We have a new "Swiss knife" build. Wanna' be effective? Just get a ridiculously fast one-hander, with light speed, a BIG round shield, to piss off anyone, and don't forget to bring a throwing weapon as well!
I have nothing against hybridization, but this is beginning to piss me off, when I try to charge, 3 shielders backpedal and start throwing shit at me, or they just lolturtle-facehug me.
While my pole weapons got a speed nerf, these guys got a speed buff. They became insanely fast, I can't even see their damned swings, let alone counterattacking.
One-handers can be lightning fast without a shield, I'm cool with that. But with a big ass steel shield.. it doesn't make sense.
They are effective, fast, powerful, can use a shield, can annoy everyone with easymode point-blank lolthrow kills.
Meh.
Too fast? What on earth are you trying to duel them with, great mauls?
Elegant Poleaxe / Swiss 'Berd.
But damn.. they eat me for breakfast. I'm supposed to be the anti-shield guy, it's weird.
Maybe I'll need to get used to my primary weapon again, it gets slower and slower every patch.. hope it won't go down again.
1h+shield is currently the most powerful build, too bad it's so boring to play. It still amazes me how 1handers still whine about being underpowered after athey got buffed, while 2H/PA got nerfed and their main complaint is spam... when all a 1H does is right-click to raise his shield, wait for the opponent to hit once than immediately spam-spam-spam, enemy dead, move to next target. And these days most 1h+shield are hybrids with throwing, so the ranged advantage of 2H/PA is history.
Don't belive me? Take a look on the servers, more than 50% of the infantry people are 1H+Shield, same goes for big clans that now seem to rely on 1h+shields as well (DRZ for example).
On one hand I don't believe two handers need any further nerf and i'm wary to nerf one handers if only to give noobies a chance and I want to experiment with some one hander stuff(muhahah )
Two hand ought to be the elite class and it is now:no ranged defence or shield use with wpf, no throwing weapons u can use as a melee with the x key, no horserear(we are there, at this point your using twohand as a style choice instead of polearms)
The thing we are really seeing is that banner balances give more power to the shield builds that have always been better in massed fighting due to passive protection against ranged attacks and of course holding the right mouse button and falling back into your clanmates after u get damaged
The reality of the game after banner balance may mean we should look at weakening the thrust damage of one hand polearm and shield and one hand and shield
My main retired to polearm thrower and I will probably for once in ten gems have shield skill
It was that or one hand but I want to try halfswording for the lulz
Ps Urlurkur is the biggest onehand.lobbying guy in the world anything he posts is a lie thx
Next gen I go one hand im letting my alts sit just takes too long to level them
The main problem is the "Side Sword".
Everyone runs around with these pirate-ish swords. They are basically 1handed katanas without the 1h nerf.
* 1 less speed than katana at 101. (3x heirloomed it is like a 2x heirloomed kata..)
* exactly the same length
* 3 less swing damage
* 8 more thrust damage
Paul/Urist. This is absurd.
It might be quite easy to manual-block for you and me but this sword has the option of using a shield.
SHIELD:
* Impregnable to projectiles from 180 something degree arc
* Can hold off 2+ Opponents + ranged at the same time.
* Can stop a couched lance
* Can soak up damage up to 600 hp (Correct me if I'm wrong)
* Simple, right-click block
When the shield breaks, you are still a fully capable force if you can duel..
THEN:
Side Sword
weight 1.3
requirement 8
spd rtng 101
weapon length 95
swing damage 32, cut
thrust damage 26 pierce
Katana:
weight 1.25
requirement 9
spd rtng 102
weapon length 95
swing damage 35, cut
thrust damage 18 pierce
1 of the above has wrong stats since they cost about the same. Seriously, you can hit and damage someone more with a wooden stick used with 2 hands than with a sword in 1 hand. Perhaps don't make the katana faster, since it seems to be game breaking for some players, but at least give it the damage of 2 hands on a piece of metal.
Just for reference, the old Elite Spammitar:
Elite Scimitar
weight 1.25
requirement 7
spd rtng 99
weapon length 100
swing damage 31, cut
thrust damage 0 pierce
"If you cant feel 3 additional base damage then meh."
Well let me retort!
"If you can't feel 8 more thrust damage then meh."
Come with some arguments Urlukur.
(And check your eyes, everyone seems to be using side sword these days. It's simply too OP)
* 1 less speed than katana at 101. (3x heirloomed it is like a 2x heirloomed kata..)
* exactly the same length
* Impregnable to projectiles from 180 something degree arc
"If you cant feel 3 additional base damage then meh."
