Possible change to armor handling: increase damage reduce, decrease soak effect.

[King Shaka Zulu]

METAL SKIN BAD

[Bobthehero]

It already is pretty much useless.

[Tzar]

Why do you say armor becomes useless?
Against weak attacks armor will be worse, against strong attacks armor will be better.

This make no sense....

But i guess archers and agi stacker's/spammers will be pleased...

Atleast if you implement this fail idea atleast reduce the upkeep of High tier armors since they will be obsolete after your change anyone and their mother will switch to AGI builds so strong attacks wont mean shit...

Again why change something that all ready works with something that clearly just buff AGI builds and Archers+?

The way it is now if you go with and AGI build you trade DMG for speed with your idea you gain both by goin with AGI build....

Dont come here and say that with just 120 wpf your able to beat Phyrex cicero and plenty of other guys with fast weapons and wpf thats bullshit they eat any str build for breakfast 

Go to the duel server and then comeback and say that pure str builds can take on everything cause thats utter bullshit lmao 

The current game each class/build has its role

Archers = support/kill stealers

Xbows = support/1shooters

2h/pole str build = support/with slow but high dmg attacks

2h/pole agi build = duel/rambo

Cav = Vultures of the battlefield killing anyone splitted from the group that doesnt carry a 245/300 meter length pike

1h = support/rambo

HA = support

Its a nice balance dont ruin it... becauese some people are too lasy to learn to block and counter attack a slow ass giant with low wpf and high dmg...

PS why make the survey when you clearly dont listen to it...  :

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,5439.0.html

[Matey]

if you wanna know whats better between agi and str... consider that a 36/3 build is not only viable, but very dangerous... whereas a 3/36 build is comic relief only.

[Rhaelys]

As a heavy armor (68 body) polearm-spamming strength build (currently 25/15 at 31) I voted to slightly decrease soak and increase reduce, even though it would be a direct nerf to my playstyle. Glances are too easy to cause, especially with minimum footwork. Power Strike is absolutely essential to even stand a chance in melee, rather than being just a solid skill to invest in.

It may be worth considering increasing reduce by a larger relative margin than decreasing soak. From what I have briefly gathered, people are fearing the return of 15/24 agi-spam melee builds with the proposed soak nerf. While it is true that strength builds in melee currently reign supreme on the battlefield, increasing reduce by a larger margin than decreasing soak would help stabilize the balance of strength versus agility builds.

Agility builds might have little trouble landing quick, solid hits that do not glance, but they should sacrifice their killing power by needing to land more hits than a strength build.

To achieve that, it may be worth considering increasing the difficulty requirements of armor across the board. Thus, the strength builds would get the heavy armor that would not necessarily spell the death of opponents with low Power Strike or low damage weapons, but would instead afford consistent, increased survivability.

[Casimir]

your far more likely to see a higher agility balanced build raping aload of your team than a strength guy simply because he cant get his hits down as fast oor position himself as easily.


Seems like a nerf to Armour, which isnt really needed from my experiences, wiffs come normally because of your own mistake. playing as a pikeman, timing is everything and if i mess up my thrust im exposed and 9 times out of 10 dead.

If these values are changed it should result in either a buff to the values given to higher tier armours or a reduction in their cost, to make the tank build more viable in game.

[Banok]

yeah Ive wanted bounce to be removed for a long time so +1

I didn't understand the last bit about the problem with changed interupt threshold to 0.

but ideally even a lvl 1 peasant with a wooden stick should be able to kill a lvl 30 in plate, it might have to take him 100 blows but now its impossible because of the bounce you just get spammed.

right now high agility builds are pretty useless, even if bounce removed, outside of duel server high str builds will still be vastly superior.

[Bobthehero]

Thats bull banok, unless the armor gets a buff back, be it more armor or less wpf hit.

[Banok]

whats the problem? pauls suggestion isn't a direct nerf to armour although I use heavy armour it could probably do with a nerf we want to see more varied play styles.

[Bobthehero]

Its varied enough, it does not need a nerf at all.

[Casimir]

Bouncing is one of my favourite features. Keeps stupid spammers in their place, else high agi 1hs would rule the world. And who wants that?

[Banok]

I don't want to derail the topic, but 30-9 with: 10 PS, 7 IF, 3 ath, 3 WM; is way to good. Try it tears. You get 130 WPF so you aren't slow at all and can even get away with heavy armor.

(click to show/hide)

that's the heart of the problem, or near it, because a 36 3 guy will end up with over 115 wpp in one weapon class(my level 27 polearmALT has 33 str 3 agi and still gets 113 polearm wpf @ 1 wm, so at level 30 I guess he'll be like 116ish?

thats what kills agi being important, invest nothing in agi stat, you get nearly 120 wpp(which combined with any fast weapon from any class and you are actually faster than a higher wpp guy with a slow weapon!

*walt's research proved that*

Added to the fact that wpp barely makes a real increase in your swing speed, especially when you're splitting proverbial dick hairs between a Level 30 character w/12 PS @ 119 WPP vs say a Level 30 w/6 PS @ 155ish ( I mean 48% percent more damage bonus combined with the fact 40 wpp doesn't make a hell of difference once you factor in weapon/armor choice of the two guys

my 11 PS with a shortened spear in a peasant robe can be the deadliest guy on the server, that alt ought to be the slowest swing in the land if character creation was fixed

1 WM, fine but at level 30 you should be maxed at 30-50 WPP per weapon class like in single player campaign(where WM limits your max wpp you can have in any one weapon class)

thats why I made this most excellent suggestion, which when originally voiced on irc all the guys agreed with but when I posted here it got ignored and down voted cause most posters are stupid and don't like change.

I'm making chars with 0 wm. Marathon your build would be better with 0 wm you would lose only 10 wpf but gain 3 points in iron flesh!

[Tzar]

Bouncing is one of my favourite features. Keeps stupid spammers in their place, else high agi 1hs would rule the world. And who wants that?

Paul

Cant wait to be instagibbed by kinggrimm when he facehug me and spam me to death...

[Cyclopsided]

thats why I made this most excellent suggestion, which when originally voiced on irc all the guys agreed with but when I posted here it got ignored and down voted cause most posters are stupid and don't like change.

I'm making chars with 0 wm. Marathon your build would be better with 0 wm you would lose only 10 wpf but gain 3 points in iron flesh!

The difference of 111 wpf and 130 is what armor you can get away with. with 0 Wm you can't wear full plate, you'll be molasses. Unless you are wallace who does that exact thing, but he chambers when he attacks.
With 130 WPF you can wear plate and not be spammed.
36-3 has no WM and is best from light or medium to mid-high armor.


back on topic.
What is with people thinking this is a nerf to armor? You are getting increased damage reduction, at the cost of stupid randomness. Honestly, this is better for both armor wearers and the attackers, since skill matters more. If you out footwork them, you'll make them glance due to reduced damage and not a random generator. Bad sweetspot and distance control will matter more, and stupid random glances will matter less.
Bob, this would help you particularly since you are a really good player.
Besides, Paul did not say he was removing soak or anything. He was just toying with the idea of lessening it but increasing reduction.

[Gnjus]

Your resistance is futile, on next patch we're all getting Kinngrimmed.