cRPG

Off Topic => Historical Discussion => Topic started by: Swahili_Zulu_Mon on September 27, 2011, 01:39:02 pm

Title: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Swahili_Zulu_Mon on September 27, 2011, 01:39:02 pm
Gladiator, Mongol, Rome (HBO series, I know it's not a movie, but you really can't deny its awesomeness).

Oh yeah, of course the greatest movie of all time, Shaka Zulu (1986).
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Gnjus on September 27, 2011, 02:09:22 pm
You might like these titles as well:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058777/

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080180/

They're not perfect (especially the second one) but for a Zulu fan it's all there is, although I'm sure you already know about 'em. :wink:

Also - i could go on with numerous titles now and many people will throw in anything they can remember of but it's all kinda pointless since its a matter of personal taste for movies.  :wink:
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: LordBerenger on September 27, 2011, 02:31:11 pm
'' Jeanne'D'Arc ''

'' Braveheart ''

'' Kingdom of Heaven (?) ''


Too bad alot of these medieval movies are filled with historical inaccuracies but they're atleast good.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Overdriven on September 27, 2011, 07:30:09 pm
I personally love Gladiator, Kingdom of Heaven, Zulu (which Gnjus posted). Alexander isn't so bad either.

O and my girlfriends Indian and she got me to try some bollywood historical movies. Give Mangal Pandey - The Rising a go. It's actually rather good. And Asoka is the other I think but that wasn't quite so good.

If you doubt me just watch the hot dancing girls in Mangal Pandey:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeWEugwkZ1Y

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0346457/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0249371/
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Joseph on September 27, 2011, 07:51:04 pm
A knight's tale is still a good choice.

I like the "sport" feeling in the movie.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: hamiler on September 27, 2011, 08:11:54 pm
theres on called Attila one of my favs

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0259127/
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Penitent on September 27, 2011, 10:14:56 pm
A knight's tale is still a good choice.

I like the "sport" feeling in the movie.

I'm sorry, this is one of the worst movies I've ever seen...not just medieval movies...just the worst in total. :)
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Swahili_Zulu_Mon on September 28, 2011, 12:11:29 am
Has anyone seen Sparticus (1960), not the show, the show is utter fucking shit. If you like the show gtfo and never talk to me again.

Is this movie any good? I don't mind if its older, I just want a good, epic historical movie.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: LordBerenger on September 28, 2011, 12:26:32 am
Has anyone seen Sparticus (1960), not the show, the show is utter fucking shit. If you like the show gtfo and never talk to me again.

Is this movie any good? I don't mind if its older, I just want a good, epic historical movie.

You mean ''Spartacus'' not Sparticus ( :D ) the movie from 1960? Yeah.

It's a good movie. My opinion isn't the same as everyone else but if i would give it a score i'd give it a 74/100.

Good stuff being a sweet soundtrack and good job by the actors. Gotta love TCM airing some of these classics though from time to time.

Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: LordBerenger on September 28, 2011, 12:31:12 am
Double Post: But if you really really want a good medieval-ish movie that's not made in the 21th century watch ''El Cid'' it's a masterpiece.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Joseph on September 28, 2011, 06:14:54 am
I'm sorry, this is one of the worst movies I've ever seen...not just medieval movies...just the worst in total. :)

You seen very few movies then.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Lorenzo_of_Iberia on September 28, 2011, 10:23:44 am
300...
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Kunio on September 28, 2011, 10:25:21 am
300...

http://dagobah.net/flash/Sparta.swf
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: NuberT on September 28, 2011, 10:41:14 am
Excalibor - dark,bloody and evil :twisted:

the best in my opinion, not historicly accurate though^^

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082348/
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Christo on September 28, 2011, 11:45:34 am
What about Ivanhoe? I liked that movie.
(I've seen only the 1982 version of it, but it was very good.)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084157/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084157/)

Yeah El Cid is golden, can't argue against that.

Erm, that Atilla the Hun movie wasn't THAT bad in my opinion, could've been better, but I've seen worse.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Bobthehero on September 28, 2011, 07:26:58 pm
The extended version of Kingdom of Heaven is great.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: HistorianDude on September 28, 2011, 08:07:03 pm
It all depends on whether you are saying 'it was a fun thing to watch' or 'it was a good historical movie.'

Good historical movies are hard to come by. I am often just happy to find one that has a semi-decent 'feel' because the details are rarely any good, especially concerning warfare.

I enjoyed the feel of the warfare in Gladiator. Even the way it was filmed, most accurately represented to me the sensations you go through in an extended combat scenario - the supernaturally crisp and clear, degrading into the blur and the muffled silence, then the detatched slow-motion.

Braveheart would have been OK but it was just SO FAR OFF about everything I couldn't get over it. I could go on forever about details like the woad being about 1000 years off base, and the princess really being about 12 and in France at the time, and Piers Gaveston (the prince's lover) was not a limp wristed poof but the most unbeatable combat god of his age and not about to be pushed out of any window...

But the main thing, for the purpose of this thread, was that they couldn't even put the Battle of Stirling Bridge on a bridge. They put it in a field. I mean, really? Can't even give us that?
 
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Bobthehero on September 28, 2011, 08:19:21 pm
KoH was fun to watch and the armor/arms (at least for the Europeans) were quite realistic, as well as the way they worked, like when Balian gets hit by a sword on his mailed arm, the hit breaks the links and injurehim a little. There's the skirimish when Balian and his knight charge the Saraceen, you can see some of them getting hit and surviving thanks to their armor, shows how the Euro had the upper hand armor-wise.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Lars on September 28, 2011, 08:43:27 pm
"Il mestiere delle armi" - "the profession of arms" By Ermanno Olmi,  It's one of the best medieval/reinnassance movie i have seen.
"Olmi attempts to recreate the stark realities of war and daily life in Europe around 1510, without concessions to "artistic license". While the "300" crowd would probably find this boring, anyone seriously interested in history (and good moviemaking) should try to watch this"

The movie tells the  story of Giovanni de Medici, also known as "Delle bande nere"(probably because he and his troops used black armors and a black insignia, if i remeber well), a mercenary warlord at the service of the pope at the beginning of 1500's.

Trailer http://video.sky.it/mag/cinema/il_mestiere_delle_armi__il_trailer/v28368.vid 
If you are interested in this movie, you should watch it in italian , when they swear in italian/dialect it's priceless

Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: HistorianDude on September 28, 2011, 08:45:57 pm
Sounds great Lars, I'll definitely look into it.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Bobthehero on September 28, 2011, 09:44:32 pm
Sounds great Lars, I'll definitely look into it.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Overdriven on September 29, 2011, 12:22:06 am
The extended version of Kingdom of Heaven is great.

Original was crap. Extended version is one of my favourite movies of all time. For those who haven't seen it, it's not just a normal extended version with a couple extra scenes. Pretty much retells the entire story with far more depth.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Xant on September 29, 2011, 03:05:57 pm
Troy.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Siiem on September 29, 2011, 03:56:13 pm
Troy.

 :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :)
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Prinz_Karl on September 30, 2011, 06:00:10 pm
If you want to see thousand of soldiers that are not computer animated, watch this movie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgngFW4rqyw

It's a good movie but unfortunately the quality is bad.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Siiem on September 30, 2011, 06:03:34 pm
If you want to see thousand of soldiers that are not computer animated, watch this movie.

Damn, whats the point then. :(
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Tot. on September 30, 2011, 07:05:50 pm
Not mentioned so far:
- Alatriste
- Alexander (the movie itself is rather poor but there are some really nice battle scenes like the Gaugamela)
- Ironclad (same as above)
- Ridley Scotts Robin Hood (just the initial siege really, everything else is, uh, watchable at most)
- 1066: Battle for Middle-Earth

If you want to see thousand of soldiers that are not computer animated, watch this movie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgngFW4rqyw

It's a good movie but unfortunately the quality is bad.

The french horse charge (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97dBfdNrf9A) in Waterloo is still imho the most epic battle scene shot ever given the fact they did it in 1970 and those are all real guys and real horses.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Rogue_Eagle on September 30, 2011, 11:49:51 pm
really didn't like the new robin hood at all..

Love kingdom of heaven extended, never seen the original. But it's good for getting you into it because its so detailed and involving and long.

Troy was good too, never seen spears used like that before :D

My big problem with Gladiator was that 4 shot crossbow thing. Should have used bows imo.

Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: ArchonAlarion on October 01, 2011, 09:36:11 am
"FLESH + BLOOD"

very mount and bladey feel imo
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Thomek on October 03, 2011, 02:11:41 pm
Ironclad is a crap/good movie.. It's all like 1 long crpg siege.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Xant on October 03, 2011, 04:02:26 pm
Ironclad is a crap/good movie.. It's all like 1 long crpg siege.

Ironclad is weird. At times it seems like it had a good budget and at times like it had a budget of 5 dollas... I'd say the IMDB rating of 6.2 is pretty accurate. It's a fun movie, but not exactly a good movie.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Thomek on October 03, 2011, 05:44:53 pm
exactly, fun to watch for a crpg player, but not a good movie :)

It was made way under budget btw, but they decided to go forth and make it anyway.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Joker86 on October 04, 2011, 04:49:42 pm
Alatriste already got mentioned, and I repeat that suggestion, as it didn't receive any special attention.

In my eyes it's one of the mest historic movies ever, at least concerning military aspects. The story itself is a little bit confusing, as I think they skipped a lot to be able to pack everything in one movie. Nonetheless it has some of the best (and partially most brutal) battle scenes of all movies:

Careful! Spoiler! Shows the last scene of the movie! If you want to have a look at the battles it's enough to watch until the negotiations start. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct0ZqyJUfY8)
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Herkkutatti on October 04, 2011, 07:15:01 pm
i like them all :3
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Overdriven on October 04, 2011, 07:41:24 pm
If you want to see thousand of soldiers that are not computer animated, watch this movie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgngFW4rqyw

It's a good movie but unfortunately the quality is bad.

Just DLed that movie and watched it. One of my fav time periods. Have to say it was rather an impressive movie when taking into account the non-animated soldiers thing.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Henry_Broodsonson on October 08, 2011, 02:48:35 pm
Gladiator, Mongol, Rome (HBO series, I know it's not a movie, but you really can't deny its awesomeness).

Oh yeah, of course the greatest movie of all time, Shaka Zulu (1986).

Hmm, the Rome series. It seemed like the goal of the script writer was to have every character shag every other character. It was ok apart from that.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Xant on October 08, 2011, 02:51:15 pm
Not really. There really wasn't that much sex.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Henry_Broodsonson on October 08, 2011, 02:55:49 pm
Really? I must have seen a different version then?
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Draggon on October 08, 2011, 08:00:26 pm
Ironclad:
I think the director and/or producer had to have played Warband – lol.  I mean come on, epic gatehouse defense, archers firing down on soldiers moving the siege tower, 1h hammer spam, polearm moves, 2h spam, shield walls, tin can cav, OP throwing… the whole nine. =P

Braveheart:
Even though a couple of the battles weren’t depicted accurately at all – it was still an excellent movie.

Centurion:
Fucking epic Pict vs. Roman action.  Showed the whole reason why Hadrian’s Wall was built in a historical fiction kinda way.

300:
Obviously.
Of course would love to see the Part II of this, or parallel sequel, about the equally epic naval battle that was fought right alongside to keep the Persian fleet from going around Leonidas.  At the Straits of Artemisium, Themistocles and his measely group of 271 triremes defeated the massive fleet of 1200 Persian ships.  Would make for an awesome movie.

El Cid:
Been a loooooong time since I’ve seen this, but I remember it being pretty awesome even for back then.  One scene I remember had a guy using his saddle as a weapon – heh.  Oughta be able to do that in Warband. =P

The 13th Warrior:
Hands down one of my all-time favs.  Incredible movie with a true story background (if Ahmad ibn Fadlan’s documents are factual).  But even if they’re fictional, what’s not to love about a good Norse adventure story?

Sir Walter Scott’s Ivanhoe:
Kinda like El Cid, been a long time since I’ve watched it, but again – remember it being epic.  There was this one 2h-er duel with great swords where they would chop down small trees sometimes due to a swing and a miss.

Robin and Marian:
Probably the best or maybe most realistic Robin Hood movie I’ve seen yet featuring Sean Connery as Robin Hood.  If I remember right though, it was a story of Robin when he was a little older. Not the usual redone 1,000 times story.

Robin Hood:
1991 w/Patrick Bergin, NOT the Kevin Costner bullshit.  This one follows close behind the above choice in realism, but of course is the story of an earlier Robin Hood.

Beowulf & Grendel:
2005, starring Gerard Butler.  Not the CGI one with Angelina Jolie.  This one takes all the fantasy out of the legend and makes it more realistic.  Best version of the story I’ve seen yet.

Troy:
For all the obvious reasons (Brad Pitt not being one of them, however).  Epic duels, glorious massive army combat, amazing siege action, the list goes on.

Mongol:
Probably the best medieval cavalry movie ever made.  I do kinda wish they’d shown more of the Mongol horde tactics I’ve read about over the years, but some of those might not have come till later as the Horde swept across the known world.

Gladiator:
Think my favorite scene was the awesome battle with the barbarians at the beginning of the movie.  The rest was still great though.  And of course gladiator fight scenes never get old.

The Kingdom of Heaven:
Really great movie, I just wish they would’ve actually shown the battle of the Horns of Hattin where about 20,000 knights stood for 3 days against 60,000 Saracens.  They made two balls-out charges that almost took out Saladin himself, but were barely repelled back to the hill each time.  Finally the desert heat, exhaustion, thirst, smoke inhalation & just being purely outnumbered killed them all off almost to the last man.  Would probably make for a badass movie by itself.

Excalibur:
Almost forgot about this one!  But this was one of the first badass medieval movies I ever saw.  Think I came a little when I first saw it.  Need to watch this bad boy again.

Ben Hur:
Had to have been the most epic movie of its day.  But even up to now I don’t think any movie (that I know of anyway) has taken on chariot races & open sea trireme battles of that magnitude.

