cRPG

Strategus => Strategus General Discussion => Topic started by: chadz on October 13, 2011, 08:10:30 pm

Title: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: chadz on October 13, 2011, 08:10:30 pm
So, let's see if i can remember everything:

- Item price got multiplied by 4 (from /100 to /25)
- you can no longer work in towns
- instead you can either beg (gives you +1 coin per hour)
- or craft (read below)
- trading distance bonus got buffed (you can now get up to 450% of the price, so selling stuff far away for 25 gold means you get 113 gold per trading item)
- you can now trade goods with other players directly
- castles give lots of recruits,
- villages give lots of crafting opportunity
- towns will have a marketplace - in a town, you can put up your goods for trade with other players. The idea is that people produce goods in villages and bring them to the towns where big merchants will transfer them to faraway places
- you can have as many goods on you as long as you don't move. When you move, you lose 1 good per minute until you are down to goods_amount=troops_amount
- gold from crpg got nerfedrestructured - it's 1 gold per x2 and x3 tick, 2 gold per x4 and x5 tick
- selling items to the bank was changed from 70% to 20% return value.

-probably some thing i forget which i will add asap

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Tears of Destiny on October 13, 2011, 08:12:19 pm
Immeasurably sexy, thank you.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Smoothrich on October 13, 2011, 08:15:38 pm
what
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: BADPLAYERold on October 13, 2011, 08:15:49 pm
strat is dead
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Snatch on October 13, 2011, 08:16:17 pm
In true chadz fashion, changes are indecipherable.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Tears of Destiny on October 13, 2011, 08:18:03 pm
In true chadz fashion, changes are indecipherable.

Where the hell you been?!
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: LLJK_Korea1 on October 13, 2011, 08:21:54 pm
r.i.p
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Snatch on October 13, 2011, 08:23:08 pm
Where the hell you been?!

LLJK banned me from their clan. No I come back to haunt them.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Turboflex on October 13, 2011, 08:24:52 pm
So I was wondering...

-So prosperity was not player determined we've been told...but what causes it to fluctuate and how frequently? The fief I am in was +1 last night and is now +2. Was this a normal movement or was it adjusted by the patch?

-Prosperity I assume affects the price of trade goods from the shop. Does it also affect the price of gear from the shop? Does it affect the cost of crafting goods? of crafting gear?

-Is there a relationship between prosperity and efficiency?

Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Jarlek on October 13, 2011, 08:25:36 pm
Thanks for the info.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Keshian on October 13, 2011, 08:31:41 pm
LLJK banned me from their clan. No I come back to haunt them.

Wow, you have to an epic troll to be banned from the goons.


Also, chadz - you need to keep gold from cRPG the sam,e as before if not even tweak it to 1 gold higher per level tick.  The new gold system means upkeep will be utterly impossible, let alone equipping them.  No real battles, just another boring stupid trading game, which the majority of cRPG players are not interested in except as a minor addition, not as the whole fricken game.

Only the anal retentive like the kind of micromanagement this new system entails without even the reward of having epic battles.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Lt_Anders on October 13, 2011, 08:33:01 pm
Uh, huh, i think I found something broken.

If you Craft a trade item, in a village, you can sell it there for more than it cost to make.
For example:
Undiniad
Nord Strong Ale: Craft cost: 10
Sell price in village: 19.19

I make 9 gold profit.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Overdriven on October 13, 2011, 08:35:22 pm
Uh, huh, i think I found something broken.

If you Craft a trade item, in a village, you can sell it there for more than it cost to make.
For example:
Undiniad
Nord Strong Ale: Craft cost: 10
Sell price in village: 19.19

I make 9 gold profit.

Read his post again. That's intended  :wink:
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Jacko on October 13, 2011, 08:35:58 pm
Lol. Kesh, how about trying it first, eh?

Damn retard..
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Beans on October 13, 2011, 08:36:19 pm
These changes are not bad simply because they are obscure and silly but because with such a severe restriction on producing and equipping troops. The amount of effort it will require a clan to raise an army will be so huge that if they lose they will be in such a horrible position they might as well quit. This also encourages army hoarding until you are certain you can win leading to no one wanting to make initial attacks.

That makes strat boring as fuck.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Lt_Anders on October 13, 2011, 08:37:45 pm
Read his post again. That's intended  :wink:

Ah, ok. I think I got confused and thought that it was the same as the items.

Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Overdriven on October 13, 2011, 08:45:38 pm
I'm not sure that tying the amount of good's you can carry to your troop amount makes any sense. Surely you should be able to carry as many as you want because the risk is if you get attacked you are screwed as such? Otherwise the gold making process is going to be hellishly slow and there's no real point in going long distances to trade, because the amount you earn from trading far off will probably be less than the amount you could have gained from crafting and just sitting there. Add on the fact you'd be paying upkeep for troops if you wanted to carry more, and you have no incentive to trade over long distances at all.

I vote for the ability to have trade caravans with 0 protection. No limitation at all on the amount of goods you can carry to trade.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Keshian on October 13, 2011, 08:46:25 pm
These changes are not bad simply because they are obscure and silly but because with such a severe restriction on producing and equipping troops. The amount of effort it will require a clan to raise an army will be so huge that if they lose they will be in such a horrible position they might as well quit. This also encourages army hoarding until you are certain you can win leading to no one wanting to make initial attacks.

