Athletics?

[Canary]

Massive oversimplification. I use athletics all the time in combat movement both to get kills and avoid death.

I know this, it is vastly satisfying to move behind someone and attack them at an angle they literally can not block. I used the word "basically" for a reason, I guess I'm saying. As for avoiding death, though, it kind of falls under the "run away from melee players" portion of what I said.

Caution: Massive rant ahead.

My gripe with athletics comes from the fact that it's not only very insubstantial, especially compared against strength, the only other attribute, which gives a very clearly defined bonus which applies regardless of your playstyle or skill level (where athletics, for example, can only truly be taken advantage of if you know what you're doing and practice using it) but also very inconsistent. There are so many things that limit the use of athletics and penalize proficiency, when strength, power strike, and ironflesh are always applied and always giving the same bonus no matter what. Does rain reduce hit points? No, it reduces runspeed (and ranged damage/shot speed, but that's another matter). Do hills mean you deal less damage? No, they make it so that you can't run fast. Indoors in a castle? WELL YOU BETTER SLOW DOWN AND LOOK AT THE SCENERY BECAUSE YOU'RE REDUCED TO SOME BASE MOVEMENT SPEED THAT CAN'T BE MODIFIED. Wearing some armor? Well, everyone gets hurt by this, but your proficiency is lowered! So much for all those extra weapon master points, you're now equal to someone else who spent their points maybe on a strength skill. Meanwhile that person puts their points in ironflesh and just gets this awesome synergy with the same armor.

Okay then. So what? A modifier to damage and one hit point versus the benefit of less than a quarter of an athletics point and nothing else. Are strength and agility really worth the same points value, currently? Do the skills tied to them really equal each other out? (For cavalry and hybrids, perhaps)

I dunno what could be done about it, or if anything should be done, but I do feel there's a relative imbalance between the two stats one can put points into.

[bilwit]

It depends on preference/personal fighting style. I feel like being able to maneuver and dodge an attack is more useful than a block in certain situations. I also like to be fast enough to choose my fights more easily. I can see how athletics could be less useful to shielders, but I find it pretty essential as a 2-hander, especially against multiple opponents.

[Osiris]

Full str build is ok but even with my 21-18 polearm guy has 6 ath and full str guys cant touch me. i can move in and out of range and 7PS and a mighty great long axe i usually 1-2 hit most people anyway.
with my shielder who was 15-21 before retirement 7 shield skill can take a pounding on a heavy norman and i could run to the side or behind you after you swing and spam you in the face

[Cyclopsided]

Full str build is ok but even with my 21-18 polearm guy has 6 ath and full str guys cant touch me. i can move in and out of range and 7PS and a mighty great long axe i usually 1-2 hit most people anyway.
with my shielder who was 15-21 before retirement 7 shield skill can take a pounding on a heavy norman and i could run to the side or behind you after you swing and spam you in the face

You clearly don't play on NA. Strength builds don't have to and most don't use short weapons. They typically use long weapons and you are very much going to be in their range with a GLA. Your little step-in step-out means nothing because if they have any sense of timing they'll eat you for breakfast. You won't 1-2 hit them either, 2-6 [depending on build/armor] would be correct. Remember, they don't have to follow your girly backpeddling, and they won't. They'll insult you as you backpeddle and walk to the next enemy until you come back to fight.

And yes, shielders are good to have agility on! The mobility and shield resilience is great!
However, Have fun whiffing on mid-tier medium lordly armor & gauntlets. I have an 18-18 6 PS balanced character and the glances are retarded. And it is a balanced build!

[Tears of Destiny]

You clearly don't play on NA. Strength builds don't have to and most don't use short weapons. They typically use long weapons and you are very much going to be in their range with a GLA. Your little step-in step-out means nothing because if they have any sense of timing they'll eat you for breakfast. You won't 1-2 hit them either, 2-6 [depending on build/armor] would be correct. Remember, they don't have to follow your girly backpeddling, and they won't. They'll insult you as you backpeddle and walk to the next enemy until you come back to fight.

And yes, shielders are good to have agility on! The mobility and shield resilience is great!
However, Have fun whiffing on mid-tier medium lordly armor & gauntlets. I have an 18-18 6 PS balanced character and the glances are retarded. And it is a balanced build!

Irritatingly enough all this is true. To my disgust, 93 hp plus my transitional armour and wisby means when I am having a lazy day I can still refuse to block and just watch everything glance against most low/normal str users, especially if I start turning with blows. And honestly, I have never been outreached as I am not stupid enough to carry a short weapon with that character as my main weapon. Besides, play siege and a character like mine loves the chaos of those cramped quarters, so facing agil opponents is not a concern there.

[Osiris]

hmm im pretty sure you wont take many hits from a mighty GLA with a decent PS unless ofc NA has many more skilled players who can avoid it or you all have 3x loomed plate


"You clearly don't play on NA. Strength builds don't have to and most don't use short weapons. They typically use long weapons and you are very much going to be in their range with a GLA. Your little step-in step-out means nothing because if they have any sense of timing they'll eat you for breakfast."

last time i went to NA i didnt notice that everyone is a leet player compared to the avg eu guy, i would say it was pretty much the same

[Tears of Destiny]

We are assuming equal skill. The average user can step in step out as well as th average user can avoid it, or the average elite player can step in step out as well as the average elite player can avoid it.

It kind of goes without saying that if you are playing against a lesser skilled player, you will dominate...

[Osiris]

true but i dont see EU being dominated by 80% full str builds so something is different

[cmp]

true but i dont see EU being dominated by 80% full str builds so something is different

NAs play on macs

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

[Tears of Destiny]

NAs play on macs

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Ahahahahahaah I do I do play on a mac! 

+1 good sir, very well done!

[Tristan]

Well to be more elaborate than CMP... does no one on the NA server ever consider blocking?

[Tears of Destiny]

Well to be more elaborate than CMP... does no one on the NA server ever consider blocking?

On the battle server? Assuredly so!
On the siege server? About 15% bother to do it more then a few times... Maybe 40% on a good day...

[Tomas]

I've always found the reasoning behind hit points going up with strength a bit sketchy at best and I certainly can't fathom how a skill can increase hit points.

Surely being able to wear heavier armour without penalty should be the main bonus for high strength characters?

Whether changing this would completely ruin the balance of the game is another matter.  Just thought i'd mention it as a potential solution for those that do feel strength is overpowered compared to agility.  I haven't played enough extreme character builds to judge for myself

[Rumblood]

I've always found the reasoning behind hit points going up with strength a bit sketchy at best and I certainly can't fathom how a skill can increase hit points.

Surely being able to wear heavier armour without penalty should be the main bonus for high strength characters?

Whether changing this would completely ruin the balance of the game is another matter.  Just thought i'd mention it as a potential solution for those that do feel strength is overpowered compared to agility.  I haven't played enough extreme character builds to judge for myself

I tend to agree with this statement. I'm thinking HP for strength should be removed and +1 or +2 added to IF.

[Casimir]

Well when i had fully heirloomed Milanese plate, greaves mittens and reinforced helm and a 24:12 build i could easily get out maneuvered by players wearing average armour and if using the poleaxe only rarely 1hit people.

Not that ive got 6 athletics its much easier for me to position myself and get a kill, whether this is a difference between 4 and 6 athletics or between polearm infantry and 2h i do not know, either way, this 2h is much more user friendly in my experience.

I guess maybe its because i play EU where agi builds seem to do better i don't know, although my experience on NA is that all Agi builds would die to crossbowmen before they could fight a str build guys...