cRPG

Strategus => Strategus General Discussion => Topic started by: chadz on September 04, 2011, 11:03:04 am

Title: Strategus item&gold reset - new game variables
Post by: chadz on September 04, 2011, 11:03:04 am
Due to a bug and a few new gameplay elements, strategus will reset items and gold of every strat char and strat fief. So we don't fuck people over who are currently doing something, we're announcing it here so you know when it will happen.

Also, gold gain from crpg will be changed: you get your multi -1, so if you have a multi of 4 in crpg, you get 3 strategus gold.

probably a few more features and bugfixes, depends on how much time i can bring up.

gold and items reset -

troops now cost 2.5 gold per day (before: 1)
within fiefs, 1 per day
when you run out of gold, you lose (1-0.987) troops per hour(before: [1-0.8])
income from crpg is now multi-1 instead of gold/20
everyone pays wages, independent of troop size
i hope i can add some more features thursday

Now that I have a bit more time:

- why are you wiping gold and items?
first, it's not really a good solution, i think we can all agree. A full wipe would be fairer. However, a full wipe is currently not possible.
Also, the reason for the wipe is not (only) the current bug. I actually planned item&gold wipe before, and now that this happened it's a perfect situation to combine it.

- so why are you wiping it!!?!!
because of a new game mechanic. The new gold income is lowered drastically (before: crpggold/20, now: crpggold/50-1). the reason is that gold should be, for now, earned in strategus, not by grinding. People kicked everyone out of their fief because they gave a rats ass about the money, they wanted the troops. making it unplayable for people without fiefs.

- why should that change?
by lowering the grind income, people have to consider how to make money within strategus. Which means working, raiding, fief visitor fee, etc. Overall, gold will be lower, which also means lower tier equipment and less troops. Troop cost will be increased too - probably heavily, whatever that means, we'll see.

- why is a full wipe not possible?
because it would take too long to see any kind of results. right now is the perfect stage to test things for the gameplay. and i cant wipe strategus any time i'm testing new values. it usually goes like this: when possible, change on the fly. when that would substantially make it unfair for certain groups, do a semi wipe. when it's broken beyond fixability, do a full wipe.
doing no wipe now would mean that those who stashed cash up to now would be really unreachable by those who would have to start getting gold now. doing a full wipe would mean it would take months to see how the values turn out. and they will probably be adapted soon again, hopefully(and probably) without the need for a semi wipe or a full wipe.

-why aren't you giving people resources to test stuff?
it's not just about the battles, those are working very good, i think. what i'm trying to tinker with now is the amount of gold(=items) and troops people can and want to bring to skirmishes. i can only test that with a semi-real world, like we have in strategus. giving or taking resources would totally influence this balance.

-why aren't you testing stuff before releasing.
the entire QA department is on vacation. on a more serious note, you cannot test strategus with a small team, and I currently don't have the time to set up a proper test world. there is only the real strategus. I know many of you think this is the worst strategus EVER. Bug ridden, unplayable, you never know what bug or exploit will screw your entire plans over. From a dev point of view, I can say this is the best round ever. Every bug found is one less in the next strategus. And damn we've fixed a lot of bugs. Lots of code was rewritten in the backend, and if it goes on like this, strategus will be (breaking)bugfree soon. And then you will understand why the current round is so important.

Some of you get annoyed by bugs, you think "wtf? another bug? learn2code noob!". But the way I see it is actually: "yay, another bug found! means one less to worry about next round!". Try thinking of it this way: there's x number of bugs in strategus. Once all are found, the game is bugfree. So every reported bug brings the game forward, not backwards. also, please, report bugs in the strategus issue forum with a descriptive title. It often happens that the entire community knows a bug apart from me, because people talk about it on TS or skype or whatever, but no one tells me, or just drops a line in irc which will get overlooked 80% of the time. If it's not in the strategus issue forum, chances are I don't know about it. Many thanks to the guys who keep reporting bugs, it's really appreciated. Special thanks to kesh here who gave many detailed reports so far, and the more detailed the report is, the faster the bug is fixed.

Long story short: if you're just here to play and can't accept setbacks, better sit out and wait for some time. There will be a real strategus up, and it will be as polished as possible. I know it's sometimes frustrating, I thank you for dealing with this - and me. I'm trying to put as much work into this game as possible, and I am not really a person with a lot of free time. For all those who are willing to sit this through - I thank you very much for your participation, I really rely on it and your continuous bug reports. They not only help, they are the columns of my work. Without it, strat would never be in a playable state. I promise I will try to keep the current strat as playable as possible for you, and the next strat as awesome as possible.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Ganner on September 04, 2011, 11:13:22 am
Good to see those who benifited from the item dupe won't get to use them!
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Matey on September 04, 2011, 11:20:08 am
just wipe all of strat then. this is going to be.. very crazy.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Gristle on September 04, 2011, 11:22:04 am
I think this war is about to get very interesting!
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Classical on September 04, 2011, 11:42:56 am
So wait, because you added a bug, by fixing a bug, every clan that has continued with this beta has to suffer (Every clan that has had a clan retreat on them)? Also where the fuck was this attitude when a bunch of clans got hacked due to a security exploit within the Strategus database, none of this is logical.

I'm seriously questioning whether you're either bipolar, or a teenager, or you could just be that fucking stupid.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Darkkarma on September 04, 2011, 11:44:26 am
RIP Zealot.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: ABCF on September 04, 2011, 11:52:14 am
Can we set up accounts outside of Calradia that will not be affected by the reset?  I'm staging a cRPGleaks campaign in GARAGAMOSIS across the sea, would like to have some chump change while the pleebs rebuild.

PM me with serious response, please.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Snickers on September 04, 2011, 11:54:27 am
This would be very unfair to the people that were actually winning legit battles *cough*cough NorthAmericans. Can you possibly remove 90% of the equipment from every one. TBH if your going to have a item wipe, I'd rather have a full wipe and start from scratch. With this wipe, some clans with the upper hand ATM will lose that and become on the bottom.


The people who went on a campaign, where they took out many foes and required loot from them, would  have lost their troops for nothing.

I say ban those who exploited it, and leave the rest who won legit battles.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: PhantomZero on September 04, 2011, 12:01:31 pm
Would it be possible to give gold based on troop size? I think many will lose thousands to upkeep, especially those without access to a high-paying town. Maybe better to do a troop wipe as well?
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Snickers on September 04, 2011, 12:08:50 pm
Look at the comments, nobody is happy, is there a better solution to this bug.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Lars on September 04, 2011, 12:09:05 pm
Sounds good, but if we loose all the gold ,how can we afford troops upkeep? Are we gonna loose also our troops?
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Erasmas on September 04, 2011, 12:09:13 pm
Well,

At first I truly thought that it is a deliberate devs' action to spice things up in Strategus, as the loots from sieges on our own castles we really great, but were not "a multiplier of existing stuff"; it was just a lot of eq that defenders had. But the yesterdays' siege on Dramug convinced me it is a bug, as the loot was completely crazy. We lost some stuff in this battle, but at the same time we got some pieces of eq in the amounts that even the defenders did not have, without any deeper logic. Again, I am not even sure if it is a multiplier of anything, and it surely does not refer to all eq items.

So:

As much as my heart bleeds saying that :D, the fix is necessary. The current situation would actually lead to the inflation of eq in a very short time. I am not sure if wiping all gold and eq is fair, or smart, as this will hit players in in unequal manner. Moreover there was too little money in Strat before, looting changed it, now it is going to be event worse unless there will be a new method of earning.

But again, dear devs, the current situation, the bug, as you call it, gave us a lot of action in Strat. Motivation to fight  :D As I suggested here:

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,12775.0.html

please fix this in the manner that will give factions that decide to run battles and sieges (in particular) something to fight for, as castles (and I guess cities as well) really become useless after being conquered. If the winner could loot 100% of defenders eq, now, that would keep Strat alive and running...  Leaving some gold to the existing troop is also a smart idea as troops need money to exist, so stripping all gold would lead to further deterioration of everyone and stagnation for some time.

I also look forward to this:

and a few new gameplay elements
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Classical on September 04, 2011, 12:11:04 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Tanreall on September 04, 2011, 12:16:21 pm
Bow down to LLJK's ~* superior posting*~


Now to comment on the subject at hand.



Welp
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Gingerpussy on September 04, 2011, 12:26:29 pm
Hurrah a reset. anyway only concern is our troops that will vanish in thin air due to 0 gold on many players.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Cheap_Shot on September 04, 2011, 12:27:22 pm
I've never been lied to by a dog in a suit.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Bjarky on September 04, 2011, 12:32:09 pm
so it will be tuesday 11pm CET, right?
yeah the gold thingy will be a pain, but i think chadzy will figure something out thats not to extreme to code.
could be troops upkeep gets more fluid or something else bla bla bla....
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Gingerpussy on September 04, 2011, 12:34:50 pm
Well im happy we have some time to use up all the gold :D
and basically its almost a troop wipe as well, due to ppl will loose some or all of there troops.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Rev_zaffa on September 04, 2011, 12:39:39 pm
Just reset strat then. The partial wipe will kind of screw all non-holding owners over quite a bit, especially those who have been saving up gold for some time.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Erasmas on September 04, 2011, 12:42:13 pm
Another question - will AI locations loose part of their gold as well? Cause they will be invincible for quite a long time with average castle spending 1mil gold on 4,5k troops atm, and its gonna be even worse with time...
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: chadz on September 04, 2011, 01:01:36 pm
You will get enough gold to upkeep your troops for 2 days
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: PhantomZero on September 04, 2011, 01:22:31 pm
You will get enough gold to upkeep your troops for 2 days

Thank you.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: 3ABP on September 04, 2011, 01:23:33 pm
If you have the DateBase transactions logs (transaction sequence) - all those buggy equipment can be easy founded and deleted.
Manually, yes. But for last 1-2 weeks there were not more than 50-100 really big battles, which could really affect on equipment bug benefits.

Or even easier way (worser, but much easier) - just remove all equipment gained in last 2 weeks from the battles.

1 SQL query to find a transactions (buggy equipment transactions) that did after the battles (by attackers\defenders UID and a battle time).
1 more to find a list and quantity of equipment  before battle and after battle(--\\--)
1 more to fix it (just update a "current" list and quantity of equipment to the "before battle" state minus "loosing tickets in the battle").
And all.

