Wow, Haven is making an ugly name for themselves.
Haven again?lol, exactly one week ago:
lol, exactly one week ago:
"You can't blame Haven for what one person did, I was not aware of this until i read the post and I told him to give it back MANY times. He just ignores what I say. "
Wasn´t there some hollywood ending to the bullet one and everybody rejoiced bla bla bla...same might happen here
Wasn´t there some hollywood ending to the bullet one and everybody rejoiced bla bla bla...same might happen here
Exactly the same happened with Druzhina_Ariec when he tried made the same mistake while giving loom to clanmate.
And this TurmoilTom accepted the offer in 2 seconds or less.
Man can't make this manula for sure. He uses script. And as I suppose thats forbidden. And as it happened not for the first time this bastard TurmoilTom deserves permaban. I think my clanmates would be glad to hear, that their looms were spent on permabanning of this cheater.
Why would you play a community game in which the community hates you?
Making? They are ex Dracul! :lol:
Why would you play a community game in which the community hates you?
Ok, now that I'm done laughing, I will take the time to respond to this. You know for sure that he uses a script, and would like to see him perma'd? Ok, if you have all that evidence there... you must be right.
Whats that supposed to mean Tears? I'm ex-Dracul, as are a few others.
It means Fisticuffs at sundown!
Ok, now that I'm done laughing, I will take the time to respond to this. You know for sure that he uses a script, and would like to see him perma'd? Ok, if you have all that evidence there... you must be right.For admins thats not hard to verify.
For admins thats not hard to verify.
I am asking to make an experiment - Just make the same action as OP, put heirloom for stones or for some cheap gear. And the result will be seen very quickly.
Thats not just weird, thats too weird that only TurmoilTom buys looms like this, just in 1-2 seconds after offer was sent. Page can't be refreshed and player just can't notice such an offer from hundreds others in a moment. And admins can check, where these stolen looms are now. And check this TurmoilTom for playing activity. If all these looms now belongs not to him but to haven members, then ok, may be not ban, but wipe all gear and gold of these thieves. That would be fair. And TurmoilTom deserves permaban.
Scripting isn't forbidden. High-frequency transactions aren't forbidden in international RL trade.
Being the first to accept wrong offers isn't scamming or stealing. What agreement did he infriged ? None. The error comes from people that put incorrect offers on the market. If it's not a script that buys it, then it's a human, but there's no difference.
Ofc. not giving the item back is immoral, but the scripting itself isn't.
Now, if the system had more railings, people would make a lot less errors, and there would be a lot less drama. There's no fault in being the first to accept the deal, by whatever mean. In many cases, items sold for the wrong price are given back. Those that "cleverly" (in a very short term sense, payback's a bitch) use the errors of others like that TurmoilTom are revealing the flaws of the current market implementation.
Scripting isn't forbidden. High-frequency transactions aren't forbidden in international RL trade.Scripts that replace man (read bot) are forbidden as I know. And I just can't beleive that TurmoilTom accepting the offers manually. Just can't. And for using bots, not enhancing scripts, but bot, this must be punished.
Being the first to accept wrong offers isn't scamming or stealing. What agreement did he infriged ? None. The error comes from people that put incorrect offers on the market. If it's not a script that buys it, then it's a human, but there's no difference.
Ofc. not giving the item back is immoral, but the scripting itself isn't.
Now, if the system had more railings, people would make a lot less errors, and there would be a lot less drama. There's no fault in being the first to accept the deal, by whatever mean. In many cases, items sold for the wrong price are given back. Those that "cleverly" (in a very short term sense, payback's a bitch) use the errors of others like that TurmoilTom are revealing the flaws of the current market implementation.
Exactly the same happened with Druzhina_Ariec. He made the same mistake when he tried to give loom to clanmate.
And this TurmoilTom accepted the offer in 2 seconds or less.
Man can't make this manual for sure. He uses script. And as I suppose thats forbidden. And as it happened not for the first time this bastard TurmoilTom deserves permaban. I think my clanmates would be glad to hear, that their looms were spent on permabanning of this cheater.
Making? They are ex Dracul! :lol:
IMO scammers should burn and be banned forever.