Well let me retort!
"If you can't feel 8 more thrust damage then meh."
Come with some arguments Urlukur.
2 speed less on the side sword
Keep the damage on the side sword
Since I think main frustration for shielders is the constant armor-bouncing vs way more agile 2 handers. Boosting the speeds near-katana levels only makes manual blocking extremely hard, add to the mix weird pings and imperfect netcode and non-duel-like battles, and you have an OP weapon.
Katana needs a bit more damage comparable to the other swords in the same price range around 37 would be good. (Most of the big swords do 39-43)
The Elite Spammitar was always a mean beast in it's day because of it's speed. The Huscarl+Spammitar was even frowned upon as easymode.. Now 1 handers have faster swords and more damage.
(Edit, I suspect they keep the Kata a bit nerfed because they don't want everyone to use it.. I guess making Ninjas hasn't helped lol! Anyway.. can't we let people play like they want? I think it's way more "mood breaking" with khergit dresses everywhere.. I can accept to keep the katana slightly slightly under the cap, but not like it so obviously underpowered like now. Rather make it more expensive..)
The Elite Spammitar was always a mean beast in it's day because of it's speed. The Huscarl+Spammitar was even frowned upon as easymode.. Now 1 handers have faster swords and more damage.
weight 1.3
requirement 7
spd rtng 101
weapon length 93
swing damage 27, cut
thrust damage 33 pierce
We have a new "Swiss knife" build. Wanna' be effective? Just get a ridiculously fast one-hander, with light speed, a BIG round shield, to piss off anyone, and don't forget to bring a throwing weapon as well!Hey, last week i had such a build :mrgreen: . Aww, i have loved it when a 2hand/pole fighter tried to backpedal and got one of my daggers in the chest.
I have nothing against hybridization, but this is beginning to piss me off, when I try to charge, 3 shielders backpedal and start throwing shit at me, or they just lolturtle-facehug me.
While my pole weapons got a speed nerf, these guys got a speed buff. They became insanely fast, I can't even see their damned swings, let alone counterattacking.In turtlemode the shielder does not swing back, that is why you see no attacks. :P
One-handers can be lightning fast without a shield, I'm cool with that. But with a big ass steel shield.. it doesn't make sense.
They are effective, fast, powerful, can use a shield, can annoy everyone with easymode point-blank lolthrow kills.
Meh.
I think 1h is pretty ok at the moment, with one exception: the left to right slash. Not only is it almost impossible to see with certain types of swords (e.g. sidesword), but it also frequently 2-shots full plate users, because of headshots. Manual blocking is hard enough, so you should at least be able to see what kind of swing is coming at you.
Don't mind Urlukur even if 1H get 200 speed and 1shot everyone he will still whine about 2h/PA. He is the biggest whiner I have ever seen.
On topic:
1H+shield - pros: - shield that requires no skill to block with and protects against projectiles
- speed - 1h are the fastest weapons in the game (for comparison there is only one other weapon with matching speed, the katana)
- if they can put their shield away not even the katana can outspam them
- the best animation in the game - the left side swing that in 90% of the cases is a 1shot kill to the head, especially with pierce damage (what other build has a weapon with 33 pierce dmg on swing and 100 speed?)
- easiest gameplay, just facehug-spam to death-move to next enemy
- cons: - range (arguable, in clusterfucks less range is an advantage, you hits won't bounce)
- damage (this is arguable as there are some weapons like the 33 pierce pick that have high 1shot potential, but usually the only difference is that 1h require 2-3 hits to kill, while 2h/PA require 2 hits, but against another 2h/polearm, against a shielder even with a shield bonus weapon you need 6-7 hits to kill)
2H/Polearms - pros: - range (arguable, in clusterfucks more range=more bounce, also when a shielder hugs you your hits can bounce)
- damage (this is arguable though)
-cons: - have to manual block
- no projectile protection (and if you want a shield you must use shield skillpoints that are useless to you, compared to a 1h+shield that maximizes the benefits of shield skillpoints)
And to put it in a rock-paper-scissors way:
1h+shield is weak against cav, very strong against ranged and strong against 2H/PA
2h is weak against cav and ranged, mediocre against 1h+shield, mostly competes with other 2h/PA
PA is weak against ranged, strong against cav (they can use pike efficiently) and let's say strong against 1h+shield as the best polearms have bonus dmg vs shields
Note that I'm talking about regular battles, NOT DUELS.
But yeah, 1h+shield definetly needs more buffing, NERF 2H!!!!!11111
Right now greatswords are excellent dueling weapons which is just not fair.