Or really - wipe all then (fiefs\armies too).
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Erasmas on September 04, 2011, 01:38:16 pm
That would effectively be a rollback ...
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: HarunYahya on September 04, 2011, 02:02:37 pm
Sigh...no constant fun from strat...either close it, rollback or wipe do not let people have fun !
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Sir_Ironlake on September 04, 2011, 02:03:29 pm
its a BETA

dont play if you dont want stuff to go bad, be wiped, be fixed, be experimented etc.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: epoch on September 04, 2011, 02:05:56 pm
You will get enough gold to upkeep your troops for 2 days

WOW... thats oddly just enough time for Druhzina to make it back to their towns... how convenient for them hu?
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Cicero on September 04, 2011, 02:06:21 pm
Really enough this is getting annoying.You are waiting this bug to change for 2 weeks than you just telling we will delete everything.What are you thinking about yourself ? Are you god ? Like u create everything so we need to bow you ?

We are trying to play your mod but you seem to doesnt really need of it.Everytime short announcements like guys im doing this if u like or dislike.Always you want us to solve what it is.Just give information its not hard.Did we ever say something about chadz cant even play his own mod ? Like did i ever try to tell you how to block ? .Try to be kind against your community we are not slaves , we are giving our time for this.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: HarunYahya on September 04, 2011, 02:07:44 pm
Seems like it'll stay as beta forever ...
The idea of playing smooth , bug-free strat keep me playing...
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Gristle on September 04, 2011, 02:14:21 pm
Like it or not, the Gear & Gold Nuke is coming. Imagine factions barely holding on to a fraction of the troops they have, with no gear to outfit what they have left.

Quote from: Albert Einstein
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Matey on September 04, 2011, 02:18:47 pm
Looks like Strat wars are about to turn into this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMmn8bisMxI&feature=related
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Candiru on September 04, 2011, 02:25:23 pm
I hope this will fix my strategus character being gone.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: chadz on September 04, 2011, 02:29:38 pm
Feel free to offer a suitable alternative within 2 days :)

I can't see one, tbh
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Cicero on September 04, 2011, 02:31:19 pm
Feel free to offer a suitable alternative within 2 days :)

I can't see one, tbh
Did you ever read what we write here ?
If you have the DateBase transactions logs (transaction sequence) - all those buggy equipment can be easy founded and deleted.
Manually, yes. But for last 1-2 weeks there were not more than 50-100 really big battles, which could really affect on equipment bug benefits.

Or even easier way (worser, but much easier) - just remove all equipment gained in last 2 weeks from the battles.

1 SQL query to find a transactions (buggy equipment transactions) that did after the battles (by attackers\defenders UID and a battle time).
1 more to find a list and quantity of equipment  before battle and after battle(--\\--)
1 more to fix it (just update a "current" list and quantity of equipment to the "before battle" state minus "loosing tickets in the battle").
And all.

Or really - wipe all then (fiefs\armies too).
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: 22nd_Hawk_Cmdr_Harlequin on September 04, 2011, 02:37:39 pm
Umadbro? So who farmed troops will have huge buff, who got fiefs will get huge buff, the rest is screwed.
Rofl  :lol:
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Keshian on September 04, 2011, 02:42:32 pm
Feel free to offer a suitable alternative within 2 days :)

I can't see one, tbh

Actually with  a completely new way of making gold and new elements limiting production, the absolute best solution would be a complete wipe.  Neutral village battles will actually be a challenge this time around and therefore more enjoyable.  The giant mega-alliances would dissolve and with such significant changes it would completely shift the dynamic of the game giving more power to smaller clans.  I really think this scenario fits for a full wipe. 

I really enjoyed this round, but this is an alpha and such a major change would actually make it more enjoyable to do a full wipe as already taken fiefs would not skew balance, because fiefs like castles that help with production wont be owned en masse by some and not at all by others and would become much more difficult to take under the new scenario.  It would be a balanced solution and I personally would find it very interesting seeing how such new features work in early game and how they need to be tweaked in such a situation, as this is the purpose - to test new features and this could likely need some tweaking based on the early game development.  Overall, the entire game dynamic has shifted and become an essentially new concept with strategy so all stages of the game need to be tested, not just when all villages are taken and a 1/3rd of the castles.  No one that I know would not keep playing after a wipe as strategus is too much fun and a more difficult early game will actually be really enjoyable.

Not sure if changes will be balanced for both early and late stage game and a full wipe would be a great opportunity to test this.  To be honest as much funa s I was having with all these battles it was already gettign a little stale with the current gold/troops dynamic as it turns out from waht we heard that the UIF still exists and the entire other side of the map had to ally to counter it and it was really leading nowhere.  Kind of curious if people will really be so fixed that they will carry alliances over from 2 strategus ago?  Would probably make it more of a free-for-all with a full wipe where maybe we can get rid of some of the fixed territorial claims ideas leftover from the original strategus and new dynamic diplomatic relations will be formed.

so essentially - FULL WIPE.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Gristle on September 04, 2011, 02:52:09 pm
Full wipe! Tear it all down!
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Snickers on September 04, 2011, 02:53:22 pm
Feel free to offer a suitable alternative within 2 days :)

I can't see one, tbh

Wipe the entire strat.

 What your doing right now is effectively removing any standing which smaller clans might have or have gained.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Kalp on September 04, 2011, 02:54:45 pm
.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: 3ABP on September 04, 2011, 03:03:40 pm
its a BETA

dont play if you dont want stuff to go bad, be wiped, be fixed, be experimented etc.
If we will not play - who will play?
Who will build Empires, planning smth, developing strategies, tactics etc?
Random players? Cos in this case there is no point to do smth meaningful. Senseless.
Just collect troops\goolds and random attack random target. Just for fun.
How this type of the game helps to make a game better?

Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: HarunYahya on September 04, 2011, 03:13:29 pm
Close strat for a week/month or another year.
Make your "beta testers" test it and report all bugs it has , solve all shits implement new buggy features test again and when it is READY host it to your community.We are here to play a game not to test . If we are all testers why do you have "beta testers" ? Everytime we work hard a bug fucks it all....
I got bored of dev's announcements such as "Yes , but its on beta stage either play it or gtfo."
Test it then release it .We spent lots of time on this game , that shouldn't be the outcome....
Btw i realized something all posters who want "Full wipe" are already lost or losing factions of current strat , really surprising eh ?
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Snickers on September 04, 2011, 03:26:40 pm
Close strat for a week/month or another year.
Make your "beta testers" test it and report all bugs it has , solve all shits implement new buggy features test again and when it is READY host it to your community.We are here to play a game not to test . If we are all testers why do you have "beta testers" ? Everytime we work hard a bug fucks it all....
I got bored of dev's announcements such as "Yes , but its on beta stage either play it or gtfo."
Test it then release it .We spent lots of time on this game , that shouldn't be the outcome....
Btw i realized something all posters who want "Full wipe" are already lost or losing factions of current strat , really surprising eh ?

You sure have high hopes for Warband, games usually get outdated and no new members join.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: chadz on September 04, 2011, 03:31:41 pm
Close strat for a week/month or another year.
Make your "beta testers" test it and report all bugs it has

YOU are my beta testers! If you want a semi finished project, wait till you see a strategus link in your crpg page. This round serves it purpose perfectly, lots of bugs got found that a closed beta could never have.

Sorry, but it's not my fault you found the link to strategus beta in some topic that stated that its a very early version and ignored that statement.

Why de hell do you tell me to take it down, when all you have to do is not fucking open the page if it bothers you. What a self entitled snob....
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: okiN on September 04, 2011, 03:37:46 pm
Make your "beta testers" test it and report all bugs it has , solve all shits implement new buggy features test again and when it is READY host it to your community.We are here to play a game not to test . If we are all testers why do you have "beta testers" ? Everytime we work hard a bug fucks it all....

Yes, because the dozen or so beta testers we have can definitely simulate a full Strategus game and discover all bugs and exploits. Come on, now, at least try to be sensible. chadz has already said many times that anyone playing Strategus right now should consider himself a tester.

Btw i realized something all posters who want "Full wipe" are already lost or losing factions of current strat , really surprising eh ?

I didn't realize Union were among the losers. Live and learn.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: chadz on September 04, 2011, 03:41:37 pm
Did you ever read what we write here ?
Not possible
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: kinngrimm on September 04, 2011, 03:47:35 pm
Feel free to offer a suitable alternative within 2 days :)

I can't see one, tbh
+1 Total Wipe

or if you have some other major change soon to come(not more then 2 weeks), like separating NA/EU, or something else like that.
Then i would suggest, correct the bug and let it go as it is now(no wipe at all), till you have the next major change ready.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: 3ABP on September 04, 2011, 03:52:00 pm
Then may be (if it's beta test) we do not need to every time sit down on the back and gater the troops for the months?
May be to test some other stages\sides of the game instead a gathering troops spending months to collect them?
Just give some amount troops to each, just random assign a fiefs and see other sides of game.
Cos 99% of Stragegus is waiting and doing nothing (except forum\diplomatic games).
And if it's ok for final version, so for the beta-test it's not correct.

For beta test beta tester have Use Cases to test.

For example  - if dev's need to "test battles" - then why just not create battles and just allow players
to apply and see.
Or just gift 10.000-100.000 troops to each factions and see a battles. Every day. Many battles.
So much results for testing and analyzing.
Why not to do this?

Right now we testing only one thing - how to play Strategus essentially not playing Strategus (in fact).
We found many other things to do while "playing" Strategus. Thx the God ^) - there is cRPG and other games.

One more time - testing not means to play full game from the start to the end. Full. Long.
Many many times from the start to the end. Even if first half of the game is already tested - you need to play it again and again.
Testing means - test needed\necessary functionality. Need to test battles - let's test battles - give free troops or create battles.
Need to test caravans - give free caravans to us and we will test it very well.
Etc

I don't understand why many peoples must spend real life to gain a things (like gold\troops\etc) and test them, what can be taken in 1 minute by dev's decision.
Why???
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Merten on September 04, 2011, 04:03:05 pm
+1 Total Wipe

or if you have some other major change soon to come(not more then 2 weeks), like separating NA/EU, or something else like that.
Then i would suggest, correct the bug and let it go as it is now(no wipe at all), till you have the next major change ready.

/sign
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: kinngrimm on September 04, 2011, 04:09:25 pm
...
Just give some amount troops to each, just random assign a fiefs and see other sides of game.
...
definitly this + 10000000

this would be so much fun to see, how random players have to interact with their claims, clans spread out all over the map,
and perhaps this then helps that finally clans see it is not about their claims in the last strat reset, that they can survive anywhere as long they stick together.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: HarunYahya on September 04, 2011, 04:10:51 pm
I didn't realize Union were among the losers. Live and learn.
We are reading different topics i think.
YOU are my beta testers! If you want a semi finished project, wait till you see a strategus link in your crpg page. This round serves it purpose perfectly, lots of bugs got found that a closed beta could never have.

