Possible change to armor handling: increase damage reduce, decrease soak effect.

[Paul]

Haha, did kronic just tell me to learn how to play?

[Kafein]

I had the feeling with my numberous alts that powerstrike is too important. I find myself stacking it even with 0 melee wpf "pure" ranged builds. It's just so important to be able to interrupt someone in melee.
0 wpf is ok because the influence on damage is low and the speed loss can be compensated with personal skill. 0 PS is.. a challenge because one has to charge up every hit against a tin can and hope for a decent dice roll.

 I don't like the luck factor. It's ok for me if I need 8, 10 or 15 hits as long as I don't bounce of with hit number 7 on perfect range and sweetspot position just because of a high armor roll.
For Baldrider: The bad sweetspot glances will still happen. The penalty here is very big and still reduces the damage below the glance treshold. Good positioning and decent hit angles are still needed to overcome soak.

It might sound a little dumb, but 0 PT will also make you basically useless as a thrower, 0 ath dooms you when things don't go right, 0 wm will turn your first weapon into worse than a secondary for an hybrid and 0 shield for a shielder is meh. PS doesn't really deserve a nerf IMO.

I think we should do a general buff to heavy armor somehow (maybe something completly different than this, like decreasing the price), and a nerf to agility. Decreasing the soak factor might favor agility builds even more than what they are currently.

[Paul]

Wait, agility builds are considered as being overpowered at the moment?

[Tears of Destiny]

Wait, agility builds are considered as being overpowered at the moment?

The scoreboards and majority of the vocal player-base opinion say otherwise.

[BaldRider]

The scoreboards and majority of the vocal player-base opinion say otherwise.

The internet and sarcasm

[zagibu]

I had the feeling with my numberous alts that powerstrike is too important. I find myself stacking it even with 0 melee wpf "pure" ranged builds. It's just so important to be able to interrupt someone in melee.
0 wpf is ok because the influence on damage is low and the speed loss can be compensated with personal skill. 0 PS is.. a challenge because one has to charge up every hit against a tin can and hope for a decent dice roll.

 I don't like the luck factor. It's ok for me if I need 8, 10 or 15 hits as long as I don't bounce of with hit number 7 on perfect range and sweetspot position just because of a high armor roll.
For Baldrider: The bad sweetspot glances will still happen. The penalty here is very big and still reduces the damage below the glance treshold. Good positioning and decent hit angles are still needed to overcome soak.

So you really want to nerf armor because you, as an archer, bounce a lot on tincans? This might sound a bit harsh, but such a statement makes me question your position on the dev team.

[Cyclopsided]

The scoreboards and majority of the vocal player-base opinion say otherwise.

Yep.
Pure strength or mostly strength melee builds are the best at dueling, battle, and especially siege of all the characters.
I have to say 30-9 or the more extreme 36-3 are hands down the most effective duel & melee builds in game. It isn't like you can be spammed even with that little agi, you can't be outfootworked even with 1 ath either. Unless you are 1 ath full black armor like some idiot.
Balanced builds are nice and decent, but agi stackers are easy one hit kills. Agi builds I must say are the absolute worse since they gain nothing and glance alot and still take at the least 5 hits to kill me in light/medium armor if they don't.

I'm all for this armor change. I'll still be doing strength builds for dueling, this will hardly change how ridiculously good strength builds are. It will bring some balance to agi though, and I'm all for more characters being viable.

I've been playing around with instant level 30s all past 2 weeks, and I have gotten my highest KDR on 36-3 with both 2h or pole arm, both are close in effectiveness. Average match was at lowest 5 to 1 K-D, closer to 8-1.
I made a strength onehander that used a torch. I went 11-0 one map with a torch.  With a regular onehanded word? Oh my god ridiculous. I think using the torch I averaged 4-1 K/D.

I can't do that good on a super serious hoplite even. Using a hoplite perfectly I can't even come close to a strength build jokingly using a torch in effectiveness.