We have a Common Sense rule in the rules that overrides all other rules. This rule was previously called the ASSHAT rule.
Scammer is an Asshat, therefore, ban him.
Sad thing is that I don't have the power to check logs like that in the marketplace.. But scammers beware:
I have a strong feeling that sooner or later you will have to pay dearly.
I sympathize with those who have made Market exchanges with which they were dissatisfied. It isn't easy seeing something one finds valuable to go for an unintended price. I understand this. But what I don't understand is how accepting an exchange on terms that someone else has offered can be reasonably construed as "cheating" or "scamming." An error on the part of the one making the offer does not imply rule-breaking or fraud on the part of the one accepting the offer.
One thing to keep in mind in discussions such as this is that the Market is an extension of cRPG, like Strategus is. Player actions in both the Market and Strategus entail risk, which even in Strategus is often economic in nature (e.g., running a trade route and protecting those on mercantile missions). As such, players ought to familiarize themselves with the mechanics of the game in order to avoid regrettable errors.
Both Strategus and the Market are extensions of cRPG and players can make mistakes in each. In Strategus, players make mistakes that result in circumstances that they dislike. If you benefit from another player's error in Strategus, e.g., by taking a town with poor defenses, you are not thereby obligated to rectify the error. You don't have to apologize or give back the town. Players who want to avoid losing towns need to learn the rules of the game and double-check their actions before taking them. They should recognize that any action entails risk and that mistakes are possible. In Strategus, a player might carry the wrong equipment for an imminent battle, resulting in a huge loss of troops; or in running a trade route he might activate quick march at an inappropriate time, leaving his army exhuasted in dangerous territory and open to a major loss of Strategus gold in the form of Trade Goods. In the Market, a player might type an unintended value or propose an exchange without knowledge of a recent patch that has changed the relative values of items. But in neither case does his error obligate another player to hit the reset button. Those who play the Market, just as those who play Strategus, need to know the game if they want matters to proceed as they intend.
Part of knowing the game is knowing what precautions are necessary to avoid mistakes. In Strategus, players should know what it means to drop their trade goods and whether it is appropriate to do so, and they should know not to sell weapons to fiefs, which at the moment do not exchange them for money. In the Market, players should know to verify that they are requesting the intended item, that the heirloom level is correct, and that the gold amount is the right number. The Market, for a short time during Javascript processing, places at the top of the list the offer one has just proposed, which allows the player to check his proposed exchange. One can even search for his character's name in order to double-check his offer. But it is best to rely on one's own careful checking and double-checking prior to proposing an exchange. This is important because the Market at the moment is unable to detect one's errors for him. I recommend that players learn the mechanics of the game as a way to prevent errors that they might regret.
Some think that the Market does not have enough built-in checks. They are free to take up the matter with those running the Market. But if anyone is at fault for a lack of additional methods of verification, one can hardly lay blame at the feet of those who simply click Accept. In the Market, as in Strategus, it is up to each individual player to familiarize himself with the rules of the game, to understand the risks involved, and to act accordingly.
C08385234EAC4BAD83F21B9A946283E53936D55B70F3CB7F6997DA92B6E91B73
Comparing losing troops/towns/goods in Strategus to losing a +3 loom in the marketplace due to an error is fucking retarded.
Comparing losing troops/towns/goods in Strategus to losing a +3 loom in the marketplace due to an error is fucking retarded.Absolutely agreed.
While I personaly don't think that it's right for Turmoil to keep the item he's not in the wrong. In the end it's still your fault.
I sympathize with those who have made Market exchanges with which they were dissatisfied. It isn't easy seeing something one finds valuable to go for an unintended price. I understand this. But what I don't understand is how accepting an exchange on terms that someone else has offered can be reasonably construed as "cheating" or "scamming." An error on the part of the one making the offer does not imply rule-breaking or fraud on the part of the one accepting the offer.
One thing to keep in mind in discussions such as this is that the Market is an extension of cRPG, like Strategus is. Player actions in both the Market and Strategus entail risk, which even in Strategus is often economic in nature (e.g., running a trade route and protecting those on mercantile missions). As such, players ought to familiarize themselves with the mechanics of the game in order to avoid regrettable errors.