Sorry, but it's not my fault you found the link to strategus beta in some topic that stated that its a very early version and ignored that statement.

Why de hell do you tell me to take it down, when all you have to do is not fucking open the page if it bothers you. What a self entitled snob....

The process doesn't feel like testing.
We spent weeks to test a castle siege, we gonna spend few weeks more to experience a city siege ...
If it is about testing , we could simulate battles like 3ABP suggested.
The thing you are doing is like giving free ice-cream to childeren and when they get poisoned and died telling judge on court "But i gave them those for free ! They could ignore me and deny my free ice-cream offer !"
We , nerds are childeren , you are the evil ice-cream guy,ice-cream is strategus in this case.
I am not telling you what to do .You asked for suggestions, i suggested my opinions as you wanted .Waiting lots of factions to produce troops / gold to simulate battles and reveal bugs is waste of time indeed,open strat for your "CHOSEN" beta testers and simulate every damn possible buggy situation  , after you think it is clear release it to community.It sounds more positive then current situation imo.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: okiN on September 04, 2011, 04:17:17 pm
We are reading different topics i think.
Or really - wipe all then (fiefs\armies too).
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Cepeshi on September 04, 2011, 04:30:43 pm
Am i the only one who realizes that on x1 you do not get any strat gold from cRPG?
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: HarunYahya on September 04, 2011, 04:32:53 pm
(click to show/hide)
Am i the only one who realizes that on x1 you do not get any strat gold from cRPG?
lol there will be lots of cudgel vs pitchfork battles next weeks...
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Blondin on September 04, 2011, 04:40:06 pm
Am i the only one who realizes that on x1 you do not get any strat gold from cRPG?

Yeah, but on x2, you will win the entire crpg gold, not only 1/5 or 1/10 (didn't remember exact number).


Imo a total wipe is always better than a partial wipe, but Imo the best solution is just to keep all as it is.

There was plenty of bugs, exploits and even hack, we never did a rollback or a wipe, why now?


Edit :"we never did a rollback or a wipe" in strat v2
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: PointBlank9 on September 04, 2011, 04:42:56 pm
With a reset, the people in the Drz vs fcc war just won't want to go on after all we just did, I know I won't want to. Either completely wipe, Or I guess people who don't want to go on, just stop playing until a new version of strat comes.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Tot. on September 04, 2011, 04:43:02 pm
we never did a rollback or a wipe

 :lol:
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Keshian on September 04, 2011, 04:43:49 pm
Yeah, but on x2, you will win the entire crpg gold, not only 1/5 or 1/10 (didn't remember exact number).

From the sounds of how it works it will be 1 gold at x2, 2 gold a ticka t x3, 3 gold at x4, adn 4 gold at x5.  Probably changing gold production on strategus too, so essentially it gold will become very very scarce, but you may be able to actually manufacture equipment in fiefs now.  Full wipe would make some sense, especially for the smaller landless clans.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Lt_Anders on September 04, 2011, 04:58:55 pm
From the sounds of how it works it will be 1 gold at x2, 2 gold a ticka t x3, 3 gold at x4, adn 4 gold at x5.  Probably changing gold production on strategus too, so essentially it gold will become very very scarce, but you may be able to actually manufacture equipment in fiefs now.  Full wipe would make some sense, especially for the smaller landless clans.

Naw why don't you just wipe the gold/equip from everyone who HAS a fief? The fiefless factions keep everything they have.  Want to turn strat into a random warbling, easist way.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Thovex on September 04, 2011, 05:40:03 pm
Both is fine, full wipe or 'half' wipe, we all knew it was coming soon any way.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Thucydides on September 04, 2011, 05:47:02 pm
full wipe please, My clan has been stockpiling gold  because we are landless and no access to troops. We were hoping to use the gold at a later date to buy a fief or more troops. Now the wipe would fuck us over disporportionally compared to the other factions, so please full wipe.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Kalam on September 04, 2011, 05:50:42 pm
Both is fine, full wipe or 'half' wipe, we all knew it was coming soon any way.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: a_bear_irl on September 04, 2011, 06:32:37 pm
Why not a proportional reduction of gold/items? Keep enough gear to equip your troops up to a max of 3 times over and enough gold to pay for upkeep for a a week or so. Aside from people who got "hit" by the retreating bug, nobody I've seen is running around with a ton of items relative to their troop numbers.

This way it doesn't really screw anyone over and clans who didn't benefit from the retreat bug shouldn't be hit too hard.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: SPQR on September 04, 2011, 06:53:45 pm
From the sounds of how it works it will be 1 gold at x2, 2 gold a ticka t x3, 3 gold at x4, adn 4 gold at x5.  Probably changing gold production on strategus too, so essentially it gold will become very very scarce, but you may be able to actually manufacture equipment in fiefs now.  Full wipe would make some sense, especially for the smaller landless clans.

Long term, unless Working in fiefs is removed won't this mean that landless clans are going to be completely absolutely unable to get enough money for anything once all the fiefs are taken? Most clans do not allow random clanless players into their fiefs.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: chadz on September 04, 2011, 07:31:45 pm
Now that I have a bit more time:

- why are you wiping gold and items?
first, it's not really a good solution, i think we can all agree. A full wipe would be fairer. However, a full wipe is currently not possible.
Also, the reason for the wipe is not (only) the current bug. I actually planned item&gold wipe before, and now that this happened it's a perfect situation to combine it.

- so why are you wiping it!!?!!
because of a new game mechanic. The new gold income is lowered drastically (before: crpggold/20, now: crpggold/50-1). the reason is that gold should be, for now, earned in strategus, not by grinding. People kicked everyone out of their fief because they gave a rats ass about the money, they wanted the troops. making it unplayable for people without fiefs.

- why should that change?
by lowering the grind income, people have to consider how to make money within strategus. Which means working, raiding, fief visitor fee, etc. Overall, gold will be lower, which also means lower tier equipment and less troops. Troop cost will be increased too - probably heavily, whatever that means, we'll see.

- why is a full wipe not possible?
because it would take too long to see any kind of results. right now is the perfect stage to test things for the gameplay. and i cant wipe strategus any time i'm testing new values. it usually goes like this: when possible, change on the fly. when that would substantially make it unfair for certain groups, do a semi wipe. when it's broken beyond fixability, do a full wipe.
doing no wipe now would mean that those who stashed cash up to now would be really unreachable by those who would have to start getting gold now. doing a full wipe would mean it would take months to see how the values turn out. and they will probably be adapted soon again, hopefully(and probably) without the need for a semi wipe or a full wipe.

-why aren't you giving people resources to test stuff?
it's not just about the battles, those are working very good, i think. what i'm trying to tinker with now is the amount of gold(=items) and troops people can and want to bring to skirmishes. i can only test that with a semi-real world, like we have in strategus. giving or taking resources would totally influence this balance.

-why aren't you testing stuff before releasing.
the entire QA department is on vacation. on a more serious note, you cannot test strategus with a small team, and I currently don't have the time to set up a proper test world. there is only the real strategus. I know many of you think this is the worst strategus EVER. Bug ridden, unplayable, you never know what bug or exploit will screw your entire plans over. From a dev point of view, I can say this is the best round ever. Every bug found is one less in the next strategus. And damn we've fixed a lot of bugs. Lots of code was rewritten in the backend, and if it goes on like this, strategus will be (breaking)bugfree soon. And then you will understand why the current round is so important.

Some of you get annoyed by bugs, you think "wtf? another bug? learn2code noob!". But the way I see it is actually: "yay, another bug found! means one less to worry about next round!". Try thinking of it this way: there's x number of bugs in strategus. Once all are found, the game is bugfree. So every reported bug brings the game forward, not backwards. also, please, report bugs in the strategus issue forum with a descriptive title. It often happens that the entire community knows a bug apart from me, because people talk about it on TS or skype or whatever, but no one tells me, or just drops a line in irc which will get overlooked 80% of the time. If it's not in the strategus issue forum, chances are I don't know about it. Many thanks to the guys who keep reporting bugs, it's really appreciated. Special thanks to kesh here who gave many detailed reports so far, and the more detailed the report is, the faster the bug is fixed.

Long story short: if you're just here to play and can't accept setbacks, better sit out and wait for some time. There will be a real strategus up, and it will be as polished as possible. I know it's sometimes frustrating, I thank you for dealing with this - and me. I'm trying to put as much work into this game as possible, and I am not really a person with a lot of free time. For all those who are willing to sit this through - I thank you very much for your participation, I really rely on it and your continuous bug reports. They not only help, they are the columns of my work. Without it, strat would never be in a playable state. I promise I will try to keep the current strat as playable as possible for you, and the next strat as awesome as possible.

Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Ujin on September 04, 2011, 07:51:11 pm
I think a full wipe is more proper (as in proper for THIS Strat's competetive factor and overall fairness) due to many reasons, one of them is highlighted in the topic Meow started (some clans using multiple accounts and account sharing to get extra troops). But we can understand that you want to test as many things as possible to make preparations for the "real" Strategus. I think i can speak for everyone when i say we all hope it wont take years of waiting =).



Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Cicero on September 04, 2011, 08:02:48 pm
Now that I have a bit more time:

- why are you wiping gold and items?
first, it's not really a good solution, i think we can all agree. A full wipe would be fairer. However, a full wipe is currently not possible.
Also, the reason for the wipe is not (only) the current bug. I actually planned item&gold wipe before, and now that this happened it's a perfect situation to combine it.

- so why are you wiping it!!?!!
because of a new game mechanic. The new gold income is lowered drastically (before: crpggold/20, now: crpggold/50-1). the reason is that gold should be, for now, earned in strategus, not by grinding. People kicked everyone out of their fief because they gave a rats ass about the money, they wanted the troops. making it unplayable for people without fiefs.

- why should that change?
by lowering the grind income, people have to consider how to make money within strategus. Which means working, raiding, fief visitor fee, etc. Overall, gold will be lower, which also means lower tier equipment and less troops. Troop cost will be increased too - probably heavily, whatever that means, we'll see.

- why is a full wipe not possible?
because it would take too long to see any kind of results. right now is the perfect stage to test things for the gameplay. and i cant wipe strategus any time i'm testing new values. it usually goes like this: when possible, change on the fly. when that would substantially make it unfair for certain groups, do a semi wipe. when it's broken beyond fixability, do a full wipe.
doing no wipe now would mean that those who stashed cash up to now would be really unreachable by those who would have to start getting gold now. doing a full wipe would mean it would take months to see how the values turn out. and they will probably be adapted soon again, hopefully(and probably) without the need for a semi wipe or a full wipe.