That makes strat boring as fuck.

Kind of seems the intention is to remove the most enjoyable part of strategus - staging large, cool epic battles and adding to the most boring part of Strategus - micromanagement
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Bjarky on October 13, 2011, 08:51:31 pm
These changes are not bad simply because they are obscure and silly but because with such a severe restriction on producing and equipping troops. The amount of effort it will require a clan to raise an army will be so huge that if they lose they will be in such a horrible position they might as well quit. This also encourages army hoarding until you are certain you can win leading to no one wanting to make initial attacks.

That makes strat boring as fuck.
no that makes it EU  :P
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Lt_Anders on October 13, 2011, 08:53:06 pm
no that makes it EU  :P

I see what you did there. :|
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: dynamike on October 13, 2011, 08:56:31 pm
Thanks chadz!

One thing I am still missing an official statement on (besides "figure it out") is how to GET the smithing skill.

We know it comes from within playing cRPG and has something to do with the armor/weapons you wear (btw, also for ones you do not longer own or have already heirloomed I noticed).

But what effects the likelihood of getting the mysterious text is still unclear.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Bjarky on October 13, 2011, 08:56:42 pm
I see what you did there. :|
^^
I'm not sure that tying the amount of good's you can carry to your troop amount makes any sense. Surely you should be able to carry as many as you want because the risk is if you get attacked you are screwed as such? Otherwise the gold making process is going to be hellishly slow and there's no real point in going long distances to trade, because the amount you earn from trading far off will probably be less than the amount you could have gained from crafting and just sitting there. Add on the fact you'd be paying upkeep for troops if you wanted to carry more, and you have no incentive to trade over long distances at all.
you are making an good point here.
i think it could either be an troop ---> expansional number of possible goods (until a certain limit.
or it could be chained to the amount of horses you own  :idea:  (pls add camel and equus africanus asinus, they could count for double the goods payload  :idea:)
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Overdriven on October 13, 2011, 08:58:20 pm
or it could be chained to the amount of horses you own  :idea:  (pls add camel and equus africanus asinus, they could count for double the goods payload  :idea:)

That's actually a good idea. Adding some form of pack animal and giving it an ability to provide you a bonus to the number of goods you can carry rather than tying it to troops is a much better idea. That way you could actually see some more dedicated traders. Otherwise at the moment all you are going to have is a crafting/selling grind fest in villages because no one is going to want to take 30 goods (that's how many troops before upkeep right?) half way across the map only to make a tiny profit when it would probably be more profitable, or only slightly less profitable to trade in the home village and far less effort.

Having to actually invest in something would make it a much nicer system.

Edit:

That way you could also have proper trade agreements between clans and also neutral traders. The profit vs effort atm is very low. The system definitely needs to be changed if it's going to encourage trading over distance.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Teeth on October 13, 2011, 09:02:27 pm
Does this mean the place to be for recruiting are no longer the villages, but castles from now on?
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Braeden on October 13, 2011, 09:02:46 pm
For those looking for a simpler gameplay option, I highly recommend this:

http://progressquest.com/play/roster.html (http://progressquest.com/play/roster.html)
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Turboflex on October 13, 2011, 09:14:16 pm
I'm not sure that tying the amount of good's you can carry to your troop amount makes any sense. Surely you should be able to carry as many as you want because the risk is if you get attacked you are screwed as such? Otherwise the gold making process is going to be hellishly slow and there's no real point in going long distances to trade, because the amount you earn from trading far off will probably be less than the amount you could have gained from crafting and just sitting there. Add on the fact you'd be paying upkeep for troops if you wanted to carry more, and you have no incentive to trade over long distances at all.

I vote for the ability to have trade caravans with 0 protection. No limitation at all on the amount of goods you can carry to trade.

For this + the too much micro complaints, it kind of depends on the balance, tweaking to make it worth it especially for large scale trading (profits - (time wasted+ management hassle+troop recruitment/upkeep costs)).

It looks like chadz' goal is to get a lot of large caravans in play, travelling inter-city routes, which is why cities are now marketplace hubs collecting production from smaller traders running out of local villages. Meanwhile larger clans/alliances (presumably larger clans will have people who ENJOY playing the micro game, to manage it all) will be operating inter-city trading routes between these hubs, and sending big 100-500 (or more?) troop sized caravans around between cities moving large scale volumes of goods across the map. The end result will be a lot more high value targets criss-crossing the map, so there's all kinds of battles taking place beyond the village CTF fest of Strat v2.0.

This is all in all a great idea and adding a lot of depth and more battles to strategus. It seems a bit intimidating since it is poorly explained and we all have nothing and are stuck on rivers but I think once the trade system gets rolling it will really add a lot.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Overdriven on October 13, 2011, 09:18:05 pm
(click to show/hide)

I can understand the potential. I just don't think huge trading caravans of however 100's of troops will be profitable regardless of how you do it. Especially because you can't sell crafted items (higher potential profit) to towns and only to players which would be a pain in the arse. Only goods can be sold to towns and other settlements. Which are very low cost/profit. I would very much like to play the trading game and be one of those criss crossing merchants and I can see that many others also would. But right now the idea of trying to maintain the upkeep of lots of troops in order to transfer lots of good's is simply daunting. I just think you should be able to do it without troops somehow if you really wanted.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Matey on October 13, 2011, 09:22:45 pm
please increase speed. with the current state of low speed and having to stand directly on a fief to enter it... inever want to move on the strat map... expecially since there are lots of rivers where i am... i cant just click "go here" and then come back in 12 hours and be there... id be stuck on a river. so instead i just dont go anywhere. if you up speed a bit then people who are interested in trading can run around and do trading... right now itll take like 120 hours for a round trip that has enough distance to be really worth it... thats not fun at all.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: chadz on October 13, 2011, 09:26:16 pm
I just think you should be able to do it without troops somehow if you really wanted.

