Archery Buffs last year

[Grytviken]

http://forum.melee.org/announcements/0-4-4-9/

This patch slipped under the rug last year back when most people already stopped playing. Could we have this patch reverted? Desire was working on the updates when this patch was implemented and played a horse archer main with his friends to try and kill off what was left of the NA pop.

The missile speed, speed damage etc makes it harder to juke arrows and does more damage. This was all around a ridiculous buff to archery.

[Horns_Archive]

Looking at these patch notes I have no idea how any of these numbers influences damage. Why did the old devs have to make it so damn hard to tell damage output?

[Dupre]

I believe I already adjusted most of them. I'll go back and check on it before patching.

[Nightingale]

http://forum.melee.org/announcements/0-4-4-9/

This patch slipped under the rug last year back when most people already stopped playing. Could we have this patch reverted? Desire was working on the updates when this patch was implemented and played a horse archer main with his friends to try and kill off what was left of the NA pop.

The missile speed, speed damage etc makes it harder to juke arrows and does more damage. This was all around a ridiculous buff to archery.

It is hilarious that you are still pissy over the fact that I had a horse archer alternate lmao; I mostly played an armored piker just so you know. My patchwork was deleted when I left. You are talking about Raylin's patch which had nothing to do with me As I was attempting to bring back stats from 2012. The only thing that was slipped under the rug was me reverting Raylin's range patch due to the fact that it was poorly done.

[Nightingale]

Archery doesnt feel horrible right now.

But then again on my tanky 50-Str heavy armor main I was 1-shot by an archer last week for the first time ever. Maybe there is some unexpected damage potential there?

I don't think I missed anything in the revert if anything it's probably due to one of the newer bows not filling a niche correctly and I left their name's slightly different for future reference if anyone came back to fix things after I called it quits. The higher end bows I tried to keep them in line with the previous longbow/rusbow builds.
 but it is hard to toss in so many bows randomly to fill a niche differently than the bows of the past that we have had for so long in comparison.

My advice is to delete the new bows and compensate for looms lost lol.

[njames89]

Archery does seem a tad strong atm. I wear pretty top tier armour and am getting lit up like a christmas tree.

[_Zetan_]

I hate archers but like the deadly force they portray as it should be. It put the element of surprise in a battle instead of just mowing down people on the field. I wished they would remove the nerf on horse archer so they can also enjoy in the carnage. If people hate them so much buy a shield you cheap fucks what do you think would happen if this was a real battle. Oh excuse me, enemy, can you please stop shooting arrows at us so we may have an advantage in killing you? Fucking crying whores and I am not even an archer.

[njames89]

Most of the complaining about HA is because there is one really great horse archer playing right now.

No one seems to think HA is op when I am on my HA alt... 

[Paul]

Looking at these patch notes I have no idea how any of these numbers influences damage. Why did the old devs have to make it so damn hard to tell damage output?

The main stat for damage is "thrust damage". Power draw, archery weapon skill, relative movement speed of shooter and victim, height difference also has an impact. The lower the projectile speed higher the the effect of the last two. We had spreadsheets to calc damage against different armor situations that were actually quite complicated because the Warband mechanics aren't that simple. This shit's ain't easy.

Iirc weapon difficulty sets the maximum power draw(PD) level that increases damage for bows. I think that was bow difficulty + 4 or something. So a low difficulty bow wouldn't gain more damage from higher PD levels. Higher difficulty also reduces precision(bigger reticule) that was counter-acted in Warband with getting higher PD. To weaken this effect which made high PD build the final solution there were custom crpg scripts that made higher PD reduce wpf(archery weapon skill). I think there was some extra horse archery racism script too.

Speed rating is animation speed that means rate of fire and higher accuracy decreases reticule size, so less randomness.

So why couldn't we explain it to you as if you were 5 years old? We simply are too stupid for that.

[Penitent]

Archery seems fine to me.

If you search the newbie help and guides section I have a fantastic write-up on how to deal with archers and avoid becoming another statistic.  Just for noobs like you.