-why aren't you giving people resources to test stuff?
it's not just about the battles, those are working very good, i think. what i'm trying to tinker with now is the amount of gold(=items) and troops people can and want to bring to skirmishes. i can only test that with a semi-real world, like we have in strategus. giving or taking resources would totally influence this balance.

-why aren't you testing stuff before releasing.
the entire QA department is on vacation. on a more serious note, you cannot test strategus with a small team, and I currently don't have the time to set up a proper test world. there is only the real strategus. I know many of you think this is the worst strategus EVER. Bug ridden, unplayable, you never know what bug or exploit will screw your entire plans over. From a dev point of view, I can say this is the best round ever. Every bug found is one less in the next strategus. And damn we've fixed a lot of bugs. Lots of code was rewritten in the backend, and if it goes on like this, strategus will be (breaking)bugfree soon. And then you will understand why the current round is so important.

Some of you get annoyed by bugs, you think "wtf? another bug? learn2code noob!". But the way I see it is actually: "yay, another bug found! means one less to worry about next round!". Try thinking of it this way: there's x number of bugs in strategus. Once all are found, the game is bugfree. So every reported bug brings the game forward, not backwards. also, please, report bugs in the strategus issue forum with a descriptive title. It often happens that the entire community knows a bug apart from me, because people talk about it on TS or skype or whatever, but no one tells me, or just drops a line in irc which will get overlooked 80% of the time. If it's not in the strategus issue forum, chances are I don't know about it. Many thanks to the guys who keep reporting bugs, it's really appreciated. Special thanks to kesh here who gave many detailed reports so far, and the more detailed the report is, the faster the bug is fixed.

Long story short: if you're just here to play and can't accept setbacks, better sit out and wait for some time. There will be a real strategus up, and it will be as polished as possible. I know it's sometimes frustrating, I thank you for dealing with this - and me. I'm trying to put as much work into this game as possible, and I am not really a person with a lot of free time. For all those who are willing to sit this through - I thank you very much for your participation, I really rely on it and your continuous bug reports. They not only help, they are the columns of my work. Without it, strat would never be in a playable state. I promise I will try to keep the current strat as playable as possible for you, and the next strat as awesome as possible.
finally a logical reply from chadz now we can understand your point.We are not gonna play strategus serious.Only thing we gonna do is try to fight and have fun and report bugs.So multi account and bla bla is free cos i dont think people gonna spend their time to get troops from people ( like steam message skype ts > member no:1 send your troops to fief , member no:2 send your  gold ) .
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: SeQuel on September 04, 2011, 08:03:08 pm

Long story short: if you're just here to play and can't accept setbacks, better sit out and wait for some time. There will be a real strategus up, and it will be as polished as possible. I know it's sometimes frustrating, I thank you for dealing with this - and me. I'm trying to put as much work into this game as possible, and I am not really a person with a lot of free time. For all those who are willing to sit this through - I thank you very much for your participation, I really rely on it and your continuous bug reports. They not only help, they are the columns of my work. Without it, strat would never be in a playable state. I promise I will try to keep the current strat as playable as possible for you, and the next strat as awesome as possible.

I'm impressed chadz, keep up the good work. It's good to see the more serious side of you every now and then.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Dasty on September 04, 2011, 08:10:12 pm
This all looks good, the only problem I see with the new gold system is that you have clans with 100+ members who don't even have to play cRPG to gain gold or troops. Smaller, highly active clans simply can't compete with the resource production of large, less active clans. This was a problem before the upcoming wipe and I think it will only get worse with the new system.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: chadz on September 04, 2011, 08:16:49 pm
That's true, and we're trying to find a solution to this.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Darkkarma on September 04, 2011, 08:20:12 pm
You'd dare try and curve the military strength of the LLJK/DRZ/GREY warmachine?!
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 04, 2011, 08:22:05 pm
Right in the middle of The Great Calradian War, lmao ahahahahaha

I love chadz.


EDIT:
Only player items and such reset, right?

Dear chadz, if I say give a neutral city 60,000 gold, since it is not a player owned city, does this mean that it will keep the gold? So, say... theoretically, if a neutral city in the middle of someone elses territory were to recieve a bajillion itmes, tens of thousands of troops, and a few million gold, will it stay, since it is neutral?
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Cicero on September 04, 2011, 08:27:18 pm
The point this mod has been beta for 2 years.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Sharky on September 04, 2011, 08:34:34 pm
because of a new game mechanic. The new gold income is lowered drastically (before: crpggold/20, now: crpggold/50-1). the reason is that gold should be, for now, earned in strategus, not by grinding. People kicked everyone out of their fief because they gave a rats ass about the money, they wanted the troops. making it unplayable for people without fiefs.

- why should that change?
by lowering the grind income, people have to consider how to make money within strategus. Which means working, raiding, fief visitor fee, etc. Overall, gold will be lower, which also means lower tier equipment and less troops. Troop cost will be increased too - probably heavily, whatever that means, we'll see.

Try to implement crafting caravans complex trading, in short an economic system similar (but hopefully better and more complex) of M&B Single Player, otherwise it will change little since alone or low rank guys will not have anything interesting to do anyway.
The only barely useful thing an unclanned guy can do atm is to just earn Strategus money in a town and sell it to some faction in exchange of Crpg money  :?. But since money earn in most town is low i don't think the benefits overcome the costs (contacting other clans, meet at a fixed hour since the guys have to do shitloads of clumsy trading both on strat and on crpg marketplace, and also have to press the allow trasfer button)
And the low ranks in a clan just have to work 24/24 in your fiefs to support the village lord or work in a town and dump the gold in your faction fiefs.

Strategus now is really boring if you are not a clan leader or an high rank, and i think now that it's harder to use lame mass puppetting of their clanmembers or fake accounts, i think we'll see a lot less activity in strat, with a lot more bored people teleported to merc lands because of inactivity.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Digglez on September 04, 2011, 08:37:41 pm
This all looks good, the only problem I see with the new gold system is that you have clans with 100+ members who don't even have to play cRPG to gain gold or troops. Smaller, highly active clans simply can't compete with the resource production of large, less active clans. This was a problem before the upcoming wipe and I think it will only get worse with the new system.

Very good point.  Personally I think doing well in cRPG should be more rewarding than sitting in a town doing nothing.

Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: roymorrison on September 04, 2011, 08:46:46 pm
I can't wait for the gold nerf.  Now we won't even be able to afford the cheap ass armor we used to wear, making archers even better in strat.  Getting shot to death in spawn for 90 minutes or however long a battle lasts is fun and satisfying.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 04, 2011, 08:48:04 pm
I can't wait for the gold nerf.  Now we won't even be able to afford the cheap ass armor we used to wear, making archers even better in strat.  Getting shot to death in spawn for 90 minutes or however long a battle lasts is fun and satisfying.

All good bows cost a lot of money, the lowest 4 bows are absolute shit, and most arrows will miss or drop quickly. Don't worry, you melee maniacs can still reach the front lines.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: dynamike on September 04, 2011, 08:56:15 pm
CRPG PLAYERS AROUND THE WORLD - HEAR MY WORDS AND FALL IN LOVE WITH ME AGAIN !

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Classical on September 04, 2011, 09:00:24 pm
Long story short: if you're just here to play and can't accept setbacks, better sit out and wait for some time. There will be a real strategus up, and it will be as polished as possible. I know it's sometimes frustrating, I thank you for dealing with this - and me. I'm trying to put as much work into this game as possible, and I am not really a person with a lot of free time. For all those who are willing to sit this through - I thank you very much for your participation, I really rely on it and your continuous bug reports. They not only help, they are the columns of my work. Without it, strat would never be in a playable state. I promise I will try to keep the current strat as playable as possible for you, and the next strat as awesome as possible.

Okay.  :oops:
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Merten on September 04, 2011, 09:11:45 pm
I can't wait for the gold nerf.  Now we won't even be able to afford the cheap ass armor we used to wear, making archers even better in strat.  Getting shot to death in spawn for 90 minutes or however long a battle lasts is fun and satisfying.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

 This, my friend, is not a table ... that thing is calling ... s - h - i - e - l - d ... it stand between you and the evil things ...

Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: sWalker on September 04, 2011, 09:29:28 pm
That's true, and we're trying to find a solution to this.

The sWalker's friend has a suggestion...

With your new mechanic that allows heirlooming in strat., you could also add a component that allows these people make the regular version of the material at a faster rate.  Then, you increase the amount of C-RPG play time to acquire this perk for all specific armor and weapon combinations.  This would allow small, active clans to have a large equipment advantage over a lazy giant.  Of course the smith perks would have to be wiped before the real strat. opened.

All aspects of the idea work beautifully...but, only if the coding can be accomplished without overburdening the demi-god Chad.

Sincerely,
Patrick
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: okiN on September 04, 2011, 09:34:24 pm
The point this mod has been beta for 2 years.

Actually, it's been in development for slightly less than a year and a half. Now let me ask you something: have you been here long enough to remember what the first alphas were like? Do you fully appreciate the fact that nobody ever seriously imagined making a project for Warband like cRPG before -- and that's without even getting into Strategus, DTV and now Stronghold. If you consider how much most other mod teams have achieved in that time, I'd say chadz has come pretty damn far. Let's not even get into all the extra shit he's had thrown at him, I mean what the fuck, how many modders have to deal with DDOS attacks and hackers?

I guess what I'm trying to say is give the man a break, and respect the amount of work he's already put into this free project that doesn't earn him a penny. Also, understand that the mod still being beta means he still wants to make it better, rather than just sorting out the most critical issues and then stopping work on it.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: 3ABP on September 04, 2011, 09:38:25 pm
...
Thanks a lot for detailed explanation.
It's really big project and of course we will try to help to this project.
At least by playing and bug reporting.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: PhantomZero on September 04, 2011, 09:48:06 pm
That's true, and we're trying to find a solution to this.
Thanks for the reasoning, that's all we really like to see some times.

I think any solution to this could be easily negated by having one faction (LLJK would at least) split its faction into however small of subfactions required to avoid being penalized for having a large memberbase. If people are willing to hack/exploit in their internet land and genocide simulator, you can bet they will do anything they can to have an edge over the next guy.

Large clans may have more inactive people, but they have more active people too, and it spreads out the stress amongst more people.

The biggest problem is when large clans have all of the members give passwords to the leaders so the leaders can do everything instantly, efficiently and without having to get in touch with the people. Large clans that don't do this have to deal with things such as, guy going afk with 300 troops for a week, guy having 20k gold and refusing to turn it in because he is a babby, a very large turnover rate because it is very boring to just hop on and turn in troops every other day or so, finding enough competent and available people who can command armies to defend large amounts of territory within 5 hours notice of being attacked, finding enough competent and available people who don't mind the logistics of transferring troops around. Such things are suitable limits to having a large clan, anything else could be avoided I think by the method mentioned previously.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Varyag on September 04, 2011, 10:21:00 pm
Um..chadz..I may be mistaken, but why did you abolish the previous strat system where larger clans had to pay "taxes" when transferring gold or troops? Can we have it again plz? So smaller clans have a chance against larger clans too?