I think you have a point there. The limitation was done when goods were buyable instantly - now, that they are produced one by one, this might be outdated. We'll think about it.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Overdriven on October 13, 2011, 09:27:32 pm
I think you have a point there. The limitation was done when goods were buyable instantly - now, that they are produced one by one, this might be outdated. We'll think about it.

Good to hear :)
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Konrax on October 13, 2011, 09:36:51 pm
What does quick march do and what are the costs of using it?
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Overdriven on October 13, 2011, 09:40:39 pm
What does quick march do and what are the costs of using it?

Something like double speed for a certain time. Not sure how long.

Then someone said the cool down was this:
470min, 50% exhaustion (half speed)
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Turboflex on October 13, 2011, 09:44:12 pm
I can understand the potential. I just don't think huge trading caravans of however 100's of troops will be profitable regardless of how you do it. Especially because you can't sell crafted items (higher potential profit) to towns and only to players which would be a pain in the arse. Only goods can be sold to towns and other settlements. Which are very low cost/profit. I would very much like to play the trading game and be one of those criss crossing merchants and I can see that many others also would. But right now the idea of trying to maintain the upkeep of lots of troops in order to transfer lots of good's is simply daunting. I just think you should be able to do it without troops somehow if you really wanted.

I don't see the point of allowing low troop/lots of good caravans. Once people start doing that, others will just start attacking them for easy loots. So I guess by all means add it but I don't think it will be very productive for the wannabee merchants, and it won't really generate much in the way of epic battles either.

The #s need to be balanced so that well guarded long distance caravans are very very profitable (way more profitable just shifting goods from village to NPC cities, to compensate for the extra time factor, and risk factor of attack) even with 100-500 guards. We'll see if increasing to 450% distance bonus is enough, maybe more would be needed.

Let's crunch some #s
Let's say 15 profit per good * 4.5 distance bonus * 500 = 33750 gold
But then you need to subtract 60 gold /hr for 500 troop guards, I dunno how long it would take to travel that 450% bonus over lets say plains, maybe 48 hours so that's only clipping off about 3000 profit, plus maybe minus another 500gold opportunity cost if the guy running the caravan had just stayed in a village. So 30,000k extra gold made over 48 hours for organizing a caravan according to my basic and possibly incorrect calculations? Seems like a decent deal right now. I guess we'll see over the next few weeks tho as things develop.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Overdriven on October 13, 2011, 09:49:13 pm
I don't see the point of allowing low troop/lots of good caravans. Once people start doing that, others will just start attacking them for easy loots. So I guess by all means add it but I don't think it will be very productive for the wannabee merchants, and it won't really generate much in the way of epic battles either.

The #s need to be balanced so that well guarded long distance caravans are very very profitable (way more profitable just shifting goods from village to NPC cities, to compensate for the extra time factor, and risk factor of attack) even with 100-500 guards. We'll see if increasing to 450% distance bonus is enough, maybe more would be needed.

Let's crunch some #s
Let's say 15 profit per good * 4.5 distance bonus * 500 = 33750 gold
But then you need to subtract 60 gold /hr for 500 troop guards, I dunno how long it would take to travel that 450% bonus over lets say plains, maybe 48 hours so that's only clipping off about 3000 profit, plus maybe minus another 500gold opportunity cost if the guy running the caravan had just stayed in a village. So 30,000k extra gold made over 48 hours for organizing a caravan according to my basic and possibly incorrect calculations? Seems like a decent deal right now. I guess we'll see over the next few weeks tho as things develop.

Hence the importance of trade agreements. That way you only trade with clans/across territories you have agreements with. Clans that attack neutral traders would also probably suffer because the towns, villages ect would earn a portion of their gold from the tax on goods in them (I assume this adjustable if you own the fief). If they became known to attack neutrals, less traders would go to them and therefore their fiefs would lose gold, and I'd imagine, prosperity. Trade would become very important to the general wealth of a clan once they gained fiefs. It would be in their interests to make trade agreements.

Troops are not the way to do it which ever way you look at it. Trade caravans would not have 500 troops on them. Maybe 100 troops absolute max for a very large caravan.

The way you describe it, the distance bonus would have to be adjusted. People have already tried going distances and apparently you need to travel the length of the map to get the full bonus. Add on the terrain obstacles, which unless your sitting at your computer 24/7, you will run into. Then you have way more than 48 hours. It took me close 100 hours to get from Aldelen (near Tihr) to Halmar because of the obstacles.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: arowaine on October 13, 2011, 09:52:18 pm
Wow, you have to an epic troll to be banned from the goons.


