The Ranged Problem.

[Gristle]

please explain to me how it is fair to do this much damage

You said it yourself:

Arbalest: 8 bolts per minute on 184 wpf
Archer:   17 arrows per minute on 121 wpf (yew longbow)

The archer fires more than twice as fast AND can move while reloading which is a major factor outside of a controlled test. Look at your damage examples again, but compare two arrows to one bolt. The arrow wins in the 30, 50, and 70 armor catagories. Your test ignores the defining trait that separates bows and crossbows: speed/mobility versus power.

[Yeldur]

Well, I forgot to include this to my thoughts;

Arbalest should be 4 slots. There are enough decent 0 slots around to pick from, but it would prevent the user from abusing weapons like spathovaklion and other maces in general, elite scimitar etc. This would give room for maces like german spiral a chance to actually be used in the field. Also all crossbow weights should increase, meaning that playstyle of "when get caught my any melee just run until you can reload" will be less efficient, forcing the crossbowman to either hide real good, or stick with his teammates. As he should.
Bear in mind that this suggestion is the part2 of the first one I made, meaning cutting melee and running capabilities of the arbalest is also supported with higher damage and one shot capabilities.

As much as I hate those cunts who use the spamovaklion with arbalests I disagree, like Cassi said they're supposed to be a siege defense weapon, their reload time should reflect that. An increase in their reload time would balance it out imo.

[Thryn]

You said it yourself:

The archer fires more than twice as fast AND can move while reloading which is a major factor outside of a controlled test. Look at your damage examples again, but compare two arrows to one bolt. The arrow wins in the 30, 50, and 70 armor catagories. Your test ignores the defining trait that separates bows and crossbows: speed/mobility versus power.

let's use the 70 armor for example.

Arbalest: ~272 damage per minute
Strength Longbowman: ~323 damage per minute

according to dpm, you are correct. longbows have an advantage over crossbows due to fire rate. to compensate, crossbows do more damage per shot. this is the fundamental difference between archers and crossbows, and i'm not interested in discussing this aspect of the game atm.

what i'm fundamentally concerned with is that in order to be an archer that does damage according to the OP, you must:

-achieve 30 strength and 10 powerdraw
-sacrifice melee capabilities
-dump wpf into archery
-use 3 slots for yew longbow and 1 set of bodkin arrows

*keep in mind that this is a 30 strength archer, many players do not play archer with this build - more balanced builds do not deliver damage that is as comparable to an arbalest as this.

to use an arbalest effectively, you must:

-have 16 strength
-have 3 open slots
-dump wpf into crossbow

for this investment, you can readily deal half health damaging shots to players in ~70 armor.

i hope this helps emphasize the disparity in skill point distribution between archers and crossbowmen.

edit: changed powerstrike to powerdraw

[Gristle]

Yes, I've felt for a while that archers were hit too hard with the nerf bat. They used to be something to fear. Anyone with a bow just seems sad now. I don't know why they bother. Personally, I don't want to see crossbows, or any weapon, put in such a pitiful position.

[Beleg]

This is why I have no faith in public votes. Those 27 people who said archery should be nerfed are clueless, they don't give a shit about balance, they just voted so because they don't like getting shot at (duh!).

I'm a 21-21 built archer with +3 longbow and bodkins, 7 pd. I can barely do any damage. I can't even one shot other archers with a hs. I love playing with a rusbow or horn bow but they're useless. Imagine being a 2hander and your only viable option is great maul or sth.

[Lord_Carlos]

Bolt do more damage than an arrow. Thats a fact and it should be so

[Gandalf77]

Bolt do more damage than an arrow. Thats a fact and it should be so

its not fucking realistic game as I said on discord couple of times. It should be balanced, for now xbows does to big dmg, reload fast because you can put tons of points into wpf. Crossbomen are so fast that they can easily dodge incoming cav and 1 shoot them. Arbalest +3 1 hit people with 30 armor when they are moving towards bolt, it couldnt kill a fucking peasant 1 year ago with 1 bolt, today it kills medium armored guys easily... and so many stupid cunts who use that op shit keep saying "its fine its fine" because thats only way they can get a kill in this game, stfu. Nerf that shit.

[njames89]

Damn look at you lot bustin' out the calculators. Love it!

[Asheram]

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Gandalf must never have played native if he thinks xbows reload fast here.

[Gandalf77]

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Gandalf must never have played native if he thinks xbows reload fast here.

https://clips.twitch.tv/PleasantCoyWatermelonFreakinStinkin
https://youtu.be/k8Eq2gVWlMg?t=19m

no ofc I havent
there is more of that

[Asheram]

The gif was for James and whoever was breaking out the calculators.

[Gravoth_iii]

Ranged kills and armor alone doesnt save you? I guess youre out of options, nerf it 

Also poll is botched, where are the buff options?

[Thryn]

This is why I have no faith in public votes. Those 27 people who said archery should be nerfed are clueless, they don't give a shit about balance, they just voted so because they don't like getting shot at (duh!).

I'm a 21-21 built archer with +3 longbow and bodkins, 7 pd. I can barely do any damage. I can't even one shot other archers with a hs. I love playing with a rusbow or horn bow but they're useless. Imagine being a 2hander and your only viable option is great maul or sth.

at the same token there are going to going to be people who are going to be against a nerf even if, at the current state, that class is overpowered. i could expand on the poll and make it less cancerous, but eh, i think if i changed it now i'd get less votes. if i had made it simply "does crossbow need changed or no" you would've seen a massive call for change (meaning one side wouldve been unbalanced by people voting nerf because they hate ranged).

regarding archery, i think the most logical thing to do is buff balanced builds and tune down longbowman. if archers got buffed hard, we'd see those strength longbowman dishing out ungodly damage.

[njames89]

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[Asheram]

Make xbows do less damage but reload as fast as native.