Author Topic: OP Horse Archers  (Read 18342 times)

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Offline Glyph

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Re: OP Horse Archers
« Reply #195 on: June 28, 2011, 10:56:54 am »
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Overdriven, you keep saying HAs aren't dangerous. And you are right in way, they don't get a lot of kills on average, but they can get 4 of the best cavs horses down without a scratch, and that only in one round! And that while they don't have to be good HA's. They are probably the best class if you want to help your team. Those cavs could've got down 20  people at least. The cav can't do a thing about it. That i think is unfair.
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Offline Dezilagel

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Re: OP Horse Archers
« Reply #196 on: June 28, 2011, 11:07:18 am »
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Overdriven, you keep saying HAs aren't dangerous. And you are right in way, they don't get a lot of kills on average, but they can get 4 of the best cavs horses down without a scratch, and that only in one round! And that while they don't have to be good HA's. They are probably the best class if you want to help your team. Those cavs could've got down 20  people at least. The cav can't do a thing about it. That i think is unfair.

Not true, cav have the mobility and speed to actually have some "gtfo" abilitiy against HA, and are the last ones that should be complaining (infantry in the same situation would be completely at the mercy of the HA).

And I LOL'D at your "those 4 cav could've brought down 20 ppl at least" xD Have they forgot how to fight on foot?

HA - lancer balance should stay the same. What HA does atm is dehorsing lancers quite effectively, which is rendering them far from useless but is a nice way to support your team. Nothing wrong with this.

And if you get dehorsed by HA in a bad position (far away from the main clash), then that's probably your own fault imo.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2011, 11:10:43 am by Dezilagel »
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Offline Lorenzo_of_Iberia

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Re: OP Horse Archers
« Reply #197 on: June 28, 2011, 01:13:18 pm »
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Ye as a lancer myself I avoid HA like the plague, if I am gonna attack one it has to be a hit and run preferably when they are focused on someone else, or chasing him down with another lancer/s. You can't consider yourself an intelligent lancer if you stick around once a HA has noticed you.
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Offline Overdriven

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Re: OP Horse Archers
« Reply #198 on: June 28, 2011, 05:50:22 pm »
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Overdriven, you keep saying HAs aren't dangerous. And you are right in way, they don't get a lot of kills on average, but they can get 4 of the best cavs horses down without a scratch, and that only in one round! And that while they don't have to be good HA's. They are probably the best class if you want to help your team. Those cavs could've got down 20  people at least. The cav can't do a thing about it. That i think is unfair.

They are dangerous in the right hands, like any class. But from an average players perspective I don't think shooting down horses can really class them as being properly dangerous. A lancer, when shot down, does have the opportunity for fight for a while (depending on where that happened).

To shoot all 4 horses down (your example) would take most of the round, unless the cav are complete douche's and just pay the HA no heed. It'll probably take me at least 30 secs to shoot down 1 horse if they have noticed me and are actively trying to get away from me, which on all but the most open maps, isn't relatively hard. And in a 5 min battle, 30 secs is a long time. It just so happens that I devote my entire round to taking out cavalry, whilst occasionally taking pot shots at inf.

I honestly think HA is only truly dangerous to cav who simply don't care enough to think of a way out. Or on properly open maps. However, I would agree that they are one of the best classes for helping a team out if one team has good cav. But I personally think that is balanced. I think HA should be able to take down lancers relatively well, it's one of their primary roles. And any cav who thinks they can just charge around with out paying attention to us, deserves to be shot down.

But from Dezilagels perspective. I can see what he is talking about. Cav do have an opportunity to take out HA. If the HA is using an average horse (which lots do) then lancers have the speed or manouevre to cut them off/catch them off guard. HA aren't often the most aware of classes. They have tendencies to focus on an opponent and go for it, and this can be there weakness. Especially if said HA is using the zoomed aim at all. Add on the light armour and one good lance hit can make the kill.