And +1 for wipe
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: chadz on September 04, 2011, 10:22:39 pm
Um..chadz..I may be mistaken, but why did you abolish the previous strat system where larger clans had to pay "taxes" when transferring gold or troops?

I think any solution to this could be easily negated by having one faction (LLJK would at least) split its faction into however small of subfactions required to avoid being penalized for having a large memberbase.

That's why. It's also silly game design.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Varyag on September 04, 2011, 10:29:15 pm
I see. Though I believe there got to be a solution for that problem. Otherwise I am sure you understand that major clans with 100+ members will conquer the whole map.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Darkkarma on September 04, 2011, 10:48:32 pm
I can't wait for the gold nerf.  Now we won't even be able to afford the cheap ass armor we used to wear, making archers even better in strat.  Getting shot to death in spawn for 90 minutes or however long a battle lasts is fun and satisfying.

Quality ranged is expensive also man. At least for a little bit, we will be able to have our 2 hander heroes getting in the fray without being shot to hell.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: RandomDude on September 04, 2011, 10:50:45 pm
i think it's a good solution

strategus gold should be independant of crpg gold

you should be able to work in strategus to earn gold (as you can currently) but also trade/ with factions building mines either in predetermined locations or in cities/villages and getting income from that - also from taxing visitors and local population

raiding should also earn money (by selling loot etc)

I love burning the shit out of villages in sp and Id love to see that in strat
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Damug on September 04, 2011, 10:52:21 pm
I see. Though I believe there got to be a solution for that problem. Otherwise I am sure you understand that major clans with 100+ members will conquer the whole map.
Isn't that only natural?  Leonidas and his 300 Spartan warriors valiantly held back Xerxes's horde, but in the end they too bowed to the Persian throne.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: kinngrimm on September 04, 2011, 11:00:23 pm
That's true, and we're trying to find a solution to this.

As a possible solution think as base a diplomatic system,
implement relations as  factions agree to see they have to each other and would confirm that within strategus.
Then you can work on that terms of balancing.

for example

Neutral Factions if in trade, need to pay more gold or loose a percentage of what they trade, say they loose 50% of what has been traded.
Those who have NAPs only 40%
Those who have Defensiv Alliance 30%
Full Alliance 20%

At the time clans would use that you will then know which clans intend to work closely together and can calculate their overall members.

In that way you can implement a second negativ multiplier which perhaps comes into effect when you reach a member count of f.e.
- Defence allaince of say 100 members over all in all clans included
- Full alliance with say f.e 70 Members over all




again
1. You make it profitable to establish confirmed relations(which most in the community know anyway)
2. You have the actual count of members in all factions included who intend to work together closely and
to what extend they intend to work closely together
3. you now can regulate on that base a curve to what maximum number of players working together should be most profitable and
when it becomes less and less profitable, therefor making huge amounts of players in one faction or in one kind of diplomatic relation
unprofitable.

...
solved
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Cicero on September 04, 2011, 11:17:10 pm
As a possible solution think as base a diplomatic system,
implement relations as  factions agree to see they have to each other and would confirm that within strategus.
Then you can work on that terms of balancing.

for example

Neutral Factions if in trade, need to pay more gold or loose a percentage of what they trade, say they loose 50% of what has been traded.
Those who have NAPs only 40%
Those who have Defensiv Alliance 30%
Full Alliance 20%

At the time clans would use that you will then know which clans intend to work closely together and can calculate their overall members.

In that way you can implement a second negativ multiplier which perhaps comes into effect when you reach a member count of f.e.
- Defence allaince of say 100 members over all in all clans included
- Full alliance with say f.e 70 Members over all




again
1. You make it profitable to establish confirmed relations(which most in the community know anyway)
2. You have the actual count of members in all factions included who intend to work together closely and
to what extend they intend to work closely together
3. you now can regulate on that base a curve to what maximum number of players working together should be most profitable and
when it becomes less and less profitable, therefor making huge amounts of players in one faction or in one kind of diplomatic relation
unprofitable.

...
solved
good point but crpg community is really good skilled to abuse this =)
Actually, it's been in development for slightly less than a year and a half. Now let me ask you something: have you been here long enough to remember what the first alphas were like? Do you fully appreciate the fact that nobody ever seriously imagined making a project for Warband like cRPG before -- and that's without even getting into Strategus, DTV and now Stronghold. If you consider how much most other mod teams have achieved in that time, I'd say chadz has come pretty damn far. Let's not even get into all the extra shit he's had thrown at him, I mean what the fuck, how many modders have to deal with DDOS attacks and hackers?

I guess what I'm trying to say is give the man a break, and respect the amount of work he's already put into this free project that doesn't earn him a penny. Also, understand that the mod still being beta means he still wants to make it better, rather than just sorting out the most critical issues and then stopping work on it.
I have been playing this mod for more than 1,5 year.I know that chadz made this mod from wiping all characters each week to nearly 5000 accounts playing active also i checked 3 days ago how many players playing at servers and result was 484 or sth like that.We just want to play this game.People are just buying M&B to play crpg not native.
I just want a big solution to all of these non-stop whining.

Solution: 2$ monthly payment.So we can have devs team that earning money on it and also admins.In the other hand players can whine at them because they are paying this mod.We will have better servers , admins and chadz will loose some of his work rate.2$ each month is not gonna harm anyone that have internet and pc to play this game.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: okiN on September 04, 2011, 11:29:32 pm
The first public beta came out on 17.05.2010 and chadz put together the first internal alphas around the start of that month, so basically cRPG has existed as more than an idea for a little over 16 months. It's been a pretty wild ride! :)

Solution: 2$ monthly payment.So we can have devs team that earning money on it and also admins.In the other hand players can whine at them because they are paying this mod.We will have better servers , admins and chadz will loose some of his work rate.2$ each month is not gonna harm anyone that have internet and pc to play this game.

That'll never happen, chadz has always wanted to keep it free to play. Even if he wanted to do it, there are legal issues with mods charging players.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on September 04, 2011, 11:33:53 pm
Yeah, I only read the first few posts, because fuck everybody except chadz.

Thanks for ur work chadz
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: VVarlord on September 04, 2011, 11:36:48 pm
Yeah, I only read the first few posts, because fuck everybody except chadz.

Thanks for ur work chadz

Posters to follow and love.

chadz. Espu. Cmp.

Posters to ignore.

Okin.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Digglez on September 05, 2011, 12:03:54 am
All good bows cost a lot of money, the lowest 4 bows are absolute shit, and most arrows will miss or drop quickly. Don't worry, you melee maniacs can still reach the front lines.

Yes but a good bow and arrow is far cheaper than armor shield and weapon required to counter it.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Jarlek on September 05, 2011, 01:24:32 am
YOU are my beta testers! If you want a semi finished project, wait till you see a strategus link in your crpg page. This round serves it purpose perfectly, lots of bugs got found that a closed beta could never have.

Sorry, but it's not my fault you found the link to strategus beta in some topic that stated that its a very early version and ignored that statement.

Why de hell do you tell me to take it down, when all you have to do is not fucking open the page if it bothers you. What a self entitled snob....
I think the reasons people are angry is because they don't have that shiny "beta tester" forum thingie. *nudge nudge*

Btw, thanks for the heads up and the info. Nice to see it! I also like how we get to start fresh/semi fresh every now and then, just the next time you take it down, don't leave us for half a year without it 'k? xD

Also because of the lower gold amount, maybe buff some of the higher costing equipment? NOT for both cRPG and Strategus, but a Strategus only buff? Like, armour soaking more, high end weapons do more damage and horses being OP as fuck? Would hate to see that in cRPG but would like it in strat because of the low amount of gold.

But, seriously. I would kill to get that shiny Beta tester rank :D
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: SPQR on September 05, 2011, 01:34:49 am
- so why are you wiping it!!?!!
because of a new game mechanic. The new gold income is lowered drastically (before: crpggold/20, now: crpggold/50-1). the reason is that gold should be, for now, earned in strategus, not by grinding. People kicked everyone out of their fief because they gave a rats ass about the money, they wanted the troops. making it unplayable for people without fiefs.

- why should that change?
by lowering the grind income, people have to consider how to make money within strategus. Which means working, raiding, fief visitor fee, etc. Overall, gold will be lower, which also means lower tier equipment and less troops. Troop cost will be increased too - probably heavily, whatever that means, we'll see.

I don't think making gold more scarce is going to help the little guy any.

All this will do is substantially increase the demand for space in cities (most of which already have 25-30 people in them) since Working will be the only way to fund armies. With every city packed with 50+ people gold production will be lowered for everyone dramatically. Keep in mind there are only about 20 cities, and if each can only hold about 25 players and still have decent gold output, then we're only talking 500 players that can fit in there before gold output goes completely to hell.

But clans will take over all the cities sooner or later, right? Here is the problem with visitor fee for castles and cities. Since gold production is the only useful enterprise of cities/castles then if you set the visiting fee lower than the hourly Working wage,  then it is more profitable to kick out random pubbies and replace them with clan-mates instead. And if you set the visiting fee higher than the hourly Working wage then random pubbies would lose money by Working there. The only time it is more beneficial to let pubbies into your castes/cities if you literally do not have enough players to plug in there.

And by (substantially) lowering the world gold output you're dramatically increasing the demand for those slots. I guarantee you it is the landed clans that will come away with all those slots, not random pubbies and land-less clans. And once they're denied access to cities for gold they will have literally no way to ever get enough gold to accomplish anything.

The problem is that strategus is just too small. There are not enough fiefs and not enough space in each fief. That's why clans kick everyone out, because they need every spot available so you can pack more clan-mates in there.  If you want the small guys to have more of a chance in strategus heres what you do -

Either:
A) Increase the size of the strategus map and add more fiefs
or
B) Decrease the effect having many players in a fief has on its recruitment rates/working wage
and/or
C) Increase the Working wage/Recruitment rate in Castles so more people flock there instead of the overcrowded Cities

Plan B is the easiest and most important, in my opinion. It would have several effects:
-Clans would be less likely to kick out random dudes because they won't be hurting recruitment/working as bad
-Large clans will be less desperate to conquer more land to fit their playerbase into, thus smaller clans will have a better chance at survival.