Arn, the Knight Templar:
A lot of awesome things about this movie, one being that it was not a corny Hollywood production.  Really great battle scenes.  One is the Battle of Montgisard, and the other they actually DO show, is… the Horns of Hattin.  Pretty good nun spanking scene thrown in there to boot. =P

Flesh & Blood:
Rutger Hauer.  Need I say more?  Mr. Ladyhawke himself.  Awesome siege, awesome nutidity, mixed together for a winner.

Spartacus:
The old version with Kirk Douglas.  Haven’t seen the newer one yet.

And last but definitely not least…

Monty Python & the Holy Grail! =)

Movies they need to make:  The Great Siege of Malta, The Battle of Marathon, The Straits of Artemisium, more movies about Ghengis Khan, and lots lots more.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Xant on October 08, 2011, 09:00:55 pm
What's wrong with Brad Pitt in Troy? I think his portrayal of Achilles is what makes the movie good. As for Battle of Hattins, it was actually 20,000 knights vs 30,000 muslims :P
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Mtemtko on October 08, 2011, 10:11:55 pm
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,137457.0.html

Found some quite nice movies there
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Kalam on October 10, 2011, 12:29:07 pm
Darkon (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0462246/).  :twisted:
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Overdriven on October 10, 2011, 04:58:01 pm
What's wrong with Brad Pitt in Troy? I think his portrayal of Achilles is what makes the movie good.

I think he actually portrayed him quite well. Mind you, Brad Pitts ability for rousing speeches before battle leaves something to be desired.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: LordBerenger on October 12, 2011, 02:16:33 pm
Brad Pitt is soooo dreamy......................... 8-)
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Joker86 on October 12, 2011, 05:57:00 pm
It's just a blond, beardless beau playing one of the toughest fighters in history.

I would love someone with a... rougher... face...
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Argoth on October 14, 2011, 12:12:06 pm
Gettysburg.

Alatriste.

Kingdom of Heaven.

Rome. (Ray Stevenson is awesome)

Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Lars on October 14, 2011, 01:35:27 pm
It's just a blond, beardless beau playing one of the toughest fighters in history.


History?
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Joker86 on October 14, 2011, 02:13:55 pm
Well, it was more meant like "One of the greatest warrior characters in human cultural history". Something like that. You know. Next to John Rambo, Chuck Norris and John McClane.

Edit: Although I bet there WAS a badass warrior called Achilles at that time (around), although his skin probably was NOT impenetrable.  :wink:
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Adamar on October 15, 2011, 05:18:23 am
Jean of arc... For brutal combat and dark environment.

Kingdom of heaven... For the awsome.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Casimir on October 18, 2011, 12:16:28 am
Ironclad:
I think the director and/or producer had to have played Warband – lol.  I mean come on, epic gatehouse defense, archers firing down on soldiers moving the siege tower, 1h hammer spam, polearm moves, 2h spam, shield walls, tin can cav, OP throwing… the whole nine. =P

Also the Templar is a badass ;)
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Xant on October 18, 2011, 07:43:21 am
I think he actually portrayed him quite well. Mind you, Brad Pitts ability for rousing speeches before battle leaves something to be desired.

I don't know man, I was plenty aroused.  :oops:
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Boerenlater on October 20, 2011, 04:06:57 am
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0265087/
this masterpiece
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: HarunYahya on October 21, 2011, 07:30:29 am
Ahem.
Tarkan Viking Kanı (1971) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6R4Pj3jEV4)
That's the best and most epic movie ever made.
And this is GTA style from Tarkan !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfM_r3yq7r8&feature=related
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Christo on October 21, 2011, 12:56:21 pm
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113538/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113538/)

Let the flamewars commence.  :lol:
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: bredeus on October 22, 2011, 12:15:22 am
Also the Templar is a badass ;)
sure they were playing warband. they have even implemented the rule 120 ppl max in battle. ;)
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Draggon on October 22, 2011, 02:43:15 am
sure they were playing warband. they have even implemented the rule 120 ppl max in battle. ;)

Lol, and banner balance wasn't working very well either.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Thucydides on October 22, 2011, 09:30:18 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RI0Y3jI4S0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RI0Y3jI4S0)
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: VVarlord on October 22, 2011, 10:01:45 pm
You might like these titles as well:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058777/

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080180/

They're not perfect (especially the second one) but for a Zulu fan it's all there is, although I'm sure you already know about 'em. :wink:

Also - i could go on with numerous titles now and many people will throw in anything they can remember of but it's all kinda pointless since its a matter of personal taste for movies.  :wink:

Welsh and proud!
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Joker86 on October 24, 2011, 12:30:57 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RI0Y3jI4S0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RI0Y3jI4S0)

The movie was not bad, but I wouldn't call it a historic one. Yes, it plays in the past, and there are some nice gore scenes, too, but still it's more some kind of "philosophic artist movie" than a typical historic movie. Life and events at that time play a too little role.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Boerenlater on October 24, 2011, 04:51:29 pm
The movie was not bad, but I wouldn't call it a historic one. Yes, it plays in the past, and there are some nice gore scenes, too, but still it's more some kind of "philosophic artist movie" than a typical historic movie. Life and events at that time play a too little role.
Basicly that movie was a let down. Way too slow pacing and it didn't offer what it promised; a crusade and fighting in the holy land.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Franke on October 30, 2011, 03:08:07 am
The movie "Waterloo" mentioned above is one of my all-time favourites, although not exactly what the original thread aimed at (Ancient/Medieval).

I was quite disappointed from "Troy", I have to admit (not only because of Brad Pitt). If you watch the movie without knowing the "historical" background, you get the impression that the siege only took ten days instead of ten years...  :?

"Rome" was quite cool IMHO, althoug lacking large-scale battle scenes.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Xant on October 30, 2011, 08:36:08 am
I was quite disappointed from "Troy", I have to admit (not only because of Brad Pitt). If you watch the movie without knowing the "historical" background, you get the impression that the siege only took ten days instead of ten years...  :?

You're aware that the siege of Troy was fictional anyways?  :D It's Greek mythology....

The movie isn't completely faithful to the mythology, true.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Siiem on October 30, 2011, 10:40:59 am
You're aware that the siege of Troy was fictional anyways?  :D It's Greek mythology....

The movie isn't completely faithful to the mythology, true.

So, so Hercules is not real either?
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Franke on October 30, 2011, 11:37:38 pm
You're aware that the siege of Troy was fictional anyways?  :D It's Greek mythology....

The movie isn't completely faithful to the mythology, true.

I'm absolutely aware of that, thats why I wrote "historical"; kinda lacked the correct expression. However, I had preferred if they had tried harder to stick with the Ilias... The city walls do not look too impressive either.... I remeber one of those old movies from the 60s or so where the walls were truely huge.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Tyrell on November 02, 2011, 05:42:59 pm
So, so Hercules is not real either?
Next you'll tell me Santa and the Easter Bunny aren't real....
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Tears of Destiny on November 03, 2011, 01:08:03 am
I met a man named Santa once.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Overdriven on November 03, 2011, 01:19:13 am
Watching Jodha Akbar. It's a bollywood movie about one of the Mughal emperors. Has some good battle scenes in it with elephants ect. Here's the battle of Panipat:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BloCPGWQvv8

No subs or anything sorry! So you'll have to fast forward to the fighting  :P Starts at 2mins or so. You get some spamitar action in there as well  :wink:

Plus any movie that has Aishwarya Rai in is perfectly watchable for me :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qhkBTGE_Wo (main girl in that).
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Draggon on November 03, 2011, 02:12:07 pm
Plus any movie that has Aishwarya Rai in is perfectly watchable for me :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qhkBTGE_Wo (main girl in that).

I'll second that shit.  I had forgotten to put The Last Legion on my list.  Aishwarya Rai's in that one as a badass bodyguard/assassin.  Pretty damn good fight scenes as well.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0462396 (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0462396)
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: B3RS3RK on November 03, 2011, 11:16:13 pm
You're aware that the siege of Troy was fictional anyways?  :D It's Greek mythology....

The movie isn't completely faithful to the mythology, true.

What the fuck?

You KNOW that the siege of Troy happened right?I mean, I doubt that they made a Giant Horse from wood and tricked the Tojans, but they definately besieged Troy.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Xant on November 04, 2011, 12:30:57 am
What the fuck?

You KNOW that the siege of Troy happened right?I mean, I doubt that they made a Giant Horse from wood and tricked the Tojans, but they definately besieged Troy.

Ahahaha. Based on what?

"The ancient Greeks thought that the Trojan War was a historical event that had taken place in the 13th or 12th century BC, and believed that Troy was located in modern-day Turkey near the Dardanelles. By modern times, both the war and the city were widely believed to be non-historical. In 1870, however, the German archaeologist Heinrich Schliemann excavated a local site that he had identified as Troy; this claim is now accepted by most scholars.[1][2] Whether there is any historical reality behind the Trojan War is an open question. Many scholars believe that there is a historical core to the tale, though this may simply mean that the Homeric stories are a fusion of various tales of sieges and expeditions by Mycenaean Greeks during the Bronze Age. Those who believe that the stories of the Trojan War are derived from a specific historical conflict usually date it to the 12th or 11th centuries BC, often preferring the dates given by Eratosthenes, 1194–1184 BC, which roughly corresponds with archaeological evidence of a catastrophic burning of Troy VIIa.[3]"

The ancient Greeks thought it happened 1200 BC or so  :D It's called Greek MYTHOLOGY for a reason. Or are you going to claim that Hades, Zeus and Hercules are real too?
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: bredeus on November 04, 2011, 10:51:50 am
basicaly the german trader with a soul of an archeologist was right. He found the spot. There was more Troys (cities) in the same location in time. Probably burned/ rebuilded many times. Schliemann  was writing about Troy 7 if I remeber it right.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Draggon on November 04, 2011, 06:58:40 pm
This is a huge topic and an interesting one that there is alot of conflicting information on. 
No way to put everything into one post without it being a massive wall of text, but there is another historical view out there that hasn't caught much attention.  Mainly because mainstream historians have already bought and sold the idea that Troy was in Turkey (the site is now called Troia, in a city renamed Truva by the Turkish government) and this has been taught over the last many years as 'truth'.

However, there has been more 'evidence' that Troy may have very well been in Cornwall.  And the "Achaeans" very possibly may have not been Greeks, but Celts that inhabited that part of Greece during that era.  And hence part of the reason that it is known as Greek Mythology, since Greeks derived most of their mythology directly handed down from the Celts.

It's wild, I know, but there are some pretty strong indicators that point to this.
- Early Greeks of that time weren't strong enough or unified enough to field a massive army or fleet of that size.
- The terrain around Cornwall matches the accounts that speak of a lush, wet climate (rather than the arid, dry climate of Turkey)
- The number of rivers that ran thru and around Troy, match the number of rivers spoken about in the stories.
- The fact that the Celts needed tin for their bronze, which Cornwall was overly abundant in.
- Massive amounts of Celtic influence all around Cornwall that still exists today proves they were in fact there.
- Accounts of a "Brutus of Troy," a descendant of the Trojan hero "Æneas" and according to the Historia Regum Britanniae say he was the legendary founder and first king of Britain.
- In a borrow found at Trelowarren (which is in Cornwall), there are ancient monuments made of clay and stone, of Hector and Patroclus.

And there is a lot, lot more that I can’t remember.  Been awhile since I’ve read any of the books on that, but it was definitely interesting stuff.  They go on to talk about the differences between the seas that were crossed, and the accounts of the return home from Troy and how a return voyage from Cornwall matched the geography so much more, etc, etc.  And some interesting archeological findings in various places along the route.

But this is already turning into a “tldr” kinda thing so I’ll shut it down for now.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Overdriven on November 04, 2011, 09:21:20 pm
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I've heard that before. It is very interesting. I believe one of the biggest talking points for it was the fact that Med Island geography doesn't match any accounts of the journey back from Troy. Whilst the islands on the route from Cornwall match the geography perfectly. Of course such accounts are mostly story telling. But you take what sources you can  :) Such a location would certainly make far more sense from the mythological pov.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Joker86 on November 05, 2011, 04:24:38 am
Watching Jodha Akbar. It's a bollywood movie about one of the Mughal emperors. Has some good battle scenes in it with elephants ect. Here's the battle of Panipat:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BloCPGWQvv8

No subs or anything sorry! So you'll have to fast forward to the fighting  :P Starts at 2mins or so. You get some spamitar action in there as well  :wink:

Do I get this right? - First both, team orange and team black, send in their infantry, and once the melee has started both teams send in their masses of elephants, and the elephants only kill the enemy soldiers?

And there is a guy who is using his bow in melee, covered by a few bodyguards who form a ring around him? And this ring is moving rather freely to a melee which is kind of "scattered" all over the place by duelling pairs, so that it rather reminds on a prom with pairs everywhere than on a melee where you try to hold your line and stick to your mates?

I'll second that shit.  I had forgotten to put The Last Legion on my list.  Aishwarya Rai's in that one as a badass bodyguard/assassin.  Pretty damn good fight scenes as well.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0462396 (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0462396)

Sorry, but in my eyes this is one of the worst historic movies ever. Colin Firth playing in any other genre than romantic comedies is a complete miscast, and when I see sexy women killing soldiers I always want to cry from the pain in my head. Next to the fact that I don't like fights where you see some kind of "choreography" which makes the heroes always look like they have the black belt in movie-Karate. And wasn't that the movie with this one guy and his incredibly gay golden mask?

Of course tastes are different, and I don't want to offend you, but if someone recommends a movie for being a good historic one, and it's the same one I always use as a really bad example for historic movies, then I have to say something.

In my eyes hitoric movies should stick close to realism and history to be "good" historic movies. Everything else is just entertainment. Like "King Arthur", which in my eyes is very similar to "The last Legion". Concerning both the setting and the quality. The best part in "The last Legion" were the Goths at the beginning, the best part in "King Arthur" was Stellan Skarsgard as Saxon King. Screw the rest.

Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Skysong on November 05, 2011, 09:59:54 am
There is a lot of lush and wet teritories in Turkey even in western part. People look at summer holiday advertisements and think that Turkey only has that climate. (Or worse they belive Turkey is some desert country because it's muslim.)

I don't say that Troy is real or it is located here or there btw. I wouldn't care if Troy was actualy located in China and Greeks were Siberian.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Xant on November 05, 2011, 10:53:34 am
Some Italian was theorizing that Troy was in Finland :D
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Overdriven on November 05, 2011, 12:48:21 pm
Do I get this right? - First both, team orange and team black, send in their infantry, and once the melee has started both teams send in their masses of elephants, and the elephants only kill the enemy soldiers?

And there is a guy who is using his bow in melee, covered by a few bodyguards who form a ring around him? And this ring is moving rather freely to a melee which is kind of "scattered" all over the place by duelling pairs, so that it rather reminds on a prom with pairs everywhere than on a melee where you try to hold your line and stick to your mates?

Well...here's wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Panipat_(1526)

You forget that this is bollywood...and they don't often do historical films like that  :P
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Draggon on November 05, 2011, 03:11:51 pm
There is a lot of lush and wet teritories in Turkey even in western part. People look at summer holiday advertisements and think that Turkey only has that climate. (Or worse they belive Turkey is some desert country because it's muslim.)

Good point Sky, I should've been more specific.  "The area where they say Troy is located in Turkey" would have been better.  Obviously most, if not all countries, do not span the same exact type of terrain across its entirety (unless of course it's a very small country - lol)

In my eyes hitoric movies should stick close to realism and history to be "good" historic movies. Everything else is just entertainment. Like "King Arthur", which in my eyes is very similar to "The last Legion". Concerning both the setting and the quality. The best part in "The last Legion" were the Goths at the beginning, the best part in "King Arthur" was Stellan Skarsgard as Saxon King. Screw the rest.

You’re totally right on that.   You’ll notice I didn’t put King Arthur on the list – mainly because it’s more of a legend than history, although there are ‘some’ things that point to an existence of a ‘King Arthur’ of some kind.  It’s still not really proven.
But yeah man, that’s also probably why forgot to even think of The Last Legion initially, because it wasn’t historic at all – lol.  It was a great “medieval” movie, but not a “medieval historical” movie.

But then again, all of this is kind of a mute point since NONE of the movies I’ve seen yet have been all that  historically accurate.  Except for maybe the movie Glory which had probably the least number of inaccuracies out of anything to date, but that’s not medieval.

However, films like Last Legion  and King Arthur aren’t even close.  So yeah, I see your point.  Of course, we could probably take Gladiator off the list too since Maximus was a totally fictional character built from a combination of four different historical figures (Cincinnatus, Narcissus, Marcus Nonius Macrinus & Spartacus).
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Franke on November 05, 2011, 08:42:11 pm
I for my part do not regard movies like "King Arthur" or "The last Legion" as historical movies, rather as fiction or some kind of fantasy.

Historical movies in my eyes do not necessarily have to stick 100% to what happened but at least to what could have happened. That byzanion amazon is the best example. What happened to the good old historical movies in which almost no women appeared?

 On the other hand, a gladiator killing the Roman emperor in combat (as in "Gladiator") might sound awkward, but if you check history, you will see that emperor Commodus indeed was assasinated by some kind of athlete or whatever the guy was. Furthermore, the battle scene from the beginning (Vindobona- vs the Germanic tribes) is one of the best ancient battle scene I've seen in newer movies so far... That's why I would still regard "Gladiator" as historical movie, the both movies mentioned above not.

P.S. However I like the fact that both movies approach the roots of the legendary King Arthur from a different direction....


P.P.S: Different topic: I always thought the battle of Panipat was fought in 1757- the same year as Leuthen. Seems I got my facts wrong  :(
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Overdriven on November 06, 2011, 03:56:16 am
If they make King Arthur into a movie again, it HAS to be based on the Bernard Cornwall books. Those bought that legend alive for me. It really turns the legend into something realistic and makes it believable. Probably one of my favourite book series of all time.

That King Arthur movie was truly awful however. Clive Owen is possibly one of the worst/most wooden actors on the face of this planet.

However, films like Last Legion  and King Arthur aren’t even close.  So yeah, I see your point.  Of course, we could probably take Gladiator off the list too since Maximus was a totally fictional character built from a combination of four different historical figures (Cincinnatus, Narcissus, Marcus Nonius Macrinus & Spartacus).[/font][/size][/color]

In all fairness, King Arthur didn't actually technically exist. Certainly not as a King. He cropped up in some monks history of British monarchs sometime around Edward I reign. The story then generated much popular support and many monasteries claimed to have certain relations to the legend. Including his sarcophagus at Glastonbury. It's hard to be historically accurate when there is no real history and it was all made up :)

In fact, it was so widely believed that Edward I used the title of King Arthur as the 'King of all Britain' to form the basis for his attempts to take over Scotland by suggesting English Kings were from King Arthurs lineage.

P.P.S: Different topic: I always thought the battle of Panipat was fought in 1757- the same year as Leuthen. Seems I got my facts wrong  :(

There were two battles of Panipat (1526 and 1761 according to wiki)  :)
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Thucydides on November 07, 2011, 12:42:16 am
However, there has been more 'evidence' that Troy may have very well been in Cornwall.  And the "Achaeans" very possibly may have not been Greeks, but Celts that inhabited that part of Greece during that era.  And hence part of the reason that it is known as Greek Mythology, since Greeks derived most of their mythology directly handed down from the Celts.

It's wild, I know, but there are some pretty strong indicators that point to this.
- Early Greeks of that time weren't strong enough or unified enough to field a massive army or fleet of that size.
- The terrain around Cornwall matches the accounts that speak of a lush, wet climate (rather than the arid, dry climate of Turkey)
- The number of rivers that ran thru and around Troy, match the number of rivers spoken about in the stories.
- The fact that the Celts needed tin for their bronze, which Cornwall was overly abundant in.
- Massive amounts of Celtic influence all around Cornwall that still exists today proves they were in fact there.
- Accounts of a "Brutus of Troy," a descendant of the Trojan hero "Æneas" and according to the Historia Regum Britanniae say he was the legendary founder and first king of Britain.
- In a borrow found at Trelowarren (which is in Cornwall), there are ancient monuments made of clay and stone, of Hector and Patroclus.

And there is a lot, lot more that I can’t remember.  Been awhile since I’ve read any of the books on that, but it was definitely interesting stuff.  They go on to talk about the differences between the seas that were crossed, and the accounts of the return home from Troy and how a return voyage from Cornwall matched the geography so much more, etc, etc.  And some interesting archeological findings in various places along the route.

But this is already turning into a “tldr” kinda thing so I’ll shut it down for now.


The fuck? The Keltoi were not even close to Greece during the 11th century BC. The Kelts reached northern Greece  during the Hellenistic age where they were stopped by Antigonus II Gonatas of Macedon, and Antiochus II Soter of the Seleucid Empire. Never has there been archeological evidence of a “keltic” culture existing in Greece during the Mycenaean era. Furthermore, there is stronger evidence that the Hellens derived their gods from the Phoenicians, rather than the kelts.

now to analyze your points.
- Early Greeks of that time weren't strong enough or unified enough to field a massive army or fleet of that size.
- The terrain around Cornwall matches the accounts that speak of a lush, wet climate (rather than the arid, dry climate of Turkey)
- The number of rivers that ran thru and around Troy, match the number of rivers spoken about in the stories.
- The fact that the Celts needed tin for their bronze, which Cornwall was overly abundant in.
- Massive amounts of Celtic influence all around Cornwall that still exists today proves they were in fact there.
- Accounts of a "Brutus of Troy," a descendant of the Trojan hero "Æneas" and according to the Historia Regum Britanniae say he was the legendary founder and first king of Britain.
- In a borrow found at Trelowarren (which is in Cornwall), there are ancient monuments made of clay and stone, of Hector and Patroclus.
1.   Early greeks were a collection of city states led by the Basileus, in the story Agamemnon united most of the cities by war, or shrewed diplomatic marriages. Suggesting that the unification of Greece occurred during the lifetime of Agamemnon. Furthermore, it has been shown in archaeology that the nearby empire of the Hittites recognized the Mycenaeans as “equals” In the same league as Egypt and Mesopotamia during this time. Thus the idea that the Mycenaeans weren’t “strong enough” or unified is a bit silly.
2.   The climate 3000 years ago was dramatically different than it is now. Sea Levels were much lower and the climate was cooler during this time. If we were to base the climate  description on the contemporary agreed timeline of 900-800 BCE, we’d see that the world was experiencing a cooling cycle, that picked up to a warming cycle beginning in 700 BCE:
“From 3000 to 2000 BC a cooling trend occurred. This cooling caused large drops in sea level and the emergence of many islands (Bahamas) and coastal areas that are still above sea level today. A short warming trend took place from 2000 to 1500 BC, followed once again by colder conditions. Colder temperatures from 1500 - 750 BC caused renewed ice growth in continental glaciers and alpine glaciers, and a sea level drop of between 2 to 3 meters below present day levels.”
this would account for the difference in climate in turkey, as well as the fact that people have been cultivating turkey for thousands of years, soil erosion and the destruction of forests tend to cause a change in climate. (source: http://www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/7x.html)
3.   Rivers change when water levels change+ gradual unification of tributaries
4.   The major source of Tin during this time was from the Taurus Mountains in Turkey. Troy would be a major source of tin as they would be a port where tin is sold to the rest of the Aegean. Also, Homer mentions that some of the Achaeans used “Cypriot Bronze armor”, which Cypriot was known for during this time, most likely received tin from the traders in the mainland.
(Until 1984 we did not know the source of tin for the ancient bronze civilizations of the Near East. Now more than 40 ancient sites of tin mining have been discovered in the Taurus mountains of southern Turkey, only 40 km from the Cilician Gates, the main pass through the Taurus. The area has a great variety of metal ores, including placer deposits of gold and silver. But lead (as galena) is also present, and lead artefacts are known from Çatal Höyük. Cast lead figurines had become common by the late third and early second millenia, and silver was important from the late fourth millennium. Source: http://mygeologypage.ucdavis.edu/cowen/~gel115/115ch4.html)
5.   Æneas gives birth to brutus who is mentioned in the middle ages and not classical texts? Seems to me that this is an indigenous attempt to connect the history of Britain to the history of rome, which the romans did to the Greeks with the Aeneid.
6.   Britain was occupied by the romans. Romans loved Troy. Romans claimed descendance from Troy. Would it not make sense to have statues of Trojan heros in a roman colony?
T.L D.R. I smell some seriously sloppy interpretation going on here
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Overdriven on November 07, 2011, 02:23:19 am
(click to show/hide)

Rather than discount his points largely off your own interpretation, you should go read some books about this theory. It's actually very interesting and does have some weight behind it. Draggon gave a quick summary of some of the issues and theory behind it, but naturally, it is a forum post and of course you can pick holes every way you look at it.

Here's a lecture based on it given by one of the main theorists behind this:
http://phdamste.tripod.com/trojan.html

This one is heavily based on relating it to Homer but there are other books/works that look into it in a far more scientific ect fashion.

The problem is many 'serious' classicist simply dismiss this theory because it goes against everything they have ever believed. As with much historical argument, when the standard views are argued against, the long time 'scholars' in the field simply dismiss it out of hand, despite the fact that in many cases the new view has become the accepted in later generations. Simple fact is though, there's very little evidence that Troy existed in Turkey either. So this is as likely a possibility in my eyes as that.

In all honesty though, I consider Troy to be like the King Arthur legend (opinions of which I expressed a few posts above). It's essentially the same thing. 'Finding' Troy in Turkey is the equivalent to me driving down to Tintagel in Cornwall (the castle long associated with Arthurian legend) and claiming I found Camelot.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Thucydides on November 07, 2011, 03:16:43 am
Rather than discount his points largely off your own interpretation, you should go read some books about this theory. It's actually very interesting and does have some weight behind it. Draggon gave a quick summary of some of the issues and theory behind it, but naturally, it is a forum post and of course you can pick holes every way you look at it.

Here's a lecture based on it given by one of the main theorists behind this:
http://phdamste.tripod.com/trojan.html

This one is heavily based on relating it to Homer but there are other books/works that look into it in a far more scientific ect fashion.

The problem is many 'serious' classicist simply dismiss this theory because it goes against everything they have ever believed. As with much historical argument, when the standard views are argued against, the long time 'scholars' in the field simply dismiss it out of hand, despite the fact that in many cases the new view has become the accepted in later generations. Simple fact is though, there's very little evidence that Troy existed in Turkey either. So this is as likely a possibility in my eyes as that.

In all honesty though, I consider Troy to be like the King Arthur legend (opinions of which I expressed a few posts above). It's essentially the same thing. 'Finding' Troy in Turkey is the equivalent to me driving down to Tintagel in Cornwall (the castle long associated with Arthurian legend) and claiming I found Camelot.

Read some books? i know enough about the ancient world to see that there is a lot more evidence to suggest that troy was somewhere in between europe and asia, not somewhere south of britain.

first of all, the Ancient greeks always overestimate/embellish statistics. We see this in herodotus, Plutarch, etc etc. So it is more likely that the Trojan war had, at most, 20k participants. Secondly, recent excavations have unveiled a new layer of debris that corresponds to a large city like that described by homer. So yeah, there goes a large reason for disbelief of the theory.

Third, The similarities of the Keltic religion to the Greeks is probably because they share the same genetic origin and once shared the same language. The kelts did share the same "warrior culture" but that warrior culture was ubiquitous throughout the hunting/gathering societies of the world. I see no reason to suggests that the greeks came from the kelts,.

finally, theres still the problem of relying on a  Geneaology that was invented in the 11th century AD to prove something that occurred in the 9th century bc. Thats just bad form
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Overdriven on November 07, 2011, 03:24:33 pm
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Well regardless I simply think it is an interesting theory. And my point still stands, until they find the conclusive proof that Troy did exist in Europe/Asia then it can be located any where that a theory can be made to support it. As of now Troy is still pretty much myth. Certainly the fall of Troy is.