However, I can see that 2h/people who aren't shielders do have a problem when dealing with HA. But as I have said before, I'm not entirely sure this will be a massive issue once throwing is back and we see plenty more throwing builds. Perhaps we need to see that back before a decision can truly be made.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2011, 05:51:51 pm by Overdriven »

Offline Cyclopsided

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Re: OP Horse Archers
« Reply #199 on: June 29, 2011, 02:42:58 am »
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I have one huge disagreement with you overdriven. You state that HA are often not the most aware of classes.

HA is a class based on awareness, if you aren't aware of everything around you then you've already missed opportunities to inflict damage and avoid damage. An Aware HA has no chance of being lanced, running into infantry blindly, and will avoid the roofs with archers on them and so on...
If the HA focuses on one opponent and gets itself killed needlessly, it is a bad HA. End of story. HA inflict damage across the entire enemy team when opportunities are given and there are always opportunities. Enemy horsemen are easy targets to dehorse and kill and are the favorite food of a HA on the hunt, yes.

Also, only dedicated throwers [with shields] are the counter to HA. Your idea that every 2h melee should carry a ranged weapon dedicated to taking out a minority target -- and it still not be a decent counter? Throwing as a dedicated character counters Horse archery. A melee with a throwing sidearm does not.

tbh I'd rather not see hybrid throwers everywhere again, it was stupid. I want dedicated throwers to make a come back though.

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« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 04:32:16 am by Marathon »
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Offline Overdriven

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Re: OP Horse Archers
« Reply #200 on: June 29, 2011, 09:00:47 am »
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I have one huge disagreement with you overdriven. You state that HA are often not the most aware of classes.

HA is a class based on awareness, if you aren't aware of everything around you then you've already missed opportunities to inflict damage and avoid damage. An Aware HA has no chance of being lanced, running into infantry blindly, and will avoid the roofs with archers on them and so on...
If the HA focuses on one opponent and gets itself killed needlessly, it is a bad HA. End of story. HA inflict damage across the entire enemy team when opportunities are given and there are always opportunities. Enemy horsemen are easy targets to dehorse and kill and are the favorite food of a HA on the hunt, yes.

Also, only dedicated throwers [with shields] are the counter to HA. Your idea that every 2h melee should carry a ranged weapon dedicated to taking out a minority target -- and it still not be a decent counter? Throwing as a dedicated character counters Horse archery. A melee with a throwing sidearm does not.

You're talking about the most ideal HA. Most aren't and a lot of them are unaware. I catch other HA off guard all the time, other cav can to. All cav has to be aware to survive/deal damage, as do all other classes in general. If a footman isn't aware he'll miss a block, get hit from the side/behind and surrounded, take arrows, get lanced. If anything I'd say they have to be more aware than HA if they are going to survive long in melee. It's all very well having these ideals Marathon, but only a minority of people who play the class fit what you described. It's player based. Not class based.

I never said 2h should take throwing. I said seeing throwers in a melee (where they tend to be anyway) may help the 2h as well. It's not a direct counter for 2h/polearm users ect, but it would help. I also said it wasn't for taking down a minority class. It would help against all cav.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 09:11:52 am by Overdriven »

Offline Kenji

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Re: OP Horse Archers
« Reply #201 on: June 29, 2011, 09:17:43 am »
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HA is a class based on awareness, if you aren't aware of everything around you then you've already missed opportunities to inflict damage and avoid damage. An Aware HA has no chance of being lanced, running into infantry blindly, and will avoid the roofs with archers on them and so on...
I don't know, I believe all classes need awareness, even when I'm fully plated on a plate charger, I still get one shot by lancers if I didn't pay much attention to them. It's hard to generalize one class by one's play style, but battle awareness is something required for all classes to survive in the harsh environment of Battle.

Oh, and I just got CPR, AED and First Aid Certified today.
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Sadly I didn't have AED certified since my lifeguard training didn't require such course at the time.

Offline Glyph

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Re: OP Horse Archers
« Reply #202 on: June 29, 2011, 01:58:52 pm »
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I don't know, I believe all classes need awareness, even when I'm fully plated on a plate charger, I still get one shot by lancers if I didn't pay much attention to them. It's hard to generalize one class by one's play style, but battle awareness is something required for all classes to survive in the harsh environment of Battle.
By Red Cross?

