When are you finally add some sort of punishment to TA and TK ?

[Elmetiacos]

Some classes are prone to getting teamhits and teamkills more often than others - throwing is always getting me teamhits (actual TKs not so often) because the slow speed of the weapon means there's plenty of time for an ally to jump into its path before it hits the enemy. On the other hand, how often is anyone teamkilled by a pikeman? Then there's the "ragdoll" kill where the TKer is blameless, but just happened to attack a tiny fraction of a second after an ally: the enemy dies and the blow goes through the ragdolling enemy and hits a friend.

[Vibe]

Not to mention the overhead back kills

[Torp]

How to avoid accidental TKs? Hide away from your teammates, spread out, dont play tactical.. or hide!

Also, this will punish the TKers by not giving them the reward, as you will get the reward most of the time, it will feel like a punishment.
What do you do when some ass**** jumps in front of you after you started to swing your inbalanced wep against the enemy? You kill him because of his action, he gets the reward, and you dont.

Pretty much what i was going to write.

Sadly, a balanced system of tk/tw will never be possible since every situation is unique.

For examples, really stupid and annoying tk/tw situations include:

- ANY intentional tk/tw (ofc!)

- Friendly couch whilst in melee

- Friendly lance whilst in melee

- Friendly bump whilst in melee

- Friendly arrow in melee

- Obviously careless swings in melee (this one is abit vague, but if someone spams sideswings in a friendly clusterfuck chaseing etc...)

- Friendlies killing the ladder ur on

...and more, but point is all of these situations deserve some form of more severe punishment imo.

Now, some situations that imo would not call for punishment:

- Stray arrow

- Someone stepping infront of a swing (as said, melee is more vague, but you get the idea)

- Unintentional bumping whilst not in melee

- Killing the @sshole that is intentionally repetedly tk-ing/tw-ing you.

...And many more.

Also:

If someone does someething stupid, and apologizes for it, it just makes it SO much easier to just wanna let it slide. ("Soz bro, that was stupid. Wanna try my +3 xxx next round?")

I can't stress this enough, a good apology makes up for almost any unintentional tw/tk imo.

(On the other hand, if you do a really stupid tk, don't whine about it if you get abit of flaming!)

There are so many things going on that simply cannot be measured by the server, and NOT punishing the good guys is WAY more important than punishing the @rseholes.

Besides, we do have admins, and kickpolls (the latter abused enough already), so inventing some ultra-advanced tk/tw punishment system should not be high at all on the dev "to do list" (STRATEGUS!)

This list is crap. If you, as an archer, see two people with equal skill and equipment fight, you should always shoot unless tehre is a better target around.
Reason? if there is a bigger chance of hitting the enemy than the friend (which we assume since the archer aims for the enemy and is hopefully not a total retard), it will statisticly help your team, increasing he chance of winning.
Same goes for lancers in terms of lancing and bumping.

[Dezilagel]

This list is crap. If you, as an archer, see two people with equal skill and equipment fight, you should always shoot unless tehre is a better target around.
Reason? if there is a bigger chance of hitting the enemy than the friend (which we assume since the archer aims for the enemy and is hopefully not a total retard), it will statisticly help your team, increasing he chance of winning.
Same goes for lancers in terms of lancing and bumping.

What kind of logic is that? This is not about statistics, this is about humans, and I think all can agree that getting tk'd sucks balls.

Btw, if you really wanna go down that route, you're still wrong.

If I fight in melee, and notice that enemy archers are firing at me, I will ofc adjust my playstyle to that. I will twist and turn in time with their volleys and try to position my enemy between me and the archers. Also, I will play on the defensive, so that if I do get hit, I'll probably not die to my enemies next swing. Point being, if I see it, and expect it I will do my best to defend against it, vastly incresing my chance of survival.

On the other hand nobody expects the spanish inquisition a friendly arrow in the back, and as such they are much more likely to get me killed.

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nice troll

[MrShine]

What kind of logic is that? This is not about statistics, this is about humans, and I think all can agree that getting tk'd sucks balls.

Btw, if you really wanna go down that route, you're still wrong.

If I fight in melee, and notice that enemy archers are firing at me, I will ofc adjust my playstyle to that. I will twist and turn in time with their volleys and try to position my enemy between me and the archers. Also, I will play on the defensive, so that if I do get hit, I'll probably not die to my enemies next swing. Point being, if I see it, and expect it I will do my best to defend against it, vastly incresing my chance of survival.

On the other hand nobody expects the spanish inquisition a friendly arrow in the back, and as such they are much more likely to get me killed.

