had no gear to fight with and I managed to slay one of your cavalry men whom just luckily dropped their heavy lance to which I slade their horse and them. A cheer roared in teamspeak that day, I shall never forget. It brings a tear to my eye. An accolade worthy of an Ironcross!

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Lies. Obvious lies xD That you really don't know you used strange armour last round of strat is just hilarious xD
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: The_Angle on October 26, 2011, 03:37:36 pm
Lies. Obvious lies xD That you really don't know you used strange armour last round of strat is just hilarious xD

Well maybe when we were Shogunate. But not while we were Byzantium. I never saw any at least, though mind I did come in late strat.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Rikthor on October 26, 2011, 04:26:34 pm
FCC had a full army in Full Plate, no jokes.

You do know how they got the full plate right and it had nothing to do with gold spent?

Well maybe when we were Shogunate. But not while we were Byzantium. I never saw any at least, though mind I did come in late strat.

Yeah no, we never had full plate when you were in Acre and were destroyed. We never had full plate when we fought Shogunate. We never had full plate when we fought Byzantium. We never had full plate at any point. Only Gaga really used plated chargers with regularity, Smoothrich and the rest of the cav preferred other mounts. In other words, you are dumb. You had equal gear to us in the last major siege of our war with Byzantium when we took whatever village that was. Stop trying to lie and embellish on what happened last strat.

Back on topic: Agree with Kesh completely, gold nerf was too extreme.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Keshian on October 26, 2011, 05:11:21 pm
FCC had a full army in Full Plate, no jokes.

That was during the equipment bug near the end just before he wiped all the gold and equipment.   It was a bug not a feature of Strat 2.0.  No one could afford more than 1-2 of the extremely high-end gear setups in 2.0. 

Almost everyone spent between 75K-150K per 100 troops and that would give you 10-15% of your forces being mounted (primarily rounceys with maybe a dozen destriers or wahorses) and lower end mails like yellow tunic over mail.  It would be solid, decent gear for a real battle, but no armies of tincans or plated chargers.  Battles were actually pretty balanced equipment-wise and archers/xbowmen less dominant because people could actually afford armor.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Keshian on October 26, 2011, 05:47:41 pm
He did? Where? Kesh, do you mind sharing link or something???

This Strat has potential for more than 6 months for sure...

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,15457.210.html (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,15457.210.html)

Damn, that took a long time to find.  But there also was another post that didnt just say 6 months but actually 6-8 months, where the idea was we would have a separate NA and EU map the next go-around or at least a mirror map with more room for both.

Sorry for double post.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: chadz on October 26, 2011, 06:18:35 pm
Gold is that expensive because people are supposed to craft & trade weapons. If that's not working, it's a problem with the crafting, not with the item prices :P
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Keshian on October 26, 2011, 06:24:22 pm
Gold is that expensive because people are supposed to craft & trade weapons. If that's not working, it's a problem with the crafting, not with the item prices :P

Even with discounts horses at 4x item price way too expensive under the new more limited gold income.  So, yes the item prices for horses is an issue.  Unless a new crafting system would allow us to choose 1 crafting item skill and we could have 1 guy have a 80% price reduction on rounceys (which almost no uses on battle servers, die too quick) it might become a viable class again.  But even that assumes an extreme scenario that primarily works for a large clan.  The better way to go is to cut the price on some of the lower end horses like rounceys and sumpters in half or create a horse in-between the two in quality that is cheaper than both.


Its just odd that an entire class has essentially been nullfied for strategus battles, im an archer who hates cavalry and I even feel bad for them.  They never get to fight with their class.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Gheritarish le Loki on October 26, 2011, 06:28:27 pm
Ok, problem is with crafting, trading and gold earned in cRPG.

Everything is too low, it's almost impossible for a lone soldier to equip a decent army, how do you want to make caravan trading if you are not able to protect your goods? how do you want to make money if you're not able to make trading? Money earned in cRPG is too low to make the difference, If you don't have money you can't buy or craft gear to equip your soldiers and you can't buy more goods...
It's a snake biting its tail...
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: The_Angle on October 26, 2011, 06:58:13 pm
You do know how they got the full plate right and it had nothing to do with gold spent?

