Rules update, guidelines for admins

[Westwood]

This sort of normalization of slurs makes NA 1 look like a private server for Stormfront, and God forbid they'd think the same.

I'm not trying to complain or anything but that's some real hyperbole there my dude. I've seen various rabid conspiracy theory posts on this forum that are much more reminiscent of Stormfront than wanton slurring on NA1.

[Horns]

The logs are pretty gross still. I could go out of my way to look at logs and auto-ban people who abuse it regularly. From yesterday alone bicep is my primary candidate. Over 75% of all 'friend(s)' said were by him. Of course once muting can be persist beyond log out then log in is when this problem can be addressed appropriately. Bicep will basically be the god king of that feature.

[Thryn]

Also: cRPG chat isn't protected legally by the US Constitution, so if you want to practice civil disobedience by spamming racial epithets in chat, you can expect a ban. My personal opinion is that you should be able to type whatever the hell you want considering there is a mute button, but people who have names that are offensive should be forced to change them. Free chat, but restrict names is my ideal compromise.

Is it so controversial that I just don't want people calling eachother friends in chat?

I guess not if you are one of those guys who puts the word "friend" on a pedestal over all other slurs.

I'm honestly curious why you think it's something impossible that cannot be accomplished.

In regards to the mod, it's not impossible. You can go full chocolate chip cookie and check logs and ban anyone who says the word. At the end of the campaign of chat purification, only those who hold the same beliefs as you (i.e. "friend" on a pedestal over all other slurs) will remain playing the dead mod. To be fair however, most people (except bicep) will just not say it for fear of being banned, so your rule will succeed. I still reserve the right to call badmins hypocrites. >>As this was being typed, Horns looked through the logs for offenders LOL

It's not about creating a safe zone, it's about creating an enviroment that's not toxic.

I suppose that an environment that is not toxic due to admin regulation isn't considered a safe zone. This is the internet. You won't ever create a place that isn't toxic, and the majority of toxic comments that are spewed out on NA1 aren't serious.

So for every mini-essay or wall of text arguing 'muh freedom of speech' or whatever it is people are trying to make this about, merely add "therefore I should be able to spam 'friend' in chat" to the end of their post.

this is how freedom of speech works heskey :slow clap:

[GOBBLINKINGREATLEADER]

Personally, I've just about never called anyone that in a way meaning harm as far as I can recall... and only very, very rarely as a friendly insult. I pride myself upon being more creative than that. friend is low hanging fruit, with too much real world baggage. However, I defend the right of shitbags to say it.

[Thryn]

However, I defend the right of shitbags to say it.

the filthy yuropoors will never understand the glorious feelings provided by muh freedom of spech

seriously though, this shit only came up as soon as people started getting banned for it, it's not because some underlying racist sentiment has been stirred up. it's b/c the internet is full of trolls.

[Dionysus]

I'm not trying to complain or anything but that's some real hyperbole there my dude. I've seen various rabid conspiracy theory posts on this forum that are much more reminiscent of Stormfront than wanton slurring on NA1.

I don't think that's hyperbole at all. Poe's law is in full swing here, and I don't want this rhetoric to attract players who think this behavior is acceptable, or to repel players who rightfully think it's disgusting.

As someone who has been playing this mod for five years, I have seen a massive shift in the culture of this community. Some of the people here defending this bullshit are the same people who brought it here. We had some quirky and crude clans before, but it wasn't until this year that I saw a bunch of players dressed as klansmen riding horses.

This has always been a problem in the community, but people were swiftly muted and banned for it before. Hell, my clan almost got blanket-banned for a stupid banner put up when we changed our theme to the Teutonic Knights.

[Bittersteel]

but it wasn't until this year that I saw a bunch of players dressed as klansmen riding horses.

lmao, yea sry dood thats funny as fuck

[Thryn]

lmao, yea sry dood thats funny as fuck

they were just spooky ghosts who hated raccoons

[Westwood]

I don't think that's hyperbole at all. Poe's law is in full swing here, and I don't want this rhetoric to attract players who think this behavior is acceptable, or to repel players who rightfully think it's disgusting.

As someone who has been playing this mod for five years, I have seen a massive shift in the culture of this community. Some of the people here defending this bullshit are the same people who brought it here. We had some quirky and crude clans before, but it wasn't until this year that I saw a bunch of players dressed as klansmen riding horses.

This has always been a problem in the community, but people were swiftly muted and banned for it before. Hell, my clan almost got blanket-banned for a stupid banner put up when we changed our theme to the Teutonic Knights.

The "spooky ghost" gag was dark humor and undoubtedly distasteful, but none of those people are going to lynch anyone. People goofing around in ways like that is indicative of newer generations' overall irreverence for near everything, not the infiltration of cRPG by Stormfront members.

I don't think that's Stormfront-esque behavior anyway though. Rather than random slur abusing, they're really more about paranoia, eugenics and other pseudoscience, imagined heritage, pagan superstition and conspiracy theorizing, as I said. You can see plenty of that stuff in General Off Topic and "Historical Discussion" (lol) usually from Europeans that are seriously fucked in the head, talking about Jewish cabals and 9/11 and opium fields and all kinds of other trash. Kesh was also a 9/11 truther if I recall correctly, thought we went to Vietnam for oil or something gay like that.