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[Horns_Archive]

The main stat for damage is "thrust damage". Power draw, archery weapon skill, relative movement speed of shooter and victim, height difference also has an impact. The lower the projectile speed higher the the effect of the last two. We had spreadsheets to calc damage against different armor situations that were actually quite complicated because the Warband mechanics aren't that simple. This shit's ain't easy.

Iirc weapon difficulty sets the maximum power draw(PD) level that increases damage for bows. I think that was bow difficulty + 4 or something. So a low difficulty bow wouldn't gain more damage from higher PD levels. Higher difficulty also reduces precision(bigger reticule) that was counter-acted in Warband with getting higher PD. To weaken this effect which made high PD build the final solution there were custom crpg scripts that made higher PD reduce wpf(archery weapon skill). I think there was some extra horse archery racism script too.

Speed rating is animation speed that means rate of fire and higher accuracy decreases reticule size, so less randomness.

So why couldn't we explain it to you as if you were 5 years old? We simply are too stupid for that.

[Grytviken]

Archery doesnt feel horrible right now.

But then again on my tanky 50-Str heavy armour main I was 1-shot by an archer last week for the first time ever. Maybe there is some unexpected damage potential there?

They 1-shot everyone regardless of how much Str or Armor you have.

I hate archers but like the deadly force they portray as it should be. It put the element of surprise in a battle instead of just mowing down people on the field.

I'm actually not surprised at all when I see that half the server pop is Archers and stone throwing racist frenchmans.

It is hilarious that you are still pissy over the fact that I had a horse archer alternate lmao; I mostly played an armored piker just so you know. My patchwork was deleted when I left. You are talking about Raylin's patch which had nothing to do with me As I was attempting to bring back stats from 2012. The only thing that was slipped under the rug was me reverting Raylin's range patch due to the fact that it was poorly done.

Uh you banned half the crpg population for playing a childish prank on you and you call other people pissy? I'm sure you wouldn't have abused the fact that you had the power to modify game stats after your precious admin rights got revoked.. first you say it was Raylin now you say you did change them.... ok

[Asheram]

They 1-shot everyone regardless of how much Str or Armor you have.

lol no they don't good try though.

[Davic]

I can't comment on the state of EU, but on NA archers are definitely an issue right now. I've been playing a lot on my archer, anti-archer, and cav alts since cRPG revived, so I feel like I don't have too much bias for either the pro- or anti-archer side.

One issue is that the most viable archer build at the moment is strength based. Obviously this means archers are hitting very hard with every arrow, but it also benefits them in melee. Not only does getting hit by an archer in melee hurt, but the 1H nudge with high strength sends you flying, giving the archer at least another free shot for a relatively low-skill move (this coming from someone who does this often on his archer alt).

While my anti-archer/thrower build (18/27 shielder) works decently well at dispatching ranged, the compromises I make in order to catch ranged at the cost of strength means that any archer will melee support becomes very difficult to deal with. I think this might be why NA is experiencing more issues than EU, most players who mainly play archer also bannerstack. This means often one team has a few archers with supporting infantry, while the other team is made up mostly of infantry with maybe a sole archer receiving no support. This type of scenario leads to a massacre and makes it very frustrating to play on the non-bannerstack team.

Finally, cav, which should have a role suppressing and quickly taking out archers in some scenarios, are pretty much a free 10 points for any non-blind/deaf archer. In the current state of the game cav is way too fragile, making approaching archers or throwers unfeasible in most scenarios. Unarmored cav can take 2-3 body shots (or 1 horse headshot) from a strength archer before being dismounted.

I am not saying necessarily that archers are overpowered (I think they somewhat are), but, at least in NA, much of the issue has to do with the state of the meta. Everyone wants to play 2H or polearms because that's what's most fun for them. These players don't consider switching to a class that can better handle ranged just to accommodate the threat a few players on the enemy team pose, mainly because those classes aren't very satisfying to play (shielder) or are too weak (cav). What these players do instead is get frustrated and leave the server.

[Asheram]

The biggest problem I see is the auto balancer, it will put all cav or most all ranged on the same team. Instead of balancing classes on each team it balances it player wise so you wind up fighting multiple archers on high ground triangulating you.
I've been on a team with no cav switched to cav to help team and it put me on the team with all the cav.