How is that not fair, again? :lol:
So if you got to decide, 2h would be vulnerable to everything and their only function would be supporting the god-mode shielders that rule everything?
Well, I'm glad you don't get to decide!
"Greatswords should play support role, just like mauls etc."
Jeez Urlukur. You really have a twisted view on things.
Greatswords should play support role, just like mauls etc.
Yes, 1H+Shield must be dps, tanks and support, everything else is just for support.
i can only say that shields are breakable items, even a huscalar breaks after max 3 opponent... manual block cant harm sword/polearms
I must say the only OP thing about 1h is the uber damage overhead,wich is very quick too, and every shielder i see ends up just spamming me with those.. :rolleyes:
UrLukur. Just your way of argumentation gives a great idea why u are so unhappy with ur class.
You would be with every other class too, let me tell you that.
Know why. You simply seem too suck, you neither have an idea how to play ur class nor an constructive ideas.
Just deinstall and do youself a big favour. OMFG.
1H+shield - pros: - shield that requires no skill blah blah we get it, but we also invested some points to use those while you get to convert them into agi or w/e i think it evens outSry punisher but I got to fight you on this - on top of range as a con our shield slows us down a ton. The biggest problem I have as a shielder are the back peddling 2h/PA that can dance in and out of my reach. But I'm fine with that. Ive never one shotted any one with anything other than a face slash with the steel pick, but I do get one shotted all the time by 2h/pa, i'm cool with that as well.
- speed - 1h are the fastest weapons in the game (for comparison there is only one other weapon with matching speed, the katana) true but only since every other weapon class has been speed nerfed a bit too much I would be willing to buff these instead of nerfing 1h
- if they can put their shield away not even the katana can outspam themjust not true even with a balanced spammy I have to block against 2handers...maybe I just fail as a 1h spammer idk the problem still is back peddlers who get out of my range
- the best animation in the game - the left side swing that in 90% of the cases is a 1shot kill to the head, especially with pierce damage (what other build has a weapon with 33 pierce dmg on swing and 100 speed?) Agree this is our deadliest attack only 1 shot kill with steel pick, and thats only if its a face slash
-easiest gameplay, *just facehug-spam to death-move to next enemy*-Lol no! face hugging as a sheilder means our swords will more often than not bounce, while 2h/pa just have to look a little bit at our feet and still do damage! don't do this as a shielder. Plus one could also say its the agi whores who have the easiest game play, or the str whores, or the archery buggers, or the throwing tards...ect ect its all about perception.
- cons: - range (you hits won't bounce - I disagree most 1h swords do bounce a ton, its why I use a spammy they just don't bounce as often)
- damage
*-Slow moving*
And if your shield breaks what stops you from manual blocking? Or because you are a shielder it is your right to never have to manual block?
Maybe shielders should get autoblock, manual blocking is so unfair :shock:
^This
before I would ever support any kind of speed nerf for 1hands (they are fine the way they are imo) i would support a hp nerf to shields. Right now they last and last and last and I often don't have to manual block a single time in a round. thats why most 2h/pa users are raging.
Sounds like you can't block over heads so ofc we would use them against you. :rolleyes: If I find some one who can block left n right the next slash I try is an up slash. Maybe you should practice blocking over heads instead of whining in the forums about it?Why so angry, havent get laid ? . i just mean its pretty annoying when there is like 40% shielders of the whole infantry and everyone of them clusterfuck you with this way: right,left,right,left, right right, and then just overhead spam, and if you manage to get a hit trough, then you get another shielder on you , usually die, (i came to this concluson with my 2h char) . im really considering making a 1h..
can't we let people play like they want?
Why so angry, havent get laid ? . i just mean its pretty annoying when there is like 40% shielders of the whole infantry and everyone of them clusterfuck you with this way: right,left,right,left, right right, and then just overhead spam, and if you manage to get a hit trough, then you get another shielder on you , usually die, (i came to this concluson with my 2h char) . im really considering making a 1h..
And if your shield breaks what stops you from manual blocking? Or because you are a shielder it is your right to never have to manual block?
Maybe shielders should get autoblock, manual blocking is so unfair :shock:
Sigh, this thread is silly. So much whining from one side, met with elitist bullshit and pompous deceits from the other side (2hers).
Sorry mate, not everyone uses the Huscarl shield. I use the heater shield, knightly kite shield or elite cavalry shield and they break just about every round guaranteed. With a 7 shield skill point investment. That's 3 stats and a skill upgrade for a 2her that I don't have access too. I have to manual block all the time with a 1her but if you want to talk about FAIR then give me a 1her with more than 120 range, 98 speed and 35c/23p+ damage so I'm not put at a major disadvantage vs every 2her/polearm user in the game when I'm fighting shieldless.