Also, chadz - you need to keep gold from cRPG the sam,e as before if not even tweak it to 1 gold higher per level tick.  The new gold system means upkeep will be utterly impossible, let alone equipping them.  No real battles, just another boring stupid trading game, which the majority of cRPG players are not interested in except as a minor addition, not as the whole fricken game.

Only the anal retentive like the kind of micromanagement this new system entails without even the reward of having epic battles.

+1 to kesh this game is war and conquest not party gay time
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Turboflex on October 13, 2011, 09:57:09 pm
Hence the importance of trade agreements. That way you only trade with clans/across territories you have agreements with. Clans that attack neutral traders would also probably suffer because the towns, villages ect would earn a portion of their gold from the tax on goods in them. If they became known to attack neutrals, less traders would go to them and therefore their fiefs would lose gold, and I'd imagine, prosperity. Trade would become very important to the general wealth of a clan once they gained fiefs. It would be in their interests to make trade agreements.

Troops are not the way to do it which ever way you look at it. Trade caravans would not have 500 troops on them. Maybe 100 troops absolute max for a very large caravan.

Well it's also a game and we want to see the system generating epic battles whic would be the downside of 1-30 troop sized caravans because there would be no real battle there if it was attacked crossing someone's land. Though you would want to curve the system so too many troops becomes inefficient otherwise why not send 10,000 goods/troops? There should be an optimal # determined, like how many tickets would you need for a nice 20-30 minute long battle? Any more than that and you would be dumping too many goods in your destination's market, flood it and surpress the price of goods.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Overdriven on October 13, 2011, 09:59:00 pm
Well it's also a game and we want to see the system generating epic battles whic would be the downside of 1-30 troop sized caravans because there would be no real battle there if it was attacked crossing someone's land. Though you would want to curve the system so too many troops becomes inefficient otherwise why not send 10,000 goods/troops? There should be an optimal # determined, like how many tickets would you need for a nice 20-30 minute long battle? Any more than that and you would be dumping too many goods in your destination's market, flood it and surpress the price of goods.

But the point of traders is not to fight epic battles. Those will be a separate thing. They are there to generate the wealth needed for other people to maintain the armies. Caravans should be involved in as few battles as possible. That way you also make it more interesting for the general player. You have some commanding the armies, but also some generating the wealth for the clan.

There should be some form of limit on numbers of goods. But tying it to troops isn't sensible. Tying it to something else would make more sense.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Turboflex on October 13, 2011, 10:02:46 pm
The way you describe it, the distance bonus would have to be adjusted. People have already tried going distances and apparently you need to travel the length of the map to get the full bonus. Add on the terrain obstacles, which unless your sitting at your computer 24/7, you will run into. Then you have way more than 48 hours. It took me close 100 hours to get from Aldelen (near Tihr) to Halmar because of the obstacles.

Yeah I agree the #s will need to be carefully looked at. Once chadz figures out what is his optimal caravan size (I would tilt to larger sized for better battles but others  like you might disagree) he would need to figure out how much gold /day it should make travelling and balance around that, a realistic & typical voyage should perhaps just be 1/3 of 1/4 of map, with an  exponential bonus for going further to reflect on the extra tedium and danger.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Overdriven on October 13, 2011, 10:07:03 pm
Yeah I agree the #s will need to be carefully looked at. Once chadz figures out what is his optimal caravan size (I would tilt to larger sized for better battles but others  like you might disagree) he would need to figure out how much gold /day it should make travelling and balance around that, a realistic & typical voyage should perhaps just be 1/3 of 1/4 of map, with an  exponential bonus for going further to reflect on the extra tedium and danger.

I'm not saying traders shouldn't have troops anyway. They could still have troops, it just shouldn't affect the amount of goods they can carry. If they wanted troops they could have them, but they should also be able to carry goods if they don't want troops. But regardless, the battles shouldn't be fought by traders. They should be fought by the main armies of a clan. If people wanted to attack traders then they would probably have to have small, manoeuvrable raiding forces. But like I said, traders would stick to territories that are safe, and clans that attack traders would lose out.

It won't limit the number of epic battles you have. If anything it would probably increase them because armies/traders would be two seperate entities and so armies could focus on battles and traders on wealth. That way they also have to rely on each other. Armies to secure land and control territories, and traders to generate wealth to support those armies.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Turboflex on October 13, 2011, 10:09:29 pm
But the point of traders is not to fight epic battles. Those will be a separate thing. They are there to generate the wealth needed for other people to maintain the armies. Caravans should be involved in as few battles as possible. That way you also make it more interesting for the general player. You have some commanding the armies, but also some generating the wealth for the clan.

There should be some form of limit on numbers of goods. But tying it to troops isn't sensible. Tying it to something else would make more sense.

You might like the idea of setting up peaceful trade treaties through diplomacy to allow the passage of lightly guarded caravans but I can assure you that plenty of other players (including my "Norse Horde" clan) are looking quite keenly on the idea of ambushing (using that nifty new terrain) and plundering those same caravans which is why there will usually be a need to guard them very heavily.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Turboflex on October 13, 2011, 10:12:00 pm
I'm not saying traders shouldn't have troops anyway. They could still have troops, it just shouldn't affect the amount of goods they can carry. If they wanted troops they could have them, but they should also be able to carry goods if they don't want troops. But regardless, the battles shouldn't be fought by traders. They should be fought by the main armies of a clan. If people wanted to attack traders then they would probably have to have small, manoeuvrable raiding forces. But like I said, traders would stick to territories that are safe, and clans that attack traders would lose out.