Sadly I didn't have AED certified since my lifeguard training didn't require such course at the time.
if you're a lifeguard, save us all form overdriven, or he'll eat us alive! :P
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Glyph you have obsessive Horse Archer and Horse hatred.
- Official diagnosis :)

Offline polkafranzi

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Re: OP Horse Archers
« Reply #203 on: June 29, 2011, 02:05:28 pm »
+2
Not true, cav have the mobility and speed to actually have some "gtfo" abilitiy against HA, and are the last ones that should be complaining (infantry in the same situation would be completely at the mercy of the HA).

And I LOL'D at your "those 4 cav could've brought down 20 ppl at least" xD Have they forgot how to fight on foot?

HA - lancer balance should stay the same. What HA does atm is dehorsing lancers quite effectively, which is rendering them far from useless but is a nice way to support your team. Nothing wrong with this.

And if you get dehorsed by HA in a bad position (far away from the main clash), then that's probably your own fault imo.

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Offline Glyph

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Re: OP Horse Archers
« Reply #204 on: June 29, 2011, 06:37:06 pm »
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Ok at least is a bit to much. But if you can get leed's horse down, your team stands a way better chance of winning. I mean, you guys get my point.
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Glyph you have obsessive Horse Archer and Horse hatred.
- Official diagnosis :)

Offline Lactose_the_intolerant

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Re: OP Horse Archers
« Reply #205 on: June 29, 2011, 07:21:04 pm »
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i dunno about you guys, but I'v noticed an increase in HA (some sucky, some annoying(good))!

mmm i feel like making an alt myself...

Offline Overdriven

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Re: OP Horse Archers
« Reply #206 on: June 29, 2011, 07:38:44 pm »
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i dunno about you guys, but I'v noticed an increase in HA (some sucky, some annoying(good))!

mmm i feel like making an alt myself...

There has been a very recent slight increase. Mentioned it myself previously. Most of them suck worse than me though.


Late EDIT:
Ok at least is a bit to much. But if you can get leed's horse down, your team stands a way better chance of winning. I mean, you guys get my point.
I'll add this now. Forgot to do it way earlier :P

If Leed is on the server...then every damn archer on the opposite team should be aiming for that horse. Including HA. Such players attract that kind of attention. If I know a player by armour ect and I know they are good. They automatically become my target for that map. I don't think you should punish people  for recognising that a player is damn good and a threat :lol:

O and yes...I have been planning a tastey stew to put you in Berethorn  :P
« Last Edit: June 30, 2011, 12:21:10 am by Overdriven »

Offline Roran Hawkins

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Re: OP Horse Archers
« Reply #207 on: July 07, 2011, 06:07:19 pm »
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Ive tried my hand at HA lately, and found out that HA are only effective at lvl 30 and higher, they suck on lower levels. Mine is lvl 24 now, and can't hit a horse when I'm on trotting speed.


Most "OP" HA are very good players (aka Jackie) who have masterwok bows, arrows and horses. Any infantryuy with the same amount if skill and masterwork stuff in their class would be "OP" aswell, but hey don't stand out, since melee is more common in cRPG, thus there are made less whine-topics/ nerf-topics about them, if not none at all (no insults intended)



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Re: OP Horse Archers
« Reply #208 on: July 07, 2011, 06:11:18 pm »
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Ive tried my hand at HA lately, and found out that HA are only effective at lvl 30 and higher, they suck on lower levels. Mine is lvl 24 now, and can't hit a horse when I'm on trotting speed.


Most "OP" HA are very good players (aka Jackie) who have masterwok bows, arrows and horses. Any infantryuy with the same amount if skill and masterwork stuff in their class would be "OP" aswell, but hey don't stand out, since melee is more common in cRPG, thus there are made less whine-topics/ nerf-topics about them, if not none at all (no insults intended)
I think HA's are fine, they are more annoying to my horse than to my health. And I agree 100%, they dont get good untill they finish their build.
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Re: OP Horse Archers
« Reply #209 on: July 07, 2011, 07:22:24 pm »
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Well, I have a lvl 26 HA alt and it sucks hard. I'm guessing it gets a bit better on 30.