Save the Horses Suggestion Thread :'(

[Gurnisson]

Courser 25000, Arabian Warhorse 45000

First I was like

Then I was like

If you think that price difference is deserved, then I can honestly say that this is not your field of expertise.

[Bonze]

Horses are fine, they just have a tad to much maneuver. If you cant do well on a horse, then you should rethink your class 

Inf  running and jumping  around like a  epileptic cartoon figure from the 50s but horsies have to much maneuver.........alrighty!

very strange very  strange 

[Kenji]

After playing cav for a while, from stupidly not maneuvering my horses around to dodge/confuse incoming pikes, arrows, or thrown weapons, to keeping my horse alive about at least half of a round to full round (Or until I'm dead), my thoughts are:

They are actually fine as it is.

My sumpter horse is usually killed with 1 headshot or maximum of 3 ranged shots.

My courser extends up to 2 headshots sometimes or maximum of 4, 5 ranged shots.

My plated charger... Well, took about 20 arrows in its behind, 1/4 of its hp reduced. (Those long bow headshots still hurt)

Their repair costs? (Approximate)

250 for sumpter, 1000 for courser, 3300 for plated charger.

And my plated charger was damaged and repaired about 4 times now... I'm in debt, it's now stubborn and I can't ride it

I.... might have some disagreement with the prices... but they are fine as they are.

[EponiCo]

EponiCo, don't exaggerate so much. The times you throw out for a 90 degree turn being 3 seconds 
I have never suggested anyone be stupid enough to charge straight through a large group of pole arms as a lone cav. Who the fuck would do that? That is a terrible example, you'd have to be a hell of a gambler to do that. Regardless of whether it worked or not [it often times works though...].

And my suggestion is not some huge nerf to light cav. They'd actually be able to take a hit and be useful as cav.
My suggestion isn't a nerf or a buff, it is more role defining.

I'm not exaggerating really with some of the suggestions that have been thrown out. I might count a little too fast in my tests, though.
Also, yes, the light horses would still be useful in a different role, but the less maneuverable heavy horses (which take that role currently and either better or worse depending on how you'd change), possibly including the courser whose speed would be useless if you can't control it, would be hit far harder and screwed.
Chaos sums it up pretty well, you simply need some maneuver for all horse tactics except backstabbing. The heavy horses are already very disadvantage vs. footmen in the effect player input has on offense and defense (bad turning, no sidestepping, completely predictable attacks, bad blocking), you have to predict a lot and start maneuvering before something happens. That's how the engine is coded, and I don't think taking away player input even more and letting the horse take extra damage and deal extra damage without need to attack is good balance for an action game.

[Glyph]

less manouver and more health, charge and armor. and make the armored horses more attractive(cheaper repairs)!!!

[Konrax]

Lancing should be much harder on horseback.

[Kafein]

hah, yeah im cav player, im in horse only clan, i got horse in signature and i actually like horses in general

sure i troll a bit here and there sometimes, but thats because you guys cannot be taken seriously, i used to voice my opinion in those threads as i got some experience with it not because i want to make it easier for myself, i dont talk about balance of 2h, 1h, archers etc as i have very little if any experience in those fields

your hatred for this class is well known, not one time you have greeted us with insults, so ask yourself but be honest with it, who's here really biased ?

You are obviously loving horses more than I do currently. But I played those from the very beginning of my "career" in cRPG, back then it was an extremely rare class. I farmed gold for one week or something just for a palfrey x) I nearly exclusively played 1h/pole cav until very recently, and I always appreciated horses in the game, either enemies or allies.

But with the January patch all went completly wrong, yet I only realise it now. The riding skill requirements were changed from per 6 agi to per 3 agi and horse requirements upped by one, effectively increasing the overall maneuver and speed by a great margin. The upkeep hit horses really bad, and especially 1h cav. I abandoned my destrier to take a rouncey. My weapon costed more than a heavy lance and I needed a better armor for the greater risk (1h really are short compared to lances, afterall). Then with the more recent patch lances became unsheathable. At first it looked like a nerf to lancers. Well it wasn't really since "lancers" don't change weapons before they are dehorsed anyway. Instead I got hit by that one even tougher, I had to drop my lance to exclusively use my sword, even in cav vs cav, logically reducing my chances of survival against a lancer to 5% or less.


