Save the Horses Suggestion Thread :'(

[Dezilagel]

If you can't avoid allies you are doing something wrong as cavalry. If so; You are making poor decisions, and that has absolutely nothing to do with maneuver. I very rarely bump team infantry when I am cavalry. I am considerate, as I have played mostly infantry and it sucks to be bumped by your teammates.
They Might roll dice if they run into their hard-counter supposed-to-kill-horses only-thing-a-horseman-worries-about.
That sounds like an issue. You shouldn't be rounding blind corners at full speed on a horse either. That is the only scenario you won't see a pikeman in time to evade it. Pikeman are defensive counters, they can't GO kill you -- you have to go TO them. You have to willingly choose to die to a pike as cav, whether that be you gambling by turning corners at full speed, or charging straight at one thinking you are invincible.

I'm sorry, if you fucked up that bad you should be impaled on that pike if you don't rear your horse in time.


Yeah. You can be full speed and stop your horse by rearing it in this game. Sorry if any of you have been crutching on maneuver so hard you've never had to do it even once.
pretty sure default it is ctrl+J.

Listen to this man.

[Elerion]

Cavalry is definitely in a good spot for public play right now. Cav tops K/D almost every round on any non-city map. On those maps, the winner is usually decided by which team gets Cav superiority first. As a polearm cav/infantry hybrid, there's no doubt that I'm far deadlier on a horse than without one.

The real question is what will happen when Strategus gets up and we get more organized clan battles. Cavalry is much weaker against organized infantry, so we will have to see if the current implementation remains viable in more organized settings.

[Torben]

I suggest you stop the trolling... We all know you are completly biaised and will cry a river if you loose your champion Chaparral 2J, no need to prove it even further.

Kafein howzabout u dont judge quite so fast,  aslan was quoting me on a flash movie and not the subject of the thread

[Wookimonsta]

the low maneuverability sounds good, the only problem i have is that the acceleration is also dependant on maneuverability i think

[Kafein]

Kafein howzabout u dont judge quite so fast,  aslan was quoting me on a flash movie and not the subject of the thread

That's exactly why I said you two should stop trolling... Was that movie useful ? No.

[Chaos]

If you can't avoid allies you are doing something wrong as cavalry. If so; You are making poor decisions, and that has absolutely nothing to do with maneuver. I very rarely bump team infantry when I am cavalry. I am considerate, as I have played mostly infantry and it sucks to be bumped by your teammates.
They Might roll dice if they run into their hard-counter supposed-to-kill-horses only-thing-a-horseman-worries-about.
That sounds like an issue. You shouldn't be rounding blind corners at full speed on a horse either. That is the only scenario you won't see a pikeman in time to evade it. Pikeman are defensive counters, they can't GO kill you -- you have to go TO them. You have to willingly choose to die to a pike as cav, whether that be you gambling by turning corners at full speed, or charging straight at one thinking you are invincible.

I'm sorry, if you fucked up that bad you should be impaled on that pike if you don't rear your horse in time.


Yeah. You can be full speed and stop your horse by rearing it in this game. Sorry if any of you have been crutching on maneuver so hard you've never had to do it even once.
pretty sure default it is ctrl+J.

I also try my hardest to avoid teamhitting, even if it means my horse has to stop in front of a group of enemy infantrymen thirsting for horse blood and +1 kill. That is unless my team has been rolled so badly that I have lost all respect for them, but even then I try not to screw over any teammates (ie trampling them in front of a group of enemy infantry).

I'm quite happy with the long spear and pike counters for cavalry. If you try to turn a building corner on a courser at reduced speed, chances are that the pikeman is going to have far too much time to thrust his pointy stick, effectively stopping or killing your horse whether you try to turn around or not. I find that its actually more effective to blindly turn the corner at full speed and pray that no pointy sticks are on the other side as I barrel through whoever gets in my way and maybe thrust once or twice with my heavy lance depending on the size of the group. But then again I hear there are more urban type maps on NA whereas EU experiences a lot of open plains maps.

Long spears and pikes are far from being the only things that cav have to worry about.


And I love the control+j stop, but its hardly ever more useful than manually turning around, even on a courser. Stopping generally means death for melee cav, especially if ranged is around (but thank god archers and xbows aren't too popular anymore, right?  )

[EponiCo]

If you can't avoid allies you are doing something wrong as cavalry. If so; You are making poor decisions, and that has absolutely nothing to do with maneuver. I very rarely bump team infantry when I am cavalry. I am considerate, as I have played mostly infantry and it sucks to be bumped by your teammates.
They Might roll dice if they run into their hard-counter supposed-to-kill-horses only-thing-a-horseman-worries-about.
That sounds like an issue. You shouldn't be rounding blind corners at full speed on a horse either. That is the only scenario you won't see a pikeman in time to evade it. Pikeman are defensive counters, they can't GO kill you -- you have to go TO them. You have to willingly choose to die to a pike as cav, whether that be you gambling by turning corners at full speed, or charging straight at one thinking you are invincible.

I'm sorry, if you fucked up that bad you should be impaled on that pike if you don't rear your horse in time.


Yeah. You can be full speed and stop your horse by rearing it in this game. Sorry if any of you have been crutching on maneuver so hard you've never had to do it even once.
pretty sure default it is ctrl+J.