It won't limit the number of epic battles you have. If anything it would probably increase them because armies/traders would be two seperate entities and so armies could focus on battles and traders on wealth. That way they also have to rely on each other. Armies to secure land and control territories, and traders to generate wealth to support those armies.

OK well mostly agreed here. It will be neat to see how it shakes out now over the next few weeks once everyone gets settled, builds up and starts running them.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Bjarky on October 13, 2011, 10:22:47 pm
yum, all these words of caravans and guards make my earlobes tickle ^^
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: SPQR on October 13, 2011, 10:28:37 pm
Dude I think you're seriously underestimating how long it takes to get anywhere. It took me 24 hours to travel from Bazek to Ulduban with only 40 troops, and the aid of a quick march at the end. Total trade bonus from that distance: 34%


Just some experimental math to take 100 goods across the map with 100 troops:

100 goods at 8gold per item: 800
10 Smithing Skill x 1.5 items per hour = 67 hours x 5 gold per hour visiting fee = 335
100 Troops = 8 gold upkeep per hour (someone check this, not sure this is right)
168 hours to cross map: 168 x 8= 1344
Total Cost: 2479

100 goods @ 450% of 16 = 72x100 = 7200

7200 - 2479 = 4721 profit

4721 / 235 hours = 20 gold per hour return
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: BaleOhay on October 13, 2011, 10:33:29 pm
then you have to travel back.. so do not forget that cost. unless you stay out there and start crafting again for a return trip... in someone else town.. who will be charging you rent
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: SPQR on October 13, 2011, 10:34:43 pm
Also not factoring in the 10k needed to equip those troops.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Turboflex on October 13, 2011, 10:47:05 pm
Dude I think you're seriously underestimating how long it takes to get anywhere. It took me 24 hours to travel from Bazek to Ulduban with only 40 troops, and the aid of a quick march at the end. Total trade bonus from that distance: 34%

Probably am, I admitted my #s were very rudimentry and said chadz will have to take a very close look at balancing trade route profits especially now since it seems it's gonna be one of the main ways to fund clan armies.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: chadz on October 13, 2011, 11:02:50 pm
The troop limit is removed for now - everyone is free to carry as many goods with as few troops as he wants. This is only a temporary solution, though, and I can't tell yet what will be added instead - either showing how many goods someone is carrying with him, or doing a speed penalty when you have fewer troops that goods.

Either way, for now, nothing of those is added.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Lt_Anders on October 13, 2011, 11:10:57 pm
The troop limit is removed for now - everyone is free to carry as many goods with as few troops as he wants. This is only a temporary solution, though, and I can't tell yet what will be added instead - either showing how many goods someone is carrying with him, or doing a speed penalty when you have fewer troops that goods.

Either way, for now, nothing of those is added.

Why not show the amount of goods a person carries. This means that, if someone carries 500 goods and only 20 troops, he has a serious risk.

Use Capatilism! High Risk, High Reward.
Low/No soldiers, high goods. Good profit, but easily taken.
Mid/high Soldiers, High goods, minimal profit, but guaranteed!
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: SPQR on October 13, 2011, 11:12:55 pm
The troop limit is removed for now - everyone is free to carry as many goods with as few troops as he wants. This is only a temporary solution, though, and I can't tell yet what will be added instead - either showing how many goods someone is carrying with him, or doing a speed penalty when you have fewer troops that goods.

Either way, for now, nothing of those is added.

I think a good solution would be to have different map icons for your character depending on your party make up.

If you are just walking around with some troops and not much equipment, use the current peasant-man icon.
If you are carrying a substantial amount of trading goods, use a wagon icon.
If you have a substantial amount of troops AND equipment, use a soldier icon.

I'm gonna see if I can draw something to show what I'm talking about.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Ujin on October 13, 2011, 11:14:12 pm
Why not show the amount of goods a person carries. This means that, if someone carries 500 goods and only 20 troops, he has a serious risk.

Use Capatilism! High Risk, High Reward.
Low/No soldiers, high goods. Good profit, but easily taken.
Mid/high Soldiers, High goods, minimal profit, but guaranteed!
Clans from the western part of the map would turn mega rich in no-time with this system =).
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Lt_Anders on October 13, 2011, 11:17:54 pm
Clans from the western part of the map would turn mega rich in no-time with this system =).

Why? Oh the massive alliance butt buddies?
Well, then raiders would still be good. A single 3 guy raider party against a single trader. Should work.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Jacko on October 13, 2011, 11:18:47 pm
Whiners gonna whine.

I think it's awesome that We (as in Everyone and not just the chosen few) now can enjoy trying to make a decent living in the plentiful country of Calrdadia.  Sure, it will need fine tuning, but it's still great. I mean, the possibilities for small clans and robbers just increased tenfold, while bigger clans still have to cope with, well, being big and trying to coordinate all their players. In the end, you still only have to do 1 or 2 clicks more to earn money, I don't really see what the fuzz is about. 
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: LLJK_Goatee on October 13, 2011, 11:52:55 pm
great job you killed the mod
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Beans on October 14, 2011, 12:04:51 am
I think a good solution would be to have different map icons for your character depending on your party make up.

