One-handers became too fast => Overpowered.

[Xant]

The 2hander needs to block all of the 1handers feints and normal blows correctly. The 1hander just needs to press RMB and he can't be touched.

[Dexxtaa]

The 2hander needs to block all of the 1handers feints and normal blows correctly. The 1hander just needs to press RMB and he can't be touched.

Fight smarter. You already sound like you don't like blocking.

[Noble Crassius]

(click to show/hide)

Okay reading a couple of replies here and there and the original post, I figure that this thread is kind of silly.

Both sides are arguing really extreme views of the class.

1handers want a buff on their already unbreakable shields. Frankly, any idiot with a level 4 shield skill and a pick can gallivant around and rock out even the most capable two hander.

That said, I don't mind it one bit. I die to some turtle who takes smart swings at me? Good on him, I was bested in combat. I sit back, eat my lunch and hang out for the next round. Shielders are meant to cower (I use cower for my general disdain for shields) behind their boards while other classes whale on them.

I'd give them a break, because shielders are meant to take the brunt of the damage when the battle opens. They hang out front (or are meant to) and absorb arrows for us, and tend to be the first to die when we see that maul poking out just over everyones heads.

As much as they are a bitch to kill, any capable two-hander should be able to take a shielder down with some smart tactics and good combat skill - which, incidentally, isn't handed to you by God on your first two weeks playing this game.

~

Moving on to the two-handers: As a two hander myself, I think you guys are elitist pricks. "Elite class?" Oh please. You guys are just interested in becoming battlefield gods without putting any work in yourself. All you want to do is get a disgusting advantage over other classes by way of nerfing them, which is highly dishonorable.

If you can't spam a shielder, you whinge, if you get hit by an arrow, you whinge, if you die without engaging anyone, you whinge. Get over yourselves.

Whenever I start whinging about arrows and projectiles, everyone tells me to get a shield. Of course, there's sense in that. I say that I don't like shields (that being true), but also my plans for my build use every skill point available - so sadly, no points for shields.

If you guys don't like getting shot or getting shielder hugged, play smarter. It sounds to me like you guys think that your armor grants you immunity to any projectile.

Speaking of projectiles, nerf throwing. I feel like I'm fighting in a horizontal rain 50% of the time.

Dear god you took the words right out of my mouth. I was thinking among the same lines but I couldn't even come close to the way you so eloquently put it. Bravo dexxta bravo!

Troll points + good or bad?

[Dexxtaa]

lol Thank you, Crassius.

Just trying to articulate what I'm sure is on all our minds.

[Xant]

Fight smarter. You already sound like you don't like blocking.

Err, what?

[rustyspoon]

The 2hander needs to block all of the 1handers feints and normal blows correctly. The 1hander just needs to press RMB and he can't be touched.

Until his shield breaks or he fights someone with crushthrough. Having a shield also makes a 1 hander VERY slow, which is a good tradeoff. If a 1 hander puts away their shield, they are faster but they still have shorter range and do less damage than a 2 hander. Right now, I think things are pretty well balanced except the shields themselves could use some variation. As many have said, huscarl is the smart choice unless you pick a shield for looks.

2 Handers have longer range, are faster and do more damage. 1 Handers are slower, have shorter range but have good protection against multiple attackers. I don't see what the problem is. If you're getting spammed by a 1 hander, either his shield is away or you are WAY lower level.

[Xant]

Until his shield breaks or he fights someone with crushthrough. Having a shield also makes a 1 hander VERY slow, which is a good tradeoff. If a 1 hander puts away their shield, they are faster but they still have shorter range and do less damage than a 2 hander. Right now, I think things are pretty well balanced except the shields themselves could use some variation. As many have said, huscarl is the smart choice unless you pick a shield for looks.

2 Handers have longer range, are faster and do more damage. 1 Handers are slower, have shorter range but have good protection against multiple attackers. I don't see what the problem is. If you're getting spammed by a 1 hander, either his shield is away or you are WAY lower level.

Well, depending on your 1h weapon, you can still outspam someone with crushthrough. And it hardly makes you VERY slow, just slower. The fastest/best 1h swords are still frigging fast even with with a shield. Less damage is arguable, steel pick for example does fuckloads of damage, 1-2 hitting everyone. I'm not getting spammed by 1handers, though, so not sure why you mention it.

I play pure 2hander because I like the added challenge of manual blocking, but if I went for pure efficiency, atm I'd go steelpick+shield&throwing.

[rustyspoon]

Well, depending on your 1h weapon, you can still outspam someone with crushthrough. And it hardly makes you VERY slow, just slower. The fastest/best 1h swords are still frigging fast even with with a shield. Less damage is arguable, steel pick for example does fuckloads of damage, 1-2 hitting everyone. I'm not getting spammed by 1handers, though, so not sure why you mention it.

I play pure 2hander because I like the added challenge of manual blocking, but if I went for pure efficiency, atm I'd go steelpick+shield&throwing.