And people like that are really everywhere in the world, much more so than racists, and that's infinitely more concerning to me. If you're truly worried about the influence of Stormfront and other conspiracy mills in cRPG perhaps you should be more concerned about those poor misguided people in the Off Topic section than a handful of trolls.

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I am not saying people shouldn't get banned or muted for breaking chat rules, I'm just trying to have a polite conversation about Stormfront

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I don't think racism is ok yo

Edit: Additionally, I'd like to say that I am also less concerned, in terms of the health of the mod, about unwholesome roleplaying than I am the potentiality that certain people can use friends to mute and ban whomever they please for arbitrary reasons.

[Dionysus]

I think you're getting way too caught up in the use of Stormfront. My point is that I don't want assholes like them to think they're in good company in this community. If you had told me years ago that the cRPG community would have a thread debating whether we can call each other "friends" on the server, I would have thought you were fucking crazy. But because it doesn't bother the white suburban teeny boppers that dominate the servers now, it's no longer a matter of basic decency, but an assault on "free speech." I can't believe this thread has had any more a reaction than, "Oh, right. That's a terrible word with hundreds of years of baggage, I probably shouldn't say it jokingly on a public server."

[Bronto]

I wish I could say I can't believe this is still being discussed, but then again, almost every post I'm reminded what this community has devolved into...

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Why is anyone trying to use their superior intellect to overturn a rule that's been in place since the mod started?

[Westwood]

I think you're getting way too caught up in the use of Stormfront.

That's why I thought it was hyperbole.

But because it doesn't bother the white suburban teeny boppers that dominate the servers now, it's no longer a matter of basic decency, but an assault on "free speech."

Yeah it really isn't. Whatever powers that be in cRPG can make and enforce whatever rules they want.

[Thryn]

an assault on "free speech."

well sorry to say that's what it is

im not worried about my rights, after all this game was dreamt up by some nerd in austria, so i'm subject to whatever rules the devs uphold, and i've said this multiple times
but when someone says shit like "free speech doesn't include hate speech," the full greaseburger american inside of me wakes up to go and shitpost

now don't get me wrong, im not defending the shitheads who think the word friend is the funniest thing since SMOOTHRICH HEAD ADMIN 2014

im just saying that the slurs rule has been a massive gray area for literally years, and every single player is under admins who administer the rule in whatever subjective ass manner they please (considering some admins do not give a fuck and others jerk off to banning people)

considering we have had some real trashcan badmins do some real stupid shit, i do not fault myself or the other shitposters here for defending free speech in front of eTyranny

[Dionysus]

Thryn, you fundamentally misunderstand what freedom of speech means. It's the right to exercise your point of view without fear of censorship. If this community truly did not allow freedom of speech, this would be a locked thread, and you would not have any say on the issue. But there are clear limitations to freedom of speech, like libel, slander, and obscenity, and that's exactly what is being banned here.

[Thryn]

This is not just for Algarn, but for anyone who thinks (especially in the US) that "freedom of speech doesn't include being an asshole."

The entire point of this amendment is to protect ALL forms of speech, and that includes derogatory words such as "my old friend got", "friend", etc. No, the Bill of Rights wasn't ratified to protect these specific words so people could be bigoted assholes. It was so that if someone's opinions were that of the minority, they would be free from governmental persecution when expressing those beliefs (e.g. if you were a Chinese Democratic protester in 1989, you would probably want your government to uphold this right). No matter how you may want to try and spin it, the US Constitution's First Amendment protects ALL SPEECH EQUALLY, regardless of whether it is cheerful or hurtful. This is so that the free society of the US can openly critique their government without fear of being silenced.

Yes. That does mean people will say bad words and do it because they have the right to do so. It's a part of life, grow up and deal with it. I would rather have some asshole say rude shit than be legally shot in Tiananmen Square for protesting the evils of communism. Even if hate speech is banned in your country, people will still use it, sorry that you can't escape the evils of this world.

Now, I'm going to guess that your best argument against the 1A and free speech is that "hate speech is NOT free speech and is therefore not protected." Well, if my last few sentences above haven't convinced you, then sadly, I cannot fight your delusion for you.

           Let's say that you believe that video games such as Grand Theft Auto promote violence and sexist ideologies against women considering the game allows you to "objectify" women and additionally kill
           them (google Anita Sarkeesian). Therefore, the people who produced the game are bigoted and are encouraging misogyny because their entertainment platform allows players to partake in such horrendous actions in a joyful,
           rewarding manner. If we consider this video game to be of an artistic nature and the dialogue contained in it a part of speech, we can therefore label the game and its contents as "hate speech." If
           these opinions were vastly favored among the majority and hate speech was not protected, you could expect a ban on the game and legal repercussions on the development team.

I beg the question: who gets to define what is and is not hate speech? Of course well all know the givens. Is GTA hate speech? My point is all of these things are subjective, and if hate speech were not considered part of free speech in general, the tyrannical majority would silence the minority.

Also: cRPG chat isn't protected legally by the US Constitution, so if you want to practice civil disobedience by spamming racial epithets in chat, you can expect a ban. My personal opinion is that you should be able to type whatever the hell you want considering there is a mute button, but people who have names that are offensive should be forced to change them. Free chat, but restrict names is my ideal compromise.

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