No? Didn't think so. For the record manual blocking isn't some super leet skill decended from on high, delivered to us mere mortals by the gods. It's not that complicated. Just like playing a 2her/polearm user isn't that complicated. Any semi decent player with even the most rudimentary of melee ability can do far more damage on the battlefield by choosing 2h/pole instead of 1h/shield. Simply carry a rank 1 board shield and now you have every benefit shielders do, with none of the drawbacks. Hate to break it to you but 2h/pole is just as skill-less, braindead and simple as playing a 1her (and when we're without a shield, even more so than a 1her). The elitism needs to die as it's just retarded and full of misinformation.
@Urlurker: You are going way too far out their on your rants about needing a 1her buff. 1hers are fine, they really are. The only thing about 1h/shield that could use a buff would be the shields themselves, where the smaller non-huscarl shields could use more speed to account for their lessened protection/durability and make them better melee shields instead of just overlooked by the majority.
The only silly thing is that the best 1h sword is a fencing sword that doesn't fit in with the style of any good armor in the game.Yeah, for some (unknown) reason the developers did not add the beautiful Narf's 16th century Landsknecht 3/4 armor to the mod. That's why the RP-style outfit of my 1hander is the strange combination of a padded jack (a complete LOLWUT? for the 16th century), a morion, leather gloves, leather boots (another LOLWUT?), a buckler, and a side sword (sometimes I also get a pike for dealing with cav).
Even made more silly that the best shield is a viking hoplite mix shield. Since I guess for 1h weaponry has higher priority than armor... (*)Well, essentially the design is neither viking nor hoplite, but a 100% M&B fantasy (as well as a knightly kite shield, for example).
Other 2h weapons have lolstab,THEY F****ING DON'T!
I've yet to see a 1h that is harder to block than 2h, the opinion that 1h are harder to block has been around a long time, but I personally think this is just the case because most people have no experience blocking them since they just spam away.
Btw. speaking for myself what makes the sidesword so attractive isn't even its speed, it's that it's the only longsword with decent damage on both slash and thrust.Well, as for now, in the top 1h sword line you trade speed (side sword) for reach (long 1h swords). Seven more reach makes a difference.
Main reasons shields are so powerful, are throwing spam and battle lines.
(*) Fix for this would be imo simple. Buff knightly arming and nordic champions sword up to the level of sidesword, nerf sidesword, buff knightly shields and nerf huscarl shield a bit, so viking and knight choice are equal in power and adjust prices accordingly.
THEY F****ING DON'T!
I'm not happy to say that since it sounds arrogant, but if you still think they can, then l2chamber.
UrLukur's stamp of approval!
Punisher. You waste your time on obv. reta....ehm... unhappy ppl. who like spending time on useless "want 1H+Board+TacticalNukeAttached" threads.
UrLukur. Just your way of argumentation gives a great idea why u are so unhappy with ur class.
You would be with every other class too, let me tell you that.
Know why. You simply seem too suck, you neither have an idea how to play ur class nor an constructive ideas.
Just deinstall and do youself a big favour. OMFG.
@Urlurker: You are going way too far out their on your rants about needing a 1her buff. 1hers are fine, they really are. The only thing about 1h/shield that could use a buff would be the shields themselves, where the smaller non-huscarl shields could use more speed to account for their lessened protection/durability and make them better melee shields instead of just overlooked by the majority.
Everything is support. Don't put words in my mouth.
Maybe the round shields could be the slow sort, the full heaters/kites a happy medium and the short heaters/kites for the faster melee sorts?
Woah Gorath, be sensible. In this entire thread i didn't asked for 1h buff over current level
Okay reading a couple of replies here and there and the original post, I figure that this thread is kind of silly.
Both sides are arguing really extreme views of the class.
1handers want a buff on their already unbreakable shields. Frankly, any idiot with a level 4 shield skill and a pick can gallivant around and rock out even the most capable two hander.
That said, I don't mind it one bit. I die to some turtle who takes smart swings at me? Good on him, I was bested in combat. I sit back, eat my lunch and hang out for the next round. Shielders are meant to cower (I use cower for my general disdain for shields) behind their boards while other classes whale on them.
I'd give them a break, because shielders are meant to take the brunt of the damage when the battle opens. They hang out front (or are meant to) and absorb arrows for us, and tend to be the first to die when we see that maul poking out just over everyones heads.