If you are just walking around with some troops and not much equipment, use the current peasant-man icon.
If you are carrying a substantial amount of trading goods, use a wagon icon.
If you have a substantial amount of troops AND equipment, use a soldier icon.

I'm gonna see if I can draw something to show what I'm talking about.

This is a really good idea. But we would need some better tools to view the map. Right now it is too clustered.

Please add the ability to zoom in more and maybe some ways to filter what names of people you see. Maybe based on distance? Or you can turn off all names and then click their little man and see the name.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: PhantomZero on October 14, 2011, 12:11:23 am
Yeah make sure large amounts of troops, equipment, AND trade goods is a soldier man with a wagon.

Or a battle wagon.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Hrafn on October 14, 2011, 12:16:03 am
I think a good solution would be to have different map icons for your character depending on your party make up.

If you are just walking around with some troops and not much equipment, use the current peasant-man icon.
If you are carrying a substantial amount of trading goods, use a wagon icon.
If you have a substantial amount of troops AND equipment, use a soldier icon.

I'm gonna see if I can draw something to show what I'm talking about.
This. Very good idea.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on October 14, 2011, 12:18:03 am
Why can't I craft anything than wood carvings?

I know I received the message a few times :/

Or do you have to be in a certain village to craft certain things?
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Beans on October 14, 2011, 12:33:48 am
Why can't I craft anything than wood carvings?

I know I received the message a few times :/

Or do you have to be in a certain village to craft certain things?

To smith equipment you need to go to a TOWN. They are the really big castles. In fiefs/villages you can make the 1 local trade good(that wood?) and then some random gear.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Dehitay on October 14, 2011, 12:44:00 am
Apart from that, the skill also defines how many items you produce per hour. Every hour, there is a random chance of 15% per smithing skill to produce it. so with a smithing skill of 10, you have to chances against 15% to produce the item, so you will probably get 1 or 2 of those items.
This would make a lot more sense if the number listed next to the items I can craft wasn't a percentage. For example, next to Masterwork Longsword, I have 8%. From your explanation, this could mean one of 3 things.
A) I have less than a single smithing skill
B) This the end result of a formula that gives an estimated average of how many hours of my work would produce a MW Longsword if I crafted them indefinitely
C) I have a smithing skill of 8 and you added a percent sign to confuse the ever living hell out of me

Edit: Nevermind. Found the answer in another thread. Turns out it was C

The troop limit is removed for now - everyone is free to carry as many goods with as few troops as he wants. This is only a temporary solution, though, and I can't tell yet what will be added instead - either showing how many goods someone is carrying with him, or doing a speed penalty when you have fewer troops that goods.

Either way, for now, nothing of those is added.
This actually introducing a new interesting possibility. You could add a "Hire Scouts" option which costs 10 gold or so per hour. Anybody who has this option active and has had it active for more than an hour can see how many goods anybody in their sight is carrying. People who wanted to get into raiding would start hiring scouts and roaming around for easy targets
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on October 14, 2011, 12:56:25 am
To smith equipment you need to go to a TOWN. They are the really big castles. In fiefs/villages you can make the 1 local trade good(that wood?) and then some random gear.

Hhhmmm....one of the guards I know can produce his loomed items in a village and he is in the same village as I am :/
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Beans on October 14, 2011, 01:09:22 am
Well maybe I'm wrong and its anywhere. But then what is the difference between a village/fief and a town?
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on October 14, 2011, 01:18:49 am
totally dead, dead dead.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Dehitay on October 14, 2011, 01:25:23 am
Why can't I craft anything than wood carvings?

I know I received the message a few times :/

Or do you have to be in a certain village to craft certain things?
The most likely cause of your problem is that you don't have any smithing skill. How long have you been playing crpg? And have you ever seen the "All thine hard work payeth off" text before?

Edit: Just looked at your date registered. Unless you barely play your main at all, you should probly have smithing skill by now. My new most likely theory is that the dev team hates you specifically. There's also a vague possibility that you're poor and you need the production cost of an item before it even pops up in your crafting menu.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Overdriven on October 14, 2011, 01:28:38 am
The troop limit is removed for now - everyone is free to carry as many goods with as few troops as he wants. This is only a temporary solution, though, and I can't tell yet what will be added instead - either showing how many goods someone is carrying with him, or doing a speed penalty when you have fewer troops that goods.

Either way, for now, nothing of those is added.

Thanks chadz...that's great  :D I think now we can see a real incentive to get some trade networks set up within clans and it will be good to see the system tested. Will look forward to when you add a new system for managing the goods numbers.

The most likely cause of your problem is that you don't have any smithing skill. How long have you been playing crpg? And have you ever seen the "All thine hard work payeth off" text before?

Is it possible that the prosperity rating of the fief determines what goods you can craft? I know in the village I'm in the prosperity is +2 and I can craft tons of stuff. Maybe a lower prosperity means less crafting. I think that might be his issue as a random guess.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on October 14, 2011, 01:34:15 am
The most likely cause of your problem is that you don't have any smithing skill. How long have you been playing crpg? And have you ever seen the "All thine hard work payeth off" text before?