Strawman much?
And yeah, that crtl-J stop (lol, what about the realistic cav role?) is great to avoid being stopped. Oh wait. So now you are stopped and need 4 seconds to get back at speed again, great way to get killed by any archer who is competent enough to make a headshot or two on a stationary target. Great way to get killed when charging into a group (as per your suggestion) and having enemies to all sides of you.
Ok, let's just keep it at that - how exactly do you charge a group with polearms in when you need 3 seconds for a 90° turn and 4 seconds to speed up/slow down? Bonus question, how many maps are out there where you have even enough room for those maneuvers before running into bad terrain?
As to teambumps, I'm talking about reality. They happen. I do them myself occassionally, I also see other horsemen do them. Nerfing maneuver a lot and upping charge will not make them any better.

[Kafein]

Strawman much?
And yeah, that crtl-J stop (lol, what about the realistic cav role?) is great to avoid being stopped. Oh wait. So now you are stopped and need 4 seconds to get back at speed again, great way to get killed by any archer who is competent enough to make a headshot or two on a stationary target. Great way to get killed when charging into a group (as per your suggestion) and having enemies to all sides of you.
Ok, let's just keep it at that - how exactly do you charge a group with polearms in when you need 3 seconds for a 90° turn and 4 seconds to speed up/slow down? Bonus question, how many maps are out there where you have even enough room for those maneuvers before running into bad terrain?
As to teambumps, I'm talking about reality. They happen. I do them myself occassionally, I also see other horsemen do them. Nerfing maneuver a lot and upping charge will not make them any better.

Buffing charge as realistically as maneuver is nerfed would usually mean death for the bumped guy in light armor (btw I think it should be a little less effective for balance). This potentially allows cavalry to rape undefended groups straight on and kill multiple enemies with one charge. Also, correct hp and armor values would mean more survivability to archers.

Maybe there still can be place for light cav, but for more diversity heavy cav should exist too (just like heavy inf and light inf).

[Chagan_Arslan]

I suggest you stop the trolling... We all know you are completly biaised and will cry a river if you loose your champion Chaparral 2J, no need to prove it even further.

hah, yeah im cav player, im in horse only clan, i got horse in signature and i actually like horses in general

sure i troll a bit here and there sometimes, but thats because you guys cannot be taken seriously, i used to voice my opinion in those threads as i got some experience with it not because i want to make it easier for myself, i dont talk about balance of 2h, 1h, archers etc as i have very little if any experience in those fields

your hatred for this class is well known, not one time you have greeted us with insults, so ask yourself but be honest with it, who's here really biased ?

[Cyclopsided]

EponiCo, don't exaggerate so much. The times you throw out for a 90 degree turn being 3 seconds 
I have never suggested anyone be stupid enough to charge straight through a large group of pole arms as a lone cav. Who the fuck would do that? That is a terrible example, you'd have to be a hell of a gambler to do that. Regardless of whether it worked or not [it often times works though...].

And my suggestion is not some huge nerf to light cav. They'd actually be able to take a hit and be useful as cav.
My suggestion isn't a nerf or a buff, it is more role defining.

[HarunYahya]

5) Stop whining.

[The_Bloody_Nine]

I say: "make a suggestion"!

[Camaris]

It often was suggested to define horse roles.

Gimp Horses: Sumpter 5000 , Rouncey 7500

Armored/Charge Horses -> Warhorse 10000 , Large Warhorse 15000 , Cataphract 20000 , Charger 25000, Mamluke Horse 35000 , Plated Charger 45000

Fast/manouverable horses -> Plafrey 10000 , Steppe Horse 15000 , Desert Horse 20000 , Courser 25000 , Destrier 35000 , Arabian Warhorse 45000

Balance the horses with that stats. Warhorse would be a  crappy armored one like palfrey would be a really crappy fast one.
Sumpter and Rouncey would be newbiehorses.
Stats would increas in armored hp and charge in the first group speed and maneouver in second group with higher tiers.

[Soldier_of_God]

Buffing charge as realistically as maneuver is nerfed would usually mean death for the bumped guy in light armor (btw I think it should be a little less effective for balance). This potentially allows cavalry to rape undefended groups straight on and kill multiple enemies with one charge. Also, correct hp and armor values would mean more survivability to archers.

Maybe there still can be place for light cav, but for more diversity heavy cav should exist too (just like heavy inf and light inf).

I like marathon's suggestion as it makes alot of sense, much like having high charge damage would make 1h/2h with 35+ armor scared to just rush up to a horseman at full gallop.

here is the deal; the balance is off because on an average game, a single horseman should be able to take out 1h and 2h infantry without being dehorsed in 2 hits.  if you use a warhorse, which is radically expensive, its about 4, although you are going considerably slower than if you used a palfrey.

this is why cavalry is out of balance; horses are just too easy to kill to justify paying 1k-2k per break, and if i boldly charge in like the good arch duke i should be, i end up getting stopped from full gallop after i ram 2 people, hardly doing any damage.

btw, i use the courser and the large war horse.

[Chaos]

Melee infantry don't give a damn about charge damage. People riding plated chargers or other warhorses with low-high maneuver get loljumpslashed and dodged quite often. Restricting horses to a single vector (making turning and acceleration/deceleration unreliable as a tactic via nerfing maeuver) would pretty much kill their usefulness. I've tried lancing ingame on a courser at top speed while barely touching the A or D keys. I missed the lance when my target jumped clear out of my way.

Infantry are already able to thwart and kill lancers', if maneuver was taken away from the already low maneuver horses then they would become useless. If maneuvers were nerfed all around, then I imagine the currently high maneuver horses would get somewhere around 43 maneuver, 43 speed, 20 charge damage, and  100 health. Congratulations, the nerfed arabian warhorse becomes an overpriced version of the current palfrey, and that's the horse lancers would use.

And if you think frontal cav charges will ever or should ever work against a wary team, then you're asking for too much.