And uncovering a settlement does not count as proof. Archaeologists have a horrific tendency to uncover something and say they found something related to some myth. Partly because they only really get one chance in their career's to uncover something like that. So my point about Tintagel and Camelot still stands. Until they find proof that that settlement is indeed Troy (of which there is scarce little in the settlement claimed to be homeric Troy), then they can claim whatever the hell they like. It doesn't make it true.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Thucydides on November 08, 2011, 12:18:49 am
Well regardless I simply think it is an interesting theory. And my point still stands, until they find the conclusive proof that Troy did exist in Europe/Asia then it can be located any where that a theory can be made to support it. As of now Troy is still pretty much myth. Certainly the fall of Troy is.

And uncovering a settlement does not count as proof. Archaeologists have a horrific tendency to uncover something and say they found something related to some myth. Partly because they only really get one chance in their career's to uncover something like that. So my point about Tintagel and Camelot still stands. Until they find proof that that settlement is indeed Troy (of which there is scarce little in the settlement claimed to be homeric Troy), then they can claim whatever the hell they like. It doesn't make it true.

We are not going to find a giant neon sign that says "WELCOME TO TROY, POP. 100 000". The fact that Archeologists found a settlement that is Large enough to fit the description of homer, in the location that has always been speculated to be troy, suggests that troy was there. Compared to Cornwall,  which has no archeological evidence of a city even approaching that size until the roman period,  it is far more likely that the convention theory is correct.
The problem with this theory is the dearth of Keltic mythology avaliable to us. If we had copies of the myths and legends the gauls/other kelts shared, we would be able to draw comparisons to the ancient greek myths. Unfortunately rromans and greeks detested the Kelts... SO this comparison can never be made.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Overdriven on November 08, 2011, 02:22:21 am
We are not going to find a giant neon sign that says "WELCOME TO TROY, POP. 100 000". The fact that Archeologists found a settlement that is Large enough to fit the description of homer, in the location that has always been speculated to be troy, suggests that troy was there. Compared to Cornwall,  which has no archeological evidence of a city even approaching that size until the roman period,  it is far more likely that the convention theory is correct.
The problem with this theory is the dearth of Keltic mythology avaliable to us. If we had copies of the myths and legends the gauls/other kelts shared, we would be able to draw comparisons to the ancient greek myths. Unfortunately rromans and greeks detested the Kelts... SO this comparison can never be made.

Well one of the large problems is the fact there are no real written records found in the site they have uncovered. Such records could potentially point to it being Troy as written correspondence of a sort were the norm then. Unfortunately they have uncovered very little evidence of this sort and so much of it is down to guess work. But the fact that there are still large portions to be excavated does leave the potential for finding something more conclusive.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Draggon on November 08, 2011, 04:14:57 pm
Holy crap, you guys wrote a damn book while I was gone. =P
Good stuff all around.  Love this topic.

Anywho, lots to chime in about but I'll just throw this tidbit in for now.  I'm gonna look for some links to it, but if I'm not mistaken there were quite a large number of tablets recovered from the site in Turkey, but none of them mention a large battle that would fit the description of "Troy", nor are any of the commanders, leaders, "heros" names mentioned anywhere in them.  They do however mention the battle of Kadesh I believe it was?

I'll see what I can find on that.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Thucydides on November 09, 2011, 12:43:05 am
Holy crap, you guys wrote a damn book while I was gone. =P
Good stuff all around.  Love this topic.

Anywho, lots to chime in about but I'll just throw this tidbit in for now.  I'm gonna look for some links to it, but if I'm not mistaken there were quite a large number of tablets recovered from the site in Turkey, but none of them mention a large battle that would fit the description of "Troy", nor are any of the commanders, leaders, "heros" names mentioned anywhere in them.  They do however mention the battle of Kadesh I believe it was?

I'll see what I can find on that.


Kadesh? Wouldn't this suggest that the area was Hittite dominated?  Also, if a city was razed to the ground just before the advent of a dark age, i doubt written records would exist of the sacking. We see this in other mycenaean palace complexes where the sack preserved clay tablets that showed life just before the destruction
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Glaurung on November 10, 2011, 08:11:06 pm
Flesh and Blood (also named Flesh+Blood) is a pretty good late medieval movie.  It's fucking grim, realistic, brutal, and features a naked girl in most scene. Rutger Hauer is in it as a flamberge wielding mercenary that doesn't give a shit. It is directed by the glorious Paul Verhoeven, who is a fucking badass.

One of my favorite movie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VOy1JZBH5c



Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: djavo on November 13, 2011, 02:37:24 am
Absadlutly besast mesadieval movdie aeva madeada!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091763/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091763/)
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Noctivagant on November 13, 2011, 05:29:20 am
7 Samurai http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0047478/
Mongol (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5K84ikK6Hg#t=2m53s) Especially charge of that 40 horsemen against thousand is epic. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0416044/


I hate Kingdom of Heaven
Reason 1 : Orlando Bloom
Reason 2 : A blacksmith? seriously?

I hate 300 too
Only reason : Its unfortunate to see Battle of Thermopylae got ridiculed like that.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Christo on November 13, 2011, 05:38:30 am
300 is not simply about the historical Battle..

It's based.. on a GRAPHIC NOVEL.

That's why we see mythical creatures, WTF unarmored Spartans and a Xerxes that made me lol the first time I saw it.

Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Thucydides on November 13, 2011, 06:37:11 am
Immortals


































(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Franke on November 13, 2011, 07:55:09 pm
I think you cannot call 300 a historical movie, although based on the historical battle. Xerxes' army is a heavily armed freak-show. It's indeed only a comic book as movie...
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: ordunin on November 14, 2011, 04:29:13 am
FUCK YOU ALL.
No one has mentioned the original 300 yet. That was a good movie. The new 300 however, well, it sucked balls.

Also I'm going to have to vote Hercules verses the Moon men as the best titled "historical" movie.

My favorite movie that hasn't already been mentioned is Red cliff.
 
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Christo on November 14, 2011, 10:33:22 am
FUCK YOU ALL.
No one has mentioned the original 300 yet. That was a good movie. The new 300 however, well, it sucked balls.

Imdb page please.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Tristan on November 14, 2011, 03:07:20 pm
I liked the new 300 movie. Not as a historical movie, but as great visual entertainment.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Franke on November 14, 2011, 07:05:34 pm
I liked the new 300 movie. Not as a historical movie, but as great visual entertainment.

+1
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Ujin on November 21, 2011, 12:49:19 am
Flesh and Blood (also named Flesh+Blood) is a pretty good late medieval movie.  It's fucking grim, realistic, brutal, and features a naked girl in most scene. Rutger Hauer is in it as a flamberge wielding mercenary that doesn't give a shit. It is directed by the glorious Paul Verhoeven, who is a fucking badass.

One of my favorite movie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VOy1JZBH5c
oh yeah i have this one, it's  always fun to watch =). Also while being completely fictional, it somehow manages to show the medieval life in a more or less realistic way.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Leesin on November 21, 2011, 04:08:30 pm
Anyone who takes '300' seriously and complains about it being historically incorrect is an idiot, it's based on a comic book which is fictional and fantasy, not everything has to be based on reality, 300 is a good movie and it's entertaining, it's not meant to be historically accurate and educational.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Thucydides on November 21, 2011, 04:15:21 pm
they could have done the phalanx better though
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Joker86 on November 21, 2011, 06:40:47 pm
Anyone who takes '300' seriously and complains about it being historically incorrect is an idiot, it's based on a comic book which is fictional and fantasy, not everything has to be based on reality, 300 is a good movie and it's entertaining, it's not meant to be historically accurate and educational.

You are right, of course.

I think the OP should edit his first post to create some kind of list, based on the recommendations of this community.

What I would do is to divide the list into sections like "Historically very accurate movies (The Name of the Rose)", "Entertaining with good historical accuracy (Kingdom of Heaven)", "Entertaining with low historical accuracy (King Arthur)" and "Fantasy/Fictional historic movies (300/The last Legion)".

So everyone knows what kind of film it is, because simple attributes like "good" and "bad" don't apply to everyone, because everyone judges things differently. Links to imdb.com would help, too.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Franke on November 21, 2011, 07:56:13 pm
You are right, of course.

I think the OP should edit his first post to create some kind of list, based on the recommendations of this community.

What I would do is to divide the list into sections like "Historically very accurate movies (The Name of the Rose)", "Entertaining with good historical accuracy (Kingdom of Heaven)", "Entertaining with low historical accuracy (King Arthur)" and "Fantasy/Fictional historic movies (300/The last Legion)".

So everyone knows what kind of film it is, because simple attributes like "good" and "bad" don't apply to everyone, because everyone judges things differently. Links to imdb.com would help, too.

If differing between sections, I would only list "Historically accurate", Entertaining with historical accuracy" and "Low or no historical accuracy". I, for my part, can see no realy difference regarding historical accuracy between "King Arthur" and "Last Legion"...
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Keshian on November 21, 2011, 08:14:48 pm
Man, these forums are inactive.  latest post for this and 6 threads above me.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Draggon on November 21, 2011, 10:08:43 pm
Watched "Red Cliff" on Netflix a couple nights ago.  Godam that's a great movie.  "Three Kingdoms" was also pretty good, but not as epic as "Red Cliff".  100% badass.
They show alot of battlefield strategy, counter-tactics and trickery, etc.  The combat action is also done very well.  At least they weren't flying thru the air - lol.

As for the historical accuracy I really have no clue.  My Chinese military history knowledge sucks balls.

Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: KaleLord on November 21, 2011, 11:12:59 pm
Watched "Red Cliff" on Netflix a couple nights ago.  Godam that's a great movie.  "Three Kingdoms" was also pretty good, but not as epic as "Red Cliff".  100% badass.
They show alot of battlefield strategy, counter-tactics and trickery, etc.  The combat action is also done very well.  At least they weren't flying thru the air - lol.

As for the historical accuracy I really have no clue.  My Chinese military history knowledge sucks balls.


Well it's a epic movie but not that realistic seeing a guy fly 30 feet away from a spear swing.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Skysong on November 29, 2011, 12:52:19 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V7zbWNznbs&feature=related  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Shpritza on December 01, 2011, 04:25:34 pm
IRONCLAD
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Cicero on December 07, 2011, 03:16:30 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8u5ta4lPNukü
pre-trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8raYASyito
offical trailer

I would like hear some comments , movie will come in February 2012.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Draggon on December 07, 2011, 04:48:11 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8u5ta4lPNukü
pre-trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8raYASyito
offical trailer

I would like hear some comments , movie will come in February 2012.
(click to show/hide)


Oooh, looks sweet.  I especially like the bare headbutt against the helmet.  :mrgreen:  Reminds me of when I hit bare-headed ppl with my 2h and they live - heh.

All jokes aside though this does look badass.  Think it's gonna be about the Ottoman Turks conquering Constantinople and the end of the Byzantine Empire.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Cicero on December 07, 2011, 05:15:40 am


Oooh, looks sweet.  I especially like the bare headbutt against the helmet.  :mrgreen:  Reminds me of when I hit bare-headed ppl with my 2h and they live - heh.

All jokes aside though this does look badass.  Think it's gonna be about the Ottoman Turks conquering Constantinople and the end of the Byzantine Empire.

Yes its siege of Constantinople Istanbul =)
Name for movie : Conquest 1453
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Kocik_4th on December 07, 2011, 01:26:48 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8u5ta4lPNukü
pre-trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8raYASyito
offical trailer

Lord Of The Rings Two Towers?
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Christo on December 07, 2011, 02:26:36 pm
Whoa. That "mace in yer face" shot looks great.

I can already see how biased they'll make this, though.
(Safavid Style)

Let's hope I'm not right, and it'll be a decent movie. And someone subs it in english.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Franke on December 07, 2011, 03:52:50 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8u5ta4lPNukü
pre-trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8raYASyito
offical trailer


Looking forward to that movie. I read Roger Crowley's book about the siege and fall of Constantinople and initially recognised the scene where the Turks dragged their ships over land.

P.S. I expect it to be very biased, too, but it's hard to find movies about such topics ("national founding stories") which are not...
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Tavuk_Bey on December 08, 2011, 02:20:17 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8u5ta4lPNukü
pre-trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8raYASyito
offical trailer

I would like hear some comments , movie will come in February 2012.
(click to show/hide)

THAT LOOKS NOICE
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: HarunYahya on December 08, 2011, 02:19:03 pm
fall of Constantinople
It's not fall of Constantinople it is Rise of Istanbul instead.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Christo on December 08, 2011, 06:02:02 pm
It's not fall of Constantinople it is Rise of Istanbul instead.
(click to show/hide)

:D Turkish Propaganda ftw.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Cicero on December 08, 2011, 10:21:36 pm
:D Turkish Propaganda ftw.
safavid stayla ftw
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Christo on December 08, 2011, 10:30:04 pm
safavid stayla ftw

Yep, I miss his totally unbiased, historically accurate posts.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Cicero on December 08, 2011, 10:39:20 pm
Yep, I miss his totally unbiased, historically accurate posts.
well its totally about being a nation , i mean crowded nation.Like only Istanbul's population is more than many countries population on EU.So people share same culture and propaganda style if they want to live with other 15 milion people =) Its like this in turkey.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Thucydides on December 09, 2011, 11:29:32 pm
well its totally about being a nation , i mean crowded nation.Like only Istanbul's population is more than many countries population on EU.So people share same culture and propaganda style if they want to live with other 15 milion people =) Its like this in turkey.

and you guys blame america for being american. Roflolhegemony
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Joker86 on December 10, 2011, 03:57:33 am
Actually I didn't even understand what he wanted to say  :?

----

The Last Valley (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOhEDvf1ZmU) (30 years war)
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Thucydides on December 10, 2011, 06:07:24 am
Actually I didn't even understand what he wanted to say  :?