Edit: Just looked at your date registered. Unless you barely play your main at all, you should probly have smithing skill by now. My new most likely theory is that the dev team hates you specifically. There's also a vague possibility that you're poor and you need the production cost of an item before it even pops up in your crafting menu.

I just wanted to start complaining but it seems you figured it out by yourself that I might have gotten this message^^  And I know I got it a few times. Not as much as some other Guards, but still more than once :/

The thingy with my money and the prosperity thingy sound reasonable. But some of my stuff I usually wore is pretty cheap (pilgrim disguise and hood, leather gloves and rus shoes. longbow and bodkins might be a bit more expensive :/ )

I'll see what happens in the next days, maybe it pops up
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: LLJK_Simonslays on October 14, 2011, 01:36:26 am
The whole caravans and trading aspect might give some of the clanless guys a reason to take part in strat and a chance to earn infamy and gold as bandits. It might lead to guilds putting bounties on certain players, a bunch of these highwaymen using their gold to outfit a small army and taking over an isolated village or other stuff that might add a bit more depth to the game.

In the actual clan warfare stakes, it would make cutting off your enemies trade routes to starve them of cash a viable prospect.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Overdriven on October 14, 2011, 01:55:36 am
The troop limit is removed for now - everyone is free to carry as many goods with as few troops as he wants. This is only a temporary solution, though, and I can't tell yet what will be added instead - either showing how many goods someone is carrying with him, or doing a speed penalty when you have fewer troops that goods.

Either way, for now, nothing of those is added.

Just thinking more about these 2 ideas. Why not add both?

Allow people to see how many goods you carry if they are in your vicinity. In the stats. But also reducing movement related to goods per number of troops could see some pretty cool chases of merchants with the new movement when clicking attack/quick march function. I think both would balance it nicely as long as the goods per troop ratio was balanced well. Caravans definitely shouldn't be armies but they should also have a reason to be fairly well protected at times. Again...risk vs reward balanced with effort needed.

As Simon above says. Those 2 aspects could see some real potential for clans to find out each others trade routes and cut them off.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Panoply on October 14, 2011, 02:16:13 am
Great work! There desperately needs to be some mechanism to view the gold and goods (maybe equipment as well?) that another person is carrying. Whether this is free or not, or exact or not, is up in the air, but at least some way to ballpark estimate would be great.

EDIT: Also, the amount of stuff you're carrying should also slow you down. I say this because if you want there to be any sort of banditry, you have to have some way for a group with more troops to catch up with a group with less troops. Ambushes don't seem very practical. Some sort of raid option for attacking a larger group with a smaller group for profit might also help.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Jarlek on October 14, 2011, 02:20:51 am
Great work! There desperately needs to be some mechanism to view the gold and goods (maybe equipment as well?) that another person is carrying. Whether this is free or not, or exact or not, is up in the air, but at least some way to ballpark estimate would be great.

EDIT: Also, the amount of stuff you're carrying should also slow you down. I say this because if you want there to be any sort of banditry, you have to have some way for a group with more troops to catch up with a group with less troops. Ambushes don't seem very practical. Some sort of raid option for attacking a larger group with a smaller group for profit might also help.
Quickmarch should fix the "catching up" part. Only thing is that the small group being ambushed can quickmarch too, but that could be seen as "scouts located hostiles. Run like hell!"
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Dehitay on October 14, 2011, 03:49:35 am
Quickmarch should fix the "catching up" part. Only thing is that the small group being ambushed can quickmarch too, but that could be seen as "scouts located hostiles. Run like hell!"
Yeah, but it's not immediately obvious which players may be after you or which are quick marching, so things get dangerous. I mean it's not like bandits and pillagers are going to start their names like Bandits_Player or Pillagers_Guy. Now that would just be stupid.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Bjarky on October 14, 2011, 04:26:17 am
- Item price got multiplied by 4 (from /100 to /25)
seriously? it will already be hard to upkeep troops and gain gold, this is really not gonna work well.

plus i can only buy on trade good per hour, it says 77% efficiency for the fief and 100% for the Marble Sculptures , but i only got 1 item per hour O_O
 how should we be able to make money with this? or is just a little bug?
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Visconti on October 14, 2011, 04:31:20 am
Do villages still have the same recruit rates as before? or has it been nerfed for villages?
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Bjarky on October 14, 2011, 04:32:53 am
Do villages still have the same recruit rates as before? or has it been nerfed for villages?
nerfed, castles are the new place for it.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Visconti on October 14, 2011, 05:13:15 am
nerfed, castles are the new place for it.

What are the rates for villages now, same as castles were in previous strat?
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Turboflex on October 14, 2011, 05:55:15 am
villages about 40%
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Dalhi on October 14, 2011, 07:13:10 pm
nvm
(click to show/hide)
That confused me  :(


@edit.
- Item price got multiplied by 4 (from /100 to /25)
Well, it's kinda a lot, won't be easy to equip troops, didn't even realise that this affect the prices that much  :(.

@edit2. The funny thing about it is that I'll pay 126g for crafting MW Elite scimitar, while the regular one costs 324g  :lol:
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Flawless on October 14, 2011, 07:19:33 pm
Its now for one item.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Niemand on October 14, 2011, 07:53:42 pm
I usually dont whine, but this gotta get out:

I lost around 70 gold while sitting in a village and recruiting. It just disappeared. I had 110 gold, 5 hours later i only got 10 gold left. Village-rent/tax is 5 gold. makes it 25 gold for the 5 hours. but where is the rest gone to?