I agree with the steel pick. It is a bit fast for the stupid amounts of damage it does. I used to use it and even with 18 strength you can practically walk through the enemy team.

Outspamming someone with a crushthrough weapon is easy no matter what you're armed with. That's why smart players use it on unawares opponents. (Unless they're using that horribly OP heirloomed bar mace)

Still though, you're only really mentioned 1 weapon: The steel pick. Which I agree is a problem. Other than that, 1 handers only have a couple of really fast weapons and again, they don't do THAT much damage.

[Gorath]

Excellent points

Absolutely agree with your overall point, both sides.
You know me and have played against/beside both my 1her and 2her characters so I know you won't assume there's some lack of ability with manual blocking or other such nonsense so I have to ask you Dexxt:  While the huscarl is in fact pretty much nigh unbreakable and obviously in no need of any buff whatsoever, what do you think about a speed boost to the smaller, less durable shields such as the heaters/kite shields to balance shields out a bit internally?

I know you've seen me rocking out with the small heater shields before, and know from first hand experience that they break rather quickly (but I refuse to be another huscarler).

[Xant]

I agree with the steel pick. It is a bit fast for the stupid amounts of damage it does. I used to use it and even with 18 strength you can practically walk through the enemy team.

Outspamming someone with a crushthrough weapon is easy no matter what you're armed with. That's why smart players use it on unawares opponents. (Unless they're using that horribly OP heirloomed bar mace)

Still though, you're only really mentioned 1 weapon: The steel pick. Which I agree is a problem. Other than that, 1 handers only have a couple of really fast weapons and again, they don't do THAT much damage.

Heard of Sidesword doing insane amounts of damage (I know Siiem keeps obsessing over it...  ) and it among some other swords (nordic champion sword mebbeh, dunno) are really fast especially when heirloomed.

Note that I'm not actually calling for any nerfs, just saying that 1h doesn't need a buff... though both 1h and 2h have some weapons that need attention, steel pick and great maul/bar mace being some examples.

[Centurion]

Lol xant im a steel pick huscarl shield and spear thrower 

Its like you know.

Well 1 handers are definitely not overpowered. And not to hard for people to block. Its easy to stay out of our range if you practice and if you can't block well buy a shield. Im a average manual blocker so im not helpless without a shield. Also people beds to make balanced builds not all strength all agility the more balanced you are the longer youl usually last unless your very good at blocking. Don't nerf us nerf the freaking all strength hammer spamming builds that can break through everything. Get rid of 99% chance of crush through but make em faster. Make it like a 50/ 50 chance. In some battles or sieges I can see one guy who's just up down kill up down kill up down kill. Its bullshit. Its unrealistic spam because three no recovery time for people who get hit. I can usually deal with hammers myself cause im speedy and know how to fight em. But full plate armor great maul guy going for level 5 peasant. Not fair at all peasants stand no chance. At least when they fight me they can get a hit on my shield.

[rustyspoon]

Heard of Sidesword doing insane amounts of damage (I know Siiem keeps obsessing over it...  ) and it among some other swords (nordic champion sword mebbeh, dunno) are really fast especially when heirloomed.

Note that I'm not actually calling for any nerfs, just saying that 1h doesn't need a buff... though both 1h and 2h have some weapons that need attention, steel pick and great maul/bar mace being some examples.

I don't think they need a buff either. I think things are fine as is other than a couple weapons on both sides here and there. The only thing that 1 handers REALLY need is a variation in shields. As it is, shield speed doesn't make a damn bit of difference. It would be nice to have the option of taking a small fast shield over a large slow one.

[Centurion]

I agreed with xants  last post about almost everything. At least the steal pick has a basic concept behind it. A 50 pound +  great maul is a basically impossible weapon to use unless your herculean strength. Im talking real life. A steel pick is a thing that puts intense amounts of power into a small area. Basically a armour piercing bodkin but hand held. Maybe small nerf for it but great maul needs alot more for a nerf than a pick cause the pick is only thing that hurts a tin can.

[rustyspoon]

I agreed with xants  last post about almost everything. At least the steal pick has a basic concept behind it. A 50 pound +  great maul is a basically impossible weapon to use unless your herculean strength. Im talking real life. A steel pick is a thing that puts intense amounts of power into a small area. Basically a armour piercing bodkin but hand held. Maybe small nerf for it but great maul needs alot more for a nerf than a pick cause the pick is only thing that hurts a tin can.

As it is, all the crush through weapons except the long maul are kind of broken. At least the long maul is slow as hell. If this game is going to include a mechanic that takes away control from other players, there should be serious drawbacks to its use. Being unbalanced and slightly slow isn't much of a drawback.

[Centurion]

More shields would be good. Im sure there are more then is on cRPG. Bring in more equipment from more time periods. It will make it more fun to see a guy with a hoplite shield facing a dude with a mongol buckler  just a idea lol. More weapons and armor would be cool. More throwing weapons and 1 handers/polearms are needed.