So now maybe you understand why I'm so pissed about these petty attemps of lancers to troll ANY sensible suggestions about cav. If you brought any argument, maybe we could discuss like adults, but it's not the case. Now you'll probably post a "deal with it" image or something similar, and that would prove your unwillingness to discuss. Please report to me any insult directed at you I wrote, I would be pleased to apologize for them.

Actually, "dealing with it" is exactly what I'm doing, creating a lancer alt. I still think it would be better if cav was reworked.

[Seawied]

Lancing should be much harder on horseback.

agreed. Its probably the easiest aspect of the game right now. No need to manual block, no need to lead an arrow, no need to worry about attack direction... and to top it all off, its one of the most damaging attacks in the game.

[Chagan_Arslan]

You are obviously loving horses more than I do currently. But I played those from the very beginning of my "career" in cRPG, back then it was an extremely rare class. I farmed gold for one week or something just for a palfrey x) I nearly exclusively played 1h/pole cav until very recently, and I always appreciated horses in the game, either enemies or allies.

But with the January patch all went completly wrong, yet I only realise it now. The riding skill requirements were changed from per 6 agi to per 3 agi and horse requirements upped by one, effectively increasing the overall maneuver and speed by a great margin. The upkeep hit horses really bad, and especially 1h cav. I abandoned my destrier to take a rouncey. My weapon costed more than a heavy lance and I needed a better armor for the greater risk (1h really are short compared to lances, afterall). Then with the more recent patch lances became unsheathable. At first it looked like a nerf to lancers. Well it wasn't really since "lancers" don't change weapons before they are dehorsed anyway. Instead I got hit by that one even tougher, I had to drop my lance to exclusively use my sword, even in cav vs cav, logically reducing my chances of survival against a lancer to 5% or less.


So now maybe you understand why I'm so pissed about these petty attemps of lancers to troll ANY sensible suggestions about cav. If you brought any argument, maybe we could discuss like adults, but it's not the case. Now you'll probably post a "deal with it" image or something similar, and that would prove your unwillingness to discuss. Please report to me any insult directed at you I wrote, I would be pleased to apologize for them.

Actually, "dealing with it" is exactly what I'm doing, creating a lancer alt. I still think it would be better if cav was reworked.

dont you remember all the whine on how cav had to put only 3 points to ride best horses ? with the increase of riding req came -2speed -2man nerf and a charge damage nerf to all horses (because back than all the inf thought its the only way cav can make kills)

so i cannot agree with you on that cav got buff to their speed or maneuver

pre january patch all cav were riding heavy (except for Tommyyy who was riding sarranid as i remember) and basicly just killing inf by dozens, back than 1h was better than lance, you could have kill lots of more people with it

but after that patch with new xp system the dynamics on battle field changed and pole lancing took the crown, 1h are still just as effective as lancers when it comes to killing inf that dont look around, and can take lancers also with a proper maneuvering and a shield

Lancing should be much harder on horseback.

harder ? in cav vs cav when a lancer makes mistake he dies, cant get harder than that, when it comes to killing inf, everything from a horseback will always be easy when it comes to this, at least when they dont look around and run in an unorganized mob

and did you tried lancing on one of the many village maps we have right now everywhere ? its not THAT easy cmon

[Kafein]

dont you remember all the whine on how cav had to put only 3 points to ride best horses ? with the increase of riding req came -2speed -2man nerf and a charge damage nerf to all horses (because back than all the inf thought its the only way cav can make kills)

so i cannot agree with you on that cav got buff to their speed or maneuver

pre january patch all cav were riding heavy (except for Tommyyy who was riding sarranid as i remember) and basicly just killing inf by dozens, back than 1h was better than lance, you could have kill lots of more people with it

but after that patch with new xp system the dynamics on battle field changed and pole lancing took the crown, 1h are still just as effective as lancers when it comes to killing inf that dont look around, and can take lancers also with a proper maneuvering and a shield

harder ? in cav vs cav when a lancer makes mistake he dies, cant get harder than that, when it comes to killing inf, everything from a horseback will always be easy when it comes to this, at least when they dont look around and run in an unorganized mob

and did you tried lancing on one of the many village maps we have right now everywhere ? its not THAT easy cmon