Both Strategus and the Market are extensions of cRPG and players can make mistakes in each. In Strategus, players make mistakes that result in circumstances that they dislike. If you benefit from another player's error in Strategus, e.g., by taking a town with poor defenses, you are not thereby obligated to rectify the error. You don't have to apologize or give back the town. Players who want to avoid losing towns need to learn the rules of the game and double-check their actions before taking them. They should recognize that any action entails risk and that mistakes are possible. In Strategus, a player might carry the wrong equipment for an imminent battle, resulting in a huge loss of troops; or in running a trade route he might activate quick march at an inappropriate time, leaving his army exhuasted in dangerous territory and open to a major loss of Strategus gold in the form of Trade Goods. In the Market, a player might type an unintended value or propose an exchange without knowledge of a recent patch that has changed the relative values of items. But in neither case does his error obligate another player to hit the reset button. Those who play the Market, just as those who play Strategus, need to know the game if they want matters to proceed as they intend.
Part of knowing the game is knowing what precautions are necessary to avoid mistakes. In Strategus, players should know what it means to drop their trade goods and whether it is appropriate to do so, and they should know not to sell weapons to fiefs, which at the moment do not exchange them for money. In the Market, players should know to verify that they are requesting the intended item, that the heirloom level is correct, and that the gold amount is the right number. The Market, for a short time during Javascript processing, places at the top of the list the offer one has just proposed, which allows the player to check his proposed exchange. One can even search for his character's name in order to double-check his offer. But it is best to rely on one's own careful checking and double-checking prior to proposing an exchange. This is important because the Market at the moment is unable to detect one's errors for him. I recommend that players learn the mechanics of the game as a way to prevent errors that they might regret.
Some think that the Market does not have enough built-in checks. They are free to take up the matter with those running the Market. But if anyone is at fault for a lack of additional methods of verification, one can hardly lay blame at the feet of those who simply click Accept. In the Market, as in Strategus, it is up to each individual player to familiarize himself with the rules of the game, to understand the risks involved, and to act accordingly.
C08385234EAC4BAD83F21B9A946283E53936D55B70F3CB7F6997DA92B6E91B73
I sympathize with those who have made Market exchanges with which they were dissatisfied. It isn't easy seeing something one finds valuable to go for an unintended price. I understand this. But what I don't understand is how accepting an exchange on terms that someone else has offered can be reasonably construed as "cheating" or "scamming." An error on the part of the one making the offer does not imply rule-breaking or fraud on the part of the one accepting the offer.
One thing to keep in mind in discussions such as this is that the Market is an extension of cRPG, like Strategus is. Player actions in both the Market and Strategus entail risk, which even in Strategus is often economic in nature (e.g., running a trade route and protecting those on mercantile missions). As such, players ought to familiarize themselves with the mechanics of the game in order to avoid regrettable errors.
Both Strategus and the Market are extensions of cRPG and players can make mistakes in each. In Strategus, players make mistakes that result in circumstances that they dislike. If you benefit from another player's error in Strategus, e.g., by taking a town with poor defenses, you are not thereby obligated to rectify the error. You don't have to apologize or give back the town. Players who want to avoid losing towns need to learn the rules of the game and double-check their actions before taking them. They should recognize that any action entails risk and that mistakes are possible. In Strategus, a player might carry the wrong equipment for an imminent battle, resulting in a huge loss of troops; or in running a trade route he might activate quick march at an inappropriate time, leaving his army exhuasted in dangerous territory and open to a major loss of Strategus gold in the form of Trade Goods. In the Market, a player might type an unintended value or propose an exchange without knowledge of a recent patch that has changed the relative values of items. But in neither case does his error obligate another player to hit the reset button. Those who play the Market, just as those who play Strategus, need to know the game if they want matters to proceed as they intend.
Part of knowing the game is knowing what precautions are necessary to avoid mistakes. In Strategus, players should know what it means to drop their trade goods and whether it is appropriate to do so, and they should know not to sell weapons to fiefs, which at the moment do not exchange them for money. In the Market, players should know to verify that they are requesting the intended item, that the heirloom level is correct, and that the gold amount is the right number. The Market, for a short time during Javascript processing, places at the top of the list the offer one has just proposed, which allows the player to check his proposed exchange. One can even search for his character's name in order to double-check his offer. But it is best to rely on one's own careful checking and double-checking prior to proposing an exchange. This is important because the Market at the moment is unable to detect one's errors for him. I recommend that players learn the mechanics of the game as a way to prevent errors that they might regret.