Also with this new system I will not be able to play strategus any longer. It forces me to play crpg at least 4 hours each day. i am not lifeless enough for that. There are other games, I want to read a book and I got some work to do. Also I have to sleep once in a while. Makes it 2 to 3 hours of cRPG-playing each day. This way I cant afford to stay in a village for one day. Well. I should be able to stay in a village IF MY GOLD WOULD NOT VANISH! -.-

And when my gold would not vanish, how do you think i could afford to attack someone/somebody? Or supply my allies? No chance dudes. I love this mod, its great work... but I dont wanna play it 24/7. :(
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Turboflex on October 14, 2011, 08:14:02 pm
I usually dont whine, but this gotta get out:

I lost around 70 gold while sitting in a village and recruiting. It just disappeared. I had 110 gold, 5 hours later i only got 10 gold left. Village-rent/tax is 5 gold. makes it 25 gold for the 5 hours. but where is the rest gone to?

Also with this new system I will not be able to play strategus any longer. It forces me to play crpg at least 4 hours each day. i am not lifeless enough for that. There are other games, I want to read a book and I got some work to do. Also I have to sleep once in a while. Makes it 2 to 3 hours of cRPG-playing each day. This way I cant afford to stay in a village for one day. Well. I should be able to stay in a village IF MY GOLD WOULD NOT VANISH! -.-

And when my gold would not vanish, how do you think i could afford to attack someone/somebody? Or supply my allies? No chance dudes. I love this mod, its great work... but I dont wanna play it 24/7. :(

1) I dunno about your gold disappearing, but you should be recruiting in castles now not villages

2) Even if you don't want to do anything else manageing your char in strategus, in villages you should be able to make some money just by sitting in there, crafting goods and re-selling. The only thing you need to check is if you have enough gold to not get kicked out before you login to sell. This is the old equivilent of "work" but requires a bit more effort.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Niemand on October 14, 2011, 09:06:59 pm
that is not really a problem. I am not noobish enough to fail at common sense. But its pissing me off that I cant play 2 hours and sit in the village, recruiting, the whole rest of the day.

And yes, I already read that I should recruit in castles. But a recruiting-rate of 42% in a village, where only 2 other ppl are is better than recuriting in a castle with 4045949450 people sitting in and recruiting. aight? aight.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Turboflex on October 14, 2011, 09:27:08 pm
It's 100% in castles and I can't say for sure but I don't think the # of people inside matters.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Dehitay on October 14, 2011, 11:51:14 pm
I usually dont whine, but this gotta get out:

I lost around 70 gold while sitting in a village and recruiting. It just disappeared. I had 110 gold, 5 hours later i only got 10 gold left. Village-rent/tax is 5 gold. makes it 25 gold for the 5 hours. but where is the rest gone to?
Upkeep, when you're army gets large, you have to pay them to work for you. If you don't want to pay them, then donate them to your clan as you get them. Once it gets above 35 or so, it'll start costing you. Of course, if you don't play crpg enough to pay upkeep (trust me, it's a hell of a lot less than 4 hours unless you flat out never get a multiplier), then you need to drop off your army to your clan and start crafting goods. Or if you're lazy, start begging.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Niemand on October 15, 2011, 02:46:43 am
my army had around 10 people. it dropped to 6 when i looked at it, so no upkeep for the army. it was like a timewarp for 8 hours, but i kept some gold that i hadnt 8 hours before.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Jarlek on October 15, 2011, 03:45:39 am
my army had around 10 people. it dropped to 6 when i looked at it, so no upkeep for the army. it was like a timewarp for 8 hours, but i kept some gold that i hadnt 8 hours before.
Read the most obvious first. Threads made by chadz. There was a bug that caused serious imbalance so they did a 24h rewind.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Niemand on October 15, 2011, 04:57:40 am
such stuff should be posted in the OP. -.-
I dun wunna search thru a whole thread to find every little thing. -.-
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Brutal on October 15, 2011, 08:33:39 am
I don t want to make an effort and click sell good every two day.
I don't want change, i don't want to adapt.
I don't want to search new information were everything is listed in the OP.


I want everything to stay the same under god.

chadz you terrorist, the strategus way of life is not negotiable .
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: TlePecBeT on October 15, 2011, 09:11:26 am
I have received crude obsidian in one village. Has come to nearest city to sell it. In a city it is possible to do iron ornaments. Why I sell a crude obsidian at the price of iron ornaments? In what then sense/mechanism of trade?
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: Braeden on October 15, 2011, 09:14:09 am
I have received crude обсидин in one village. Has come to nearest city to sell it. In a city it is possible to do iron ornaments. Why I a crude obsidian at the price of iron ornaments? In what then sense/mechanism of trade?

The name of items is just to add flavor.  All trade goods are the same, and price is based on distance of trade / local factors, nothing else at the moment.  The system is rudimentary, it really shouldn't be examined too closely for sense.
Title: Re: Strategus patch - changelog
Post by: TlePecBeT on October 15, 2011, 09:20:54 am
The question is removed :oops: