Official Item Survey Result Data & More (OISRDM)

[Bulzur]

Hum.... i was a 1h/archer when i voted, but i know play (with my main, after retiring), a 2h/archer (since i stupidly put 4 PD and 53 wpf in archery, even though all the rest is for 2h (123 wpf, 6PS). So, what class do you use for the vote, the one we have now, or you can somewhat remember what we were playing when we voted ?

[Kafein]

Detection magic pseudo code:

Code: [Select]

wp_one_handed >= 50 AND power_strike > 0 THEN '1h'
shield >= 3 THEN 'shield'
wp_two_handed >= 50 AND power_strike > 0 THEN '2h'
wp_polearm >= 50 AND power_strike > 0 THEN 'pole'
wp_archery >= 50 AND power_draw > 0 THEN 'archer'
wp_crossbow >= 50 THEN 'xbow'
wp_throwing >= 50 AND power_throw > 0 THEN 'throwing'
riding >= 3 THEN 'cav'
horse_archery >= 1 THEN 'ha'


So someone with 53 archery wpf and PD4 is considered as an archer.

I don't know when the data about mains was saved.

[EponiCo]

I'm listed as pure thrower as far as I can see, so the classes are quite recent.

[Osiris]

heh i voted buff armour and 1h while i was a pole guy i set my main to 1h/shield to use it in strat but its still not really my main char i look biased yay

[Banok]

pretty sure I voted unselfishly too wheres my reward?

plus this whole thing is RETARDED anyway since I rarely even play my current "main" character. if it counted what weapons your account overall uses most over time then maybe you could make proper assumptions.

[Espu]

Yes Banok, this is RETARDED and could have been done differently. Thanks.

If you have some real suggestions, make a request. I can make another run with different matching if you provide a sensible pseudo algorithm to calculate your desired data set and convince me that it might be useful.

Current data is matched to yesterday's character data and in general data runs must use current database. Taking into account anything over a longer time is not possible.

One thing that I thought about is class detection based on all player characters, but it turned out that many people had so many alts that a relatively large amount of votes matched all classes. This obviously made the comparison kinda useless.

Also nice job on the results so far Kafein, keep it coming!

[Cris]

If the dev team is up for it, I suggest a better way of looking at items.

Each week have an official thread looking at the mid and high end weapons of each class (e.g All 1H one week) - In this post (Kept troll free hopefully XD) player would test different weapons, post their opinions, post their relevant stats (PS and WPP + test target relavant stats too) and their recomended changes - Nerf/buff a certain stat, leave as it is and even add a new weapons (should someone be willing to make the models - example:  i'd be nice if there were more bows with tradeoff for non PD6 archers)

1h
2H
Polearm
Bow
Trow
Mounted melee*
Mounted ranged**

*For speed bonuses and weapons that are usesless in ground but useful on horse - someone weapons are designed that way so why not have a week for discussing them

**As far as I know, there is not speed bonus added to the ranged attacker - this is something that should be discussed imo, maybe in a different topic anyway

The whole proccess would take up to 7 weeks, assuming this runs for a week each class: Monday to Friday testing and discussion - Saturday and sunday poll for realistic suggestions

The whole post of this proposal is that there are lots of items within each class, 1 or 2 items being really good does not make the class unbalanced. I think it could be a good community project, but a lot of work...

Also, good reasoning will help with the info, its easy to say that someone is wanting to buff themselves because their voted for their class, but they might have a good point because they play that class and know it better than other people)

The reasoning for mid and high end weapons is that due to upkeep and hybrids, a lot of people will use a weapon(s) from that range as their main weapons.


Just suggesting - I thought posting this long and probably completly ignored idea XD is better than just saying "I think this stats are irrelanvant for any real 'class' changes as they cosider classes and not individual items" 

[Cheap_Shot]

Anyone listed as a shielder who voted to nerf throwing should be tarred and feathered. Dear lord, I bet you're the kinds of people who started out pulling wings off flies.

[Kafein]

Also nice job on the results so far Kafein, keep it coming!

I made a little C++ program to get this data. There are plenty of other things I might be able to do with the basic framework. Anyway I uploaded the sources, and also the exe and the text file needed for lazy people :

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=60DSDNIE

The output.txt file in the archive contains all the possible data the current program can fetch.

[Kafein]

The whole post of this proposal is that there are lots of items within each class, 1 or 2 items being really good does not make the class unbalanced. I think it could be a good community project, but a lot of work...

The main problem with balance is that one or two items CAN actually completly ruin the balance of a class.
I think the best way to achieve balance by regular community surveys would be doing a vote each week for one item, picked on a random basis or by dev team choice, or even by voting, asking wether it should be nerfed or buffed. Take polearms for example. I'd like to nerf polearms that can swing, but not those that can only do thrust and overheads.

[BaldRider]

The main problem comes when people who are without the required competetive gaming experience and understanding of Mount & Blade comes around and spits out their opinions in fancy words.
Leave the balancing to players who know the mechanics, been playing the game on a high-end competetive basis and understand the impact of minor changes.
There is no worse way to balance a game than to listen to the cries of the masses.

[Tydeus]

The main problem comes when people who are without the required competetive gaming experience and understanding of Mount & Blade comes around and spits out their opinions in fancy words.
Leave the balancing to players who know the mechanics, been playing the game on a high-end competetive basis and understand the impact of minor changes.
There is no worse way to balance a game than to listen to the cries of the masses.

+1 for this, I was tempted to post something along these lines but then of course, I didn't. Figured I'd get -1 spammed to death for elitism.

[Kafein]

The main problem comes when people who are without the required competetive gaming experience and understanding of Mount & Blade comes around and spits out their opinions in fancy words.
Leave the balancing to players who know the mechanics, been playing the game on a high-end competetive basis and understand the impact of minor changes.
There is no worse way to balance a game than to listen to the cries of the masses.

Well that would probably be better to balance the high tier competition. But there are several flaws :

1° Things that are imba on a given skill level maybe aren't on another and I think this mod ought to be balanced for a skill level a bit higher than what we have on average public servers.
2° There's no easy way to differenciate between biaised and unbiaised players, as well as experienced or not.
3° It might really piss off players. A game is for having fun afterall, and I'm sure no one would like to see it's prefered weapon nerfed because "a bunch of elites" decided it should be that way.
4° People playing on a competitive level have more info to make the good balance decisions, but they also have more intensives to use this power for their own good.

[Gristle]

1h/shield/xbow that wanted to buff throwing and bows and nerf poles here. Can't believe some actually voted to nerf throwing.

By nerf polearms, I mean remove the stun. Somehow. Anyway possible. There's no need for it.

By buff bows, I mean this http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,5743.0.html

[Tydeus]

Well that would probably be better to balance the high tier competition. But there are several flaws :

1° Things that are imba on a given skill level maybe aren't on another and I think this mod ought to be balanced for a skill level a bit higher than what we have on average public servers.
2° There's no easy way to differenciate between biaised and unbiaised players, as well as experienced or not.
3° It might really piss off players. A game is for having fun afterall, and I'm sure no one would like to see it's prefered weapon nerfed because "a bunch of elites" decided it should be that way.
4° People playing on a competitive level have more info to make the good balance decisions, but they also have more intensives to use this power for their own good.

I've been a part of a lot of competitive games and communities, point 4 is never an issue and point 2 is just untrue.

First, for point 2, you can easily just look at a character's gen to see how long they've been playing/how experienced they are. Sure, this doesn't mean the player is good just because they're gen 15+, but it puts them in a much better place to make balance suggestions than someone who is gen 1-3. They've played more, they've seen more, they've interacted with the community more, they've likely thought about items/builds much more simply because they've had to retire more. Second, everyone knows who the "elites" are that that play on their server. Granted pub stompers != competitive players exactly, warband and especially crpg, doesn't have much of a competitive scene so you can't be extremely picky. Finally you can easily see which clans and members participate in warband's tiny competitive scene as well as who enters in tournaments on crpg, as well as how well they do.

Easy in theory, just time consuming. You could of course, just have people who think they're qualified, post in a thread showing their qualifications. Also, extra points for anyone that's an INTJ.