----

The Last Valley (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOhEDvf1ZmU) (30 years war)

i just went ahead and assumed that he was arguing for forced assimilation of the conquered because societal stability>freedom to dissent. I don't know either :D
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Oberyn on December 11, 2011, 07:05:02 pm
i just went ahead and assumed that he was arguing for forced assimilation of the conquered because societal stability>freedom to dissent. I don't know either :D

Particularly ironic coming from a country who has a diaspora of around 4 million people in varying countries, the majority of whom would call you a racist for even daring to suggest something like that.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Oberyn on December 11, 2011, 07:30:05 pm
Anyone who takes '300' seriously and complains about it being historically incorrect is an idiot, it's based on a comic book which is fictional and fantasy, not everything has to be based on reality, 300 is a good movie and it's entertaining, it's not meant to be historically accurate and educational.

Anyone who doesn't take 300 as a disgusting piece of propaganda, which is what it is, is completely ignorant of Frank Miller's views and political inclinations. The guy is a retarded neo-con convinced America is engaged in a death grip war of civilisations. So basically all the morons going around "Why, this is just good old fashioned entertainement, nothing at all wrong with the message this might send" are poorly informed. The very simplistic messages being sent aren't just some random coincidence. The symbolism isn't exactly subtle. 

And like every moronic man-boy who, hilariously enough, was nowhere to be found back when Vietnam was in full swing (probably too busy learning how to meticulously draw muscular men in not enough clothes), this cunt speaks casually of "spilling" blood for the might of the empire. Obviously not his, though. 300 is basically the War on Terror seen through the eyes of someone with less intelligence than understanding of history, which as everyone concedes is already pretty low.

edit:

have a look at this interview with NPR, for example, and then tell me with a straight face this guy wrote "300" with no ulterior motive.

Quote
NPR: […] Frank, what’s the state of the union?

FM: Well, I don’t really find myself worrying about the state of the union as I do the state of the home-front. It seems to me quite obvious that our country and the entire Western World is up against an existential foe that knows exactly what it wants … and we’re behaving like a collapsing empire. Mighty cultures are almost never conquered, they crumble from within. And frankly, I think that a lot of Americans are acting like spoiled brats because of everything that isn’t working out perfectly every time.

NPR: Um, and when you say we don’t know what we want, what’s the cause of that do you think?

FM: Well, I think part of that is how we’re educated. We’re constantly told all cultures are equal, and every belief system is as good as the next. And generally that America was to be known for its flaws rather than its virtues. When you think about what Americans accomplished, building these amazing cities, and all the good its done in the world, it’s kind of disheartening to hear so much hatred of America, not just from abroad, but internally.

NPR: A lot of people would say what America has done abroad has led to the doubts and even the hatred of its own citizens.

FM: Well, okay, then let’s finally talk about the enemy. For some reason, nobody seems to be talking about who we’re up against, and the sixth century barbarism that they actually represent. These people saw people’s heads off. They enslave women, they genitally mutilate their daughters, they do not behave by any cultural norms that are sensible to us. I’m speaking into a microphone that never could have been a product of their culture, and I’m living in a city where three thousand of my neighbors were killed by thieves of airplanes they never could have built.

NPR: As you look at people around you, though, why do you think they’re so, as you would put it, self-absorbed, even whiny?

FM: Well, I’d say it’s for the same reason the Athenians and Romans were. We’ve got it a little good right now. Where I would fault President Bush the most, was that in the wake of 9/11, he motivated our military, but he didn’t call the nation into a state of war. He didn’t explain that this would take a communal effort against a common foe. So we’ve been kind of fighting a war on the side, and sitting off like a bunch of Romans complaining about it. Also, I think that George Bush has an uncanny knack of being someone people hate. I thought Clinton inspired more hatred than any President I had ever seen, but I’ve never seen anything like Bush-hatred. It’s completely mad.

NPR: And as you talk to people in the streets, the people you meet at work, socially, how do you explain this to them?

FM: Mainly in historical terms, mainly saying that the country that fought Okinawa and Iwo Jima is now spilling precious blood, but so little by comparison, it’s almost ridiculous. And the stakes are as high as they were then. Mostly I hear people say, ‘Why did we attack Iraq?’ for instance. Well, we’re taking on an idea. Nobody questions why after Pearl Harbor we attacked chocolate chip cookie Germany. It was because we were taking on a form of global fascism, we’re doing the same thing now.

NPR: Well, they did declare war on us, but…

FM: Well, so did Iraq.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Thucydides on December 11, 2011, 11:32:21 pm
Anyone who doesn't take 300 as a disgusting piece of propaganda, which is what it is, is completely ignorant of Frank Miller's views and political inclinations. The guy is a retarded neo-con convinced America is engaged in a death grip war of civilisations. So basically all the morons going around "Why, this is just good old fashioned entertainement, nothing at all wrong with the message this might send" are poorly informed. The very simplistic messages being sent aren't just some random coincidence. The symbolism isn't exactly subtle. 

And like every moronic man-boy who, hilariously enough, was nowhere to be found back when Vietnam was in full swing (probably too busy learning how to meticulously draw muscular men in not enough clothes), this cunt speaks casually of "spilling" blood for the might of the empire. Obviously not his, though. 300 is basically the War on Terror seen through the eyes of someone with less intelligence than understanding of history, which as everyone concedes is already pretty low.

edit:

have a look at this interview with NPR, for example, and then tell me with a straight face this guy wrote "300" with no ulterior motive.

not that you're wrong, but Frank miller tried to do a war on terror analogy in his new comics, which failed horribly. 300 could have been inspired by that, but 300 as a comic has more similarities with sin city then that peice of crap he produced. The terrible quality of "Holy Terror" makes me think that 300 was not a political propaganda peice, because it is so much better than his "Holy Terror" novel.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Oberyn on December 12, 2011, 12:05:26 am
Quote
Frank Miller's post-9/11 propaganda comic Holy Terror has been through a few changes. In 2006, it was announced as Holy Terror, Batman!, and was due to be a piece of DC comic that pitted Batman, one of the most popular comic book heroes ever, against Al-Qaeda, perpetrators of 9/11 as well as other terrorist attacks all around the world. Miller's logic was that since Captain America and other heroes had punched out einstein and killed chocolate chip cookies during World War II, what we needed was a superhero to punch America's new enemy in the face.

So by his own admission this guy sets out to create propaganda that would've been considered appropriate during a full on Total War 60 years ago. If anything that just makes 300 even more suspect. It's really a masterstroke of marketing, the way it managed to be portrayed as just simple, cool-looking entertainment in all media instead of the loathing-filled spergy revenge fantasy it really is.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: ordunin on December 12, 2011, 07:15:10 am
Imdb page please.
Sorry didn't return to this thread until now >.> but here it is
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0055719/
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Thucydides on December 12, 2011, 01:01:03 pm
So by his own admission this guy sets out to create propaganda that would've been considered appropriate during a full on Total War 60 years ago. If anything that just makes 300 even more suspect. It's really a masterstroke of marketing, the way it managed to be portrayed as just simple, cool-looking entertainment in all media instead of the loathing-filled spergy revenge fantasy it really is.

i think you're inputting beliefs about 300 after knowing his intentions with holy terror. 300 was definitely jingoistic, even xenophobic, but hell that was faithful to the style of Greek politics and customs at that time. i cant really think of anything from 300  that was blatantly a reference to modern politics,because "greek freedom" was really a rallying cry for the greeks during the persian wars.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Oberyn on December 12, 2011, 01:34:54 pm
i think you're inputting beliefs about 300 after knowing his intentions with holy terror. 300 was definitely jingoistic, even xenophobic, but hell that was faithful to the style of Greek politics and customs at that time. i cant really think of anything from 300  that was blatantly a reference to modern politics,because "greek freedom" was really a rallying cry for the greeks during the persian wars.

For the Athenians, who are routinely derided and insulted in the movie, to the point of ommitting, Ooh I don't know, the massive naval battle they were fighting at exactly the same time the Spartans were holding the pass at Thermopylae (along with 1K of militia soldiers from other cities, who despite also being derided and insulted fought and died till the end, they didnt run away to let the brave spartans hold the rearguard) . And that's already pretty ironic, considering the Athenians could own slaves and their democracy was extremely restrictive. The Spartans politically had more in common with Stalinist Russia than anything in the US, and they certainly would never have shouted for freedom during a battle. This is just one of the many reasons Frank Miller fails at history.

Quote
For one thing, “300″ gave all credit to the Spartans, extolling them as role models and peerless examples of manhood. Adorably macho defenders of freedom.

Uh, right.  Freedom. Sorry, but the word bears a heavy burden of irony when shouted by Spartans, who maintained one of the worst slave-states ever, treating the vast majority of their people as cattle, routinely quenching their swords in the bodies of poor, brutalized helots… who are never mentioned, even glimpsed, in the romanticized book or movie. Indeed, the very same queen who Frank Miller portrayed as so-earthy, so-kind, was said to be quite brutal with a whip, in real life.

Miller’s Spartan warriors honestly and openly conveyed the contempt for civilians that was felt across the ages by all feudal warrior castes. An attitude in sharp contrast to American sympathies, which always used to be about Minuteman farmers and shopkeepers – citizen soldiers – the kind who bravely pick up arms to aid their country, adapting and training under fire. Alas, Frank Miller’s book and movie “300″ ridiculed that kind of soldier…

…even though the first invasion by Persia, ten years earlier – under Xerxes’s father – had been defeated by just such a militia army… from Athens… made up of farmers, clerks, tradesmen, artists and mathematicians. A rabble of ill-disciplined “brawlers” who, after waiting in vain for promised help from Sparta, finally decided to handle the problem alone.  On that fateful day that citizen militia leveled their spears and their thin blue line attacked a professional Persian force many times their number, slaughtering them to the last man on the legendary beach of Marathon.

http://davidbrin.blogspot.com/2011/11/move-over-frank-miller-or-why-occupy.html (http://davidbrin.blogspot.com/2011/11/move-over-frank-miller-or-why-occupy.html)

That entire article seems to be bashing him for some sort of recent comments on the protests on the US, but he conveniently deconstructs how terrible Miller's 300 is as far as historical accuracy. And that's not even getting into the real culprit, the characterisation of the Persian Empire, but when you see stuff like this:
"These people saw people’s heads off. They enslave women, they genitally mutilate their daughters, they do not behave by any cultural norms that are sensible to us. I’m speaking into a microphone that never could have been a product of their culture, and I’m living in a city where three thousand of my neighbors were killed by thieves of airplanes they never could have built."
, it's pretty easy to understand where he's coming from. This guy hates any culture that is even tangentially related to the Islamic religion. It's not about Al-Qaeda, or terrorists. I've read a few reviews of the "Holy Terror" stuff, and it's only served to convince me even further. The US is at war with an idea, indeed, but Miller seems to think that idea is Islam, not Terrorism.

Frank Miller needed the plutocratic military worship AND the freedom-loving democracy to project onto, because that's what he believes the US should be, but he conveniently ignores that no such culture ever existed, at least certainly not in ancient Sparta. And he needed a despicable enemy that could easily be painted as sub-human and he chose...the most technologically and culturally advanced empire at the time...the fails in this guy's symbology for anyone with even passing knowledge of ancient history are just too much. Anyways, the Spartans in 300 are Miller's idealization of the US. There's no way of stating it any clearer.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Thucydides on December 12, 2011, 04:12:55 pm
For the Athenians, who are routinely derided and insulted in the movie, to the point of ommitting, Ooh I don't know, the massive naval battle they were fighting at exactly the same time the Spartans were holding the pass at Thermopylae (along with 1K of militia soldiers from other cities, who despite also being derided and insulted fought and died till the end, they didnt run away to let the brave spartans hold the rearguard) . And that's already pretty ironic, considering the Athenians could own slaves and their democracy was extremely restrictive. The Spartans politically had more in common with Stalinist Russia than anything in the US, and they certainly would never have shouted for freedom during a battle. This is just one of the many reasons Frank Miller fails at history.


except it is repeatively mentioned in both Herodotus and Thucydides that "Greek Freedom" was the rallying cry which both the Athenians and Spartans claimed to fight for. In fact, this idea of "Greek Freedom" was used by Brasdia in the Pelponnesian War to win over neutrals/allies to sparta's cause against Athenian imperialism. We can debate whether or not the actual objective was the liberation of greece or merely shrewed propaganda, the fact is that greek freedom is an integral part of the narrative of the persian wars, and was really what started the Persian wars.

I am not surprised that the Athenians were ignored, the movie is about the 300, not thermopyle and the naval battle that kept the persian fleet in check. Athens would have been another component that wouldn't fit into the narrative of heroic individuals.


of course there will be historical inaccuracies, but such is the nature of every story. I find it particularly interesting that they had a lone spartan survivor retell the story, and it is this story that we see, not what "actually" happened.

as to your latter comments, i'd say that yes, the Spartan state is like National Socialism if slavery was still allowed. But who cares, no one goes to a movie expecting an analysis on governmental and societal mechanisms. Stories can only be so realistic before it becomes boring to the average idiot. Finally, theres no doubting that 300 was meant to show virtues that miller believe are important, but going as far as saying that the spartans are the "idealization" of the proper american may be going too far. I don't really follow your reasoning that 300 is frank miller's idealization of America, because if anything, spartans were not the "freedom loving" democrats that you claim frank miller is espousing as, even in the movie/books you become aware of the Sparan Agoge, and the total LACK of choice you have in spartan society. If anything, miller is promoting only a certain aspect of  american policy, which would be the world's policemen. But thats a far cry from equating Frank miller's Sparta with the USA.

On and one final thing, 300 was written by Miller in 1998, 3 years before 9/11.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: To Kill A Dead Horse on December 14, 2011, 05:47:46 am
I cast my vote for "Ironclad"
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: B3RS3RK on December 18, 2011, 02:32:02 am
I liked 300 because I like blood and murder in movies.

And, tbh, normal People dont see anything else in that movie than some entertaining slaughter.

Its guys like you who are deep into the matter who see similiarities between the "War on terror" and 300.For a normal Guy, its absolutely absurd to compare those things.

I mean, fuck, 300 was about Half-naked Semi-Gay Men massacring Thousands of Gay-looking but heterosexual Persians and some African beasts.

Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Thucydides on December 18, 2011, 10:34:24 am
I liked 300 because I like blood and murder in movies.

And, tbh, normal People dont see anything else in that movie than some entertaining slaughter.

Its guys like you who are deep into the matter who see similiarities between the "War on terror" and 300.For a normal Guy, its absolutely absurd to compare those things.

I mean, fuck, 300 was about Half-naked Semi-Gay Men massacring Thousands of Gay-looking but heterosexual Persians and some African beasts.

My favorite argument to crush is the fact that there were black people on the persian side, "There were no black people in persia, this is so historically inaccurate". Persia reconquered egypt prior to thermoplye and it would make a heck of a lot of sense that they would hire Nubian/Ethiopian mercenaries during that campaign. Persia was not "Iran" but a collection of semi-independant states and races working together under the "King of Kings". It was quite a multi-ethnic empire.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Overdriven on December 18, 2011, 11:59:52 am
I was personally sad that 300 existed. They were about to start making a HISTORICAL movie on Thermopylae. Based on a book I read a while ago, called Gates of Fire (Steven Pressfield). But they decided not to make it and went with 300 instead  :|

But yes, there is no need to look so in depth into a movie like that. Most people take it as face value, entertainment. They don't see anything else, and I'd personally rather look at it that way to. There is such a thing as over analysing something and I fear that is what's happening here.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Thucydides on December 18, 2011, 12:48:00 pm
I was personally sad that 300 existed. They were about to start making a HISTORICAL movie on Thermopylae. Based on a book I read a while ago, called Gates of Fire (Steven Pressfield). But they decided not to make it and went with 300 instead  :|

But yes, there is no need to look so in depth into a movie like that. Most people take it as face value, entertainment. They don't see anything else, and I'd personally rather look at it that way to. There is such a thing as over analysing something and I fear that is what's happening here.

theres one called the 300 spartans http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_300_Spartans

Historical films never do well in the box office, people go to movies to escape not to learn
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Huey Newton on December 19, 2011, 08:03:32 pm
300 and troy are personally my favorite roman movies made in the United States.
I can't say much for gladiator as it looked like some medieval-bubonic plauge- SARS type shit
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Christo on December 19, 2011, 08:50:19 pm
300 and troy are personally my favorite roman greek movies made in the United States.
I can't say much for gladiator as it looked like some medieval-bubonic plauge- SARS type shit

Sorry, had to fix.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Huey Newton on December 20, 2011, 04:43:13 am
Sorry, had to fix.
?
troy and 300 were both roman movies, not greek
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Tot. on December 20, 2011, 05:40:34 am
....This might be interesting.  :lol:
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Overdriven on December 20, 2011, 01:03:19 pm
?
troy and 300 were both roman movies, not greek

Elaborate?
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Ujin on December 20, 2011, 01:14:08 pm
troll.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Christo on December 20, 2011, 03:53:22 pm
?
troy and 300 were both roman movies, not greek

lol

troll.

Only explanation, I agree.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Huey Newton on December 20, 2011, 08:22:11 pm
lol

Only explanation, I agree.

its my american education

swear
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Christo on December 20, 2011, 08:54:57 pm
 :lol:
 :(

Both at the same time.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Draggon on December 20, 2011, 10:16:03 pm
Wow, that was nothing short of awesome.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Thovex on December 23, 2011, 09:55:24 pm
What about Troy?

I liked that one a lot: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0332452/
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on December 27, 2011, 04:11:49 am
The most recent Winnie the Pooh movie was pretty awesome, imo.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: ordunin on December 29, 2011, 02:06:20 am
KaMiKaZe_JoE your quote signature says "do or do not, there is no try" - Dumbledore. That's a quote from Yoda.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Tears of Destiny on December 30, 2011, 07:10:37 am
KaMiKaZe_JoE your quote signature says "do or do not, there is no try" - Dumbledore. That's a quote from Yoda.

Pretty sure you're wrong:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Bobthehero on December 30, 2011, 08:10:10 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3hn6fFTxeo
Because I trust everyone in cRPG to be stupid enough to believe you.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: bredeus on December 30, 2011, 01:07:23 pm
Master Yoda is Dumbledore then.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Thucydides on December 30, 2011, 11:28:11 pm
goddamnit bob you stole my thunder
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: HarunYahya on January 02, 2012, 09:57:02 am
This is a huge topic and an interesting one that there is alot of conflicting information on. 
No way to put everything into one post without it being a massive wall of text, but there is another historical view out there that hasn't caught much attention.  Mainly because mainstream historians have already bought and sold the idea that Troy was in Turkey (the site is now called Troia, in a city renamed Truva by the Turkish government) and this has been taught over the last many years as 'truth'.

However, there has been more 'evidence' that Troy may have very well been in Cornwall.  And the "Achaeans" very possibly may have not been Greeks, but Celts that inhabited that part of Greece during that era.  And hence part of the reason that it is known as Greek Mythology, since Greeks derived most of their mythology directly handed down from the Celts.

It's wild, I know, but there are some pretty strong indicators that point to this.
- Early Greeks of that time weren't strong enough or unified enough to field a massive army or fleet of that size.
- The terrain around Cornwall matches the accounts that speak of a lush, wet climate (rather than the arid, dry climate of Turkey)
- The number of rivers that ran thru and around Troy, match the number of rivers spoken about in the stories.
- The fact that the Celts needed tin for their bronze, which Cornwall was overly abundant in.
- Massive amounts of Celtic influence all around Cornwall that still exists today proves they were in fact there.
- Accounts of a "Brutus of Troy," a descendant of the Trojan hero "Æneas" and according to the Historia Regum Britanniae say he was the legendary founder and first king of Britain.
- In a borrow found at Trelowarren (which is in Cornwall), there are ancient monuments made of clay and stone, of Hector and Patroclus.

And there is a lot, lot more that I can’t remember.  Been awhile since I’ve read any of the books on that, but it was definitely interesting stuff.  They go on to talk about the differences between the seas that were crossed, and the accounts of the return home from Troy and how a return voyage from Cornwall matched the geography so much more, etc, etc.  And some interesting archeological findings in various places along the route.

But this is already turning into a “tldr” kinda thing so I’ll shut it down for now.

Im so necroquoting this post .
I lol'ed irl.
You know what, i've heard that King Arthur is Syrian not English legend.
His real name was Arif not Arthur there is a legend in Syria which is Emir Arif and his Scimitar stucked at rock in Aleppo and his djinn friend muhammed who helped Arif to reclaim his throne and unify mid-east...

For fucks sake there is an ancient city of troy in Çanakkale/Truva region.I've been there and its on UNESCO WORLD HERITAGE LIST yet you claim the legendary Troia was in Britannia and Oddyssey of Homer tells us story of celts in greek ? Greeks had no enough sources to build that army and fleet ? You know ALL states of GREECE united against Troy and ATTACKED together right ?
What do you guys use to get that high for fuckkidy fucks sake ?
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Bobthehero on January 02, 2012, 09:58:22 am
Same thing Turks use ;)
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Thucydides on January 02, 2012, 08:56:04 pm
lulul hashish
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Aljo on January 10, 2012, 05:22:49 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8u5ta4lPNukü
pre-trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8raYASyito
offical trailer

I would like hear some comments , movie will come in February 2012.
(click to show/hide)

gotta watch it
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Cathaoir on January 12, 2012, 06:58:36 am
Tsk Tsk Tsk.
In order of relevance to cRPG

(Trust me, Books are better. Youll actually learn something too, but movies first)

1. Ironclad (2011) Story of one of my random supposed ancestors from England the Comyns,
Getting his ass handed too him by a bunch of mercenaries in a castle. Siege scene is awesome
2. Spartacus (T.V.) - If you dont know who spartacus is, just gtfo,
3. Centurion- only two battle scenes, Britain Vs. Picts, those two scenes are worth it. tactics out the ass, Romans destroyed.
4. VERCINGETORIX - is super far from cRPG, its in Roman era, during shield and sword, but its one of my fav movies. Originally french, its the story of the last stand of the Gauls, a bunch of epic battle scenes, and alot of good feeling. The speeches, the way he surrendered to Ceaser.



BOOKS ARE BETTER  (1 series, about 10 books, "the last kingdom")

!!!!! HOW COULD I FORGET!!!
MAIN KING IS RAGNAR, of the Norseman, or "Nords" ; )
SOUND FAMILIAR (warband)

1. reading "the last kingdom" now. just omg.
lore placed over history about the Danish invasion of england.

The way this guy describes the sword fights it makes my mind create them in slow-mo i love it.

Plus this dudes about as fucked up as me,
the main char has a little gf who licks the blood of the blade after she jams it into dudes balls under their shields in the wall when he swings high to make them raise the shield
(But thats one of the tactics i didnt even think of till now, relevant to cRPG, but more to turning the shielders back then having him raise)

Also, I love the fact he kills off half the books main chars in a hall-burning, cuz he cant go against history.
One of the main reasons I hate most books and movies, everyones gotta slowly die, blacks first.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Draggon on January 15, 2012, 03:10:13 pm
4. VERCINGETORIX - is super far from cRPG, its in Roman era, during shield and sword, but its one of my fav movies. Originally french, its the story of the last stand of the Gauls, a bunch of epic battle scenes, and alot of good feeling. The speeches, the way he surrendered to Ceaser.

Is that the one with Christopher Lambert and Max Von Sidow?
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Joker86 on January 15, 2012, 04:25:04 pm
It is.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Oberyn on January 15, 2012, 05:34:44 pm
That movie was a travesty.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0199481/reviews
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Angantyr on January 15, 2012, 05:44:18 pm
In all ways..
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Cathaoir on January 16, 2012, 03:52:48 pm
That movie was a travesty.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0199481/reviews

Different Perspectives.

People hated it becuase of how inaccurate it was,
Which is why I love it.

I despise people who are grotesquely obsessed with historical accuracy.
If I wanted to read about history,
Id read about history.

If I want to watch a movie,
I want it to be bards tale, full of slaughter, speeches, and myths.

People who expect to learn about 100 year conflicts in less then 60 minutes by moving pictures make me LMFAO
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Cathaoir on January 16, 2012, 03:58:49 pm
Im so necroquoting this post .
I lol'ed irl.
You know what, i've heard that King Arthur is Syrian not English legend.
His real name was Arif not Arthur there is a legend in Syria which is Emir Arif and his Scimitar stucked at rock in Aleppo and his djinn friend muhammed who helped Arif to reclaim his throne and unify mid-east...

For fucks sake there is an ancient city of troy in Çanakkale/Truva region.I've been there and its on UNESCO WORLD HERITAGE LIST yet you claim the legendary Troia was in Britannia and Oddyssey of Homer tells us story of celts in greek ? Greeks had no enough sources to build that army and fleet ? You know ALL states of GREECE united against Troy and ATTACKED together right ?
What do you guys use to get that high for fuckkidy fucks sake ?

wow I never new that, That makes you think.
I wonder how many other bards tales were lost like that.

and also thinking,

if the Welsh didnt have King Arthur what did they have?
Because really they didnt have shit else going for them.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Overdriven on January 16, 2012, 09:34:55 pm
Different Perspectives.

People hated it becuase of how inaccurate it was,
Which is why I love it.

I despise people who are grotesquely obsessed with historical accuracy.
If I wanted to read about history,
Id read about history.

If I want to watch a movie,
I want it to be bards tale, full of slaughter, speeches, and myths.

People who expect to learn about 100 year conflicts in less then 60 minutes by moving pictures make me LMFAO

It's a historical movie, about a famous figure who existed in history. Yes it should be historically accurate...otherwise make up your own story.

It's the reason I hated Braveheart. In itself it's a good movie, but my god is it so full of shit, inaccuracy and just out right idiocy that it makes it hard to watch if you already know the history behind it.

Yes there has to be some degree of artistic license, but the problem comes when they start representing famous historical figures rather inaccurately, or the weapons and armour they use, or the reasons for a certain battle ect. Again coming back to Braveheart, that was designed to be anti-English in every way, to the point where the dropped historical accuracy completely.

Edit:

The depressing thing is that people who watch these movies will often assume that what is happening is fact, because they are deemed historical movies. You then get people believing things which are completely wrong because they have been influenced by it. If they were actually historically accurate, that wouldn't happen.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Nagasoup on January 17, 2012, 05:56:13 am
I despise people who are grotesquely obsessed with historical accuracy.
If I wanted to read about history,
Id read about history.

Actually, the people who ARE genuinely interested in history don't watch movies to learn the history, but rather, they know the history beforehand, then watch the movie, and are pissed off when it is nothing like what they've read.

In fact
, it is the people who ARE NOT "grotesquely obsessed" (seriously? its grotesque to like history?) with history that actually go to movies to learn! And what happens? They learn a false, BASTARDIZED version of "history" which they take to be the truth! With the average person today being completely clueless about history, what movie producers have done, is REWRITE HISTORY.

Movies, are in effect, much more powerful than any history textbook, thus the massive historical inaccuracies (like the example with Braveheart someone mentioned) is not only insulting to the people who do understand history, but quite scary due to their potential effects on the ones who don't.

Book burning? Soviet style propaganda? They are NOTHING compared to Hollywood, and that is what worries me.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Christo on January 17, 2012, 06:32:35 am
Book burning? Soviet style propaganda? They are NOTHING compared to Hollywood, and that is what worries me.

Remember the old saying?

History is written by the Victors.

I think dictators from other eras would love our little gadgets, TV-s and all that stuff.
 Sure, there was the Church back in the day, but this is even more scary.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Jan_van_Zuidwijk on January 18, 2012, 12:14:46 am
Voyna I Mir...