Yeah no, we never had full plate when you were in Acre and were destroyed. We never had full plate when we fought Shogunate. We never had full plate when we fought Byzantium. We never had full plate at any point. Only Gaga really used plated chargers with regularity, Smoothrich and the rest of the cav preferred other mounts. In other words, you are dumb. You had equal gear to us in the last major siege of our war with Byzantium when we took whatever village that was. Stop trying to lie and embellish on what happened last strat.

Back on topic: Agree with Kesh completely, gold nerf was too extreme.

Hurrr duurr I left Acre before you even got near thinking about attacking them, I don't know who's filling you in on all this but you clearly are misinformed. Yeah I admit, I am lying totally, opps I lied again.  :lol:

I understand that you feel so passionate about this topic as to goon-around, as usual. But I am not opposed to have the upkeep lifted just alittle, but not totally reverted to the point where you guys can run around in fullplate and plated chargers.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: SPQR on October 26, 2011, 07:53:04 pm
Gold is that expensive because people are supposed to craft & trade weapons. If that's not working, it's a problem with the crafting, not with the item prices :P

If item prices aren't going to be changed, then crafting needs a huge buff.

Prices were quadrupled, and an average smithing skill gives you a 50% discount. Which means the item is still twice as expensive as it was before, even if you craft it.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Dehitay on October 26, 2011, 11:05:53 pm
Gold is that expensive because people are supposed to craft & trade weapons. If that's not working, it's a problem with the crafting, not with the item prices :P
So you're essentially saying there's a problem with crafting. Might I suggest a far more transparent system of gaining smithing skills (even for people over level 30) so people can actually make decent progress. You might be surprised how much "it happens based on a variable" doesn't help anybody. Actually, even if you told us how to get smithing skills in the most efficient way possible, they're still ridiculously underpowered.

Maybe rather than smithing skill points accumulating, you should just set flags when you get the message. Whatever equipment you have is set to true, and any other equipment that was true but you don't have equipped is set to false. Then for those items you can smith, you get 15 chances of 15% per hour with a 75% discount to make up for the 400% increase in cost. Even if you get all your equipment from equipment crafters in this case, you're still making less money compared to last Strat due to the reduced rate of income and the loss of man hours (not to mention how much funding gets wasted in the 24 hour period waiting for battles to start compared to last Strat).
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Overdriven on October 26, 2011, 11:19:49 pm
I hate the randomness of the crafting skill. I ride my champ courser 24/7, yet it's one of my lowest crafting discounts. Even my Kazakh armour is above it which I've only been using for a few weeks. My steppe armour is also above it.

I think you should be able to select which item get's the bonus. Then people wouldn't end up with discounts on entirely useless things which only cost 2 gold to buy in the first place.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Panoply on October 27, 2011, 12:22:27 am
I'm pretty sure that chadz text works in the following way... When you get ATHW:

+3 smithing skill to all items you've got equipped at the time.
-1 smithing skill to all items you don't have equipped. (I'm not sure if it's -1 exactly).

So this means that your smithing skill is biased toward items you've been using recently, not necessarily items that you've used a lot over your entire career. If you've been running infantry or another horse recently, then your champion courser smith skill will have taken a hit.

As an example, since the Deli Cap came out, I eschewed my normal equipment load-out for a joke one, with a deli cap and a dark cavalry robe. As a result, I now 9 smith skill in my joke loadout, but only 1 or 2 smith skill in the serious loadout I had been using consistently before. I'm now level 31 and I hadn't planned on retiring this generation as my build is only really complete at level 32. However, this now means that my crafting skills are complete bogus.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Jarlek on October 27, 2011, 01:09:47 am
I hate the randomness of the crafting skill. I ride my champ courser 24/7, yet it's one of my lowest crafting discounts. Even my Kazakh armour is above it which I've only been using for a few weeks. My steppe armour is also above it.

