we're back at CounterStrike medieval.

[ShinySpoons]

On NA there's lots of good 2h/polearm users who rack up massive amount  of kills. If I can't beat them in a straight up fight I can turn to cav or ranged. Many NA maps are not cav friendly, so you're back to getting owned in melee. I like winning though, so whats left is ranged.

As well, all the urban /ruins maps in NA encourage people to split up meaning a good duelist is more likely to fight without being ganged/shot at. Which encourages the above to happen more.

So as destiny and korea has said, map selection in NA is a major cause of the amount of ranged.

[hotcobbler]

Solution: Make all weapons do zero damage and instead of blood put in glitter! YAY!

[Tears of Destiny]

(click to show/hide)

I changed my mind from my original post: archers are evil, cowardly, and a problem (other projectile weapons do not exist--there is no xbow, and there's no such thing as throwing--so they're not a problem). So problematic is their presence, that I propose we nerf them. Let's make them slower, that way they can't run away from me--it's ridiculous that I cannot easily chase them down when wearing full plate, I mean, they're practically naked, and no person could possibly run faster than a trot when so unencumbered. Let the developers place large lead blocks upon the nipples of all archers, it'll work.

I also think that bows shoot too quickly, I mean historically an archer could only fire one arrow per hour (I know this because I'm historically inclined). It would be in the mods interest to conform to history, since history was very much balanced. The rest of this paragraph would normally be taken up by entirely unrelated, pointless historical inaccuracies which in no way pertain to the present arguement. Example: european knights fought with fish and wore slippers. And so, we need a nerf, because of history.

Anyway, I'd like to end this paragraph by stating that I'm not biased in any way against archers. I have an archer alt, which means I can bitch and complain about that particular class to my hearts content (regardless of the contentness of others' hearts). I certainly don't play as a melee player who does not use a shield of any sort, otherwise I'd be biased. Can't have that.

Another thread winner, +1

[Gurnisson]

Sarcasm at a new level

Made my day! + 1 for you, good sir knight!

[PhantomZero]

So...
Everyone should just play a 1h/shielder?  Good to know.

Way to miss the point completely, if everyone was 1h/shielder, they would get run over by horses, or destroyed by 2h crushthrough or axe weapons.

[MrShine]

There are two things that make archers hated:

1) Non-ranged hate being hit by ranged
2) Archers run from melee more than throwers or xbowmen. 

1 isn't going to change; you can do whatever you want to archery and people will still bitch and moan about being shot by ranged when they run in predictable straight lines without shield support or cover.   I get the whole 'critical mass' archery thing can be annoying, but as they say variety is the spice of life.  Take Tunatown weekends (melee only) for example; I enjoy it every now and then but the more you play the more it feels like you're just mashing two sides together in a big pointy orgy in the center of some random map time after time.  There doesn't seem to be the same type of tactics/strategy involved, something that cav & ranged of all kinds really enhance in my opinion.

2 is mostly slot change aftermath.  Without the ability to have a decent melee weapon archers will naturally forgo melee altogether in exchange for more elusive builds. Last archer gen I had 8 athletics but only 2 powerstrike.  I'd pull out some melee upsets every now and then with my spiked mace but without armor hp or any real hitting power you better believe I did more running than I normally enjoy; at the very least I had to pick my battles to smaller 1v1 2v1 type scenarios where I might at least have some sort of chance if I played my cards right.

Really though it is in the archer's best interest to kite melee most of the time and instead focus on ranged.  Hate ranged all you like, but complaining that archers avoid melee is like complaining that a tincan wears heavy armor... well duh of course they're going to use the advantages their class provides.

[Malaclypse]

Your play style is feminin

One of my many characters. I suppose that means that my 24/15 two-hander is feminine as well. Also my 21/18 polearm. Or that you are ignorant, and would prefer everyone play within a narrowly defined set of classes which you personally enjoy, never playing anything you do not.

[Adam_Bomb]

I changed my mind from my original post: archers are evil, cowardly, and a problem (other projectile weapons do not exist--there is no xbow, and there's no such thing as throwing--so they're not a problem). So problematic is their presence, that I propose we nerf them. Let's make them slower, that way they can't run away from me--it's ridiculous that I cannot easily chase them down when wearing full plate, I mean, they're practically naked, and no person could possibly run faster than a trot when so unencumbered. Let the developers place large lead blocks upon the nipples of all archers, it'll work.

I also think that bows shoot too quickly, I mean historically an archer could only fire one arrow per hour (I know this because I'm historically inclined). It would be in the mods interest to conform to history, since history was very much balanced. The rest of this paragraph would normally be taken up by entirely unrelated, pointless historical inaccuracies which in no way pertain to the present arguement. Example: european knights fought with fish and wore slippers. And so, we need a nerf, because of history.

Anyway, I'd like to end this paragraph by stating that I'm not biased in any way against archers. I have an archer alt, which means I can bitch and complain about that particular class to my hearts content (regardless of the contentness of others' hearts). I certainly don't play as a melee player who does not use a shield of any sort, otherwise I'd be biased. Can't have that.

Love it! lol

[Kafein]

It's funny to see no archer ever complains about melee. And most melees (including shield users) keep wanting it to be nerfed.

The only possible conclusion is that it is all perfectly balanced, that all archers are wise grown-ups and all melees are ragey teenagers.

Ad hominem in all it's splendor.

[Manabalu]

It's funny to see no archer ever complains about melee. And most melees (including shield users) keep wanting it to be nerfed.

The only possible conclusion is that it is all perfectly balanced, that all archers are wise grown-ups and all melees are ragey teenagers.

Ad hominem in all it's splendor.

They do not have to fear melee, so they don't whine. 
Take a look in the xbow threads 

[Tzar]

One of my many characters. I suppose that means that my 24/15 two-hander is feminine as well. Also my 21/18 polearm. Or that you are ignorant, and would prefer everyone play within a narrowly defined set of classes which you personally enjoy, never playing anything you do not.

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[SchokoSchaf]

It's funny to see no archer ever complains about melee. And most melees (including shield users) keep wanting it to be nerfed.

The only possible conclusion is that it is all perfectly balanced, that all archers are wise grown-ups and all melees are ragey teenagers.

Ad hominem in all it's splendor.

You not noticing them, doesn't mean they're not complaining. Every now and then, a new thread about how bows were historical much stronger and blablabla pops up, but I guess mostly from new players who aren't taken seriously in general. And seasoned archers mostly know their ways in shooting as well as melee and don't care for changes. Archers seem to lack the group between beginners and pros and those people are those who whine most of the time. Haven't seen much of the known heros whine about how strong/weak somethings is.

[Tzar]

Shouldn't this be in the balance discussion forum  :

[Adam_Bomb]

Shouldn't this be in the balance discussion forum  :

Agreed, although if there were a "big crybaby" discussion forum it should go there.

When archers start topping the scoreboards, this might be a more relevant topic.

[Tzar]

Agree archery is fine as it is.. lets move this to the whine forum