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nice troll

Well you are assuming that a) you DID notice the enemy archer and b) your split attention won't put you at a disadvantage against the person fighting you in your face. 

This is a tangent, but I actually agree with Torp to a point.  If you are a good archer you'll hit the enemy player much more often than your friendly, which would tip the "win %" into your teammate's favor from a 50/50 chance. 

I'm certainly not advocating "hey archers fire into melee indiscriminately!" but when I roll an archer gen I shoot into melee all the time and as long as you pick & time your shots appropriately you'll assist far more kills than team deaths.

Pulling this back to topic, it does totally suck when you get bumped/shot by a friendly just when you are about to land a shot on the enemy, or right before you are blocking a swing, but skilled players who are careful and take calculated risks probably should be acting this way... it's the careless/greedy/unskilled friendlies that you should watch out for 

[Dezilagel]

Well you are assuming that a) you DID notice the enemy archer and b) your split attention won't put you at a disadvantage against the person fighting you in your face. 

This is a tangent, but I actually agree with Torp to a point.  If you are a good archer you'll hit the enemy player much more often than your friendly, which would tip the "win %" into your teammate's favor from a 50/50 chance. 

I'm certainly not advocating "hey archers fire into melee indiscriminately!" but when I roll an archer gen I shoot into melee all the time and as long as you pick & time your shots appropriately you'll assist far more kills than team deaths.

Pulling this back to topic, it does totally suck when you get bumped/shot by a friendly just when you are about to land a shot on the enemy, or right before you are blocking a swing, but skilled players who are careful and take calculated risks probably should be acting this way... it's the careless/greedy/unskilled friendlies that you should watch out for 

This is not about statistics

[Tears of Destiny]

Dezilagel, I do very often contribute to melee fights with my archer, and truth be told it works as the enemy rarely notices until I fire my second or third arrow or hit him, of which I can then move on to a new target while leaving him heavily distracted or wounded.

There is a difference between shooting into a duel of two nutter 2 hander dancers, and simply donating an arrow or three to help out a melee who is giving you clear firing lanes.

I hate to say it, but more often then not my opponent does not notice me shooting at them until it is too late, and a MasterWorked Warbow shoots an arrow fast enough that if I am anywhere close to my target they don't have time to dodge if already "wrapped up" in a melee. It also helps that my clanmates (as well as members of clans that fight with us often enough) have an unspoken agreement and understanding to step properly in the melee fight to allow us better shots.

Considering more often then not I have been helped more then hindered from an archer helping me out when meleeing, I am ok with people shooting in to help me even if I get hit every now and then, especially when I consider that I have been TKed more often from a melee then a range weapon.

For clarification, Torp is not saying "take potshots and damn the consequences" he is merely saying that opportunistic fire often works if the archer has half a brain and just shoots with care and avoids potshots.

[POOPHAMMER]

Maybe a better system would be tk forgiveness/punish system. Like if you get tked you press ! To penalize them if it was inentional, 2 to forgive if it was an accident. Yeah people would probably abuse it, but it would at least let the people who were killed on accident and are nice a chance to forgive you

[Kafein]

Maybe a better system would be tk forgiveness/punish system. Like if you get tked you press ! To penalize them if it was inentional, 2 to forgive if it was an accident. Yeah people would probably abuse it, but it would at least let the people who were killed on accident and are nice a chance to forgive you

Yes, this is done in various games and works correctly.

[Dezilagel]

Yes, this is done in various games and works correctly.

It's good, but it does not deal with the common situation where you strike back at someone who is repetedly teamhitting you...

[POOPHAMMER]

Yes, this is done in various games and works correctly.

Yeah, I can't remeber the game I did this on I think socom 2 on ps2, and it worked well

[POOPHAMMER]

It's good, but it does not deal with the common situation where you strike back at someone who is repetedly teamhitting you...

Isn't revenge teamhitting/killing just as much against the rules as intentional teamhitting/killing?

[Kenouse]

There is some native servers that got a great solution for this problem.. If you TA you will get the damage instead of the dude you were hitting.
Seems like a fair solution imo

[POOPHAMMER]

There is some native servers that got a great solution for this problem.. If you TA you will get the damage instead of the dude you were hitting.
Seems like a fair solution imo

Reflective friendly fire is also in crpg, server admins rarely turn it on though.

[Dezilagel]

Isn't revenge teamhitting/killing just as much against the rules as intentional teamhitting/killing?

Not revenge, but when someone is assaulting you repetedly you have the choice of either killing him, or letting him kill you (and continue killing your mates). In that situation I do think it should be "ok" to teamkill.