[Tears of Destiny]

Yep.
Pure strength or mostly strength melee builds are the best at dueling, battle, and especially siege of all the characters.
I have to say 30-9 or the more extreme 36-3 are hands down the most effective duel & melee builds in game. It isn't like you can be spammed even with that little agi, you can't be outfootworked even with 1 ath either. Unless you are 1 ath full black armor like some idiot.
Balanced builds are nice and decent, but agi stackers are easy one hit kills. Agi builds I must say are the absolute worse since they gain nothing and glance alot and still take at the least 5 hits to kill me in light/medium armor if they don't.

I'm all for this armor change. I'll still be doing strength builds for dueling, this will hardly change how ridiculously good strength builds are. It will bring some balance to agi though, and I'm all for more characters being viable.

I've been playing around with instant level 30s all past 2 weeks, and I have gotten my highest KDR on 36-3 with both 2h or pole arm, both are close in effectiveness. Average match was at lowest 5 to 1 K-D, closer to 8-1.
I made a strength onehander that used a torch. I went 11-0 one map with a torch, and with a regular onehanded word? Oh my god ridiculous. I think using the torch I averaged 4-1 K/D.

I can't do that good on a super serious hoplite even.

Sad but true, my character I posted waay back a few months ago does work rather well on siege, 36-3, 12 PS and 11IF. Uses a 98 speed 2 hander and honestly as long as I keep my cool I can hold my own when timing correctly. I still get floored with feinting but that is more a statement of my player skills.

EDIT: I do think if I did a 30-9 build it would have been better though... Higher wpf would allow me a larger window of opportunity for return swings.

[Cyclopsided]

I edited that post while you were replying if you would like to edit your quote.

[Tears of Destiny]

I edited that post while you were replying if you would like to edit your quote.

Done and done. 

[Cyclopsided]

I don't want to derail the topic, but 30-9 with: 10 PS, 7 IF, 3 ath, 3 WM; is way to good. Try it tears. You get 130 WPF so you aren't slow at all and can even get away with heavy armor.

[DrKronic]

I don't want to derail the topic, but 30-9 with: 10 PS, 7 IF, 3 ath, 3 WM; is way to good. Try it tears. You get 130 WPF so you aren't slow at all and can even get away with heavy armor.

that's the heart of the problem, or near it, because a 36 3 guy will end up with over 115 wpp in one weapon class(my level 27 polearmALT has 33 str 3 agi and still gets 113 polearm wpf @ 1 wm, so at level 30 I guess he'll be like 116ish?

thats what kills agi being important, invest nothing in agi stat, you get nearly 120 wpp(which combined with any fast weapon from any class and you are actually faster than a higher wpp guy with a slow weapon!

*walt's research proved that*

Added to the fact that wpp barely makes a real increase in your swing speed, especially when you're splitting proverbial dick hairs between a Level 30 character w/12 PS @ 119 WPP vs say a Level 30 w/6 PS @ 155ish ( I mean 48% percent more damage bonus combined with the fact 40 wpp doesn't make a hell of difference once you factor in weapon/armor choice of the two guys

my 11 PS with a shortened spear in a peasant robe can be the deadliest guy on the server, that alt ought to be the slowest swing in the land if character creation was fixed

1 WM, fine but at level 30 you should be maxed at 30-50 WPP per weapon class like in single player campaign(where WM limits your max wpp you can have in any one weapon class)

[zagibu]

Hmmm, maybe the WM limit like Kronic explained combined with an IF buff would balance things out? If you only do the limit, STR builds will become completely unviable.

[Bobthehero]

Fuck no, armor is already sucky enough as it is, dont give even more reason to not use armor.
I personally enjoy using heavy armor but if I were to try and play in the most efficient way I would throw the armor away without thinking and now you want to make it even worst? Thats bullshit.

[EponiCo]

Why do you say armor becomes useless?
Against weak attacks armor will be worse, against strong attacks armor will be better.