You have got to love the uniforms... and the 500,000 extras :D
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Osiris on January 19, 2012, 07:52:31 pm
Quote
BOOKS ARE BETTER  (1 series, about 10 books, "the last kingdom")

!!!!! HOW COULD I FORGET!!!
MAIN KING IS RAGNAR, of the Norseman, or "Nords" ; )
SOUND FAMILIAR (warband)

1. reading "the last kingdom" now. just omg.
lore placed over history about the Danish invasion of england.


wut. if your reading Cornwells books about Uhtred then they are some of the most epic books written but Ragnar isnt a King :P
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Overdriven on January 20, 2012, 01:25:12 pm

wut. if your reading Cornwells books about Uhtred then they are some of the most epic books written but Ragnar isnt a King :P

Aaah yeah those books are good :)
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Thomek on January 20, 2012, 10:56:53 pm
well movies are movies.

You can't make an economically successful and realistic war movie taking all aspects into account. Movies are business and have to make back what they cost to make. When it comes to war movies.. I think what films can communicate to a larger degree that other medias is to engage us emotionally in the tragedy as well as give some hint about how it would have been in certain situation. (i.e. opening scene of saving private ryan) Although the film was probably very far from realities in how intense it must have been, it can help us imagine how bad it was.

Movies have to tell a story in 1 1/2 to 2 hours, you need a target audience, you need some love, some violence, some sex, some drama. After the main stuff is covered, it is little screen time left for giving a balanced account of the circumstances. For filmmakers, the main point is to communicate the drama of the main character.. Sold in a setting of war.

Not all films are like this though..

btw.. the best/worst war movie ever is russian: Come and See.
Kind of a subjective tale of the chaotic war in ukraine (wwii) seen from a young boy's perspective. One of the saddest and most powerful films you will ever see. It's also fairly realistic in many ways, although everything is subjective from the boys perspective. (they used real bullets and real artillery shells for some scenes, and the boy actor was put on heavy soviet psychodrugs.. )
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Osiris on January 24, 2012, 01:31:37 pm
Hollywoods historical films are good as long as you dont expect them to be in any way true :D You must realise that in hollywood

1. America is the greatest and does no wrong
2. The English and Russians are all evil
3. Anything the English or Russians do right they turn into americans
and 4. 1 american can defeat multiple enemies of a different nationality :P

examples :D

U-571 - Americans capture a U boat and steal enigma machine and documents. In reality U-571 was sunk by australians and U-570 was captured by the Royal Navy.
Braveheart - Almost nothing in this film is remotly accurate :D (hell they didnt even wear kilts at that time)
Gladiator - Not even close but still epic
The Patriot - Mel gibson again nuff said
Last Samurai - granted i dont think they wanted to be accurate

Now these are great films in their own right but just dont expect anything to be true :D its a film after all <3


Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: bredeus on January 25, 2012, 03:42:34 pm
Throne of Blood and Red Beard :>
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Ujin on January 26, 2012, 09:59:24 am
Throne of Blood

weeaboo
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: bredeus on January 26, 2012, 11:55:35 am
Was a weaboo then ralized that samurais were homo
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: whitepaladin on January 26, 2012, 09:58:55 pm
kingdom of heaven,monty python and the holy grail and ivanhoe are my favorites! :D
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Overdriven on January 27, 2012, 02:36:27 am
kingdom of heaven

Only if it's the extended version. If you're not talking about that...I demand you watch it and then restate your like love of Kingdom of Heaven
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Penitent on January 27, 2012, 06:17:17 pm
I actually saw a good weeabo movie while on a flight from Korea.  It's "War of the Arrow."  Maybe not weeabo cuz it was Koreans, not Japanese, but it was actually pretty awesome.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Osiris on January 29, 2012, 01:31:49 pm
slightly off topic :D

Warriors by Terry Shappert is a pretty awesome TV Docu series
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 31, 2012, 09:24:00 pm
Saw Red Cliff: Theatrical version the other day, my favorite war movie ever.  Set in 200 AD China.

Showing actual military formations and fighting that includes gory scenes of people being run through with spears and swords.  Not to mention goes over the diplomatic and politics of the war.

Wish there was some cool movies like this set in middle ages Europe, so many good battles and wars and prolonged countries hating each other during this period. 

For TV shows I really like the Tudors, and I've yet to see game of thrones, but look forward to seeing that series. 

A knights tale was a pretty good middle ages movie too, but on a small scale.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Armpit_Sweat on February 03, 2012, 01:22:29 pm
Ironclad, 300, Troy?.. Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies?.. You smoke crack?

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Penitent on February 03, 2012, 07:16:59 pm
Ironclad, 300, Troy?.. Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies?.. You smoke crack?

I was going to say the same thing when someone suggested "A Knights Tale."  I almost threw up in my mouth, LOL.

The crowd singing "We will rock you" during a joust tournament.  Really?  That movie was terribad.

I liked 300 though....it was a great movie, but only loosely historical of course.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Boerenlater on February 04, 2012, 04:14:02 pm
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096928/
the medieval part was pretty accurate
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Casimir on February 08, 2012, 04:01:26 am
If you want good martial arts movie watch the Last blades man.  based on history / romance of the three kingdoms, good watch for dynasty warriors fans.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Tor! on February 09, 2012, 01:42:19 pm
If you want good martial arts movie watch the Last blades man.  based on history / romance of the three kingdoms, good watch for dynasty warriors fans.

imdb link? cant find an exact match to that title  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Christo on February 09, 2012, 01:58:46 pm
I think it's called the "Lost" bladesman, not "Last" Bladesman.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lost_Bladesman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lost_Bladesman)

But wait, since when are these movies accurate? Anyone remembers HERO?  :lol:
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Casimir on February 09, 2012, 03:32:42 pm
Indeed lost bladesman, my mistake.

The love interest in the film is retarded and completely overplayed by the movie.  By the fight scenes are cool enough to make up for that.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Joker86 on February 09, 2012, 07:44:45 pm
I always get the impression that an important part of Asian film making is "make it as unrealistic as possible". Never saw an Asian movie that actually tried to show real fighting, how it probably looked like.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Ujin on February 09, 2012, 10:22:50 pm
I always get the impression that an important part of Asian film making is "make it as unrealistic as possible". Never saw an Asian movie that actually tried to show real fighting, how it probably looked like.
If you really think that the western movies show proper fighting , you're terribly wrong. It's just as staged and fake as it is in most asian titles. It's obviously done that way for entertainment reasons, for the audience. In many asian movies they either use the over-choriographed approach or the over-gory approach (although that can be also said about the western movie-makers).

I don't know about about you, but for example i enjoy Kurosawa's battle/duel scene's.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Joker86 on February 09, 2012, 11:03:51 pm
Bad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ygRholyh5g)

Better (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dshjgSCEJFY) (At least has some dirty tricks and a few "desperate" actions  :wink:)

Pretty decent (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbSa9ZvSMaQ)

Really good! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct0ZqyJUfY8) (You stab where you can, and Viggo Mortensen is that exhausted after a few minutes, he can't even push that dead Frenchman off himself any more)

Another nice scene is this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzjSlHjPfu8) one, from the same movie. I like how they need to stab that big trumpeter over twenty times until he goes down, or how the main character uses a trick at 1:53 which does look like a real trick you would be trained to and use in fighting.

I like the whole "kill whoever you can and then save your sorry ass"-attitude of the whole movie.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Ujin on February 09, 2012, 11:11:52 pm
So you've found one spanish historical movie to contradict my statement ? Congratulations =). I was gonna watch that one btw, thanks for reminding me.


P.S. a bit of a n offtopic- my fave fight scene in a movie :D  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnT0EgNZ7Kg
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Christo on February 09, 2012, 11:15:29 pm
Wait a minute.. there is a knife in his back?

 :shock:

Or, what is it? Looks like a knife.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Penitent on February 09, 2012, 11:20:03 pm
"War of the Arrow", a korean movie, is pretty realistic.  Cept for a couple things (archer trick-shots).

"Princess Bride" was pretty realistic combat. :)
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Joker86 on February 09, 2012, 11:25:55 pm
So you've found one spanish historical movie to contradict my statement ? Congratulations =). I was gonna watch that one btw, thanks for reminding me.

Well, I just wanted to say that I didn't know an Asian movie with such battle scenes. It's always whirling around some weird bamboo spear with soft shaft and hitting around enemies on their ears like it was a wet towel, and flying through the air with the help of invisible but obivous ropes. That's what I saw from Asian movies.  :?

Edit: another movie I think I can recommend to anyone who isn't too much into historic realism is The Messenger: Joan of Arc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W87sf7CewDE). It has a few bullshit elements, but all in all I think it is pretty decent work.

Edit2: Couldn't find a better vid, the movie is rather unknown  :?
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Ujin on February 10, 2012, 12:36:56 am
Well, I just wanted to say that I didn't know an Asian movie with such battle scenes. It's always whirling around some weird bamboo spear with soft shaft and hitting around enemies on their ears like it was a wet towel, and flying through the air with the help of invisible but obivous ropes. That's what I saw from Asian movies.  :?

Edit: another movie I think I can recommend to anyone who isn't too much into historic realism is The Messenger: Joan of Arc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W87sf7CewDE). It has a few bullshit elements, but all in all I think it is pretty decent work.

Edit2: Couldn't find a better vid, the movie is rather unknown  :?
Unless you're an asiaphobe (and then our conversation is pointless), you should probably do some more research or ask people around and watch some more asian war and alike movies. So far it seems that either you just watched house of flying daggers or a couple of those crazy kung-fu flicks from the previous century. You know, the ones where a 90 year old mr.Miyagi with a 2 meters long beard flies around =).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V33a3yQIc-8   nice movie with only a couple of fight scenes though, but the final duel is realistic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ht5y1rX2zk&feature=related not rly realistic, but still, no flying and well -choreographed overall

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgPC74-Tde8 nothing realistic about this one, but it's still fun to watch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLbSKfkpGBg i think this was Kurosawa's first movie in colours ,and by god did he use them well.Beautifull scenery, battle scenes and story . A classic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvDS_nGDSAM&feature=related again beautiful use of scenery and colours,big battle scenes+some duels, somewhat cheesy music and not entirely realistic though, still a good one imo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB5KuqUd1WM&feature=related another Kurosawa movie. Basically Shakespeare's Macbeth , japanese style. Not many fight/battle scenes, but i think this is a very underappreciated movie .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVjv9atS87k&feature=related The whole movie builds up to this scene. The famous 47 ronins story. Of course not much realistic and you can see them slashing the air, but it was the same in almost all the movies at that time anyway. Americans are making a movie about this story atm, with Keanu Reeves...lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOunibdB0YY&feature=related Kurosawa again. The movie that inspired the Magnificent Seven.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoo5jyN5_uQ&feature=related Guess who ? Yep , Kurosawa again, probably my fave one of his work. Awesome movie with a very clever story.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sULTwrKipc&feature=related just for shits and giggles :D


Unfortunately i'm no expert when it comes to Korean/Chinese movies, although i do recall watching some very decent (and more or less realistic) military movies , i can't remember any names right now.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Christo on February 10, 2012, 01:13:22 am
I remember watching three Korean series.
A bit of Drama mixed with military/political themes. They were alright.  :)

Sure, flashy unrealistic combat, but the historic storyline and some clever twists and characters made up for it.

Dae Jang Geum, is one of them. You see more things about the court, and intrigues in there, not that much fighting, or wars.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dae_Jang_Geum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dae_Jang_Geum)

The second one I watched was a bit more about fighting, sure, not realistic fighting but who cares, I enjoyed it.

http://wiki.d-addicts.com/Queen_Seon_Deok

It's called, Queen Seon Deok. I don't know how accurate costumes, and background stuff are here. It was watchable, and enjoyable at most parts for me.

And, there is another series that I started watching, but never finished it. It has more of that intrigue/politics thing, combined with some "crime scene" stuff, old style. Trying to remember what the hell it's name was.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Dezilagel on February 10, 2012, 08:05:46 am
@Joker

Why the f**k would anyone march an unshielded pike regiment into direct combat with another? It's just going to be a massive slaughter for both sides. Looked pretty alright up to that point though
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Bobthehero on February 10, 2012, 09:12:09 am
What else could they have sent?

Cavalary? Pike'd! Fully armored dude? Bitch, please! Gun them down? No way a single volley or two would be enough to kill everyone before the first pike poke your underarmed and underarmored gunners!
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Dezilagel on February 10, 2012, 10:15:13 am
Battles weren't fought by robots, they were fought by humans. And even if a commander would be crazy enough to send pikes into pike vs. pike confrontations I doubt that anyone would fight that battle. One side would simply have to run away.

As said, those pikemen didn't have shields, they weren't equipped for pike vs. pike combat unlike for example the Macedonian phalanxes or the Greek hoplites.

If you'd want to counter pikes you'd probably just want to shoot them.

That-guy-whatever-his-name-is did a video on this, and it's basically him I'm referencing (coupled with some common sense) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbhANeJL_T4
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Joker86 on February 10, 2012, 07:39:08 pm
In my Osprey books I found a passage which has probably to do with the question of pikes vs. pikes. Only problem: there are large quotations in old English, and I am no native speaker, so I have problems understanding everything. But I will mark what I THINK is relevant:

THE INFANTRY CONFRONTATION
Sir James Turner - who had fought in several - described an infantry
advance thus:

Your advance upon an Enemy, in what posture soever he be, should be
with a constant, firm and steady pace; the Musketeers (whether they
be on the Flanks or interlin'd with either the Horse or the Pikes) firing
all the while; but when you come within Pistol-shot [the term used
here as a measure of distance], you should double your pace, till your
Pikes closely serr'd together, charge these, whether Horse or Foot,
whom you find before them. It is true, the business very oft comes not
to push of Pike, but it hath and may come oft to it, and then Pikemen
are very serviceable.