I mean, just to show you how crowded it is, LLJK needs all 10 of our villages just to fit all our players in with decent recruitment rates. That is a bit ridiculous, I think we can all agree, and the problem will only grow worse as cRPG becomes more popular/strategus is released.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Nebun on September 05, 2011, 04:12:36 am
Good! too many people cheated with equipment.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: dynamike on September 05, 2011, 07:24:53 am
Another point to consider:

Factions thad had a lot of battles since the bug was in effect and as a result got 3 million+ gold from a lot of those fights that they are spending now on buying huge quantities of troops.

Just sayin'.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Slantedfloors on September 05, 2011, 07:34:09 am
Factions thad had a lot of battles since the bug was in effect and as a result got 3 million+ gold from a lot of those fights that they are spending now on buying huge quantities of troops.
How are they spending money on buying troops? What kind of idiot would sell troops for a currency that will disappear in 40~ish hours?
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Camaris on September 05, 2011, 08:22:12 am
This all looks good, the only problem I see with the new gold system is that you have clans with 100+ members who don't even have to play cRPG to gain gold or troops. Smaller, highly active clans simply can't compete with the resource production of large, less active clans. This was a problem before the upcoming wipe and I think it will only get worse with the new system.
That's true, and we're trying to find a solution to this.
Just add a Slotsystem to fiefs citys and towns. (Upgrade System)

For example:
Every fief has 5 Slots for recruiting players (15 if its neutral).
You get 100% if you got one slot and are recruiting there.
Those slots will become owner only after village got captured.

You conquer that fief and now are able to build up your stuff developing that fief.
There are 2 buildings:
1.Building:
Barrack -> adds 5 100% Slots to village for the owner (could be more lvls of barracks for example lvl3 barracks = + 15 Slots)
every Slot used in it costs 5 Gold per hour to the village.
2. Building
Tavern -> adds 5 50% Slots to the village only usable by other factions (could be more lvls of taverns for example lvl3 tavern = + 15 Slots)
Those are the only Slots a village owner can ask tax for. For example 10 Gold per hour.

=> Now a owner of a village would be interested to get neutral players in his villages for at least 5 Gold per hour so he can fill up his 100% Slots without
losing money. It would not make sense to split up the faction if he also can get those slots full with smaller allies or at least neutral clans.
The possibility of the fief-owner to kick out players of their villages should be enhanced so they can ban players for some days. Village owners also
could make treaties with smaller clans giving them all of their rentable slots for a defense pact etc. They could just kick out other players to make free slots
for that clan. That would small clans require to do some diplomatic stuff to get their slots too.

You could also make every village start with lvl1 tavern and barracks after it got conquered.
Similar buildings could be in citys or towns.
If you see that there are not enough slots available you just increase the possible lvl of the buildings by one.
In addition you could make every village have a base upkeep so its not rentable to hold fiefs you cant fill.

Big Clans still would be more powerful but small Clans always would have the ability to gather troops
and perhaps gain a village for their own if they help bigger clans in their wars.
In addition this model has a built in gold sink. If there is too much gold in strategus chadz just could raise the cost of the village owner slots
and more gold would vanish out of the game. This way chadz could manage inflation/deflation on the fly.
Clans could probably earn more if they allow everybody in their village and less if they only allow friends to get in there cause their tax will
probably be lower.

Possible Buildings for towns:
Tax Office: Granting 1 Slot for owner (Taxmasterslot) and 5 Slots for everyone else (Workerslot)
(again more lvls mean more slots)
Taxmaster gets 0 Gold/hour but 50% of the Gold every workerslot is generating if they are used.
Workerslot gets for example 50 Gold/hour.
=> 1 Taxmaster 3 Workers would be: 75 Gold for the taxmaster 25 Gold for every worker.


Again there would be an intention to get people working in the town cause you can earn much more if you have more players in it.
To allow competition between the towns you could allow a possible tax-range from 50-70%. Tax always should be in a way that taxmaster
can earn more money then workers.
Neutral towns would always have tax set to max without having taxmasterslots :p (for example 70% tax in neutral towns)

just some ideas that came to my mind while drinking my coffee ;)
its true this does not solve the problem that big clans / land owners are more powerful but tbh you cant solve this issue it´s natural.
It would solve the problem of smaller clans being kept out of the game after some time. So it would be better then now.

Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Keshian on September 05, 2011, 01:29:13 pm
Still confused how this works.  At what time on Tuesday GMT-2 time will all the stuff disappear?

Also, if you initiate an attack less than 24 hours before this time does that mean both sides will have no equipment when they fight?


Please clarify.  Thank you.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Gingerpussy on September 05, 2011, 01:45:09 pm
WINTER IS COMING      :evil:
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Erasmas on September 05, 2011, 02:00:59 pm
Still confused how this works.  At what time on Tuesday GMT-2 time will all the stuff disappear?

Also, if you initiate an attack less than 24 hours before this time does that mean both sides will have no equipment when they fight?


Please clarify.  Thank you.

I would add one more question - what's going to happen with the battles that actually start before the wipe deadline, but end after that deadline?

does that mean both sides will have no equipment when they fight?

And what if one of the sides is AI location?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: PhantomZero on September 05, 2011, 05:10:02 pm
As a possible solution think as base a diplomatic system,
implement relations as  factions agree to see they have to each other and would confirm that within strategus.
Then you can work on that terms of balancing.

for example

Neutral Factions if in trade, need to pay more gold or loose a percentage of what they trade, say they loose 50% of what has been traded.
Those who have NAPs only 40%
Those who have Defensiv Alliance 30%
Full Alliance 20%

At the time clans would use that you will then know which clans intend to work closely together and can calculate their overall members.

In that way you can implement a second negativ multiplier which perhaps comes into effect when you reach a member count of f.e.
- Defence allaince of say 100 members over all in all clans included
- Full alliance with say f.e 70 Members over all




again
1. You make it profitable to establish confirmed relations(which most in the community know anyway)
2. You have the actual count of members in all factions included who intend to work together closely and
to what extend they intend to work closely together
3. you now can regulate on that base a curve to what maximum number of players working together should be most profitable and
when it becomes less and less profitable, therefor making huge amounts of players in one faction or in one kind of diplomatic relation
unprofitable.

...
solved

This isn't solved at all.

Why exactly would factions need to trade? People would just join a single clan, NORTHERN EMPIRE instead of a bunch of rinky dink clans in order to avoid having to trade at all.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Astinus on September 05, 2011, 07:50:42 pm
Learn 2 code noob
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Keshian on September 05, 2011, 08:01:53 pm
I would add one more question - what's going to happen with the battles that actually start before the wipe deadline, but end after that deadline?

And what if one of the sides is AI location?

Thanks.

Can we get some of these questions answered please?  Thank you.  Every battle from now on is less than 24 hours from when the wipe will occur.  Would be useful to know what will happen to those armies.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Gingerpussy on September 05, 2011, 10:58:34 pm
i think its more then 24 hours even now right ???

Can we get some feedback when wipe will occur ?

GMT or GMT +1 pls
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Karmazyn on September 05, 2011, 11:24:27 pm
I think the wipe should be 60 hours back because people just abuse the bug and take cities, castles... with superior equipment.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: BattalGazi on September 05, 2011, 11:28:34 pm
I do understand how debugging process evolves and I'm not that upset about frequent patches, tweaks and hotfixes. Though I just have to mention that you cannot be fair-to-the-state of the game after so much have been done in strategus. I guess the best would be 0 or 1; no wipe or total wipe; if bugs are the ones to blame for the current situation. You should remember that bugs made some clans powerful and made the others weak.

By keeping the fiefs like they are now, you are just favoring the clans who own those and disabling/degrading dramatically the chance of the new comers to own new fiefs. I say, either kill the beast or ignore it grow in the dark.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Varyag on September 05, 2011, 11:36:08 pm
BTW here is a simple idea regarding strategus transaction taxes: Make all people that are in different factions (or factionless) pay tax for any transfer they make. Only members of the same faction  should not pay that tax, if they have...say less than 30 players in the faction. This way it will render pointless splitting large factions into smaller subfactions cause they will still pay that tax. What do you think about that? I know it is not ideal solution, but at least it might work for now.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: PhantomZero on September 06, 2011, 12:00:05 am
BTW here is a simple idea regarding strategus transaction taxes: Make all people that are in different factions (or factionless) pay tax for any transfer they make. Only members of the same faction  should not pay that tax, if they have...say less than 30 players in the faction. This way it will render pointless splitting large factions into smaller subfactions cause they will still pay that tax. What do you think about that? I know it is not ideal solution, but at least it might work for now.

How will it render splitting large factions into smaller subfactions pointless?
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Jarlek on September 06, 2011, 12:05:21 am
How will it render splitting large factions into smaller subfactions pointless?
Because if they have less than 30 members they have to pay tax.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: PhantomZero on September 06, 2011, 12:23:30 am
Because if they have less than 30 members they have to pay tax.

members of the same faction should not pay that tax, if they have less than 30 players in the faction.

Here comes a bunch of clans having only 30 players.

You don't realize you aren't trying to help tiny clans, you are just forcing big clans to become a bunch of tiny ones.

If you want to give small clans bigger roles in the game, you have to provide some incentive to have big factions work with them. There are already a few I can think of, but neutrals will pretty much always get the short end of the stick because there isn't much point except for them to farm troops and strategus gold to sell back into crpg gold.

Why shouldn't the clan with 10 villages be able to field a larger army than the clan with 2?

I don't think this version of strategus balances large and small clans very well, but I think we should focus and spend our time making sure the battles/retreating/spawning is good, and then worry about the balance when the other half of the game changes completely in Strategus 2.0. Diplomacy keeps large clans in check and clans are never truly defeated, they wait around until you start another war and then try to attack you again like some kind of nationalist rebellion.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Matey on September 06, 2011, 12:27:28 am
clans are never truly defeated, they wait around until you start another war and then try to attack you again like some kind of nationalist rebellion.

oh god.. it really is Europa Universallis 3!
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Palleto on September 06, 2011, 12:31:36 am
i like the idea but this really screwed me over as I've been saving up money now getting an army after saving and you resetting this is such shit. but an updates always good. the amount of bloody time it takes. we should get a little bit of starting money like between 1 and 5 k. it just really screws so many people who have been saving up and getting ready when this takes so long to do by yourself. 200 and something days it would take to try and build up an army to cap by yourself. think of the people doing that who just got screwed. if things need to be fixed they gotta be fixed but i wish this isn't the only way.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Varyag on September 06, 2011, 12:36:34 am
Quote
You don't realize you aren't trying to help tiny clans, you are just forcing big clans to become a bunch of tiny ones.