Some think that the Market does not have enough built-in checks. They are free to take up the matter with those running the Market. But if anyone is at fault for a lack of additional methods of verification, one can hardly lay blame at the feet of those who simply click Accept. In the Market, as in Strategus, it is up to each individual player to familiarize himself with the rules of the game, to understand the risks involved, and to act accordingly.
C08385234EAC4BAD83F21B9A946283E53936D55B70F3CB7F6997DA92B6E91B73
Dezilagel , you did right that wrote his name. He behave like a retard and doesn't hide that. And you let the community know about these "fair and trustful" Kingdom of Haven...
I can understand that you're annoyed with me for making this topic, but then again I never wanted to. I spent 2/3 of my OP explaining just why I did it. Call me a douche for doing it, fine I can't say you're wrong but really, just answering my pm's would have been so much easier.
Tbh, I'm sorry for metioning your name in here, that was unnecessary (yes, I was irritated at the time of writing, for obvious reason). Although making a topic about the issue at hand I still think is reasonable, for reasons I've already stated.
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You don't deserve your item back. You don't even deserve our respect.
"Our" respect?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
TL;DR, douchebag defending his douchebaggy actions because they're "legal". Grats bro, you didn't break any rules. You're still a douchebag.
This basically. I still think Turmoil should give it back but that's up to him. He's not a cheater or scammer if he keeps it. It does reflect on his personality and character and will affect how he and his clan are viewed by others. And their reputation is going down the drain fast which is a punishment in itself.
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You bring up a few situations strategus as examples, but those are completely different things. The purpose of the strategus game is to vie for power, you aim to wipe out the other factions and seize as much power/land for your faction (or yourself) as possible. Attacking weak towns/raiding caravans is an accepted part of the game, striking where the enemy is the weakest is one of the central ideas of any strategy game.
Well, Kafein, just to clarify, my point was that exploiting people's mistakes is to be equalled to cheesing ("exploiting" if you want) in strategus, not dismissing the fact that the marketplace is often weived as a struggle for power.
And nothing wrong with that really, playing a market game can be loads of fun.
But exploiting mastakes isn't really "part" of the game now is it? That was my point.
At least for me (and probably for many people), exploiting evident price input errors isn't part of the game. But as I said, I will not debate about it being morally right or not. Personally, I would give the item back, because I would be happy doing it. I only think that it should be not officially punished as if it was, it would only show a lack of coherence in the game rules.
And I as I said, according to the game rules, he hasn't done anything wrong. No need to argue that.
So we miraculously came to an agreement ? :twisted:
Or did we agree from the beginning ? :lol:
Anyway, good luck to you. I really wish you will recover your loomed items just like all the others that did unwanted deals.
Never have I seen such pissing and moaning in a thread. :lol:Easy to say that but your not the one that lost LORDLY CASED GREAVES.
You made a mistake, man up and accept it.
Never have I seen such pissing and moaning in a thread. :lol:
You made a mistake, man up and accept it.
Man up? If I messed up that bad I'd be fucking pissed. It takes me 1 month+ to retire (if I even retire). That for me would have been a lot of wasted time.
Well, that sucks. I lose it due to idiocy it's my fault. I won't make that mistake again.
A smart man learns from his mistakes, a wiseman from the mistakes of others.
This isn't the first time it's happened. People at this point should be MORE than aware. If they aren't.....
It´s still not making the receiver of the items being a good man... his reputation is gone forever.
Wrong thread, sorry
bump?
Actually a mistake. (how ironic) I was replying to two topics at the same time and got mixed up.
Proper bump this time.
Still haven't heard anything.
...
I don't really care about that I lost a heirloom as much as I get really frustrated by the fact that people are systematically doing this kind of thing and nothing is being done.
If this is an intended part of the marketplace then fine, I'll shut up.
But if it's not, then maybe a policy change should be reconsidered?