As much as they are a bitch to kill, any capable two-hander should be able to take a shielder down with some smart tactics and good combat skill - which, incidentally, isn't handed to you by God on your first two weeks playing this game.
~(click to show/hide)
The 2hander needs to block all of the 1handers feints and normal blows correctly. The 1hander just needs to press RMB and he can't be touched.
Dear god you took the words right out of my mouth. I was thinking among the same lines but I couldn't even come close to the way you so eloquently put it. Bravo dexxta bravo!(click to show/hide)
Fight smarter. You already sound like you don't like blocking.
The 2hander needs to block all of the 1handers feints and normal blows correctly. The 1hander just needs to press RMB and he can't be touched.
Until his shield breaks or he fights someone with crushthrough. Having a shield also makes a 1 hander VERY slow, which is a good tradeoff. If a 1 hander puts away their shield, they are faster but they still have shorter range and do less damage than a 2 hander. Right now, I think things are pretty well balanced except the shields themselves could use some variation. As many have said, huscarl is the smart choice unless you pick a shield for looks.
2 Handers have longer range, are faster and do more damage. 1 Handers are slower, have shorter range but have good protection against multiple attackers. I don't see what the problem is. If you're getting spammed by a 1 hander, either his shield is away or you are WAY lower level.
Well, depending on your 1h weapon, you can still outspam someone with crushthrough. And it hardly makes you VERY slow, just slower. The fastest/best 1h swords are still frigging fast even with with a shield. Less damage is arguable, steel pick for example does fuckloads of damage, 1-2 hitting everyone. I'm not getting spammed by 1handers, though, so not sure why you mention it.
I play pure 2hander because I like the added challenge of manual blocking, but if I went for pure efficiency, atm I'd go steelpick+shield&throwing.
Excellent points
I agree with the steel pick. It is a bit fast for the stupid amounts of damage it does. I used to use it and even with 18 strength you can practically walk through the enemy team.
Outspamming someone with a crushthrough weapon is easy no matter what you're armed with. That's why smart players use it on unawares opponents. (Unless they're using that horribly OP heirloomed bar mace)
Still though, you're only really mentioned 1 weapon: The steel pick. Which I agree is a problem. Other than that, 1 handers only have a couple of really fast weapons and again, they don't do THAT much damage.
Heard of Sidesword doing insane amounts of damage (I know Siiem keeps obsessing over it... :? ) and it among some other swords (nordic champion sword mebbeh, dunno) are really fast especially when heirloomed.
Note that I'm not actually calling for any nerfs, just saying that 1h doesn't need a buff... though both 1h and 2h have some weapons that need attention, steel pick and great maul/bar mace being some examples.
I agreed with xants last post about almost everything. At least the steal pick has a basic concept behind it. A 50 pound + great maul is a basically impossible weapon to use unless your herculean strength. Im talking real life. A steel pick is a thing that puts intense amounts of power into a small area. Basically a armour piercing bodkin but hand held. Maybe small nerf for it but great maul needs alot more for a nerf than a pick cause the pick is only thing that hurts a tin can.
As it is, all the crush through weapons except the long maul are kind of broken. At least the long maul is slow as hell. If this game is going to include a mechanic that takes away control from other players, there should be serious drawbacks to its use. Being unbalanced and slightly slow isn't much of a drawback.
Yeah, as it is, you just need to block once with the great maul, then you can overhead spam and stunlock anyone until they die.
Meh, I don't really have a problem with the long maul 'cause it's so slow. I just wait for them to miss, run in, stab them a couple times and run out. They miss again, and repeat.
The problem with other crush through weapons is that they're so damn fast and their sweet spot is the exact range I need to be in to hurt them.
Not long maul, great maul. Long maul's OK.
Absolutely agree with your overall point, both sides.
You know me and have played against/beside both my 1her and 2her characters so I know you won't assume there's some lack of ability with manual blocking or other such nonsense so I have to ask you Dexxt: While the huscarl is in fact pretty much nigh unbreakable and obviously in no need of any buff whatsoever, what do you think about a speed boost to the smaller, less durable shields such as the heaters/kite shields to balance shields out a bit internally?
I know you've seen me rocking out with the small heater shields before, and know from first hand experience that they break rather quickly (but I refuse to be another huscarler).
A speed boost to the smaller shields seem a little redundant. From what I can tell of my experience fighting shielders, it's already a "I hit-you hit" dynamic with those shields. I don't see any reason for increasing the speed of the shielders, any faster and they'll be almost capable of out-spamming me (and with my build, they really shouldn't).