I seems to me the overall speed and maneuvrability increased because 2 or 3 riding points give a greater bonus than a few speed and maneuver points. But we don't know what the riding skill actually does so I can't have any proof of that.

The patch didn't changed "the dynamics of the battlefield", well it simply nerfed 1h cav more than any other class. Lancers already were a good choice and logically became the clearly best cavalry build.

With a lance, if people are looking around, you can still attack them. Even if they block you never risk your live doing it. With 1h cav even 1h footman are potentially dangerous. It can become an equivalent, but only with unsustainable equipment, which is silly anyway.

My point is, I don't see a single advantage of 1h cav over lance cav. Harder in cav vs cav, harder to kill infantry, more upkeep, and finally, a mandatory shield skill investment or you are totally gimped on foot, which isn't the case for polearms.

[Casimir]

agreed. Its probably the easiest aspect of the game right now. No need to manual block, no need to lead an arrow, no need to worry about attack direction... and to top it all off, its one of the most damaging attacks in the game.

requires much better timing than almost all infantry play styles, furthermore down block against a lancers and theres not much he can do, granted, cav can very easily rack up kills, so could anyone that is that mobile but still can do damage, peoples inability to watch their backs and cavalry players willingness to charge into melee when others are distracted is what gets them kills

cavalry is meant to be powerful, horses are meant to make you more mobile and do more damage, thats why they were used.

[Torben]

i dont get it.  dude,  1h cav has a revival since last patch.  didnt see so many 1h cav,  and doing good aswell,  since uglybastards times

[Seawied]

requires much better timing than almost all infantry play styles, furthermore down block against a lancers and theres not much he can do, granted, cav can very easily rack up kills, so could anyone that is that mobile but still can do damage, peoples inability to watch their backs and cavalry players willingness to charge into melee when others are distracted is what gets them kills

I could not disagree more.

The timing is flat out simple. On top of this, a slow heavy-lance stays out forever. Infantry on the other hand have to have lighting fast reflexes to get manual blocking down. A cavalry has to just allow enough space to travel during the 1.5 to 2 seconds your lance will be extended during. Half the time if you miss your primary target, you can catch an unwitting archer behind them.

Every other class has much more difficult timing than a cavalry. Archers have to adjust for arrow drop, rain, and leading distance. Throwers have this problem more-so. Spearmen have to time their lance or wind up as a kabob. Shielders have to drop their shield immediately after an attack in order to counter attack. 2h and polearm have to manual block.

If an opponent uses downblock? Couch them. Unless they are using a spear, if you guide your lance right you still have a strong chance of out reaching even most 2hers.


Cavalry is the easiest class to pick up and also has a much lower skill ceiling than other classes.

[Glyph]

it's bullshit that you have to have super reflexes to block a lance, yes you are right that you have to have super reflexes when you notice the horse when it's 3 m away from you, but if you can only notice a horse coming at that distance you have to check your eyes and ears, because otherwise, it's f*cking bullshit.

archers don't need timing, they need time to aim, that's something else. and that just takes practice.

and every infantrie can either avoid or kill cav easily. if it's a village map, than you can avoid the incoming cav, and if it's an open map, you should stick with your team, and in a team there are always pikers or hoplites.

and don't bring couching into this disscusion, because it sucks, yes it does a lot of damage, but you can jump past it, it's slow, and unless you have a great lance, you don't have a lot of length to couch and so hit your opponent.

and maybe cav is the easiest class to pick but to be good at it, mate isn't (just like every other class

[Vibe]

ITT a load of people who are jelly because cav players get many kills.
You guys should know by now that the game is not about e-peening about your k/d.