I think you should be able to select which item get's the bonus. Then people wouldn't end up with discounts on entirely useless things which only cost 2 gold to buy in the first place.
You think you have it bad? I've only gotten the message ONCE, without being over a long time lvl 31+.... back when I was pure polecav... when I was in eu3.... taking a screenshot.... of lol-gear.... FUCK ME!
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Mannhammer on October 27, 2011, 01:25:31 am
Gold is that expensive because people are supposed to craft & trade weapons. If that's not working, it's a problem with the crafting, not with the item prices :P

Then please fix the crafting system. It's far to random. I've only gotten the message once on my main which is next to useless. Crafting should be skill based.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Nebun on October 27, 2011, 04:58:05 am
I think crafting is fine now, and trading is fine now, just not everyone used its full potential.
Everything also got a bit slower, get use to that.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Huey Newton on October 27, 2011, 05:04:00 am
i agree with everyones points about it being too random.
Although im over level 31 so I cant get the message anymore, I've been using the same default loadout for about 11 9 months now. Yet I hardly ever got the message before I got to level 31
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Overdriven on October 27, 2011, 09:31:13 am
I'm pretty sure that chadz text works in the following way... When you get ATHW:

+3 smithing skill to all items you've got equipped at the time.
-1 smithing skill to all items you don't have equipped. (I'm not sure if it's -1 exactly).

So this means that your smithing skill is biased toward items you've been using recently, not necessarily items that you've used a lot over your entire career. If you've been running infantry or another horse recently, then your champion courser smith skill will have taken a hit.

As an example, since the Deli Cap came out, I eschewed my normal equipment load-out for a joke one, with a deli cap and a dark cavalry robe. As a result, I now 9 smith skill in my joke loadout, but only 1 or 2 smith skill in the serious loadout I had been using consistently before. I'm now level 31 and I hadn't planned on retiring this generation as my build is only really complete at level 32. However, this now means that my crafting skills are complete bogus.

If that's the case then it's a daft system. If you retire then you can't use higher tier items for a while. For instance I couldn't use my courser until level 25. Therefore if I got the message during that time my courser would have taken a hit.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Gristle on October 27, 2011, 11:48:35 am
Can we get a crafting system that works on something besides random chance? Last time I retired, I got the message at level 4. Why would I want that message at level 4? ALL of my useful crafts were lowered.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Tears of Destiny on October 27, 2011, 11:58:00 am
Can we get a crafting system that works on something besides random chance? Last time I retired, I got the message at level 4. Why would I want that message at level 4? ALL of my useful crafts were lowered.

This 100%.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Ernesto on October 27, 2011, 03:30:10 pm
 its been 2 weeks now and no horses in strategus still! :((
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Overdriven on October 27, 2011, 04:03:22 pm
its been 2 weeks now and no horses in strategus still! :((

We are working on it  :) Though it might be a few weeks until we can field an effective cav force and we aren't going to waste any horses unecessarily  :|
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Huey Newton on October 27, 2011, 05:15:32 pm
its been 2 weeks now and no horses in strategus still! :((

Actually yesterday we (FCC) took another village with a massive cavalry force of 1 rouncey and 2 sumpters
heh
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Overdriven on October 30, 2011, 02:00:34 am
New annoyance. Received the message today, but when I'd been shot from my horse. The crafting bonus didn't apply to my horse and so it lowered the skill even more because I wasn't riding it at that moment. In my opinion this is a major flaw as cav fairly often gets dehorsed. Why does the skill not to apply to your starting inventory? Rather than what you have on you at that exact moment.

In the case of horses, this will make it a lot harder to receive the bonus. It certainly won't effect any other class as much.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Gristle on October 30, 2011, 02:58:27 am
If we could just CHOOSE what we want our crafting skill to focus on, that would be great. Random chance makes no sense. It's just frustrating.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Keshian on October 30, 2011, 03:19:58 am
New annoyance. Received the message today, but when I'd been shot from my horse. The crafting bonus didn't apply to my horse and so it lowered the skill even more because I wasn't riding it at that moment. In my opinion this is a major flaw as cav fairly often gets dehorsed. Why does the skill not to apply to your starting inventory? Rather than what you have on you at that exact moment.

In the case of horses, this will make it a lot harder to receive the bonus. It certainly won't effect any other class as much.

Actually have that same issue with archers/xbowers - bolts and arrows gone at end of round.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Beans on October 30, 2011, 03:28:52 am
If we could just CHOOSE what we want our crafting skill to focus on, that would be great. Random chance makes no sense. It's just frustrating.

Luckily they are considering making changes to the smithing system as it currently exists. I agree the current system is silly.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: H4rdn3ssKill3r on October 30, 2011, 07:27:11 am
Its good that cav is nullified, we shouldn't see cav till VERYYYY late game, Its a luxury not a necessity.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: SPQR on October 30, 2011, 08:33:03 am
Its good that cav is nullified, we shouldn't see cav till VERYYYY late game, Its a luxury not a necessity.