Although Turner favoured a steady advance with musketeers firing as they
came (which would have required them to employ the practice of firing by
successive ranks), other commanders preferred the Swedish tactic of reserving
their fire until very close range, firing one or two massive volleys, and then
'falling on' opposing infantry while they were still reeling from the shock.
This reserving of fire could be employed both offensively and defensively.
A good contemporary description of Scottish infantry fighting in the
Swedish army at Breitenfeld was given by LtCol Muschamp to Dr William
Watts:

'First (saith he), giving fire unto three little Field-pieces that I had before
me, I suffered not my muskettiers to give their volleyes till I came within Pistollshot
of the enemy, at which time I gave order to the first [three] rancks to
discharge at once, and after them the other three: which done we fell pell mell
into their ranckes, knocking them downe with the stocke of the Musket and our
swords.' Sir James Turner - who was not present at this battle - wrote of the
use of the 'Salvee' (volley) that he thought that it was used 'when either the
business seems to be desparate, or that the Bodies are so near, that the Pikemen
are almost come to push of Pike, and then no other use can be made of the
Musquet but of the Butt-end of it'. Muschamp also described an occasion when
opposing pikemen were less enthusiastic to advance, and a 'brave commander
of theirs all in scarlet and gold lace there was right before us; whom we might
discerne to lay upon his own mens pates [heads] and shoulders; to cut and slash
divers* of them, with his sword, because they would not come upon us. This
gentleman maintained the fight a full houre, and more against us; but he being
slaine, wee might perceive their pikes and colours [flags] to topple downe, to
tumble and fall crosse one over another; whereupon all his men beginning to
flee, wee had the pursuit of them until the night parted us.'


Where the battalions in the first line of an army - or part of them - are
forced back, 'then the Reserve behind should be order'd immediately to
advance, and encounter the Victorious Enemy, who will hardly be able to
withstand that fresh charge, for it may be almost received as a Maxim, That
a Troop, Regiment or Brigade, how strong so-ever it be, which hath fought
with and beaten that Body of equal number that stood against it, may be easily
routed by a Troop, Regiment or Brigade that has not fought, though far
inferior in number. If any part of an Army get the Victory of those who stand
against it, he who commands that part ought to send some Troops in pursuit
of the routed Enemy, and with the rest fall on the flank of the Battallion which
stands next him, and yet keeps ground. The neglect of this duty lost the famous
General, Count Tili, the Battel of Leipsick [Breitenfeld-Leipzig].'


The first half of the first marked section seems to confirm the thoughts of the guy from your video, Dezilagel, but the second part/last sentence seems to say that it still happened like in my vid.

*Does he mean with "divers" those guys like in the video I posted above, who drop their pike, and quickly crawl underneath the enemy pikes to stab the enemy pikemen with their daggers or swords?
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Bobthehero on February 11, 2012, 01:49:02 am

If you'd want to counter pikes you'd probably just want to shoot them.



With what? Short ranged guns that allows only for a volley until the pikemen charge you and overwhel the gunners?
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Dezilagel on February 11, 2012, 01:50:18 am
With what? Short ranged guns that allows only for a volley until the pikemen charge you and overwhel the gunners?

YES!

Muskets were completely useless, that's why noone really used them.

Weeping bald eagles and shit gooooo!!!
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Bobthehero on February 11, 2012, 01:54:23 am
They are using Arquebuse and they're busy shooting at the Dragoon.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Dezilagel on February 11, 2012, 03:32:55 am
So you are saying that they brought firearms to shoot at other units using firearms but that they would get steamrolled by everything else?

(click to show/hide)

Big, tight blocks of pikemen must have been very vulnerable to concentrated fire.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Bobthehero on February 11, 2012, 07:16:56 am
Their gunners shoot at the riders.

Therefore they cannot concentrate fire on the pikemen.

Now if they could shoot, there's no way they'd actually kill enough of them before the pikemen would reach them, where they would get slaugthered.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Mosquito on February 15, 2012, 01:37:21 am
I was personally sad that 300 existed. They were about to start making a HISTORICAL movie on Thermopylae. Based on a book I read a while ago, called Gates of Fire (Steven Pressfield). But they decided not to make it and went with 300 instead  :|

But yes, there is no need to look so in depth into a movie like that. Most people take it as face value, entertainment. They don't see anything else, and I'd personally rather look at it that way to. There is such a thing as over analysing something and I fear that is what's happening here.

I read that book too Overdriven, it paints a more balanced picture of Spartan life from an helot's PoV if i remember right?

300 was a joke, all about making the Spartans americanized. The Spartans weren't very nice, had a seriously brutal social system which , kept slaves,  and annually declared war on said slaves using their 'secret police'......hhhmm nice role models. I put it in the same folder as 'Team America world police' as a film, was entertaining though:)

Someone mentioned early in the thread another older Thermopylae film, i think it was called' Leonidas' or similar.

Ironclad was my choice too, i bought another film on the same day and i think it might have appeal for some of cRPGs Rus fans - Iron lord (about Yaroslav one of founders of Russia apparently) was hard for me to follow in subtitles since i didn't know the historical setting, some good scenes in it though.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Captain_Georges on February 15, 2012, 06:13:31 am
So you are saying that they brought firearms to shoot at other units using firearms but that they would get steamrolled by everything else?

Then what's the point of bringing firearms in the first place?

Big, tight blocks of pikemen must have been very vulnerable to concentrated fire.

Ladies and gents fierarms have been incorporated into many of the european armies for the same reason the crossbow was - it was even easier to use. Did you not notice how as european medieval history progresses through times, battles get bigger and bigger? The reason is fairly simple - an archer would train years to be proficient with a bow, months with a crossbow, and mere weeks with a musket. By the time of napoleonic wars, you would be given a gun, a uniform and if youre lucky, some training. It became a conflict of numbers and resources as well as strategy. So thats why the new age medieval armies are superior. Being a armored clad knight is all well and nice, but see how many of those you can pit against a ten times bigger ammount of levied pikemen/halberdiers. That is why the knights slowly died out. Train from age of 7 to get shot by a bullet. Only romantics believe in the superiority of the stereotypical medieval doctrine.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Christo on February 15, 2012, 06:18:01 am
Only romantics believe in the superiority of the stereotypical medieval doctrine.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

 :mrgreen:

QFT
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Bobthehero on February 15, 2012, 09:31:12 am
Ladies and gents fierarms have been incorporated into many of the european armies for the same reason the crossbow was - it was even easier to use. Did you not notice how as european medieval history progresses through times, battles get bigger and bigger? The reason is fairly simple - an archer would train years to be proficient with a bow, months with a crossbow, and mere weeks with a musket. By the time of napoleonic wars, you would be given a gun, a uniform and if youre lucky, some training. It became a conflict of numbers and resources as well as strategy. So thats why the new age medieval armies are superior. Being a armored clad knight is all well and nice, but see how many of those you can pit against a ten times bigger ammount of levied pikemen/halberdiers. That is why the knights slowly died out. Train from age of 7 to get shot by a bullet. Only romantics believe in the superiority of the stereotypical medieval doctrine.

Incidentaly the Nap' wars still had the odd cavalry charge, its not until Poles at the start of WW2 that it truely disapeared (and no they did not charged tanks, rather an entrenched position that recieved armored support after they were overwhelmed)

As for the pikemen and gunner thing, you're just thick and retarded if you can't see that the gunners here would get locked in melee way before they could inflict significant losses to the pikemen.

And guns were used around 1300, took 150-200 years till the knights truly started to fade away.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Janis_Corp on February 15, 2012, 03:06:44 pm
A new Cinema Movie from turkey, calls
Fetih 1453

Play in the Time of the conqest of Konstantinopel , the stuff Looks expansiv Budget Movie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HoR9_VdAXc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Joker86 on February 15, 2012, 06:30:18 pm
Indeed it looks... "pretty"... similar to a lot of Russian movies and from some other countries, but I am still waiting for a really "good" one from those countries.

Usually they lack the "maturity" you can find sometimes in western (though usually not Hollywood) movies.

The historic movies of all those countries that try to establish some film industry always have a few points in common:

- glorification of the own history
- one dimensional characters. Usually evil invaders, good defenders. Main character has some kind of "alibi character flaw" like being afraid of water or something like that, which doesn't really make him deep  :? )
- battles are usually too big (hundreds of thousands of animated soldiers)
- battle skills are usually way too high for the main characters (having them dancing over the battlefield and killing shitloads of enemies while passing by)
- high gore factor with hundreds of gallons of blood, without being really realistic
- although usually being close to history you can always find mistakes that weren't really neccessary. You don't have to put every soldier in a uniform to show the audiance which side he belongs to. Using different equipment but with a common colour would be the perfect compromise


I see many of those points in the trailer above. Don't get me wrong, I will watch this movie for certain, I just want to say that I am waiting for a movie that is NOT this way. But actually I know only few movies that meet my criterias above. One was, as I said, "Alatriste", another one is "The name of the Rose". "Flesh and Blood" is something in between, as some of the points above apply on the movie, but some don't.

"Kingdom of Heaven" has a lot of aspects of the list above (especially concerning the one dimensional characters), but on the other hand it lacks the damn glorification and pathos ("Killing a muslim is no murder - it's the way to heaven!", the Knight Templars attacking that caravan, the Bishop suggesting to convert to Islam and renounce it later), and the main characters are no real superhumans while fighting. So I would say it's a good movie, but without Balian and everything around him it could have been a great one.  :cry:

But movies like "Robin Hood" or "Braveheart" are fitting perfectly to the list above.  :lol:

I hope you guys understand what I mean.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Ubereem on April 23, 2012, 04:58:15 pm
I really been digging this Jet Li movie on Netflix called The Warlords. Some awesome action scenes and some insight into how armies are funded and used by the elite to battle amongst themselves. Sort of like money changers in europe financing both sides of wars. good shit if u know wtf im talking about. if not go back to your TV
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: ThePoopy on April 30, 2012, 10:58:48 pm
red cliff
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Beauchamp on May 02, 2012, 11:16:01 pm
excalibur (1981)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyCParQTtnE
and a few others that were mentioned many times already, no need to repeat that...
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: bredeus on May 03, 2012, 12:02:14 am
with Jean-Luc Percival;)
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Herkkutatti on May 11, 2012, 03:13:46 am
Tell me good movies to download!
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Christo on May 11, 2012, 02:13:10 pm
The Room xD
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Nagasoup on May 15, 2012, 03:15:33 am
The Room xD

This  :D

epic movie def one of the best
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Boerenlater on May 15, 2012, 11:24:44 pm
Tell me good movies to download!
Twilight and its sequels.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: SoA_Sir_ODHarry on May 26, 2012, 02:33:06 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BfPgF4DF-Q
 also awesome
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Herkkutatti on May 26, 2012, 02:41:13 pm
MOAR MOVIES
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: SoA_Sir_ODHarry on May 26, 2012, 03:00:11 pm
hehe another oldi but epic as i remember

Lawrence of Arabia:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwtmgh3ECr8
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Herkkutatti on May 26, 2012, 03:01:45 pm
I think i have pirated every movie that has been mentioned here  :P
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: SoA_Sir_ODHarry on May 26, 2012, 03:03:27 pm
I just found the Thread and thats what im gonna do now too :D

starting with El Cid just epic 1

classy :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOP5IaF29T8
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: spl00gedon on June 02, 2012, 08:46:15 am
Didn't really check to see if anyone has mentioned it but the Game of Thrones series. It's not totally action packed, it's a bit corny, and mythologically driven, but I find it enjoyable and the character development makes it fun to watch.  It has enough action to keep you interested but it's dispersed enough to keep the action itself from getting redundant and unnecessary. 
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Valknut on June 02, 2012, 03:56:50 pm
Anyone seen the documentery movie: The Battle For Middle Earth: 1066

About the viking invasions near york and offcourse the norman invasions in the south wich led to the famous battle of hastings.
It's really well done with alot of action maybe not high budget but it sure is historical accurate.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: BlindGuy on June 02, 2012, 04:10:24 pm
A knight's tale is still a good choice.

I like the "sport" feeling in the movie.


Pls gtfo. In all honesty, just, gtfo.


Now, as to GOOD movies:

The Vikings (1958, Kurt Douglas, Tony Curtis)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0052365/

This movie has it all: Janet Leigh looking good, a man having an eye gouged out by a hawk, vikings "walking the oars", throwing axes at hot viking women, shield walls, the ORIGINAL of an idea used in the film TROY where archers burst out of shield wall to shoot and then cover, it has major characters being dismembered, it has Battle Mode, Siege mode, and Duel all covered, features shielders fighting 1 vs 2, swapping targets, like we do in crpg.

If you like Warband, and I assume you do cause your in this forum, THIS IS A MOVIE FOR YOU. Spend the time, it really is worth it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyone seen the documentery movie: The Battle For Middle Earth: 1066

About the viking invasions near york and offcourse the norman invasions in the south wich led to the famous battle of hastings.
It's really well done with alot of action maybe not high budget but it sure is historical accurate.

Here it is for you. I oike this tbh, budget was HIGH I think for a TV movie but, well, it musta been a strange project from the start...

http://www.putlocker.com/file/254401216CE34AB0#

... a TV movie from a couple of years ago, not so many ppl have seen it, its....well, it's better than a Knights Tale, thats for damn sure, not far off historical accuracy.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arn the Knight Templar

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0837106/

Templars are just winners, that's all there is too that, end of.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Angantyr on June 02, 2012, 07:18:09 pm
Anyone seen the documentery movie: The Battle For Middle Earth: 1066

About the viking invasions near york and offcourse the norman invasions in the south wich led to the famous battle of hastings.
It's really well done with alot of action maybe not high budget but it sure is historical accurate.
Probably the only 'historical movie' ever made.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: spl00gedon on June 03, 2012, 02:19:39 am
Probably the only 'historical movie' ever made.

It sounds pretty cool I'll have to check it out
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Vengt037 on July 06, 2012, 09:34:26 pm
First battle in the first scene of the first episode of the Rome series.

I don't know if that's really how the Roman's fought or not (with the centurion whistling every 20 seconds and the legionnaires taking turns rotating to the front ranks), but this is one of the cooler battles scenes I have ever seen.
Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: djavo on July 07, 2012, 03:50:12 am
Battle of Neretva

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064091/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064091/)

Title: Re: Best Ancient / Medieval Military History Movies: I'll start...
Post by: Tyrell on July 13, 2012, 02:46:24 am

Arn the Knight Templar

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0837106/

Templars are just winners, that's all there is too that, end of.
Fuck that 6.4 rating, the movie was amazing.