You did not understand. Please read again my post carefully.
If we have taxes on ALL TRANSFERS FOR FACTIONS EXCEEDING 30 MEMBERS AND FACTIONLESS PLAYERS AS WELL, large clans can split into smaller clans in any way they want, but they will not be able to painlessly transfer troops and gold between those subfactions anymore, cause they will PAY THAT TAX IN ANY CASE. And if they break into smaller factions, they wont be so powerfull anymore cause they wont be able to gather all resources of all subfactions in one piece without paying the tax.

THUS IT WILL SOLVE THE PROBLEM of large clans getting too powerfull. At least for some time.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Jarlek on September 06, 2011, 01:02:55 am
members of the same faction should not pay that tax, if they have less than 30 players in the faction.

Here comes a bunch of clans having only 30 players.

You don't realize you aren't trying to help tiny clans, you are just forcing big clans to become a bunch of tiny ones.

If you want to give small clans bigger roles in the game, you have to provide some incentive to have big factions work with them. There are already a few I can think of, but neutrals will pretty much always get the short end of the stick because there isn't much point except for them to farm troops and strategus gold to sell back into crpg gold.

Why shouldn't the clan with 10 villages be able to field a larger army than the clan with 2?

I don't think this version of strategus balances large and small clans very well, but I think we should focus and spend our time making sure the battles/retreating/spawning is good, and then worry about the balance when the other half of the game changes completely in Strategus 2.0. Diplomacy keeps large clans in check and clans are never truly defeated, they wait around until you start another war and then try to attack you again like some kind of nationalist rebellion.
Sigh. I hate when people do that. You are raging on me for something I didn't do. I didn't make the post, nor the claim, that it should/would help big/small/ginger clans. I just answered your question.

This is what you asked:
(click to show/hide)

To which I replied:
(click to show/hide)

I actually agree with you. This wouldn't help small clans at all and would be VERY unfair to them. All I did was answering your question. Please don't go all angry at me and tell me how stupid MY suggestion was. I'm sorry if this comes of as angry but it pisses me off when you start telling me how wrong I am when all I tried to do was clear something up for you.

I really think there should be something to do for the small/medium clans as well. The big 100+ dudes should be the big, land owning countries, or something, the middle 40-80 clans should be the mercenary, free towns, bandits, or something, factions and the less than 30 factions should be like, different merchant guilds, travelers, craftsmen and stuff like that. I really look forward for the new crafting system in strat and stuff so that hiring small faction would be an important, and almost always necessary, thing to do.

PS: About the bolded part. Hillarious and well said :D
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: PhantomZero on September 06, 2011, 01:35:18 am
You did not understand. Please read again my post carefully.
If we have taxes on ALL TRANSFERS FOR FACTIONS EXCEEDING 30 MEMBERS AND FACTIONLESS PLAYERS AS WELL, large clans can split into smaller clans in any way they want, but they will not be able to painlessly transfer troops and gold between those subfactions anymore, cause they will PAY THAT TAX IN ANY CASE. And if they break into smaller factions, they wont be so powerfull anymore cause they wont be able to gather all resources of all subfactions in one piece without paying the tax.

THUS IT WILL SOLVE THE PROBLEM of large clans getting too powerfull. At least for some time.

No, it won't. Each sub clan will be responsible for fielding an army and operating together, each leader of the subfaction would just be a general. Sure you may not have megastacks, but really 10 5k armies is more lethal than 5 10k.

How many armies do the mercenaries have? Do you not have 4-5 standing armies at any time? If each army was responsible for say 3 villages with 10 members in each, it would not be hard to accomplish this.
The only thing that would happen is that people would stop selling their troops so willingly, it would also be more difficult to teleport your armies from one half of the empire to the other.

Also, sorry Zapper, my post was a bit unclear, the first two lines were in reply to you really and the rest was more thoughts on why the whole idea was bad, not just Varyag's but any sort of penalty for having a number of members in your faction.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 06, 2011, 02:11:12 am
People need to shut up and stay on topic for the love of donkey.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: kinngrimm on September 06, 2011, 05:25:46 am
Why exactly would factions need to trade? People would just join a single clan, NORTHERN EMPIRE instead of a bunch of rinky dink clans in order to avoid having to trade at all.


Problems:
Single Clan with 70-100+ members or several clans working together with 70-100+ members.
This result in a huge production advantage, where smaller clans and small alliances of clans can't keep up.
And as bad side effect, players who are reduced to farm-bots who then don't really care so much about the game.

Suggestions(in my eyes solutions):
efficiency indicator/multiplicator, so that peak efficiency is reached between f.e. 70-100

You can deal with a single clan easily, the more people the less efficient they work till a point where more members don't bring extra gain(=peak reached).
As you mentioned in another thread, they then just would split into smaller factions, therefor would trade the stuff in between themselves.
Therefor is the Relationship system. Factions with closer relations loose less when they trade with each other, those with neutral or war like relations would loose a shitload if they decide to trade.
Now all would most likely go into alliances because they gain in terms of trade, therefor you would be able to calculate the member count of all who are in f.e. an alliance,
if they reach again 70-100+ members, their production efficiency drops and stays in the level of about 70-100 members even if they would be like 200.

Give them a carrot to join a system, which you then use to regulate the peak size/efficiency/production of HUGE Factions  or  HUGE alliances.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Gingerpussy on September 06, 2011, 11:08:56 pm
60 hours pasted, WHY no Wipe ???
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: VVarlord on September 06, 2011, 11:13:55 pm
WIPE OUT!
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Bjarky on September 06, 2011, 11:19:40 pm
prolly at 00.00 CET then...
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Amo_the_Grey on September 06, 2011, 11:19:59 pm
The Biggest chadz troll ever? xD
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Aseldo on September 06, 2011, 11:20:32 pm
60 hours pasted, WHY no Wipe ???

60 hours 59 minutes, 59 seconds, 9 tenths of a second, and 9 hundredths of a second. :wink:
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Bjarky on September 06, 2011, 11:22:18 pm
The Biggest chadz troll ever? xD
omg, that would be epic   :lol:
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Lizard_man on September 06, 2011, 11:27:55 pm
:shock:
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Aseldo on September 06, 2011, 11:40:30 pm
Strat just went blank, OH NOES
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Keshian on September 06, 2011, 11:45:45 pm
30 minutes late
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Kafein on September 06, 2011, 11:46:10 pm
No it works : http://strategus.c-rpg.net  :lol:
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: chadz on September 06, 2011, 11:57:53 pm
gold and items reset -

troops now cost 2.5 gold per day (before: 1)
within fiefs, 1 per day
when you run out of gold, you lose (1-0.987) troops per hour(before: [1-0.8])
income from crpg is now multi-1 instead of gold/20
everyone pays wages, independent of troop size
i hope i can add some more features thursday
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset - new game variables
Post by: Smoothrich on September 07, 2011, 12:10:30 am
What about putting troops in castles?  Is it also 1 per day, less, more?
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset - new game variables
Post by: SPQR on September 07, 2011, 12:10:47 am
welcome to the dark ages, motherfuckers
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset - new game variables
Post by: Smoothrich on September 07, 2011, 12:16:31 am
Also welp, what are we supposed to do still about castles we take that have no population thus make no gold?  Be great if you can add troops to population again.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset - new game variables
Post by: Erasmas on September 07, 2011, 12:54:28 am
welcome to the dark ages, motherfuckers

I'd rather say "world crisis" :D
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Keshian on September 07, 2011, 12:56:37 am
gold and items reset -
within fiefs, 1 per day

do you mean people with troops on them inside a fief or just troops part of the fief's troop count??
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset - new game variables
Post by: Matey on September 07, 2011, 12:57:07 am
the Calradian stock market took a huge hit, gold is scare and all those who were sitting around bullshiting the local peasants into joining their armies are now forced to find work. it is a dark day.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset - new game variables
Post by: Darkkarma on September 07, 2011, 01:03:21 am
The first ever Calradian Bear Market in strat history?
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Bjarky on September 07, 2011, 01:11:35 am
do you mean people with troops on them inside a fief or just troops part of the fief's troop count??
both

also, neutral city pop has been cut, making it even harder to make gold.
i think this gold nerf could be a little to harsh, but let's see how this turns out the next days.
We will be ready to QQ on you chadz  8-)
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset - new game variables
Post by: Lizard_man on September 07, 2011, 02:09:31 am
what next, plague and rebellion...
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset - new game variables
Post by: PhantomZero on September 07, 2011, 02:26:50 am
what next, plague and rebellion...

There already are rebellions.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Smoothrich on September 07, 2011, 02:31:20 am

Quote from: Keshian on Today at 21:56:37
do you mean people with troops on them inside a fief or just troops part of the fief's troop count??
both

Do you know this for sure?

Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset - new game variables
Post by: Lt_Anders on September 07, 2011, 02:33:47 am
With the current gold values, it costs 2.5 gold per troop per day. (2.5)

Assuming said person works in a moderate city: 40 Gold per hour
Plays CRPG with a 2X(the average) over 8 hours: 480 gold(approx) over the 8 hour play time.( 1g per tick, times 60, times 8)

That means you make per day: 1440 Gold per day.(40X24 +480)
Maximum army size attainable: 576(1440/2.5)

FIXED. That's an alright troop number

Assuming Clan has 100 memembers
Assume half play crpg per day: 480 x 50 =24,000
Assume 75 members of clan work: 40x24x75 = 72000
Total gold in one day: 96000
Maximum army size attainable: 38,400

That's actually pretty good.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset - new game variables
Post by: Matey on September 07, 2011, 02:39:34 am
1600 troops a day costs 4000 gold a day... 1600x2.5. if you make 40 gold an hour thats 960 a day, so about 4 guys would cover that 1600 man army if its out in the open.

the key thing you messed up... is that its 2.5 gold per troop per day. not per hour.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset - new game variables
Post by: Lt_Anders on September 07, 2011, 02:44:01 am
1600 troops a day costs 4000 gold a day... 1600x2.5. if you make 40 gold an hour thats 960 a day, so about 4 guys would cover that 1600 man army if its out in the open.

the key thing you messed up... is that its 2.5 gold per troop per day. not per hour.

Ah, makes sense. I knew that 24 couldn't be proper! Updated. Much better, and more reasonable numbers. Though the second one is a VERY large clan. And even then it requires nearly 75 people working at city level....
There's NO WAY anyone will be able to get over 30k troops now. Don't think it'll be possible. It'll be a pain to just fund that army, imagine having to buy equipment, argh I'd just want to die after looking at it.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset - new game variables
Post by: Topsnus on September 07, 2011, 02:48:04 am
With the current gold values, it costs 2.5 gold per troop per day. (2.5)

Assuming said person works in a moderate city: 40 Gold per hour
Plays CRPG with a 2X(the average) over 8 hours: 480 gold(approx) over the 8 hour play time.( 1g per tick, times 60, times 8)

That means you make per day: 1440 Gold per day.(40X24 +480)
Maximum army size attainable: 576(1440/2.5)

FIXED. That's an alright troop number

Assuming Clan has 100 memembers
Assume half play crpg per day: 480 x 50 =24,000
Assume 75 members of clan work: 40x24x75 = 72000
Total gold in one day: 96000
Maximum army size attainable: 38,400

That's actually pretty good.