Why?

People have been riding horses for centuries. Its not like no one used them until they reached some sort of arbitrary economic point then decided to gather the horses and start riding them. They're a natural resource and even some of the poorest civilizations in history still rode horses at least occasionally.

Fielding a heavily armored warhorse with a dude in full plate on top should be difficult.

Fielding a dude in a padded jacket with a pointy stick on a rouncey should not.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Dach on October 30, 2011, 09:22:13 am
Damn i've been lucky then, I love my crafting skill.

I'm over lvl 31 so they won't change anymore! good good!  :mrgreen:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Overdriven on October 30, 2011, 11:25:29 am
Fielding a heavily armored warhorse with a dude in full plate on top should be difficult.

Fielding a dude in a padded jacket with a pointy stick on a rouncey should not.

This.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: mandible/splinteryourjaw on October 30, 2011, 03:22:57 pm
This destitue fool wants cheap donkeys, that never stop and kick anything near them, added...also they should be able to carry 4 troops and fifty goods each.

While we're on it camels also...cheap enough so I can switch from donkey to camel when in the desert.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Huey Newton on October 31, 2011, 12:57:51 am
Why?

People have been riding horses for centuries. Its not like no one used them until they reached some sort of arbitrary economic point then decided to gather the horses and start riding them. They're a natural resource and even some of the poorest civilizations in history still rode horses at least occasionally.

Fielding a heavily armored warhorse with a dude in full plate on top should be difficult.

Fielding a dude in a padded jacket with a pointy stick on a rouncey should not.

yeah this sums it up
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Plaksteris on October 31, 2011, 07:12:38 am
Why?

People have been riding horses for centuries. Its not like no one used them until they reached some sort of arbitrary economic point then decided to gather the horses and start riding them. They're a natural resource and even some of the poorest civilizations in history still rode horses at least occasionally.

Fielding a heavily armored warhorse with a dude in full plate on top should be difficult.

Fielding a dude in a padded jacket with a pointy stick on a rouncey should not.


YUP! Agree to this! Horses were used everywhere.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Dehitay on October 31, 2011, 05:30:55 pm
People have been riding horses for centuries. Its not like no one used them until they reached some sort of arbitrary economic point then decided to gather the horses and start riding them. They're a natural resource and even some of the poorest civilizations in history still rode horses at least occasionally.
Excluding North America, which ironically, I believe is the continent you live in.

While I agree the massive gold nerf and new item prices are ridiculous, I have to remind you that the dev team won't give a damn about realism with balance is involved in the slightest fashion (even when it's a major imbalance), let alone realism that isn't accurate.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Overdriven on October 31, 2011, 06:02:57 pm
Yes but even balance wise...it's silly  :P
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Plaksteris on October 31, 2011, 07:37:13 pm
Excluding North America, which ironically, I believe is the continent you live in.

While I agree the massive gold nerf and new item prices are ridiculous, I have to remind you that the dev team won't give a damn about realism with balance is involved in the slightest fashion (even when it's a major imbalance), let alone realism that isn't accurate.

Its more balance than realism, cos why you cant get horses in a half a horse game?! Isnt that MOUNT&Blade

I really agree that at least the worst horses should be cheaper. As one said, having a shitty horse and peasant outfit was for everyone in medieval times, but armored warhorse and full plate for lords and wealthy ones.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: vinnytk on November 01, 2011, 10:52:05 pm
Excluding North America, which ironically, I believe is the continent you live in.

that's not irony
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Thax on November 01, 2011, 11:01:36 pm
Spanish horses became wild horse (see mustang) that were then tamed and utilized by what would become known as the plains Indians tribes.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Dehitay on November 02, 2011, 12:13:24 am
that's not irony
While I use ironically incorrectly all the time, this time it was rather accurately used. You would have thought that if a place existed where horses weren't utilitzed for a while, then as an inhabitant of that area, he would be more likely to know of it rather than if he didn't come from such an area. But in the end, he didn't know of it.

However, I guess it isn't irony if he isn't actually from North America.

Also, I thought that was pretty self-evident. How did you translate this to where you didn't see it fitting the definition of irony?
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: BADPLAYERold on November 02, 2011, 12:39:35 am
While I use ironically incorrectly all the time, this time it was rather accurately used. You would have thought that if a place existed where horses weren't utilitzed for a while, then as an inhabitant of that area, he would be more likely to know of it rather than if he didn't come from such an area. But in the end, he didn't know of it.