There is one flaw in this calculation. Upkeep is only 1 per troop if you are in a fief, and if you aren't in a fief, you cant make the 40g per hour. Needs to be adjusted and given a when traveling as well as a when stationary. Your numbers are too big for travelling, and not quite big enough if just sitting around.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset - new game variables
Post by: SPQR on September 07, 2011, 02:49:16 am
With the current gold values, it costs 2.5 gold per troop per day. (2.5)

Assuming said person works in a moderate city: 40 Gold per hour
Plays CRPG with a 2X(the average) over 8 hours: 480 gold(approx) over the 8 hour play time.( 1g per tick, times 60, times 8)

That means you make per day: 1440 Gold per day.(40X24 +480)
Maximum army size attainable: 576(1440/2.5)

FIXED. That's an alright troop number

Assuming Clan has 100 memembers
Assume half play crpg per day: 480 x 50 =24,000
Assume 75 members of clan work: 40x24x75 = 72000
Total gold in one day: 96000
Maximum army size attainable: 38,400

That's actually pretty good.

Thanks for this. I'mma try to come back later and lay down some math-hammer here on landed vs. land-less upkeep but at first glance this looks like an absolute death-knell to any clan that cannot store their troops in a fief.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset - new game variables
Post by: Lt_Anders on September 07, 2011, 02:54:01 am
There is one flaw in this calculation. Upkeep is only 1 per troop if you are in a fief, and if you aren't in a fief, you cant make the 40g per hour. Needs to be adjusted and given a when traveling as well as a when stationary. Your numbers are too big for travelling, and not quite big enough if just sitting around.

In fiefs your army size goes up to 1440 per person, true, but the moment you take your army out, that gold is going to kick in. The values I posted are the most likely values that will be attainable. Trying to do MORE will most likely bite you. If you sit in fief, the difference between 576 and 1440(864 gold) can be used to buy equipment or store the gold to pay for mercs, etc etc etc. Just rough math too. So many variables you need to take into effect. I'd say the 100 clan one is more reasonable. 75% working with no troops 25% with, 50% play per day.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset - new game variables
Post by: LLJK_Siggy on September 07, 2011, 02:56:35 am
Playing 8 hours a day is a bit excessive imo
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset - new game variables
Post by: dynamike on September 07, 2011, 03:03:03 am
WHERE THE FACK IS WALT WHEN WE TALK NUMBERS ??
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Bjarky on September 07, 2011, 03:04:51 am
do you mean people with troops on them inside a fief or just troops part of the fief's troop count??
both
Do you know this for sure?
it was intended as such, but has never been tested.
just tested it out and it's not both  :oops:
only the village pays 1 per troop per day.
everyone else in or out of an fief pays 2,5  :?

kinda makes it extra hard for non-fief owners...
it's probably a bug, so i will make an bug report in strat issue section.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset - new game variables
Post by: Lt_Anders on September 07, 2011, 03:12:39 am
Bah I'm checking my number and making spreadsheets

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/690/troopsr.jpg/)

Here is the Spreadsheet if you wish to play with it yourself!
 (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiLiPRCefe-NdEtGM2w4ZWJMTG5xS0dmRUY4YW5TdEE&hl=en_US)
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset - new game variables
Post by: arowaine on September 07, 2011, 05:17:28 am
well like everyone said even if you are not a owner of a fief and have no land you pay 2.5 gold per day as well!

Had 1979 troop with 7769gold on me, was moving(not in a fief or earning money)afther 1hours i was at 7562 gold! so i did lose 207so x24(hours per day)=4968 gold per day.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset in 60 hours (2 and a half day)
Post by: Digglez on September 07, 2011, 09:05:18 am
gold and items reset -

troops now cost 2.5 gold per day (before: 1)
within fiefs, 1 per day
when you run out of gold, you lose (1-0.987) troops per hour(before: [1-0.8])
income from crpg is now multi-1 instead of gold/20
everyone pays wages, independent of troop size
i hope i can add some more features thursday

Is this X strategus gold PER multi you get, or multi PER TICK.

IE...If I'm on Siege and start with a x3, do I only get 2 strategus gold for that round, or do I get 2 strategus gold per tick with my x3 multi?
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset - new game variables
Post by: Bjarky on September 07, 2011, 10:10:11 am
it's per tick
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset - new game variables
Post by: Visconti on September 08, 2011, 10:53:14 am
Feels like calradia has just hit its great depression
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset - new game variables
Post by: Gingerpussy on September 08, 2011, 02:21:16 pm
Dear mister chadz.

You are a very good programmer, but math is not your game :P

This changes turn all members of a clan and clan less ppl into gold farming machines. They have absolutely nothing to do inside Strategus anymore. I salute some changes but this is way to harsh. i good clan with 30 to 50 members (50 is large in Strat) should have the possibility to have troops, as it is now that option is not there.

The easiest fix to this is to implement  conversion of troops again both from population to troops and vice versa.

I know you want Strategus to be more tactical and whit this simple solution this version of strategus is fixed. Then there would be use for clan members as well as they have to stay close to the castles or fiefs and so on. And that way no one can afford to have a large standing army but convert it when planing a attack on someone.

A additional fix would be to add a few fiefs maybe 1 fief close to any big city that is AI forever, and that clanless ppl can buy convertion of troops as well, maybe a pool of troops like population and troops for hire.

Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset - new game variables
Post by: HarunYahya on September 08, 2011, 04:48:02 pm
Quote from: Albert Einstein
I don't know what weapons will be used in world war three, but in world war four people will use sticks and stones.
Now is the time for World War 4 thanks to chadz.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset - new game variables
Post by: Rikthor on September 08, 2011, 07:59:34 pm
Stuff

I agree with this to a degree, it seems like the gold nerf was a bit too harsh. Not the actual wipe but gold production rather. I certainly understand not rolling around in full plate for strat battles but rocks and practice shields are little bit too much to the other extreme.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset - new game variables
Post by: Overdriven on September 08, 2011, 08:18:07 pm
It's only been a couple of days though. Considering by the time many clans were running around in some better equipment was a good few weeks, if not a month, down the line, I think it's a bit early to tell. Yes every ones grinding gold slowly now, but after 2 days you can hardly expect to equip a decent army with even basic swords/bows ect. It's going to take time for the gold to get enough to buy equip for an entire army. You must remember that when this started the first battles were with 500 troops or so. By the end an average decent sized battle took place with 6k or so per side, often a lot more. Not to mention those cities being taken. You can't expect to equip your full troops at the moment.

Although I will say, the fact cities are jam packed at the moment is making an average of 40 gold per hour for most. When strat started many cities still had 200g per hour even after 3-4 weeks. I think until a larger map is released to compensate for the huge numbers of players in strat atm, it's hard to judge exactly what effect changing economic values will really have because gold is such a rarity as a result.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset - new game variables
Post by: PhantomZero on September 08, 2011, 09:54:05 pm
It's only been a couple of days though. Considering by the time many clans were running around in some better equipment was a good few weeks, if not a month, down the line, I think it's a bit early to tell. Yes every ones grinding gold slowly now, but after 2 days you can hardly expect to equip a decent army with even basic swords/bows ect. It's going to take time for the gold to get enough to buy equip for an entire army. You must remember that when this started the first battles were with 500 troops or so. By the end an average decent sized battle took place with 6k or so per side, often a lot more. Not to mention those cities being taken. You can't expect to equip your full troops at the moment.

Although I will say, the fact cities are jam packed at the moment is making an average of 40 gold per hour for most. When strat started many cities still had 200g per hour even after 3-4 weeks. I think until a larger map is released to compensate for the huge numbers of players in strat atm, it's hard to judge exactly what effect changing economic values will really have because gold is such a rarity as a result.

That isn't why cities are at 40 gold per hour, people are at 40 gold per hour because the city populations were cut in half.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset - new game variables
Post by: Overdriven on September 08, 2011, 09:57:16 pm
That isn't why cities are at 40 gold per hour, people are at 40 gold per hour because the city populations were cut in half.

Edit:

My mistake, you are right.

Bariyye was at 90 gold 1 week ago but it was already dropping rapidly before the cut in half thing so the jam packed thing definitely doesn't help. Cutting it in half just added to it.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset - new game variables
Post by: Bjarky on September 08, 2011, 09:59:39 pm
no after these 2 days, it has become quite clear math wise.
the gold and upkeep nerf is too harsh, especially for nonfief clans and randomers, wich have to pay 2,5 (within or out of an fief, there is no discount).
there has to be some balance here, you can't both have an "hammer" on both upkeep and gold intake, will result is way fewer troops in order to afford for proper gear.
the incentive to take castles or cities is even lower now, it makes no econimical sense, since you can't even replenish their pop after taking it, resulting in destroying your chances of gold income even more.

different suggestions to improve this:
1. higher gold income.
2. lower upkeep.
3. troop into pop conversion.
4. being inside a fief upkeep discount.
5. higher max limit for troops before upkeep kicks in.
6. set capital increases pop/gold growth in chosen fief.

feel free to add more guys, but keep it simple, it has to be something that is actually possible to code with the current strat, in order to save time.
after this there is more time to actually code something new to add in and improve strat more.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset - new game variables
Post by: SPQR on September 08, 2011, 10:13:21 pm
1. higher gold income.
2. lower upkeep.
3. troop into pop conversion.
4. being inside a fief upkeep discount.
5. higher max limit for troops before upkeep kicks in.
6. set capital increases pop/gold growth in chosen fief.

Add:
7. Better gold income from castles

And we have a winner.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset - new game variables
Post by: Jarlek on September 08, 2011, 10:15:46 pm
Add:
7. Better gold income from castles

And we have a winner.
To be hones, I would rather have a 0.2 upkeep for troops in castles. Increase gold in town though (MOAR goldz!)
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset - new game variables
Post by: kinngrimm on September 09, 2011, 12:18:21 am
Add:
7. Better gold income from castles
8. manufacturing gear

And we have a winner.
Title: Re: Strategus item&gold reset - new game variables
Post by: sWalker on September 09, 2011, 07:03:50 am
The sWalker agrees with the hero Kinngrimm...allow the sWalker to manufacture his bows at this point and time and all will be forgiven.