However, I guess it isn't irony if he isn't actually from North America.

Also, I thought that was pretty self-evident. How did you translate this to where you didn't see it fitting the definition of irony?

hahahahahahahahahahahaha
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: a_bear_irl on November 02, 2011, 12:41:54 am
While I use ironically incorrectly all the time, this time it was rather accurately used. You would have thought that if a place existed where horses weren't utilitzed for a while, then as an inhabitant of that area, he would be more likely to know of it rather than if he didn't come from such an area. But in the end, he didn't know of it.

However, I guess it isn't irony if he isn't actually from North America.

Also, I thought that was pretty self-evident. How did you translate this to where you didn't see it fitting the definition of irony?

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Keshian on November 02, 2011, 12:45:21 am
Thread successfully derailed after 6 pages of waiting for a developer response as to when this unbalanced feature will eb fixed and cavalry players can actually play in strategus.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Overdriven on November 02, 2011, 01:00:33 am
Yup...some form of response would be nice.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Remy on November 02, 2011, 06:47:24 pm
Gifs me my horse(s)!
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: TommyHu on November 02, 2011, 09:15:13 pm
they had to nerf cav prices because cav was so useful in strat when all the battles are sieges or village battles
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Dan lol on November 02, 2011, 09:21:38 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_DVS_303kQ
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: H4rdn3ssKill3r on November 02, 2011, 10:27:41 pm
Fielding a dude in a padded jacket with a pointy stick on a rouncey should not.
Rouncey?
You should see Stumpers first, Last strat when did you see a stumper? Other than troll battles (Yes LLJK, Most of yours).
I want to see a dude with a boar spear stumper and nomad vest, not suddenly Mail Riding Rounceys.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Penitent on November 02, 2011, 10:43:14 pm
I have a degree in English.

The gentleman with the Possum for a profile pic did indeed use the word "ironic" correctly.

What is more ironic is that a game called Mount & Blade has a strong anti-horse lobby among its players.

/the end
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: BADPLAYERold on November 04, 2011, 12:58:40 am
Rouncey?
You should see Stumpers first, Last strat when did you see a stumper? Other than troll battles (Yes LLJK, Most of yours).
I want to see a dude with a boar spear stumper and nomad vest, not suddenly Mail Riding Rounceys.

Sumpters are useless, boar spears for cavalry are useless. Much better to just buy a scythe for way less gold.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Jarlek on November 04, 2011, 01:04:55 am
Sumpters are useless, boar spears for cavalry are useless. Much better to just buy a scythe for way less gold.
Let's see:
1 Sumpter       360
1 Boar Spear    47
Total cost =  407

16 Scythe 25.44*16 = 407.04

So. 16 naked guys with scythes or 1 guy on a rouncey with a boar spear? Who wins?

Fuck it. Cav is dead.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Slantedfloors on November 04, 2011, 08:56:36 pm
Last strat when did you see a stumper? Other than troll battles (Yes LLJK, Most of yours).
Any LLJK general who bought Sumpters for any reason would be hunted down and crucified IRL.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Kafein on November 05, 2011, 12:12:56 am
What is more ironic is that a game called Mount & Blade has a strong anti-horse lobby among its players.


A wise man
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Kophka on November 05, 2011, 12:38:07 am
I too think it is completely depressing that cavalry has no place in strategus.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Overdriven on November 05, 2011, 02:30:49 am
Pfft...that's what you think. Our production of rounceys is at an all time high...

We now may be able to equip each of our members for one horse each in a village fight! It's only taken us a few weeks  :evil:
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: BADPLAYERold on November 05, 2011, 03:54:27 am
Pfft...that's what you think. Our production of rounceys is at an all time high...

We now may be able to equip each of our members for one horse each in a village fight! It's only taken us a few weeks  :evil:

Too bad rounceys die in 2-3 arrows and anyone with a scythe can stop one.
Title: Re: Cavalry nullified in Strat 3.0 - gold nerf went too extreme
Post by: Kafein on November 06, 2011, 12:38:36 am
Too bad rounceys die in 2-3 arrows and anyone with a scythe can stop one.

Exactly.

I really salute GK for trying though.